7800 Expansion Module

[DracIsBack]

Were all adults here. And there's what, maybe 100 of us altogether who are into this system?

 

Point taken, though weren't a few hundred Cuttle Cart 2's sold each run? Interest is probably higher than "100 people".

 

Enough with the secrecy. Just tell us what's on tap. I stopped getting excited about "surprises" when I was about 9 years old. There's no reason to hide anything. It's not like the media is going to print the story and some rival homebrewer is going to beat you to the market.

 

As much as I personally would love to know what's going on, I don't blame 'em for secrecy. Homebrewers do what they do for love of what they do, not big bucks. How many times on these forums has someone showed something they were working on only to get flack when it didn't pan out?

 

Totally get why they want to keep the announcements under wraps until CGE and what's announced is real.

[GroovyBee]

And what happens if the expansion board or the games aren't ready for CGE?

 

Only expansion module prototypes will be available for the show. I'm only intending to have 1 or 2 levels running in my game. Full games and real hardware will be released later.

 

We are all aiming for CGE, if that doesn't happen then keep a look out for announcements from Curt in the forum.

 

Isn't it like next week?

 

Nope! There are four and a bit weeks yet. Its on the 31st of July and 1st of August.

[Gorf]

I only intend to have one round of levels of 'Birds Of Prey' ready for the show.

[Underball]

Were all adults here. And there's what, maybe 100 of us altogether who are into this system?

 

Point taken, though weren't a few hundred Cuttle Cart 2's sold each run? Interest is probably higher than "100 people".

 

Enough with the secrecy. Just tell us what's on tap. I stopped getting excited about "surprises" when I was about 9 years old. There's no reason to hide anything. It's not like the media is going to print the story and some rival homebrewer is going to beat you to the market.

 

As much as I personally would love to know what's going on, I don't blame 'em for secrecy. Homebrewers do what they do for love of what they do, not big bucks. How many times on these forums has someone showed something they were working on only to get flack when it didn't pan out?

 

Totally get why they want to keep the announcements under wraps until CGE and what's announced is real.

I've never seen that kind of reaction/behavior in the years I've been posting in the 7800 forum. I guess I just got used to/spoiled by generous homebrewers like Kenfused and PacManPlus keeping us all in the loop throughout the work in progress on a number of their great games. The whole tone of these 7800 projects seems to have changed now. It used to feel like a real sharing community, and now it feels more like there's a special clique "in the know" people who share stuff off the board, and everyone else just gets ignored.

 

And I'll be honest, I'm kind of pissed that the Prosystem emu, which was a community project when Greg Stanton released it's source, and which I've done a decent amount of work to myself getting it ported to the PSP and updatig things, along with gdement and trebor and a few others, seems to have been hijacked and is also now only being worked on by the "secret clique".

[Chickybaby]

Hey Underball and everyone - please keep it positive.

I know many do a fair amount for the community and may be frustrated or upset, but please take it up with these individuals privately and let us have our moment and support those who are contributing to the community. It may not be via the method that all would like but it's better then nothing and I have the utmost respect for those who program and release their projects for us to enjoy. While many are supportive Getting projects picked apart to bits and a lot of criticism can't be fun from some others so I also understand why someone might want to keep it more private as well until it is released.

Thank you.

[Underball]

Hey Underball and everyone - please keep it positive.

I know many do a fair amount for the community and may be frustrated or upset, but please take it up with these individuals privately and let us have our moment and support those who are contributing to the community. It may not be via the method that all would like but it's better then nothing and I have the utmost respect for those who program and release their projects for us to enjoy. Getting projects picked apart to bits and a lot of criticism can't be fun so I also understand why someone might want to keep it more private as well.

Thank you.

I hear you. Sorry for going to negative town, but it just feels different than it used to. Unlike almost every other forum here, this criticism and pickiness never really happened in the 7800 forum, on any of the homebrews I've seen worked on and released here. I've only seen heaping amounts of praise and encouragement and a boatload of happy and willing beta testers in here.

 

It almost feels like some of the negative aspects that have happened in other system forums here has started to overshadow the wonderful work being done on the 7800, and that's a shame.

[DracIsBack]

Ahh - ok. Kind of like the NES mappers would do?

 

Yep! I did mention it was like NES mappers earlier here.

 

 

I completely forgot that this conversation had occured. Must be Monday along with me reading about NES mappers and their capabilities this morning.

 

Can't wait to see what you guys come up with.

[GroovyBee]

I've never seen that kind of reaction/behavior in the years I've been posting in the 7800 forum. I guess I just got used to/spoiled by generous homebrewers like Kenfused and PacManPlus keeping us all in the loop throughout the work in progress on a number of their great games.

