Coleco caused more damage to the games industry then Atari.

[the-topdog]

Why would this thread need locked?

 

So that nobody steals it while we are at the arcade... duh!

Are those places still in existence?

 

We still have a couple here.

[Rex Dart]

Coleco caused more damage to yo momma

[Inky]

Coleco caused more damage to yo momma

 

You win an internet.

[high voltage]

I think cash is the second vector of bacteries and microbes.

 

The top 3 being : (from most infected to the less)

 

1- Mobile Phone

2- Cash

3- Public Toilet

 

In fact, may be guys who want in Arcade have simply been infected by the cash... and disappeared...

 

Number 1 would be -Humans

[65Gamerguy]

 

In my opinion Atari did much more damage than Coleco did, at least to themselves. The Atari 5200 couldn't play 2600 games

 

Neither could the Colecovision. What's your point?

 

My point is that the friends that I have didn't appreciate Atari's business nonsense. They had invested a lot of money in the systems thay owned, and then guess what Atari has a new system that won't play your old games then another. And none of them were compatible on any system, even the Atari computers. At least you could still play CV cartridges on the Coleco Adam.

 

Granted every system becomes obsolete eventually, but in my opinion Atari was just foolish and it turned a lot of people off.

 

 

The Adam? Huh? You were berating the 5200 because it couldn't play 2600 games. What does the Adam computer have to do with anything? Could you play 2600 games on the Adam without buying an adapter?

Sorry but I was 14 when the 5200 came out. I really didn't care about the "business nonsense" of Atari or any other company I just wanted to play good games. I can't picture anyone under the age of 20 giving a crap about a companies "business nonsense".

 

But the 2600, 5200, 7800, and 400 computer were MADE BY ATARI. And none of them were capable of playing any cartridges from any of these systems, at least initally.

 

Ok true, but back then backwards compatibility wasn't anything gamers cared about. Practically everyone owned an Atari 2600. Why would you need another system to play those games on when you already had that system connected to your television????

 

I didn't intend to berate any system because I enjoy these old games no matter what system they are on. The main and most important thing, I think, is that we all love these games for every system. I think it is awesome that we are here and that people are making new games for these classic consoles. 20 years ago I never would have thought that it would have been possible, but now it is, and I love it. And I hope it will continue because we old gamers enjoy it.

 

Just my two cents worth.

 

Have a great day!

[pimpmaul69]

honestly i think the amount of systems that came out caused it. personally i think the pile of pong style cartridgeless systems were mostly to blame. back in the early eighties most parents took out loans for anything electronic. people could not afford to buy electronics and shell out that kind of money all at once. so unfortunantly many parents purchased the pong clone systems or crappy cartridge systems like the rca studio ii trying to be cheap and that is what their kid was stuck with till the mid- late 80's when the economy had made changes and people could afford electronics. so had they bought into the better systems, those systems would have survived better than they did and weeded out the crap. but then to top that off people were trying to push computers. but it wasnt that computer games were neccessarily what everyone saw as the future but that parents had to then take a second mortgage to afford a computer and again the cycle of buying the wrong crap began again.... honestly i think computer standards kept a crash from happening again in the 90's. people were able to use their old crap for years and be able to use a lot of newer software or atleast could still have compatability between the newer ones.

Edited October 14, 2011 by pimpmaul69

[Mirage]

honestly i think the amount of systems that came out caused it. personally i think the pile of pong style cartridgeless systems were mostly to blame. back in the early eighties most parents took out loans for anything electronic. people could not afford to buy electronics and shell out that kind of money all at once. so unfortunantly many parents purchased the pong clone systems or crappy cartridge systems like the rca studio ii trying to be cheap and that is what their kid was stuck with till the mid- late 80's when the economy had made changes and people could afford electronics. so had they bought into the better systems, those systems would have survived better than they did and weeded out the crap. but then to top that off people were trying to push computers. but it wasnt that computer games were neccessarily what everyone saw as the future but that parents had to then take a second mortgage to afford a computer and again the cycle of buying the wrong crap began again.... honestly i think computer standards kept a crash from happening again in the 90's. people were able to use their old crap for years and be able to use a lot of newer software or atleast could still have compatability between the newer ones.

 

I don't think the "pong" systems had anything to do with it. Those were popular far before the cartridge-based systems like the VCS became commonplace. After I saw my first VCS, I don't think I ever saw a "pong" system in anyone's house ever again. With rare exception, everyone I knew had a VCS. The other very few had CV or INTV. I'm sure the vast majority of "pong" systems were in closets by that time.

