Universal Chaos = Targ

[Scott Stilphen]

After looking closely at the catalog picture of Targ, I'm fairly certain that Universal Chaos is the same game, with some minor graphics changes (but the car and the layout is exactly the same with both). The first pic is the Targ photo, with a close-up of the car. The other is a Universal Chaos screen shot, with the car.

 

[Tempest]

Yep I came to that conclusion a long time ago, I even put a page up about it.

 

Tempest

[Alex]

Yep.

 

Universal Chaos and Targ Thread

[Scott Stilphen]

Right, but in that thread you stated it was a clone of Targ, implying that it was done seperately from CBS's Targ, whereas I'm saying the code is one and the same

 

I also make a hacked version of U.C. with graphics that resemble the Targ arcade version.

[Alex]

I said it was a clone of the Targ arcade game. As in, it's basically the same game with a different title. I don't know the story behind it.

 

What code is one and the same?

[Scott Stilphen]

Ok, lemme try again....

 

You stated Telegames might have aquired the code and re-released it as Universal Chaos. I'm saying that's exactly what happened b/c if you look at the first picture I posted, that was from a CBS flyer and it's the same game (i.e. code) as U.C.

 

Matt: you don't even know what a "Targ" is

[Alex]

The CBS picture is not exactly the same as the UC screen shot. As you noted, the enemies are different, and the scoring area certainly looks different. So it isn't the same code.

 

Do we even know if the CBS flyer is a mockup or real? If it is real, perhaps Telegames got it and tweaked so as not to infringe on the license.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

I think, from comparing screenshots only, it's hard to tell wether it's the same code or not. The 2600 is very limited (only 40 pixel playfield resolution and 8 pixel wide sprites) and therefore if somebody would try to reprogramm Targ, it would probably look very identical to the original.

 

The difference in the score area are no proof too, because the Targ screenshot score looks like debugging output that would have been changed for the final version.

 

Without having both dumps to compare, we will never know for sure.

[Alex]

Interesting. Can you see any reason why they would have changed the enemies, if that is the case?

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Interesting. Can you see any reason why they would have changed the enemies, if that is the case?

If they used the same code, they probably simply hacked the graphics. You can think of many enemy shapes.

 

But they didn't change the car, because there are not very many variations of a nice, recognizable car possible (compare with Indy 500).

 

BTW: What is the case? I meant that I'm not sure, if it's a hack or a reprogrammed game.

[Alex]

BTW: What is the case? I meant that I'm not sure, if it's a hack or a reprogrammed game.

 

I just meant, if it is indeed the same original code, is there any technical reason you can think of why they would have changed the enemies (either CBS or Telegames).

 

I know you are only saying that it's possible.

[Inky]

Is it just me or does this thread remind anyone else of the 'God?' thread in off-topic?

 

[Thomas Jentzsch]

I just meant, if it is indeed the same original code, is there any technical reason you can think of why they would have changed the enemies (either CBS or Telegames).

No, I dont think so. Both enemy shapes should work with the same code (and different graphic data).

 

I guess that would be just legal reasons.

[Scott Stilphen]

The CBS picture is not exactly the same as the UC screen shot. As you noted, the enemies are different, and the scoring area certainly looks different. So it isn't the same code.

 

I didn't say it was exactly the same, but in a manner of speaking, if all Telegames did was some minor changes then it's basically still the same code My point (again) is the game was written by someone at CBS, not Telegames.

 

 

Do we even know if the CBS flyer is a mockup or real? If it is real, perhaps Telegames got it and tweaked so as not to infringe on the license.

 

The picture looks genuine to me. If you notice, the screen edges are "barreled", which is exactly what happens if the picture was taken off of a tv screen.

 

Telegames probably either couldn't secure the rights from Exidy for the Targ name, or didn't want to spend the $ to. It's also possble they didn't change anything, except for adding their name on the screen since that CBS Targ photo isn't a final version - what kind of score is AA2AAA?

[Alex]

I didn't say it was exactly the same, but in a manner of speaking, if all Telegames did was some minor changes then it's basically still the same code  My point (again) is the game was written by someone at CBS, not Telegames.

 

The picture looks genuine to me.  If you notice, the screen edges are "barreled", which is exactly what happens if the picture was taken off of a tv screen.  

 

Telegames probably either couldn't secure the rights from Exidy for the Targ name, or didn't want to spend the $ to.  It's also possble they didn't change anything, except for adding their name on the screen since that CBS Targ photo isn't a final version - what kind of score is AA2AAA?

 

We don't know for a fact that this was written by CBS. Until we find a CBS proto we can only speculate, and at the very least Telegames changed the code. Unless we know for certain I think it's important that we don't state it as fact. However, I would agree that is probably what happened.

 

I've seen barreled mockups (what are thought to be mockups anyway) before, so I don't think that's very conclusive evidence. Thomas mentioned that it looks like a debug screen (AA2AAA) and that would be the best evidence that it was a working copy from CBS.

[Scott Stilphen]

No, we can't say with 100% certainty it was programmed by someone from CBS (they might have subcontracted it out to someone else), but I wouldn't bet against it. The picture is in CBS flyers, and I doubt Telegames or anyone else would have programmed a new game from scratch and have it look almost exactly like CBS's version (didn't I already make this argument with those fake Airworld pics?)

 

Sure, you could fake a barreled screen shot (use a paint program, draw a fake pic, and take a pic of the tv screen), but I don't know of any fake shots like that used in any literature from the early 80s. If you do, please offer some more info.

[Alex]

Nobody is betting against it. I just prefer to say "probably" for now.

 

Parker Brothers used barrelled screenshots that were artist renderings in their catalogs.

 

I can't find that CBS flyer anywhere. Did they do that with their other games do they look like real screenshots?

[Scott Stilphen]

I've never seen any artist-rendered photos that took that (screen barrel) aspect into account, and I checked the scans of both Parker Brothers catalogs on the site here, and none of them show that. I don't think you understand what I meant. Simply put- if you look at the CBS photo at the top that I posted, and draw a line along the left edges of the boxes on either the left-most or right-most columns, you'll see what I mean.

[Alex]

I see what you're saying. I don't recall any renderings like that.

[rolenta]

One thing is certain, CBS never displayed Targ. The only unreleased game that they displayed was Wings.

[slapdash]

Can you see any reason why they would have changed the enemies, if that is the case?

 

If the top image is "real" and UC is just Targ, it could be that the enemies are just from different levels, and both are in the game...

[Scott Stilphen]

Nope, there's no other enemies than the 2 you see.