Drives for the Black Box

[+Larry]

Hey, Black Box owners -- what kind of SCSI drives are you using with your Black Box?

 

I've used the same Connor CP30200 (213 MB) Fast SCSI-2 drive since I got the BB quite a few years ago. It is a solid performer, although not real fast. I've also tested my old ST hard drive the ST157N which also worked quite well. However, it is neither as fast nor as quiet as the Conner.

 

BTW, I prefer the Black Box with its I/O sound toggled "on," and interestingly, there is virtually no difference in the throughput of the BB with or without the I/O sound active (as measured by drao030's RWTEST.COM. With my setup, the BB is about 2000 B/sec faster writing using a compact flash card (and IDE-SCSI adapter) than my Conner drives.

 

-Larry

[Mathy]

Hello Larry

 

My main HDD is a IBM WDS-380S. 80MB. It makes a lot of noise. Always has.

I've got a Western Digital WDE 4360 here that I can't seem to get to respond. It's got 4 GB (yeh, GIGAbyte). But it's not build into the tower at the moment. I might have damaged it when I tried to get the HDD access LED in my tower to work.

In the tower I have, next to the WDS-380S an IBM DCAS-32160. 2 GB. When I "run though the sectors" using the TaskMaster (BB's built in sector editor), every so often, it can't read a sector. It's not always the same sector and it's not every 512 sectors, so it's probably some jumper error.

 

You question had me get my system back up, but I can't seem to find that .... SCSI cable that goes between my tower and the BlackBox.

 

BTW the ZIPdrive is external. And since I haven't been using a lot of time to get my tower ready...

In the tower I also have two CD-ROM drives, a DVD-ROM drive and the new device that I need the SCSI 2 IDE bridge for. The first three of those devices can ofcourse be controlled from BlackBox/Atari. But since I can't find that SCSI-cable (as mentioned above) and the names aren't on them .... But these three all are Pioneer. One is mentioned on my site, it's the Pioneer DR-506S or DR-U06S (one of them is the bulk version, but it's the same drive).

 

Greetings

 

Mathy

[Fox-1 / mnx]

Hey, Black Box owners -- what kind of SCSI drives are you using with your Black Box?

Imprimis - 676MB SCSI (can't check model# in running mode)

IBM WDS-380S - 80MB SCSI (requires parity bit)

[Fuji-Man]

Larry

 

SyJet 1.5 SCSI.

 

Fuji-Man

 

Hey, Black Box owners -- what kind of SCSI drives are you using with your Black Box?

 

I've used the same Connor CP30200 (213 MB) Fast SCSI-2 drive since I got the BB quite a few years ago. It is a solid performer, although not real fast. I've also tested my old ST hard drive the ST157N which also worked quite well. However, it is neither as fast nor as quiet as the Conner.

 

BTW, I prefer the Black Box with its I/O sound toggled "on," and interestingly, there is virtually no difference in the throughput of the BB with or without the I/O sound active (as measured by drao030's RWTEST.COM. With my setup, the BB is about 2000 B/sec faster writing using a compact flash card (and IDE-SCSI adapter) than my Conner drives.

 

-Larry

[Marius]

Hey, Black Box owners -- what kind of SCSI drives are you using with your Black Box?

Imprimis - 676MB SCSI (can't check model# in running mode)

 

Wow 676MB ... If you had two of these drives in use, you would have a giant backup space for all your sources and other tools!

Wouldn't that be GREAT!!!!

 

Btw. Weren't you used to have two of these Imprimis harddisks in use? :D

[AtariGeezer]

Okay, another macro bump

 

Now that I have a Black Box on the way, I'm looking for what hard drives are being currently used.

So from this thread we have:

 

Seagate ST157N

WDS-380S - 80MB SCSI

SyJet 1.5 SCSI

Connor CP30200 Fast SCSI-2

Imprimis - 676MB SCSI

 

Anyone else using something different?