[pimpmaul69]

honestly i think the amount of systems that came out caused it. personally i think the pile of pong style cartridgeless systems were mostly to blame. back in the early eighties most parents took out loans for anything electronic. people could not afford to buy electronics and shell out that kind of money all at once. so unfortunantly many parents purchased the pong clone systems or crappy cartridge systems like the rca studio ii trying to be cheap and that is what their kid was stuck with till the mid- late 80's when the economy had made changes and people could afford electronics. so had they bought into the better systems, those systems would have survived better than they did and weeded out the crap. but then to top that off people were trying to push computers. but it wasnt that computer games were neccessarily what everyone saw as the future but that parents had to then take a second mortgage to afford a computer and again the cycle of buying the wrong crap began again.... honestly i think computer standards kept a crash from happening again in the 90's. people were able to use their old crap for years and be able to use a lot of newer software or atleast could still have compatability between the newer ones.

 

I don't think the "pong" systems had anything to do with it. Those were popular far before the cartridge-based systems like the VCS became commonplace. After I saw my first VCS, I don't think I ever saw a "pong" system in anyone's house ever again. With rare exception, everyone I knew had a VCS. The other very few had CV or INTV. I'm sure the vast majority of "pong" systems were in closets by that time.

i grew up in a wealthy family, but i knew tons of people that what they got was all they got until the nes came out. and all of them had to take out loans to get that one system. so everyone i knew that invested in a crappy console or pong-style console or any other system for that matter never got another system til the nes. some people didnt even get a system because their parents got a computer for them. i was the only person i knew who had a computer and a video game console. i had a coleco with the atari module, an ibm pc jr and an apple 2e and 3 arcade machines as a kid. (arcades were asteroids deluxe, cosmic avenger, and super sprint)

[Mirage]

i grew up in a wealthy family, but i knew tons of people that what they got was all they got until the nes came out. and all of them had to take out loans to get that one system. so everyone i knew that invested in a crappy console or pong-style console or any other system for that matter never got another system til the nes. some people didnt even get a system because their parents got a computer for them. i was the only person i knew who had a computer and a video game console. i had a coleco with the atari module, an ibm pc jr and an apple 2e and 3 arcade machines as a kid. (arcades were asteroids deluxe, cosmic avenger, and super sprint)

 

OK, I don't doubt your personal observation, but I highly doubt that was the case in any widespread way. The pong-style consoles were primarily of a totally different generation of consoles that came before the cartridge based systems, and most were forgotten before anyone even got a VCS or whatever. I or most of my friends weren't rich by any means and even we got to upgrade occasionally. My point really is this -- tons of units of the cartridge-based systems were sold. There was an incredibly large (for the time) installed base. It shouldn't have had anything to do with the crash. It's not like the popular cartridge based systems were sitting on shelves unsold, which would have to be the case for your point to be meaningful, right? That the pong-style systems and people's inability to purchase cartridge-based consoles was somehow a cause of the crash? That clearly wasn't the case.

 

And loans, second mortgages? Seriously? Even my poor family and poor friends' parents didn't have to go to that extreme. Yeah, they were expensive. My VCS was around $200 when we got it, but even so... loans? I'm sure it happened, but really... it was usually Christmas presents and such. After Christmas every year, many kids had new consoles or computers, just like today.

 

Again, not doubting your personal observations, but to extrapolate those onto the cause of an entire crash... hmmm.

 

BUT... if you were to rephrase your argument as a fragmentation of the market by there being so many consoles on the market at once in that generation (VCS, Coleco, INTV, and all the other less popular ones), then... yes, I'm sure that didn't help matters any.

Edited October 14, 2011 by Mirage

[AlvinKarpis]

I never knew a single person in my neighborhood or at school that only had a Pong console up until their parents bought them an NES

 

Everyone had a 2600 (and one CV in my neighborhood) and when the NES came out all of our 2600s went into the closet or attic

 

And loans and second mortgages to buy consoles and computers? Every kid I knew back then got the system that they owned for X-mas. (even the poor kids in school had an Atari) I dont remember any family going through a finacial hardship to get a 2600 under their roof

 

I dont know if its because of where I grew up but everybody had a 2600, and then after 86/87 everybody had an NES

 

I had never even seen a Pong console as a kid until my next door neighbor had a garage sale and I saw him selling one that he had pulled out of the attic

 

If I had went over to a kids house and he was rocking a Pong only console in the early/mid 80s I would have laughed myself to death even as a kid myself

 

There is one thing that I never saw (even at a rich kids house) and that was having 3 (let alone 1) arcade cabinets

 

I would love to see pics of your families home with 3 arcade cabimets in the den (or wherever they stood)

Edited October 16, 2011 by AlvinKarpis

[pimpmaul69]

ok maybe i should have worded a little different. computers had a big to do in my opinion as well. a lot of crappy computers. and also stated lots of junk consoles. also too many kinds of systems out at one time. which system to choose. and i may or may not be able to find pics of the arcades and what nots, but i do have atleast a picture of our house with the swimming pool and mini golf course outside if that would be proof enough. i would tell you to go to google maps but the owners now tore out the pool.. left the mini golf though.

