LAST NINJA ON COMPUTER& VIDEO GAMES

[José Pereira]

Hello people.

 

I have a complete map of LAST NINJA I and I was surprised to see that some screens did not come in the final version of the game.

 

What I want is that you could sen me all magazines annoucements you have or find.

 

And, why the reason? It's because on Computer & Video Games on July 1987 you see the magazine's presentation of the game with many screens (it seems from c64). But, on the left side, the first picture (you only see a part of it), one of that unreleased srcreens - a room with an enormous Buda on the wall. This all is with 3 blue colours (I think), and this remmember the ATARI8Bit (I think the C64 don't have this type of blues). And more: all the screens, even the ones from the final version in status/army/energy area the leters from c64 are identical, but this is the only screen the letters are difernt (something in a chinese/oriental way). I see all the computer versions, even a non released Konis Multisystem by System3, but none of then had this kind of letters.

 

The Spectrum version only exixts, I think in sort of a Demo, as I read. But in one of that eighties sinclair magazines you saw a System3 advert with 1 or 2 screens (it says: "Actual Spectrum screensshots).

 

What I think it´s that something for the ATARI XL/XE really exists.

 

The story behind LAST NINJA was so complex, that I think that who knows all don't want to tell.

(The rumours about the idea of it came from an Hungary company called ANDROMEDA SOFTWARE, I think, and that SYSTEM3 ripped it) and even a declaration of an Hungarian who was behind the matematics for the sprites movement, that was shocked when he saw the awfull movement done on the final work by SYSTEM3.

The rumours is that all the time of LAST NINJA to came out was due to law problems, and that Hungarian didn't had the financial strenght to show their legitimal rights.

 

This month on magazine Retrogamer, on the shops at 23 May, you will see an interview with with John Twiddy, What they call the man behind LAST NINJA. I intended to send some of this questions to the magazine, in a hope that they put them to him, but now it´s too late.

 

 

So, the things I want you to Help me, it´s to discover more of this secrets, find more people behind the project or even E-mails to contact them.

 

To prove my idea of that screen, does someone have that 2pages from C&VG from July 1987 that

can show us.

 

You can also send me an E-Mail to: [email protected]

 

 

 

And that's all folks.

 

 

Thanks.

José Pereira.

 

(sorry for the bad english.)

[Jetboot Jack]

I had the contract with System 3 to convert the Last Ninja series to A8, I still have the contracts I signed with Roger Large and Mark Cale.

 

The game was not developed beyond a few static screens and an initial code test of sprite masking (based on the C64 version)...

 

Somewhere I have some LN II material from that time which I had hoped to post to my website, but it remains lost in my disorganized loft, along with a finished version of Trap

 

sTeVE

[José Pereira]

Hello.

 

Please Jack, find that material.

It was a long time since you said that (sorry, IT's not a pressure).

But, do all you can to find. Ok!...

 

And another thing:

That Blue screen with the Buda on the C&VG magazine it was from ATARI 8bit?

 

Thanks for your help.

 

José Pereira.

[José Pereira]

Another thing.

 

What is "TRAP"?

 

Bye.

José Pereira.

[Jetboot Jack]

Trap - Lemon 64

 

And no the C&VG shot is not from the A8 version

 

I continue to search for the code, I am sure I can easily find the docs (contracts etc)...

 

sTeVE

[José Pereira]

It's me again.

 

I have some ideas about doing the graphics for LAST NINJA.

I don't have many time, but maybe on Summer...

I'm not a programmer, I only know teorics, but I think that the screen

graphics will be simple, because I have the maps of all the scrreens

of I and II.

 

The only dificulty is to find a good art program on PC that emulates the

ATARI 8BIT, because I think that g2f it's not the solution.

 

I thind some programs like SIFE from NEW BREED SOFTWARE and another

one, I don't remember the name. Will it be possible more colors on each

line with that technics (interrupting 3times a line or more than 1 times a screen.).

 

I also have some ideas about the sprites. They will be in Multicolourred players

with 3 colours. But I'm only at the begining (we loose the High resolution c64 sprites,

but will have more colours and beautifull design of enemys pants, shirts...).

It's possible for soome way produce them in Hi-Res.?

To JET BOOT JACK:

If something comes out could we use the LAST NINJA names and logos.

If someone done the programming and you find you're notes, could you put them

public?

Did you remember anithing about the way you intended to do the scrreens and/orr the sprites?

 

 

 

Does anyone knows what programs will be the best for the screens.

Anyone more ideas and suggestions wellcome?

 

 

 

It is possible! I believe it...