[+Larry]

That is a macro-bump! :-)

 

My recollection is that almost everything that I tried (up through WIDE SCSI) with the BB worked, so long as you have the parity mod. For the last several years of my BB use (until the IDE+2 took over), I used the ACARD SCSI converter with various IDE drives and cards. I also used (mentioned elsewhere) an internal ZIP SCSI drive. If you are interested, I'll look through my drives and see what I've got. I've also got a nice "cheat sheet" that explains how to set the drives up for the BB that is quite a bit clearer than the CSS manual (IMO).

 

I think you will have no problem coming up with a good drive. The BB made a quantum leap over the MIO in drive compatibility when it debuted (1989?). Hope you got a Floppy Board, too!

 

-Larry

[Mathy]

Hello Larry

 

Cheat sheet? Sounds interesting.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

[AtariGeezer]

That is a macro-bump! :-)

 

My recollection is that almost everything that I tried (up through WIDE SCSI) with the BB worked, so long as you have the parity mod. For the last several years of my BB use (until the IDE+2 took over), I used the ACARD SCSI converter with various IDE drives and cards. I also used (mentioned elsewhere) an internal ZIP SCSI drive. If you are interested, I'll look through my drives and see what I've got. I've also got a nice "cheat sheet" that explains how to set the drives up for the BB that is quite a bit clearer than the CSS manual (IMO).

 

I think you will have no problem coming up with a good drive. The BB made a quantum leap over the MIO in drive compatibility when it debuted (1989?). Hope you got a Floppy Board, too!

 

-Larry

I would like to see your "Cheat Sheet" also

Don't have a floppy board yet, I've emailed Bob Puff 5 days ago about that, but no response yet...

[Mathy]

Hello AtariGeezer

 

You will not get a response from Bob Puff if you email him. Call him and he'll talk to you and answer any question you have, as long as no customer comes in.

 

BTW not all the phone numbers mentioned in old documentation are still used by Bob.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

Edited August 3, 2014 by Mathy

[+Larry]

OK, due to popular demand I'll get out the "cheat sheet" and verify it by setting up a new card, then post it, along with a similar sheet for setting up the ACARD adapter for the BB/MIO.

 

In the meantime, I got out a BB/FB with ACARD adapter. Still works like a champ. The firmware is sweet! Too bad the source code is "lost."

 

You are unlikely to get an email reply from Bob. Calling is more effective, but he sold all the remaining BB and FB several years ago. Still, never hurts to ask.

 

One of the weak points of the BB is the power supply. If you don't need the modem, the BB can run on a regular +5VDC power supply. I use a +2a regulated switcher. I don't remember if the printer connection still works or not, but I've used APE for printing for many years. If the original PS works, great, but this alternate is good to know.

 

-Larry

[BillC]

That is a macro-bump! :-)

 

My recollection is that almost everything that I tried (up through WIDE SCSI) with the BB worked, so long as you have the parity mod. For the last several years of my BB use (until the IDE+2 took over), I used the ACARD SCSI converter with various IDE drives and cards. I also used (mentioned elsewhere) an internal ZIP SCSI drive. If you are interested, I'll look through my drives and see what I've got. I've also got a nice "cheat sheet" that explains how to set the drives up for the BB that is quite a bit clearer than the CSS manual (IMO).

 

I think you will have no problem coming up with a good drive. The BB made a quantum leap over the MIO in drive compatibility when it debuted (1989?). Hope you got a Floppy Board, too!

 

-Larry

There is later firmware for the MIO(1.42?) that is supposed to increase drive compatibility drastically. Parity, and sometimes terminator power, mods are also required by a lot of later SCSI HDDs.

[Marius]

Hello AtariGeezer

 

You will not get a response from Bob Puff if you email him. Call him and he'll talk to you and answer any question you have, as long as no customer comes in.

 

BTW not all the phone numbers mentioned in old documentation are still used by Bob.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

Puff has always been answering my emails. Perhaps you are on his blacklist mathy

[+Larry]

There is later firmware for the MIO(1.42?) that is supposed to increase drive compatibility drastically. Parity, and sometimes terminator power, mods are also required by a lot of later SCSI HDDs.

