Do you think Satoru Iwata may be prejudiced against American gamers?

[Lauren Tyler]

I'm not saying that he is, mind you, but I was wondering if anyone thought he may be prejudiced against American gamers, or maybe just Americans in general? I mean, the fact that he specifically treats the American gamers like children while giving Europe and Japan a lot of the better stuff makes me think that he's possibly got something personal against the USA. I'm not saying it's true, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is. Either that, or he's just living in his own personal fantasy land where he thinks the USA is full of babies and children.

[2600Lives]

What, a Japanese person being prejudiced? The devil you say!

 

Seriously, though, he comes from quite possibly the single most xenophobic culture in the history of the world, so if he is, who can blame him (and oddly, while they are xenophobic, the Japanese still maintain a hardcore fascination with other cultures, and in particular, American culture). I grew up Baptist in the deep South, so it's my culture to hate blacks, gays, non-christians, etc. Fortunately, I was able to break out of that life and form my own opinions instead of having those idiotitc views around me constantly impressed upon me. He may just be jealous that Japan is no longer the gaming center it once was. Most of the stuff coming from Japan nowadays pales in comparison to the stuff made in the US. Games like Bioshock, Oblivion, Fallout 3, some of the greatest games of our time are made right here. Hell, when was the last good Final Fantasy? Way back with FF9. When was the last great JRPG? Probably Xenosaga III. US gaming has grown up considerably in the last few years, and will only get better as time goes on. Sure, it sucks we get stiffed on some great games (still pissed that Melty Blood was never released over here...), but hey, we still get games from Bethesda and the other great companies, so it all balances out.

[AtticGamer]

No, I just think he's a great president, business wise. He manages to be extremely commercial and at the same time keep the flame for Nintendo loyalists ablaze with the promise of classic Nintendo titles being delivered.

 

I prefered the old Nintendo, they were stubborn and sometimes unethical, but at least their systems were good and good games were made for them. The new Nintendo by Satoru is just a more commercial version and worse in my opinion. May I say I think Miyamoto is a little out of hand, maybe he's getting more silly with age, but I think Nintendo puts too much trust in his views.

[eskobar]

I'm not saying that he is, mind you, but I was wondering if anyone thought he may be prejudiced against American gamers, or maybe just Americans in general? I mean, the fact that he specifically treats the American gamers like children while giving Europe and Japan a lot of the better stuff makes me think that he's possibly got something personal against the USA. I'm not saying it's true, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is. Either that, or he's just living in his own personal fantasy land where he thinks the USA is full of babies and children.

 

What did he do that led you to that conclusion ?

 

I am curious because there are many Japanese icons that do business with the USA, i don't have the pleasure to meet Iwata San but i have read a few interviews and he is a normal person, nothing against US gamers.

 

About the "better stuff" that is released in Japan and Europe, you need to study every market before releasing a product, i know way too many games that have sold very poorly and i consider them as the best games...

 

Just look at Atlus .... they sell great stuff but the sales numbers aren't in the same league as Gears Of War or Halo for example.

Edited April 25, 2009 by eskobar

[ComputerSpaceFan]

It's not Iwata, it's Nintendo in general that thinks we're all children. I'll never forget Iwata's predecessor Hiroshi Yamauchi ruling Nintendo with an iron fist and saying video games are toys for children and the company will aim for that market. Hence all the difficulty getting stuff for an older crowd to ever take off on their consoles (just look at the 'sweat' in Mortal Kombat as an example). Admittedly in the mid-80's it was only children who were getting the NES but as an Atari generation guy I always felt ticked off that this kiddy image was so ingrained in the Nintendo culture. It was Yamauchi's doing, not Iwata's.

I actually prefer Nintendo under Iwata. He seems to "get it" when it comes to aiming at a more adult consumer in comparison to the Nintendo old guard.

[DaytonaUSA]

Japanese are far from xenophobic. They are some of the kindest, open minded people I've ever met.

[Artlover]

About the "better stuff" that is released in Japan and Europe, you need to study every market before releasing a product

Ok, and what market study was there that showed "Mother 3" would have been a flop everywhere except Japan?

[Jess Ragan]

Clutching at straws much? I guess the usual epithets (the Wii is just a fad, Nintendo makes kiddie games, etc.) just haven't been effective enough for Sony fanboys.