Let try to doo all we can on this "dream project"!....

Ok.

 

José Pereira.

[emkay]

It's me again.

 

I have some ideas about doing the graphics for LAST NINJA.

I don't have many time, but maybe on Summer...

I'm not a programmer, I only know teorics, but I think that the screen

graphics will be simple, because I have the maps of all the scrreens

of I and II.

 

Well, theory and practice are not always the same. Even if the gameplay is crap in the game. If you really will show a fully running LN game in a reliable time, you get my honors.

 

The only dificulty is to find a good art program on PC that emulates the

ATARI 8BIT, because I think that g2f it's not the solution.

 

right

 

I thind some programs like SIFE from NEW BREED SOFTWARE and another

one, I don't remember the name. Will it be possible more colors on each

line with that technics (interrupting 3times a line or more than 1 times a screen.).

 

Yep

 

I also have some ideas about the sprites. They will be in Multicolourred players

with 3 colours. But I'm only at the begining (we loose the High resolution c64 sprites,

but will have more colours and beautifull design of enemys pants, shirts...).

It's possible for soome way produce them in Hi-Res.?

 

Ofcourse you could do the game in hires, and use the PMg for colour and object enhancements. The Ninja can be build by hires and getting overlayed by a player with a coarse shape. The enemies could be done via 3 colour players.

 

To JET BOOT JACK:

If something comes out could we use the LAST NINJA names and logos.

If someone done the programming and you find you're notes, could you put them

public?

Did you remember anithing about the way you intended to do the scrreens and/orr the sprites?

 

 

 

Does anyone knows what programs will be the best for the screens.

Anyone more ideas and suggestions wellcome?

 

For editing the main screen and player objects, G2F is fairly enough. But the rest had to be done via coding on the real thing.

 

It is possible! I believe it...

Let try to doo all we can on this "dream project"!....

Ok.

 

José Pereira.

 

Dreams mostly will still be dreams...

[Jetboot Jack]

I admire your enthusiasm, but doubt many have the ability to move this forward...

 

However for the record the game was done in Antic 4 - 5 color text mode, with DLI's to create more colors. There was some re-design of the environments (we did 2 screen tests I seem to remember) to better suit the A8's "stacked" screen architecture, so it would NOT have been a port, but a conversion.

 

The sprites were all monochrome, with color added via missile overlays (faces etc) - you and enemies were 16 pixels wide - and we were only allowing 2 per horizontal line (again some gameplay re-design and enemy pattern re-scheduling would have been required). All the isometric stuff was faked (as on the C64) - and that was done with a bank of masks that create holes in the sprites to allow character mode elements to appear in front of the characters without using priority settings.

 

We did consider Antic E and software sprites, but that would have been much longer project (as we had not done that before) - as it turns out that would not have mattered

 

sTeVE

Edited May 21, 2009 by Jetboot Jack

[carmel_andrews]

wasn't tusker supposedly planned for the A8....i seem to remember the rumours quite well

 

I think it was also done by system 3

Edited May 21, 2009 by carmel_andrews

[Jetboot Jack]

maybe - but not by me or any of the A8 developers I knew at the time...

 

System 3 did no internal development, everything was done by external developers under contract...

 

sTeVE

[José Pereira]

Hello.

 

About TUSKER I'don´t heard anything but at INTERNATIONAL KARATE/LAST NINJA times you saw on magazines many adverts about BANKOK KNIGHTS.

 

 

And for LAST NINJA:

I?ve spent the last days and nights watching videos and screens and I can say to you that the basic idea for the game is almost complete.

I have the fonts for the leters, the screens, the idea about the screen colours, the hardware multicolours sprites, all the priorities and colision detection betwen player/enemys,

playfield and objects.

 

Until the end of the month you will see the results.

 

The game will be coloured on an ANTIC4 basis with sprites multicoloured.

But I never give up of doing the sprites as a black software sprite and then coloured via the multicoloured players/missiles. Can someone explain with some examples of Demos/Listings and/or games where I can see this. How is the idea to do this? Please help me!...

 

Greetings to all.

 

 

José Pereira.

[Avram]

Steve,

 

That's an interesting comment about Last Ninja being a conversion as opposed to a port. I'm looking forward to seeing the documentation you created as I'd like to see how you planned to redesign the screens. Do you think, had you proceeded with the game, that every screen would be different from the C64 original?

 

Avram

[Jetboot Jack]

All I have is the signed contacts so far rediscovered...

 

But yes I saw as we progressed that there would have been changes on evey screen, however slight, to make them colorful and support the A8's architecture...