 

<rant on>

Pardon! You are saying that you aren't spoiled? Considering the fact that I've released the binaries for 5 new games for the 7800 and have more in the pipeline, released several tools and demos that push the 7800 to new limits. Never mind the contributions from PacManPlus, Propane 13 and Gorf and it still isn't enough?

 

The whole tone of these 7800 projects seems to have changed now. It used to feel like a real sharing community, and now it feels more like there's a special clique "in the know" people who share stuff off the board, and everyone else just gets ignored.

 

Designing something like the expansion module by a massive committee would never work. It had to be done by people that know the hardware intimately which unfortunately limits it to a select few developers. Everything that has gone into it has been discussed to a very technical level and its place in the expansion module critiqued and justified. I've just checked my emails and I have over 200 mails discussing the module and that's from the few in the Jedi Council. However, I'm sure the fans will love what games are possible with the extra hardware in the final version.

 

And I'll be honest, I'm kind of pissed that the Prosystem emu, which was a community project when Greg Stanton released it's source, and which I've done a decent amount of work to myself getting it ported to the PSP and updatig things, along with gdement and trebor and a few others, seems to have been hijacked and is also now only being worked on by the "secret clique".

 

No disrespect to the original author or contributors to the project intended but ProSystem has never seen that many changes in the 5 years since it was released. It hasn't been taken closed source in any way shape or form but you'll just have to wait until its ready.

 

You seem to forget that everything is done because we (as in developers) want to do it in the free time that we have available. If we don't have time it doesn't get done. Its only a hobby after all.

<rant off>

[GroovyBee]

I completely forgot that this conversation had occured. Must be Monday along with me reading about NES mappers and their capabilities this morning.

 

No probs. Just blame lack of coffee. Works for me .

 

Can't wait to see what you guys come up with.

 

Me too! .

[Underball]

I've never seen that kind of reaction/behavior in the years I've been posting in the 7800 forum. I guess I just got used to/spoiled by generous homebrewers like Kenfused and PacManPlus keeping us all in the loop throughout the work in progress on a number of their great games.

 

<rant on>

Pardon! You are saying that you aren't spoiled? Considering the fact that I've released the binaries for 5 new games for the 7800 and have more in the pipeline, released several tools and demos that push the 7800 to new limits. Never mind the contributions from PacManPlus, Propane 13 and Gorf and it still isn't enough?

 

The whole tone of these 7800 projects seems to have changed now. It used to feel like a real sharing community, and now it feels more like there's a special clique "in the know" people who share stuff off the board, and everyone else just gets ignored.

 

Designing something like the expansion module by a massive committee would never work. It had to be done by people that know the hardware intimately which unfortunately limits it to a select few developers. Everything that has gone into it has been discussed to a very technical level and its place in the expansion module critiqued and justified. I've just checked my emails and I have over 200 mails discussing the module and that's from the few in the Jedi Council. However, I'm sure the fans will love what games are possible with the extra hardware in the final version.

 

And I'll be honest, I'm kind of pissed that the Prosystem emu, which was a community project when Greg Stanton released it's source, and which I've done a decent amount of work to myself getting it ported to the PSP and updatig things, along with gdement and trebor and a few others, seems to have been hijacked and is also now only being worked on by the "secret clique".

 

No disrespect to the original author or contributors to the project intended but ProSystem has never seen that many changes in the 5 years since it was released. It hasn't been taken closed source in any way shape or form but you'll just have to wait until its ready.

 

You seem to forget that everything is done because we (as in developers) want to do it in the free time that we have available. If we don't have time it doesn't get done. Its only a hobby after all.

<rant off>

 

Not trying to discount your hard work here, GB. You've obviously spent a great deal of time on these 7800 projects. But I would like to see that source code for Prosystem, so that I can learn from what you've added (or subtracted). I know it's not "done yet" but taht doesn't bother me. I'm not looking for completed stuff. Just the progression.

 

And I think part of my bigger point was that some of us here aren't rich, don't own eprom burners of our own, and need to budget for what we're going to buy or not, gaming wise. With the addition of the Expansion module, which figures to be a few more bucks to spend just to get to play some of these new games, I think some of us would like to get a whiff of a hint of what's coming, so we know how much to try to budget out to get the games we want.

[HammR25]

They're going to demo everything when they're ready to demo it. They don't need to try keeping everyone in the loop. I'd rather they use their free time as they see fit. This module won't be sold out on day one. You'll have plenty of time to figure out if you want to spend your hard earned cash on it.

 

You oughta just respect Mark's decision instead of whining about it over and over again.

[Underball]

They're going to demo everything when they're ready to demo it. They don't need to try keeping everyone in the loop. I'd rather they use their free time as they see fit. This module won't be sold out on day one. You'll have plenty of time to figure out if you want to spend your hard earned cash on it.

 

You oughta just respect Mark's decision instead of whining about it over and over again.

