Will History Repeat Itself?

[moycon]

Sales go up and down. I dont think there will be a crash

Video game are a more popular pass time than movies these days.

Edited April 22, 2009 by moycon

[cimerians]

Yup, add to that portable systems, browser and cell phone gaming.

[atarian63]

Probably it seems pretty saturated like back in the 80's with lots of shovelware.

 

I wish on old school climbers and shooters

 

Seems like arcades at least independent ones are mostly gone and have moved into peoples homes. That's what I do and many my age are starting to do. Not unusual to see 5-10 machines in a basement bar or the like. Also in more rural areas there seems to be some resurgence. Though without new games that will fade. Someone here said the old arcades were a hangout. That was true. I sure miss that!

There is still Dave & Busters and they advertise so there must be something in it. Also Gameworks and if you really must and have a kid there is Chuck E cheese

[godslabrat]

One thing I don't see mentioned much when discussing the decline in arcades is the fact that fewer and fewer people bother carrying quarters these days. Between inflation and the increasing use of credit cards, there's not much use for spare change, certainly not compared to the world before 1990. Granted, tokens partially solve that problem, but I don't feel like swiping a card or cashing a fiver just to play a 25 cent game (or 50, or $1...)

[Herbarius]

I think a crash like in 1983/84 is unlikely to happen because the games industry has much more "substance" today, the companies behind them have more cash to compensate losses (as you know, we've had a lot of fusions of game publishers lately so there's basically 3 huge ass companies which won't go down so easily). Also the market is more diverse, maybe parts may collapse, genres that die out, but I don't think something like 1983 when the gamers like all at the same time lost their trust in video games completely (to exaggerate a little)...

 

However, maybe "video games as an art form" can get better without "video games as an economy" to crash.

I like to think that the art form "video game" is currently in a regenerative phase anyway! From an economical point of view the video game market was well off all the time, nothing's wrong, everything is fine... However I think most people on these forums know this wasn't true for the artistic part.

 

Why do I think it is regenerating?

 

1. This HUGE movement towards casual gaming. A lot of the simpler game styles have returned, on mobile platforms, as Flash games etc. A lot of people who had nothing to do with games suddenly feel attracted to it - because of simple but innovative games that came out. Of course there's one platform that helped this trend like no other....

 

2. ....the Wii. To be honest: I don't like the Wii. It's not my style of gaming. However, I acknowledge or even respect the Wii, because it is very innovative, its very INTERACTIVE (that's what games is all about) and there are a lot of people that like it if you look at the sales. Because it will propably continue to sell well a year or two at least, it might even outperform the sales of the classic NES and already is on-par with the SNES.

 

3. More diversity. The Wii and the clash towards casual gaming doesn't mean the more complex games die out. But they seem to realize that there are people with different tastes and not every game is for every gamer. Grand Theft Auto 4 is really astonishing. To be honest, like it's the case with the Wii, I don't really like Grand Theft Auto either - this hasn't changed with GTA4, as I would have some fun to play it once or a couple of time, but I don't get the long-term motivation and would never buy it for myself. But like the Wii I have huge respect for that game and think "Yeah, THIS is really an accomplishment." However: While there is not really innovation in the game, because everything that's in it has already been in other games, but it's a really well-rounded, highly polished experience. This is evolution, instead of innovation. And this is also needed: Dune 2 was one of the first PC real-time-strategy games. However Starcraft was really that well-rounded, highly polished package, where everything fits together, in my opinion STILL the current peak of RTS evolution.

 

I'm not really happy with this post, but it already is quite long. I'm sure there is stuff I forgot to mention, I think about that alot lately, but its difficult to transform into written form...

Edited April 22, 2009 by Herbarius

[VectorGamer]

When you say 'history repeating itself' does that mean that some kind soul (with megabucks) will buy ATARI and bring it back into an industry it knew well (hardware NOT software)

 

That would be sweet if the goal of the hardware was to create a large number of arcade ports up to 1984, that are true to the real thing and is backward compatible with the 2600 and 7800 carts. Add to that updating earlier titles from the 2600, 5200 and 7800 library that could use a boost in graphics and enhanced gameplay.

