JonnyBritish Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 (edited) As a total Assembler newbie (did some very basic stuff (x86/Z80 years ago). Curious to know which is better, the atari assember cartridge or the Mac/65 from OSS.also noticed OSS did a set of macros to add functions for screen drawing etc? As a newbie the atari assembler cartridge will be more than enough for my efforts but just interested in thoughts on assemblers. I have no ambitions about building the nex killer game on the Atari etc but thought it would be fun to have a play with low level programming as I spend all my time in a highler level world with C# etc. Edited June 9, 2009 by jodonnell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sub(Function(:)) Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 As a total Assembler newbie (did some very basic stuff (x86/Z80 years ago). Curious to know which is better, the atari assember cartridge or the Mac/65 from OSS.also noticed OSS did a set of macros to add functions for screen drawing etc? As a newbie the atari assembler cartridge will be more than enough for my efforts but just interested in thoughts on assemblers. I have no ambitions about building the nex killer game on the Atari etc but thought it would be fun to have a play with low level programming as I spend all my time in a highler level world with C# etc. "Better" would be mac/65 The macros you talk about are part of the "MAC65 toolkit". If you are just learning the I would say Assembler editor cartridge is OK, but only for small programs, it slows up considerably as the program grows. Also you will possibly find the assembler edit cartridge is cheaper that Mac/65. Also worth looking at are cross assemblers, but this requires a PC and a way of getting the binary output of the assembler over to a real atari. (that is if you are not using an emulator). There are lots of threads out there on this site for the various flavors MADS, XASM et. al. I always think learning assembly is like learning Latin for English speakers. It may never be used as an actual skill, but you will learn so much about the way other languages work. good luck in your studies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldAtarian Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 As a total Assembler newbie (did some very basic stuff (x86/Z80 years ago). Curious to know which is better, the atari assember cartridge or the Mac/65 from OSS.also noticed OSS did a set of macros to add functions for screen drawing etc? As a newbie the atari assembler cartridge will be more than enough for my efforts but just interested in thoughts on assemblers. I have no ambitions about building the nex killer game on the Atari etc but thought it would be fun to have a play with low level programming as I spend all my time in a highler level world with C# etc. MAC/65 for sure. The Atari Assembler Editor is very basic, MAC/65 is a premium and highly sough after macro assembler for the 8-bit Atari. All of OSS programming tools are highly sought after, really, so don't expect to get any of them cheaply. They are very powerful tools that address the shortcomings of Atari's own programming tools which was why the company was founded in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjb Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Speaking of cross assemblers, ATASM is compatible with MAC/65: http://atari.miribilist.com/atasm/ Also, I recommend the 6502 Macro Assembler & Simulator: http://atari.miribilist.com/atasm/ It is indispensible. I use it at times to develop/debug assembly subroutines. It allows break points, single stepping, etc. Good luck! tjb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ascrnet Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 (edited) hi, Has anybody used the Mac65 toolkit together with ATASM or any other PC assembler? I'm trying to use kernel.m65 together with ATASM and I get function errors. Here's the error and my source listing. .OPT NO LIST *= $2000 .INCLUDE "kernel.asm" START GR 2 LOOP JMP LOOP *= $2E0 .WORD START error : ---------- atasm ---------- ATasm 1.06 beta (A mostly Mac65 compatible 6502 cross-assembler) Pass 1: Success. (0 warnings) Pass 2: Equates: @@PASS: 0001 *@@PUSHREGS: 0001 I: 2011 J: 2013 K: 2015 Symbol table: LOOP: 24ca QQBCLR: 2460 QQBMOV: 23f9 QQCFLG: 2004 QQCMP: 200c QQCOLR: 2001 QQDRAW: 22aa QQENUM: 2002 QQERMLEN: 22de QQERMSG: 22d1 QQERR: 22e0 QQFILL: 22bc QQGET: 2064 QQGR: 224b QQIN: 2120 QQININ: 2130 QQLEN: 2000 QQLOAD: 2177 QQLOOP: 2011 QQPASS: 2008 QQPGMV: 244c QQPIN: 20b1 QQPREC: 20a1 QQPUT: 2081 QQPUTB: 2010 QQRDIV: 2043 QQRMUL: 2023 QQSLEN: 24b1 QQSTOP: 23a9 QQTRAP: 2006 START: 24bd In kernel.asm, line 1032--[while expanding macro 'PLUS'] Error: Unknown symbol '?K' Output completed (0 sec consumed) greetings and thanks Edited September 30, 2009 by ascrnet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invisible kid Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 (edited) hi, Has anybody used the Mac65 toolkit together with ATASM or any other PC assembler? <snip> greetings and thanks I don't know if you are still looking for any answer on this but I went to take a look at it and noticed the kernel.m65 file I found had many, many control codes embedded inside it. My editor even thought it was a binary file. Printing it to the screen within the atari emulator showed the same thing. I couldn't find any other versions on the web. If this is a good copy I am guessing the editor included with mac/65 used/uses this format and the mac/65 assembler is able to parse it? This wouldn't go over well on any pc based cross-assembler. I