I don't think it's too unreasonable asking what the ballpark cost of all of this stuff might be. I look at projects like the Cuttle Cart 2 which now go for $400+ because they aren't being made any more, and hope history doesn't repeat itself.

[Chickybaby]

Underball has made his feelings known and responded to Groovy Bee explaining why in a bit more detail respectfully enough. I am also sure that when more info is available it will be provided.

Please lets keep this respectful, polite, etc. and I do think it's time to move on from the particular topic before any nastiness or arguments start or continue.

 

 

They're going to demo everything when they're ready to demo it. They don't need to try keeping everyone in the loop. I'd rather they use their free time as they see fit. This module won't be sold out on day one. You'll have plenty of time to figure out if you want to spend your hard earned cash on it.

 

You oughta just respect Mark's decision instead of whining about it over and over again.

 

I'll also remind people that there is an ignore feature as well as please take it to PM if there are issues with other members. Thank you.

[GroovyBee]

Not trying to discount your hard work here, GB. You've obviously spent a great deal of time on these 7800 projects. But I would like to see that source code for Prosystem, so that I can learn from what you've added (or subtracted). I know it's not "done yet" but taht doesn't bother me. I'm not looking for completed stuff. Just the progression.

 

As I've stated numerous times in the last few months its ready when its ready. Having a hissy fit in public about something that isn't done in a time frame you expect for a project that I volunteered to do in my unpaid spare time isn't particularly good form in my opinion.

 

I don't do interim source code releases. The guys on the Jedi Council just want an emulator that does exactly what the expansion module does so that they can get on with their games. They aren't the least bit interested in the emulator's source code. We have enough things to worry about as it is .

 

And I think part of my bigger point was that some of us here aren't rich, don't own eprom burners of our own, and need to budget for what we're going to buy or not, gaming wise. With the addition of the Expansion module, which figures to be a few more bucks to spend just to get to play some of these new games, I think some of us would like to get a whiff of a hint of what's coming, so we know how much to try to budget out to get the games we want.

 

I appreciate that the expansion module will have a certain price and then you'll need games on top of that. However we are all working to make it worth every penny. As far as I'm aware there will be an expansion module for everybody that wants one. There is no real need to panic about their availability (or lack of).

[Chickybaby]

Ok both of you please take it to PM or posts will be deleted/thread locked.

That would be a shame for the whole community. Thank you.

[Underball]

Ok both of you please take it to PM or posts will be deleted/thread locked.

That would be a shame for the whole community. Thank you.

You can delete my posts. I don't care. The thread will be better for it. I didn't mean to derail the topic.

[Gorf]

Perhaps some day people on the side lines will understand that no one owes them anything and they should be grateful

for when anyone puts their hard work into a project. If you folks that are bitching and moaning about what you wish

you had or had not are so upset about it, you can always learn how to do it yourself like we all had to and then you

can do as you wish. Until then lay off. Let the developers do as they seem fit before you scare them all off due to

completely uneccesary and beyond unreasonable complaining. You will know soon enough what the expmod will have. If it

does not suit your happy place, either do not obtain one or come up with your own. It's easy to sit in your chair behind

a monitor and fire off compliants but for once, all of you( and you know who you are) try to put yourself in our shoes.

 

All these projects are hard enough to work on and we all would appreciate it if you did not make it harder for us with

the whinning. If others woking on projects wish to share their info with you before the fact, that is their right and

their perogative. Please give us the same respect. You might also do your self a favor and not expect anything because

that will always be a sure fire way to being disappointed.

 

Thanks,

 

Gorf

Edited June 28, 2010 by Gorf

[Chickybaby]

While I am in no way advocating a forced sentiment, Some have time to continue to chime in on an argument that I asked several times to stop, yet those same people have not had the want to wish someone whose father just passed some kind of I'm sorry or support.

http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/165233-aa-members-marcfrick2112-father-passed-unexpectedly/page__pid__2040964#entry2040964

 

To me, that is a very sad commentary on what is important and I would like for it to end before this thread does. Any more comments involving that particular discussion/debate/argument from anyone and it WILL be locked. That is more then enough. Thank you.

[Shawn]

While I am in no way advocating a forced sentiment, Some have time to continue to chime in on an argument that I asked several times to stop, yet those same people have not had the want to wish someone whose father just passed some kind of I'm sorry or support.

 

 

 

Seems kinda cheap to offer condolences to a total stranger that is just random 1's and 0's on your screen who you don't even converse with on the message board. Sympathy is best saved for those you know and care about as otherwise it's nothing more than meaningless apathy when you really think about it.

[Chickybaby]

When a person is on their own and dealing with a lot of loss and difficulty in their life, even if it's just 1's and 0's it means a lot to know someone is there regardless. It was a point being made that a community should come together to help our members in time of need and support them and not fight. I'm an only child with an only child going through a lot and I would be beyond devestated if I lost my father right now so my heart went out to him. If may not have been the best way to express there are people in need while there is stupid petty squabbling going on with people having to prove their point - but as mentioned earlier we're still all humans afaik with emotions and none of us are infallible.