 

I think this would be more suitable for hobbyists like the ones found here on AtariAge. If I had the know-how, this would be something I personally would undertake.

 

I guess this was a pretty much a "duh moment." All you'd have to do is create a small formfactor mobo with USB ports and respective controllers, use flash for disk space, use open source OS and software to run the exact ROMs that were programmed for the games. Wrap this up in an attractive console and done. Legal use of the ROMs is the biggest hurdle.

 

You could probably just do this just like the Flashback system and not even have to do any of the above steps.

 

Now, who the heck would buy this when you can do this yourself? If your computer illiterate, mostly likely you won't have an interest in this stuff anyway.

[carmel_andrews]

rmaerz....the last thing we want is another emulator (albeit hardware based), no-one is going to shell out on just another emulator (yes, flashback and co have sold a few units, but compare that to people using emulators on their pc's/mac's etc)

 

After all, at a physical and technical level, the flashback and it's ilk are essentially hardware emulators (but restricted what you can do with them)

 

There is just as much a market for re released hardware (classic or otherwise) as there is for emulators (after all, if it weren't for emulation, things like software and hardware development on classic systems would be a fraction of what they are now)

[Artlover]

Will there be another Great Video Game crash?

 

Secondly, will there ever be a return to classic game programming e.g. maze games, slide-n-shoots? (Yeah I know, wishful thinking!)

 

Lastly, the return of the arcade, or is it gone the way of the drive-in movie theaters?

 

Yes, but not like before.

 

There already is.

 

No, it's gone.

 

 

I mean, in the 80's, video games literrally dissappeared. I mean, gone, the only places that had them were people blowing them out the door for <$1

Eh? Where did that ever happen. Never happened down here in Florida. I could talk into any Sears, Kmart, PlayWorld, whatever, and they still had the things. Yes, at a discount, trying to sell them off, but they all still had them tho. Still had them when the NES came out too, that's when the prices really bottomed out as retailers were trying to desperatly free up shelf space for the new generation. There was never a lack of availability, but there were a lot of great deals for people to buy into consoles they couldn't afford before.

Edited April 24, 2009 by Artlover

[pacgreg]

I have a strange idea! what if Atari rereleased the 2600,nostalogic people will buy them,they become popular,Nintendo,sega and microsoft will start making their own, then there is another video game crash and everything goes back to normal, The 2600 will have another chance to shine!

[AtticGamer]

Then you wake up!

[ninjarabbit]

I don't think there will be a crash per-se but I do think there will be market corrections. I don't think that having 3 console system will last long term, either Sony or Microsoft will have to give. With both the PS2/X Box and PS3/360 there 's just too much overlap in the games they offer and at some point one of the two companies won't be able to absorb the losses their system are having.

 

We're seeing a classic programming revival with the DS, Wiiware/X Box Live/PSN, iPhones and other cell phones, and flash games on the web. For example there quite a few 80's-like first person dungeon crawlers a la Wizardry on the DS and the rogue-like have also made a comeback on the DS.

 

Finally arcades are pretty much dead except for a few niche areas. We're increasing becoming a cocoon society where everything we need for entertainment is in the comfort of our own homes. Why go out and go to a movie theater and deal with overpriced food, annoying kids, and uncomfortable seats when many cable providers offer some sort of in-demand movie service for example on my HD TV.

[VectorGamer]

I'll be hitting two arcades this summer - the one at Hersheypark and the one on the boardwalk in Ocean City, MD. I'll jot down a list of classic games that may still be in service at the respective arcade. At one time there were at least two arcades on the boardwalk at Ocean City and I don't recall if there is one at the Jolly Roger out there but I will check on our obligatory annual visit for the kids.