[Mirage]

ok maybe i should have worded a little different. computers had a big to do in my opinion as well. a lot of crappy computers. and also stated lots of junk consoles. also too many kinds of systems out at one time. which system to choose. and i may or may not be able to find pics of the arcades and what nots, but i do have atleast a picture of our house with the swimming pool and mini golf course outside if that would be proof enough. i would tell you to go to google maps but the owners now tore out the pool.. left the mini golf though.

 

Computers had a little to do with it. Not the major cause of the crash by any means, but just helped the crash along a little bit. That's probably even overstating it. It's really more like that didn't help avoid the crash more than it actually helped cause any crash. I know once computer came down in price enough where I could get one, I dropped the VCS immediately. It sat in the living room for awhile, but then I sold it to help get a disk drive. I disagree with the junk consoles thing though. They were junk consoles. Almost no one had them, so how could they have hurt anything much. They're even hard to find today and they were back then as well. There was never much confusion about what to get back in the day. Nearly everyone had a VCS, so that's what kids screamed for, and that's what the parents almost always bought. Just like the other items, the market fragmentation didn't help the issue, but didn't cause the crash either.

 

The causes of the crash are fairly well known and acknowledged, and people will be trying to revise history forever probably, but there's really not much point in it. As for the pics, I don't see how any pics of your house, even the arcade machines would prove a single thing. Not one of your points would be supported or enhanced by your particular family's situation or the fact that you had a mini golf course, a pool, or arcade machines. Right?

[pimpmaul69]

ok maybe i should have worded a little different. computers had a big to do in my opinion as well. a lot of crappy computers. and also stated lots of junk consoles. also too many kinds of systems out at one time. which system to choose. and i may or may not be able to find pics of the arcades and what nots, but i do have atleast a picture of our house with the swimming pool and mini golf course outside if that would be proof enough. i would tell you to go to google maps but the owners now tore out the pool.. left the mini golf though.

 

Computers had a little to do with it. Not the major cause of the crash by any means, but just helped the crash along a little bit. That's probably even overstating it. It's really more like that didn't help avoid the crash more than it actually helped cause any crash. I know once computer came down in price enough where I could get one, I dropped the VCS immediately. It sat in the living room for awhile, but then I sold it to help get a disk drive. I disagree with the junk consoles thing though. They were junk consoles. Almost no one had them, so how could they have hurt anything much. They're even hard to find today and they were back then as well. There was never much confusion about what to get back in the day. Nearly everyone had a VCS, so that's what kids screamed for, and that's what the parents almost always bought. Just like the other items, the market fragmentation didn't help the issue, but didn't cause the crash either.

 

The causes of the crash are fairly well known and acknowledged, and people will be trying to revise history forever probably, but there's really not much point in it. As for the pics, I don't see how any pics of your house, even the arcade machines would prove a single thing. Not one of your points would be supported or enhanced by your particular family's situation or the fact that you had a mini golf course, a pool, or arcade machines. Right?

actually the pic comment was for alvinkarpis. not related to the rest of it which i dont even care to comment on anymore.its a lost debate for me and i concede.

[Mirage]

I know, I realize that comment was just about the 3 machines since he said he'd never seen an arcade machine let alone 3 in someone's house back then. I wouldn't mind seeing a pic of those also, honestly, that would be cool, but the rest of it isn't relevant or interesting (to me).

 

Anyway, no offense intended, I hope I didn't come across that way. Just adding my 2 cents to the whole debate. Obviously everyone's individual area was different, and everyone's experience was different. I was just commenting on the overall history.

[NIAD]

This has got to be my favorite thread of all-time! I hope it never dies or for that matter is locked for the ages.

Edited October 16, 2011 by NIAD

[Mirage]

I didn't even realize before that this was a tread started in '09. 2+ years later and it's still taking new twists and turns!

[Cebus Capucinis]

 

Just kidding.

 

Frankly, I wish Coleco would have stayed viable for longer and been a contender in the market for a longer timeframe. Can you imagine what kind of cool stuff we'd have thanks to their participation in the market for a longer period of time? Especially given that their system was later utilized for video processing -- the CV really had some amazing hardware potential, and if it had been fully realized, I think there'd be some pretty different innovation in the market today if not directly from Coleco but due to their involvement in the market.

 

Personally, like 'em or not, I think we can all agree it's a shame they're not viable anymore.

[akator]

Computers had a little to do with it. Not the major cause of the crash by any means, but just helped the crash along a little bit.