I'm not going to derail this further and will ask that the thread please go back to the topic. Thanks.

 

While I am in no way advocating a forced sentiment, Some have time to continue to chime in on an argument that I asked several times to stop, yet those same people have not had the want to wish someone whose father just passed some kind of I'm sorry or support.

 

 

 

Seems kinda cheap to offer condolences to a total stranger that is just random 1's and 0's on your screen who you don't even converse with on the message board. Sympathy is best saved for those you know and care about as otherwise it's nothing more than meaningless apathy when you really think about it.

[Curt Vendel]

1. The hope is to have the Exp modules out for around $79-$99 with full plastics and such.

 

2. The CC2 didn't work with the HSC because the CC2 had the HSC built into it as I supplied the info and code to Chad to integrate into the CC2.

 

3. Its still uncertain if a "pack-in" game will come with the module, and what game that should be, we've talked about a few games, Donkey Kong keep being brought up because of the horrid sounds in the 7800 version, but again that is still up in the are.

 

4. Feature creep is still trying to paw its way into even the last finalized design, which prompted me to build the prototyping bus board so cards can be developed and we can work on testing H/W against the emulation to make sure we'll have a real world solution at hand in the end.

 

5. I've solved the interconnect issue with both the proto bus boards and what will go into the final production exp module units to allow them to be mated to a bridge board to plug into the 7800 cartridge slot and extend the slot up through the top of the 7800 exp module case with its own cartridge slot.

 

There is no deadline, no hard date, we work at whatever pace we work at, this has been a little more aggressive then in the past and I think that all of us from the hardware and coding side coming together to agree on the design was the best decision as it gives the coders exactly the hardware they are looking to exploit without having it come back later that "x" was missed or "y" really wasn't a good approach. The fact that we are moving int the prototyping hardware stage is a major step forward, so lets all just take a step back so that we can move forward on this, look in the end everyone is going to make out better then if nothing were done and it was the same system, same 80 some odd games, nothing new, nothing better, nothing to look forward to. I have spent the last 8 or so years trying to pump more life into the 7800 platform and this is just the start, so if everyone can take their hands off the keyboards for comments, cross-points and such and get back to focusing on making a great system even a greater one, we are all gonna win here.

 

 

Curt

[DracIsBack]

Thanks for the update, Curt! Exciting project, indeed!

 

Between everyone's efforts, it is indeed making exciting to be a 7800 owner again.

Edited June 29, 2010 by DracIsBack

[The_Laird]

I think this is going to be something really amazing

[Gorf]

Not to sound like Sarah Palin or nothing but...."You betcha!"

[Underball]

1. The hope is to have the Exp modules out for around $79-$99 with full plastics and such.

 

2. The CC2 didn't work with the HSC because the CC2 had the HSC built into it as I supplied the info and code to Chad to integrate into the CC2.

 

3. Its still uncertain if a "pack-in" game will come with the module, and what game that should be, we've talked about a few games, Donkey Kong keep being brought up because of the horrid sounds in the 7800 version, but again that is still up in the are.

 

4. Feature creep is still trying to paw its way into even the last finalized design, which prompted me to build the prototyping bus board so cards can be developed and we can work on testing H/W against the emulation to make sure we'll have a real world solution at hand in the end.

 

5. I've solved the interconnect issue with both the proto bus boards and what will go into the final production exp module units to allow them to be mated to a bridge board to plug into the 7800 cartridge slot and extend the slot up through the top of the 7800 exp module case with its own cartridge slot.

 

There is no deadline, no hard date, we work at whatever pace we work at, this has been a little more aggressive then in the past and I think that all of us from the hardware and coding side coming together to agree on the design was the best decision as it gives the coders exactly the hardware they are looking to exploit without having it come back later that "x" was missed or "y" really wasn't a good approach. The fact that we are moving int the prototyping hardware stage is a major step forward, so lets all just take a step back so that we can move forward on this, look in the end everyone is going to make out better then if nothing were done and it was the same system, same 80 some odd games, nothing new, nothing better, nothing to look forward to. I have spent the last 8 or so years trying to pump more life into the 7800 platform and this is just the start, so if everyone can take their hands off the keyboards for comments, cross-points and such and get back to focusing on making a great system even a greater one, we are all gonna win here.

 

 

Curt

 

This sounds FREAKING AWESOME. Thanks for the update. And don't let some of the confusing previous posts made towards me ruin this thread. I was in NO WAY trying to rush things or being impatient with the work you guys are doing. I just wanted to know which games are being worked on for it. If it takes another 6 months or 2 years to complete, that's fine with most of us here, I'm sure.