 

Also, I will be at the TMG expo soon and I'll grab some photos. There's a classic arcade about ten minutes away that I'm going to visit in between our early morning extravaganza and the Warlords Tournament.

 

I was at City Island in Harrisburg last Saturday night for the USL Div 2 City Islanders game. They have a puny arcade on the island and much to my delight they had at least one classic arcade cabinet. It was one of those that had multiple games in one cabinet.

 

On it was Sinistar (which was the first time I ever played this game and hadn't a clue as to what I was doing), the entire Defender series including Stargate and Robotron:2084, Joust and a few others I have never played (the names were vaguely familiar but not so that I can even remember what they were).

 

Although it was not of the Golden Age, they also had Daytona USA which I had to cough up 8 tokens for my kid to play two games. I was playing Joust at the time so I didn't see how badly he did that prompted him to ask me for all those tokens in a matter of two minutes. Of course, I was not doing so hot myself. It's interesting how much more tough the actual arcade game is compared to their home console counterparts.

 

A few pinball machines, skeeball, one of those rip-off claw games and a few other uninteresting games rounded out one's gaming pleasure.

 

Someone mentioned about the luxury of playing games in their own home versus the crowds at the arcade and the like. I had quite a few tokens to spend on that cabinet until some old fart was looking over my shoulder to play Robotron. I didn't want to Bogart the machine so I in the interest of good sportsmanship I relinquished control. I'll have to spend the rest of my tokens on my next visit to the Island.

 

The Too Many Games expo is less than a week away and I am really excited as it will be my first expo after returning to the fray of classic gaming. I have a grocery list of games compiled to finish up my Colecovision, 7800 and 5200 collections. These are not complete collections, mind you, just a collection of games I enjoy playing. I will post a separate thread in this forum next Monday with pix and what I was able to pick up.

 

Inquiring minds want to know, so the final score of the game was the Islanders 3, Western Mass 1 in front of a decent crowd considering that Mayor Reed refuses to upgrade the complex and regards it as the drunken Uncle in the basement that no one talks about.

[godslabrat]

There is just as much a market for re released hardware (classic or otherwise) as there is for emulators (after all, if it weren't for emulation, things like software and hardware development on classic systems would be a fraction of what they are now)

 

 

I have a strange idea! what if Atari rereleased the 2600,nostalogic people will buy them,they become popular,Nintendo,sega and microsoft will start making their own, then there is another video game crash and everything goes back to normal, The 2600 will have another chance to shine!

 

While I know the answer to my question will be "money", I can't figure out why the powers that be are so reluctant to release "Limited Edition Collectible Xth Anniversary Editons" of the 2600, NES, etc. Like the clone systems, they could be made cheaply thanks to improvements in technology, but unlike the clones, the LE systems would be designed from the original specs, and be just as good as the original.

 

Not only could each system work with the old games, it could come with a mega-multicart of the biggest hits from each console. Say, 15 games. Maybe 20. Bundle the whole thing for like, $99.99. You won't be able to keep them on the shelves. Assuming it's $35 in parts and value the IP of the games at $15 (defining the value of IP is just silly anyway), you're looking at 50% profit.

 

Oh well.

[VectorGamer]

There is just as much a market for re released hardware (classic or otherwise) as there is for emulators (after all, if it weren't for emulation, things like software and hardware development on classic systems would be a fraction of what they are now)

 

 

I have a strange idea! what if Atari rereleased the 2600,nostalogic people will buy them,they become popular,Nintendo,sega and microsoft will start making their own, then there is another video game crash and everything goes back to normal, The 2600 will have another chance to shine!

 

While I know the answer to my question will be "money", I can't figure out why the powers that be are so reluctant to release "Limited Edition Collectible Xth Anniversary Editons" of the 2600, NES, etc. Like the clone systems, they could be made cheaply thanks to improvements in technology, but unlike the clones, the LE systems would be designed from the original specs, and be just as good as the original.