suppose the file could be converted, but I didn't even like looking at it, so it wouldn't be an undertaking I would embark on any time soon. Edited October 9, 2009 by invisible kid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobkat2769 Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 (edited) hi, Has anybody used the Mac65 toolkit together with ATASM or any other PC assembler? <snip> greetings and thanks I don't know if you are still looking for any answer on this but I went to take a look at it and noticed the kernel.m65 file I found had many, many control codes embedded inside it. My editor even thought it was a binary file. Printing it to the screen within the atari emulator showed the same thing. I couldn't find any other versions on the web. If this is a good copy I am guessing the editor included with mac/65 used/uses this format and the mac/65 assembler is able to parse it? This wouldn't go over well on any pc based cross-assembler. I suppose the file could be converted, but I didn't even like looking at it, so it wouldn't be an undertaking I would embark on any time soon. I don't know if any of the original posters are looking for an answer to this, but I figure it might be a good idea to post the answer to this for anyone that comes across this thread later on like I did. =^.^= The kernel.m65 file really is a binary file. In fact, all of the *.M65 files are binary. The Mac/65 assembler tokenizes its listings both in memory as well as on disk to save memory just like Atari BASIC does. To use those files with ATasm, I would think that you would first have to "LIST" the Kernel.m65 file to disk as Kernel.asm and then convert it from ATASCII to ASCII text. BobKat =^.^= Edited December 26, 2009 by bobkat2769 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landondyer Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 As a total Assembler newbie (did some very basic stuff (x86/Z80 years ago). Curious to know which is better, the atari assember cartridge or the Mac/65 from OSS.also noticed OSS did a set of macros to add functions for screen drawing etc? As a newbie the atari assembler cartridge will be more than enough for my efforts but just interested in thoughts on assemblers. Mac/65 is by far the better tool. You will avoid emotional trauma if you avoid using the Asm/Ed cartridge. Although, I would personally cross-assemble and download to an emulator these days. (You can probably assemble a 16K game in under a second on modern hardware). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E474 Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 Hi, I'd like to use the MAC/65 tooklit macros defined in KERNEL.M65 in ATASM - but I am getting errors when I try to assemble a simple assembler file (have converted KERNEL.M65 into flat ASCII). Has anyone managed to get this to work? Also, does anyone have a collection of macros - ideally ones that work with ATASM? I'm interested in I/O macros, but any others would be interesting too. Am using WUSDN/eclipse on Linux, though this should not make any difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckybuck Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 MAC/65 is evolved from the Atari Assembler Editor. SMI's best woman, Kathleen, made the very first Assembler for the Atari. Later came OSS EASMD, then MAC/65, which is still the best on the original machines. Please check: https://atariwiki.org/wiki/Wiki.jsp?page=6502%20Assembly%20Code https://atariwiki.org/wiki/Wiki.jsp?page=Atari%20Assembler%20Editor https://atariwiki.org/wiki/Wiki.jsp?page=Mac65 and become a jedi master... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+slx Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Unless you want to code on Atari hardware, WUDSN Eclipse is the software to use. Coding is a lot more convenient with a full-screen editor without line numbers and debugging is a lot more fun on a PC as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E474 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Hi, I'm using WUDSN on Linux (it is a great IDE), but want to make an ATR of files that MAC65 can assemble when the project is finished (which it just about is). I use dir2atr to build the ATR, and copy it over to a Raspberry Pi which is running sio2bsd. All the MAC65 files are in plain text, and imported into WUDSN, but I can't get the MAC65 toolkit macros to assemble (kernel.m65 is the biggie - and either ATASM isn't 100% compatible with MAC65, or I am using ATASM wrongly). At the moment I am just using the IO macros from IOMAC.LIB, and they work fine. I have one quick question - what's the simplest way to convert ASCII <-> ATASCII, on Linux, or on the 8-bit? This is part of the getting my ATASM sources to work with MAC65. Ideally something that works from the command line, as I use scripts as much as possible. I had a look at "aac", but it gives me an error on Linux, and there is supposed to be an 8bit version, but it will only work with SpartaDos, which I am not using. Btw, I'm using real hardware as I am writing SIO commands for a Happy 1050 and Lazer 1050. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E474 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Hi, Just found the post on using tr with UNIX, works fine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfred Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 I've been tinkering with making the Action! editor able to save files in a tokenized format in an effort to help speed up the Six Forks assemler. It has occurred to me that it might also be applied to Mac/65. I know Roland would be all over it, but is there any reason to think anybody but him and I would find the Action! editor useful in the Mac/65 cartridge ? I'm not sure there's even space for it, but that can be checked. I expect it would work much the way the line editor does now, it would tokenize each line as you entered it, and detokenize in order to draw to the screen. I have yet to go over the token tables to see if there's room to add all the 65816 mnemonics and addressing operands and such. I already have an 816 assembler in Alfasm, but Mac/65 is really an excellent assembler with good macro capabilities. With a decent editor and some banked ram support, it could turn out to be a very good 65816 assembler. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckybuck Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 @E474: Did you try the 3rd link in post #10 for kernel.m65? Maybe, the file you own is corrupt? Just guessing. Stephen would never publish bug software, without letting the people know. It would be the 1st time I hear of a bug file from him... For ATASCII please see the files attached. CONVERT.M65.rtf OSS-CONVERT_with_DOS_XL_2.30p_Color.atr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E474 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Hi luckybuck, I think it might have been a problem with how ATASM processed the Mac65 macro files, I will see if I can find an example. I got the I/O macros like PRINT, BGET, BPUT, OPEN, etc., to work, but I think it fell over on something from KERNAL.M65, but I have to have a look to see exactly what went wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Pedigo Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 how do i run an assembled file. using atari roots for assembly and mac/65 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckybuck Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 Did you read post #10 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Pedigo Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 yes, no help from the manual Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckybuck Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 ??? You assemble from a specific address, let's say: $4000 , so then go to DOS for example (OSS DOS) and type: RUN 4000 That's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricortes Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 I had a Mac/65 cart for maybe 30 years and never warmed up to it. I finally gave it away because I figured it would be better off in the wild where it could eventually find some love. I never liked the tokenized storage of files. I never like not having page 6 available which is my preferred method of working out routines for use in larger programs. DDT was even worse in that it used up more of page 6. My favorite system for developing USR() routines was an ASM/ED cart plugged into a SDX cart on an 800xl so I could assemble code to page 6 and switch to built in BASIC with the routines still in place. Just about everything Mac/65ish that made it good was supplanted by other programs so long ago, it's like comparing Atari BASIC to some of the newer offerings like C or Altirra BASIC. Sure it is an important part of history and valuable as such, just that it is like choosing Deep Blue C over something more modern. Nothing wrong with it, just that there are better environments for programming. My favorite 'You are a goose!!!' moment was when I had a program I was assembling on an Atari with the ASM/ED cartridge and it was taking so long I decided to time it against an assembler on a '286 with a hard drive. I think it took a couple of minutes to compile on the Atari and when I did the same program on the '286, it was finished before I could pick up my watch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckybuck Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 ? Yeah, the good old times. I started with Kathleen's cart, too and the book from Inman. But with MAC/65 you could directly assemble to page 6 on disk and load it from there... But for just some speed routines, the Atari Assembler cart was fully sufficient, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckybuck Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 @Samual: Simply not true, if you have a true MAC/65 cartridge with DDT and have already assembled your code, let's say at $600, then you can go to DDT with the command 'DDT' and type in 'G600', which will execute your program at $600. Please don't tell, it is not there, when it is there. @ricortes: from #21: 'I never like not having page 6 available...' Maybe it is already too late here, but taking OSS DOS XL and the 1.02 cart of MAC/65 with DDT: page 6 is complete empty... So sorry for the truth... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 I do believe that with Mac-65 you need to use .OPT OBJ to get an assembly to memory where with the Atari AsmEd cart it's the default. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckybuck Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Rybags, not believing, that is the truth! Otherwise no object code will be produced! It is in the manual. That is why I wrote, whether post #10 was read? The manual there about the MAC/65 and DDT is clear about this. With OCR, of course, only the best for the community. But people really have to do their homework. In those times, sadly but true, there was no: ' Alexa, write Space Invaders in assembly language for the 6502 on an Atari for the MAC/65 for me.' But, there is still hope, these times will come... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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