 

sTeVE

[Avram]

I'm looking forward to seeing what you dig out in the future. Right now I'm trying to imagine how you would have changed the visuals. The only solution I can think of is if you rotated the point of view 45 degrees (so the viewer is looking straight on, as opposed at an angle), resulting in something similar to Steve Coleman's Ninja.

 

And then I guess good use of DLIs to bump up the background graphics, two player-missiles for the main character, two more for the enemy (I don't think there was ever more than one enemy on screen at the same time) and then reserve the remaining missiles for any weaponry flying across the screen? Is this close?

[José Pereira]

Hello to all.

 

I move from my old house to a family one.

I only have some spare time at night. I've been studying "g2F".

I made some changes in my original ideas. I have the idea of using more than 1 screen and display lists to obtain more colours. Now I see G2f and the "rasters" possibilty.

But I´m Blocked. I don´t understand it very well. The instructions are a little difficult to understand. Someone give me some instructions?

I also study in High resolution, it´s a good possibility.

 

I have to go by now.

 

I think I can give you more details today.

 

Obrigado.

José Pereira.

[José Pereira]

Sorry for the interruption, but here I am again.

 

First another question aboutt G2F: All the screens I get from c64 and/or others I get the screen 48 bytes wide and if I try to put in 40, it cuts 8 on the left side. How can I get 40bytes (c64=A8 - 40 bytes wide)?

 

Now the ideas:

 

- C64 way - SIFE program - Put some colours in a screen and another colours on others (SIFE 0.0 you can get 3 screens).

For example: Light green (the floor - PF3), Light gray(the way-PF0), Green(trees and plants - PF1), Brown (other colour on plants - PF2). One screen.

2 Grays for rest of rocks/walls colours on another screen.

I get other colours in the 2nd and the third screens.

- G2F - The 3/4 colours for the background, with some display lists (one fot the bottom for the energy/weapons

place). Other display lists are almost impossible in playing area

(see some screens). The only way is "Rasters", but I completely

stucked, as I said on the last Mail.

 

 

- The sprites - Because no one send ideas of how to innterrupt with other screen to create the players in Hi-Resol. and will design them in normal way. Enemy - Takes the 3 sprites (2 multicoloured + 1 normal), 1 missile for one hand and 1 missile for the front foot (because of the colision registers - When foot take pf of Light green it not pass, and to create diferent loss of energy on player if he gets with hand or with foot). Ninja - software sprite for the black body, 1 sprite (hands, eyes and 1 foot) and the correspondent missile for the front foot (The same reason of enemys - colisions). Objects on the ground - 1 sprite - try to pur it in a place that the enemy don´t go and a missile ( When front hand of Ninja took it, it takes the object). Weapons - All with software sprites (immpossible with hardware sprites because of the size of some of them and ninja can have one and player another - replace black colour to Dark gray, one of pf(s). All the1 colisions can be set by this way.

 

 

- Hi-Resolution - All the sprites/pf overlap to get more colours on screen. 1 Player and correpondent missile for Ninja and other for enemy (don´t forget the front foot, because of the colision) for the clothes.

 

 

 

Some other ideas:

Objects - Interrupt sprite colors - Nice show.

Enemy - why don´t a friend have the possibility to control in on that screen, or play in normal way.

 

More to come tomorrow.

 

Send your ideas, conributions and what you think.

 

 

Best regards..

José Pereira.

[Tezz]

José it's a little difficult to fully understand what you are attempting to work out the possibilities of but from what I can gather, it seems in some ideas that your aspirations unfortunately are going beyond what is technically possible to achieve.

 

If you need any help understanding rasters and G2F drop me a PM.

 

If you intend to use mid scan line raster changes, it's possible to a degree but difficult. Really you would need to write a kernel ala 2600. As such techniques are so intensive, generally it will limit what is possible with the other ellements of the game.

 

With regard to interrupting the screen to create a hi-res area, it's not really practical in a game situation. Practically it is best to use only on static pictures. There is a GTIA bug that can be exploited to swap mid scan line from hi-res 1:1 mode to 4:1 GTIA mode 9 and then to 2:1 mode but you cannot change further. There's enough time to make 2-3 colour changes. A 32 byte wide screen allows you the most available cycles.

 

Regards,

Tezz.

Edited June 3, 2009 by Tezz

[tebe]

Now I see G2f and the "rasters" possibilty. But I´m Blocked. I don´t understand it very well.

 

"rasters" availible only for mode GED+ (char mode) or GED-- (bitmap mode)

 

"rasters" and GED+ = "bad lines" (lines 0,8,16,24 ... n*8 without "raster")