 

Not only could each system work with the old games, it could come with a mega-multicart of the biggest hits from each console. Say, 15 games. Maybe 20. Bundle the whole thing for like, $99.99. You won't be able to keep them on the shelves. Assuming it's $35 in parts and value the IP of the games at $15 (defining the value of IP is just silly anyway), you're looking at 50% profit.

 

Oh well.

 

I think you make a good point - however, I think you would have to come down in price to make it attractive perhaps $35-$50 which may require dumbing down the hardware. I think cash strapped consumers would find this to be a nice alternative to the $300+ for a top of the line system.

[Artlover]

While I know the answer to my question will be "money", I can't figure out why the powers that be are so reluctant to release "Limited Edition Collectible Xth Anniversary Editons" of the 2600, NES, etc. Like the clone systems, they could be made cheaply thanks to improvements in technology, but unlike the clones, the LE systems would be designed from the original specs, and be just as good as the original.

You just contradicted yourself. Cheap clones are cheap because they aren't to original spec.

 

What you'de be talking about here is remanufacturing the old hardware. Anything else is just going to be a non-100% clone/emulation.

 

Not only could each system work with the old games, it could come with a mega-multicart of the biggest hits from each console. Say, 15 games. Maybe 20. Bundle the whole thing for like, $99.99.

Selling them for more then you can currently buy the originals for doesn't sound too promising.

 

Besides, it's not like these classic consoles don't exist anymore outside emulation or cheap clones. No. You can still buy real 2600's, real NES's, heck, even real Pong units. Don't even have to buy them sometimes. People just throw them away and you can pick them out of the trash for free. So I don't see there being a huge market for an expencive clone, as the market is already satisified with cheap originals.

[VectorGamer]

While I know the answer to my question will be "money", I can't figure out why the powers that be are so reluctant to release "Limited Edition Collectible Xth Anniversary Editons" of the 2600, NES, etc. Like the clone systems, they could be made cheaply thanks to improvements in technology, but unlike the clones, the LE systems would be designed from the original specs, and be just as good as the original.

You just contradicted yourself. Cheap clones are cheap because they aren't to original spec.

 

What you'de be talking about here is remanufacturing the old hardware. Anything else is just going to be a non-100% clone/emulation.

 

Not only could each system work with the old games, it could come with a mega-multicart of the biggest hits from each console. Say, 15 games. Maybe 20. Bundle the whole thing for like, $99.99.

Selling them for more then you can currently buy the originals for doesn't sound too promising.

 

Besides, it's not like these classic consoles don't exist anymore outside emulation or cheap clones. No. You can still buy real 2600's, real NES's, heck, even real Pong units. Don't even have to buy them sometimes. People just throw them away and you can pick them out of the trash for free. So I don't see there being a huge market for an expencive clone, as the market is already satisified with cheap originals.

 

This would probably something that would sell on QVC. I remember when they used to sell the PowerJoy which is funny for high profile QVC to be selling pirated material.

[godslabrat]

What you'de be talking about here is remanufacturing the old hardware. Anything else is just going to be a non-100% clone/emulation.

 

I meant systems designed by the original hardware manufacturers, but with revised/simplified designs. Sorry, I should have made that more clear. When the NES came out, it was a $200+ machine. The NES2 sold for $50. It's 15 years after that, isn't it possible we could make an NES3 for $30 wholesale?

[Artlover]

I meant systems designed by the original hardware manufacturers, but with revised/simplified designs. Sorry, I should have made that more clear. When the NES came out, it was a $200+ machine. The NES2 sold for $50. It's 15 years after that, isn't it possible we could make an NES3 for $30 wholesale?

I guess it should be possible. But again, why? You can still buy a real original for less. That's the part I'm having a hard time understanding. Who would the target market be exactly?