 

True, and there may be a corollary for the BB -- I've always had the BB "enhancer" rom which I think is 2.16. If you have an earlier rom, there may be some issues.

 

I set up a new CF card with my "cheat sheet" and all went well, but I could not set up a card of >512 MB. I also set up an SD card using a CF adapter and that also went well, but again, nothing > 512 MB worked.

 

-Larry

[Mathy]

Hello guys

 

Looks like there are two "Acards" we can use. The AEC-7720U and the AEC-7720UW. Apart from the SCSI connector (50 vs 68 pins), are there any differences that should concern an Atari 8 bit user?

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

PS can we use booth master and slave or just one device per Acard?

Edited August 3, 2014 by Mathy

[pixelmischief]

For what it's worth, I use generic "SCSI-2-IDE" adapters attached to "IDE-2-CF" adapters on the TT and the Mega STe. Works like a charm. If others are using ST drives with their BB's, there is some reason to believe that these will work, too.

 

Also, what's with all the Black Box talk. Did Bob Puff make another run? Geezer, how do YOU have one "on the way". =)

[bobotech]

 

Also, what's with all the Black Box talk. Did Bob Puff make another run? Geezer, how do YOU have one "on the way". =)

I'm betting this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Atari-8-Bit-CSS-Black-Box-PBI-Device-with-Power-Supply-and-BlackBox-Enhancer-/131230163790?pt=US_Vintage_Computers_Mainframes&hash=item1e8ded634e&nma=true&si=6ByX0spWwJdmrvpIC0eZDVfB2n0%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

[AtariGeezer]

For what it's worth, I use generic "SCSI-2-IDE" adapters attached to "IDE-2-CF" adapters on the TT and the Mega STe. Works like a charm. If others are using ST drives with their BB's, there is some reason to believe that these will work, too.

 

Also, what's with all the Black Box talk. Did Bob Puff make another run? Geezer, how do YOU have one "on the way". =)

A guy in Germany had one for sale on ebay. Just the Black Box, no enhancer, floppy board or power supply...

 

@bobotech, nope not that one

[+Larry]

OMG! I can sell a couple of mine and retire. Oh wait -- I'm already retired... :-)

-Larry

[Mathy]

Hello AtariGeezer

 

The BB Enhancer is in the ROM. Just change the existing ROM-version of version 2.16 and you've got a BB with Enhancer.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

[AtariGeezer]

Hello AtariGeezer

 

The BB Enhancer is in the ROM. Just change the existing ROM-version of version 2.16 and you've got a BB with Enhancer.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

Oh, okay thank you

 

I've downloaded all the info from your BB page, so I'll update the ROM since the one coming has ver 1.44 and I'll add the parity fix too.

Now if I can find a Floppy Board, I'll be set...

[Mathy]

Hello AtariGeezer

 

Could you send me a digital version of the 1.44 ROM?

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

[AtariGeezer]

Hello AtariGeezer

 

Could you send me a digital version of the 1.44 ROM?

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

When it arrives, you bet

[+Larry]

Here are the "cheat sheets" mentioned previously. Setting up a BB hard drive is a bit tricky due to the layout of the Menu pages. Hopefully less so with these additional docs.

 

If you spot any errors, please let me know.

 

Larry

Setting up a Black Box Hard Drive System.pdf

How to Set Up the Acard with BB (or MIO).pdf

[+Larry]

A modestly interesting discovery on the BB... When I ran RWTEST on the BB using the SD Card/adapter it was slower writing than with a regular CF card by about 1400 bytes/second. The Write speed of the BB has always been fairly slow (typically 7-9 KB/s), because Bob used the full 512-byte sectors (split) -- drives were expensive back then. Remember when the "standard" was about $1 per MB? But the flip side is that the Read speed is slightly faster (typically 18-19KB/s).

 

-Larry