 

Really? I thought it was widely accepted that el-cheapo home computers had quite a bit to do with the console crash. Please share vetted sources of information (not Wikipedia) to the contrary so that I may be edjumacated.

[SoulBlazer]

How much each factor contributed to the video game crash will be debated for years to come, with the same vigor and passion and argumentive tones as historians debating the cause of the Civil War.

 

In both cases there are several factors generaly agreeded to have caused the crash, but you can debate as much as you want how much each one contributed.

 

Those factors being:

Rise of the home computer market

Too many video game systems on the market

Large number of cheap/crap games on the market

Changing social perceptions about video gaming

Decline of the arcade market

 

Also remember the crash only happened in North America. Japan and Europe may have experienced a little of the effect, but nothwere near as bad as we had it here in the States.

[R.Cade]

Commodore's rise to the top of the consumer gaming market with the C64 took over console popularity for a few years. Until the NES came along.

 

That's what happened in 1983.

[akator]

I'm pretty aware of what happened back then. My friends and I abandoned our consoles in favor of computers.

 

My "need for education" is verifiable information to back up the claim that home computers had little or nothing to do with the US console crash. My experiences from the time may only be anecdotal, but they were shared by millions of others who bought VIC-20s, C-64s, TRS-80s, Apple IIs, 400s, 800s, etc., instead of new consoles or console games.

[Chris Leach]

honestly i think the amount of systems that came out caused it. personally i think the pile of pong style cartridgeless systems were mostly to blame. back in the early eighties most parents took out loans for anything electronic. people could not afford to buy electronics and shell out that kind of money all at once. so unfortunantly many parents purchased the pong clone systems or crappy cartridge systems like the rca studio ii trying to be cheap and that is what their kid was stuck with till the mid- late 80's when the economy had made changes and people could afford electronics. so had they bought into the better systems, those systems would have survived better than they did and weeded out the crap. but then to top that off people were trying to push computers. but it wasnt that computer games were neccessarily what everyone saw as the future but that parents had to then take a second mortgage to afford a computer and again the cycle of buying the wrong crap began again.... honestly i think computer standards kept a crash from happening again in the 90's. people were able to use their old crap for years and be able to use a lot of newer software or atleast could still have compatability between the newer ones.

 

Sad thing I read here the most is how people did not have a lot of money back in the 80's to afford such luxuries as a home video game console.

 

If you compare that with the fact that today people can't afford these same luxuries, yet every household seems to have a brand new Wii or Xbox 360 in it thanks to the government. Back in the 80's your dad new what work was and how to make the bills paid up to date by working.

IMHO Todays general population is filled with non working individuals that collect from the state and they dont know what a budget is. I know this is a broad statement and it is not meant for anyone who may have lost their job thanks to our crappy economy, but seriously...

.....if you are collecting assistance of any sort because of just about any reason other than be disabled or mentally incapable of working, should your 4 year old really have a $300 gaming system in the house?

[akator]

every household seems to have a brand new Wii or Xbox 360 in it thanks to the government

 

I want in on that government program. Please tell me how to apply.

[boxpressed]

I recently visited my parents and brought back a stack of old videogaming magazines from my old room. These are magazines like Electronic Games, Video Games, Joystick, etc. from 1983-84. Besides being a blast to read again, they also tell a story of the changing marketplace. That is, even in this two year timespan, you see the number of pages in each magazine dedicated to computer games increasing every month. Even the titles of some magazines changed to include "computer" in there. There's no doubt in my mind that computer gaming cannibalized the console videogame market to the point where a crash was inevitable. The computer games were at least as sophisticated as console games, and you could pirate them.

[Mirage]

Computers had a little to do with it. Not the major cause of the crash by any means, but just helped the crash along a little bit.

 

Really? I thought it was widely accepted that el-cheapo home computers had quite a bit to do with the console crash. Please share vetted sources of information (not Wikipedia) to the contrary so that I may be edjumacated.

 

I actually agree. I overstated there, myself. I have always thought computers had a lot to do with it as well, as evidenced by my saying that I had dumped the VCS as soon as I got a computer and sold the VCS to buy another computer peripheral. I got a little carried away there in trying to argue against the, in my opinion, ridiculous claim that pong-style consoles had anything to do with anything.

 

I have seen others downplay computers' role in the crash, stating that the glut of crappy games etc had more to do with it. I actually agree that the glut had more to do with it than computers, but I should not have downplayed the role of computers as gaming machines as much as I did in the above post. What exact % of the cause each was? That's impossible to quantify definitely, but obviously both were significant.

 

Yeah, cripes, looking at what I wrote there again, I was out of my mind for a minute. Then I directly contradict myself in the same paragraph. Doh! Sorry...

Edited October 18, 2011 by Mirage