[VectorGamer]

I meant systems designed by the original hardware manufacturers, but with revised/simplified designs. Sorry, I should have made that more clear. When the NES came out, it was a $200+ machine. The NES2 sold for $50. It's 15 years after that, isn't it possible we could make an NES3 for $30 wholesale?

I guess it should be possible. But again, why? You can still buy a real original for less. That's the part I'm having a hard time understanding. Who would the target market be exactly?

 

I could see QVC hawking a MAME hardware console, as described in a previous post, that plays all the biggest arcade games of the Golden Age.

 

Most likely target consumers would not be you or I, but impulse buyers, parents that "have no idea (technically)" that want to buy their kids an affordable gaming solution and some that have played these games back in the day that for some reason have no idea how to do this stuff themselves.

[godslabrat]

I meant systems designed by the original hardware manufacturers, but with revised/simplified designs. Sorry, I should have made that more clear. When the NES came out, it was a $200+ machine. The NES2 sold for $50. It's 15 years after that, isn't it possible we could make an NES3 for $30 wholesale?

I guess it should be possible. But again, why? You can still buy a real original for less. That's the part I'm having a hard time understanding. Who would the target market be exactly?

 

Well, I'd say you could aim this at anyone with $50 to spend who:

 

A) Wants brand-new hardware with a warranty

B) Doesn't shop at goodwill (for lots of people, it ISN'T a way of life)

c) Doesn't pick trash

D) Had completely forgotten about "Those old games" until they saw this thing at Target

 

If the quality is the same between the new hardware and the old, and the price is close, I'm betting a lot of people will opt to get the new stuff. Hell, the convention circuit ALONE could probably move a thousand units or so.

[HFK]

Well, I'd say you could aim this at anyone with $50 to spend who:

 

A) Wants brand-new hardware with a warranty

B) Doesn't shop at goodwill (for lots of people, it ISN'T a way of life)

c) Doesn't pick trash

D) Had completely forgotten about "Those old games" until they saw this thing at Target

 

If the quality is the same between the new hardware and the old, and the price is close, I'm betting a lot of people will opt to get the new stuff. Hell, the convention circuit ALONE could probably move a thousand units or so.

 

 

What about the Flashback 2? It was new hardware and made people remember those old games without going to Goodwill or the dump. It did well but not well enough that it would justify Sega or Nintendo making a new unit. With all the plug n play games the general public really doesn't notice all the details and I just don't see it being a great money maker.

[Video]

I meant systems designed by the original hardware manufacturers, but with revised/simplified designs. Sorry, I should have made that more clear. When the NES came out, it was a $200+ machine. The NES2 sold for $50. It's 15 years after that, isn't it possible we could make an NES3 for $30 wholesale?

I guess it should be possible. But again, why? You can still buy a real original for less. That's the part I'm having a hard time understanding. Who would the target market be exactly?

 

Actually, no. In good working condition, an NES will cost more than you think. Even if you pick it up out of the trash, you can bet you'll sink at least $10 into it, just for the cart connector, and that's IF there are no other problems, such as missing power supply ($5-$10) Video Cables ($2) or controllers ($2-$10) You could end up spending $30+ easy, and that's on a FREE system. I'd gladly pay $30-$50 to get new hardware of quiet a few old machines. And that would be for parts and plastic costing the maker at most $10, so the only reason I can think they don't make some of these, is they just aren't interested in makeing money.

[VectorGamer]

http://www.glgroup.com/News/While-Sony-is-...weak-38787.html

[darthkur]

http://www.glgroup.com/News/While-Sony-is-...weak-38787.html

 

 

"Nintendo realized that most people do not care if the graphics are realistic, they want their games to be fun and interesting. "

 

I couldn't agree more with that statement. Of coarse, myself being such a huge fan of 8-bit technology, I guess this should be obvious.

[mbd30]

I don't care if there's a crash. Current consoles don't interest me much. There will always be older games to collect. There will always be tons of games to play just using a PC and emulators.