[Atarifever]

Clutching at straws much? I guess the usual epithets (the Wii is just a fad, Nintendo makes kiddie games, etc.) just haven't been effective enough for Sony fanboys.

Next week it'll be "I read Nintendo feeds off of babies and kittens." It's gone past sad to out and out pathetic. My favorite line in the above is that they "think we're children." Yeah, that's why they're stated aim is to sell consoles to your Mom. They're so focused on games being for children that they have hired famed child actress Lisa Kudrow to try to sell products to "young girls" between the ages of 25 and 50.

 

First it was that they were too kiddie with the Gamecube and DS, then that they were selling to soccer Moms too much who would only ever play for awhile then give up, then that they were selling to people generally who'd just give because they didn't really want or understand consoles, then that they were selling to technophiles who would give up because the system wasn't being replaced quick enough because people are generally interested in upgrading all the time, and now their President is prejudiced against his biggest markets. The mental gymnastics people are going through here to explain "products that appeal to consumers are purchased, and businesses try to anticipate and offer products that appeal to consumers for this reason" is astounding.

Edited April 25, 2009 by Atarifever

[2600Lives]

Well, I will say that each and every SINGLE player on SF4 on the championship mode who's language was set to Japanese kicked me out of the match before it even started.

 

Hell, Larcen, you wanna see arrogance? Look no further than our own wonderful AtariAge board.

[Atarifever]

Well, I will say that each and every SINGLE player on SF4 on the championship mode who's language was set to Japanese kicked me out of the match before it even started.

 

Hell, Larcen, you wanna see arrogance? Look no further than our own wonderful AtariAge board.

Yeah I know. You have a board full of people who keep claiming prejudice of an entire Country of people (the old and oft repeated "Japanese people are Xenophobic"). If anyone here thinks about that for longer than half a second they'll see how ass backwards it is to claim an entire group is anything while talking about how prejudiced "they" are.

[Pixelboy]

It's painfully obvious that Nintendo is going for the bigger market of "non-hardcore", casual gamers. It's always been this way with Nintendo, but the syndrome has been crystalized with the Wii and the DS, with hardcore gamers slamming Nintendo at every opportunity while swearing allegiance to the Xbox and the PS3.

 

It's true that Microsoft and Sony cover their hardcore fanbase much better than Nintendo does, but in slamming Nintendo for this, the hardcode gamers are sending out a very elitist message: What they're really saying is that casual gamers are not real gamers and no self-respecting video game company should cater to them. Seing as Nintendo is still making some big bucks with the casual/family-oriented market, I'd say their message falls on deaf ears, and rightfully so.

[eskobar]

About the "better stuff" that is released in Japan and Europe, you need to study every market before releasing a product

Ok, and what market study was there that showed "Mother 3" would have been a flop everywhere except Japan?

 

Your love for Mother 3 doesn't mean that the world will love it too.

 

You must remember the story behind the original localization of Mother for the NES, Nintendo decided that it wasn't worth the investment after studying the potential market .... and given the sales numbers for Earthbound on the SNES, they were right.

 

Don't get me wrong, Mother is one of my favorite series ever ... but you got to agree that American gamers doesn't have the same tastes that japanese have.

[Lauren Tyler]

First off, I can appreciate what you're saying, but Fatal Frame was a well received series in the USA.

 

And second, is Championship Mode only on PS3?

[2600Lives]

No, championship mode is the new DLC for SF. Free, and it's like a tournament ranking system. You'll have to try it to understand, though. Hope you don't mind fighting constant hordes of Sagat/Ryu/Kens, though. I played 15 Sagats in a row, and since I main Zangief, I got toasted.

[Artlover]

You must remember the story behind the original localization of Mother for the NES, Nintendo decided that it wasn't worth the investment after studying the potential market .... and given the sales numbers for Earthbound on the SNES, they were right.

Yeah, lets look at the numbers.

 

Earthbound (Mother 2) sold around 140,000 in the USA, sold around 300,000 in Japan.

 

Sure, half as much, but it wasn't exactly a stunning success over there either. I always laugh at Shigeru's remark of "We had high hopes for EarthBound, the Super NES version, in the US, but it didn't do well..." Yeah, don't look too far past your own backyard there buddy or are you saying you had LOW hopes for it there?

 

Besides, that was 14 years ago.

but you got to agree that American gamers doesn't have the same tastes that japanese have.

While I sorta get the idea your trying to convey, no, I don't agree. That's actually a rather prejudiced view. There is no racial/ethnic devide between people wanting to play fun games that interest them. RPG's aren't just an Japanese thing. Hell, neither is Henti for that matter. The fact that maybe some games don't sell as well as others doesn't mean there isn't market for them, just that it's a smaller market. Doesn't make that market less deserving.

 

Further, it doesn't make it less profitable either. It's not like there is a big of a cost invovled in releasing Japanese games else where. There is no real additional overhead. That was already spent in developing it for their own market in the first place. Mostly all that is invovled for reaching out is translations, that's it. This is even more true now, since all regions of modern consules use the exact same media.

 

As long as they aren't stupid and over produce the product for the markets they are reaching into, they WILL make a profit on it. So, unless they just have something against making extra money, there is no reason or excuse for not doing it.

[2600Lives]

Good points all, Artlover.

 

RPGs in particular had always been a niche market, at least before FF7 blew the doors off the genre and made playing them "cool", so yeah, I can see why Earthbound didn't do too well, comparitively.

[Mord]

Further, it doesn't make it less profitable either. It's not like there is a big of a cost invovled in releasing Japanese games else where. There is no real additional overhead. That was already spent in developing it for their own market in the first place. Mostly all that is invovled for reaching out is translations, that's it. This is even more true now, since all regions of modern consules use the exact same media.

 

This isn't entirely true either however. There's a LOT more translating required to translate an RPG compared to some action fighter that might have a few menus to convert. And where RPGs are already a smaller market, this makes it even more significant. Even after the translating, especially in older cartridge systems, the game would have to be adjusted to make sure the new data still "fit". Nowadays there's also voice acting considerations as most RPGs will have a dubbed version either by itself or alongside a subtitled version. Whether that's a needed expense, since a lot of people seem to prefer to keep the original audio, is besides the point since the companies tend to be pressured into releasing it in the target audience's native language. (Sometimes by law, but generally by choice in hopes of better sales.)

[Artlover]

This isn't entirely true either however. There's a LOT more translating required to translate an RPG compared to some action fighter that might have a few menus to convert. And where RPGs are already a smaller market, this makes it even more significant. Even after the translating, especially in older cartridge systems, the game would have to be adjusted to make sure the new data still "fit". Nowadays there's also voice acting considerations as most RPGs will have a dubbed version either by itself or alongside a subtitled version. Whether that's a needed expense, since a lot of people seem to prefer to keep the original audio, is besides the point since the companies tend to be pressured into releasing it in the target audience's native language. (Sometimes by law, but generally by choice in hopes of better sales.)

Regarding new data fitting. That was only an issue with cartridge bases system. Once everything went to CD and DVD, that became irrelevent. Even more so now because all games are mostly just a bunch of script files. Even considering carts. They did it with games like Zelda and Dragon's Quest, and even Mother 2. But now, it's completely a non issue. Change a font file, change a script file, change a couple of gfx/texture files and you're done. Also, this kind of touches on what I said about all media being the same. Back in the cart days, a SNES and Super Famicom cart were not the same. Different circuit board, different housings, etc.. Which means needing seperate physcial stock, seperate production lines, etc.. Again, not the way it works now. Now you can run off a few 100k of this language, run off a few 100k in that language off the same machine on the same media. All ya need to do is swap out the press die and the silkscreen template.

 

Also, the translation work is mostly by computer anyways with just a couple of people proof checking it. At worst, they do a crappy job and you get a few "all your base are belong to us" moments. Still easier to understand then a bunch fo squigly lines and dots.

 

 

As for voice acting (does Mother 3 even have any?). Yeah, that could be a point. Tho it's really not mandatory. Wouldn't be the first time I've seen a game where the voices were in another language and subtitles were used, if not the whole thing, atleast in parts of it. Not talking imports or anything here either. I'd be willing to bet many of the same people playing these niche games wouldn't care about the games being subbed if not flatout be the kind of people that would prefer it that way anyways.

 

Considering that more then one text-only fan translation site exist out there, there seems to be some evidence to prove that. An interesting quote on the subject is from Koichiro Sakamoto a couple of years ago in an RPGamer interview, who said in relation to fan translations that "he actually found them very encouraging -- it's something the developers should be doing, but because they're not, the fans are doing it instead."