José Pereira Posted July 4, 2009 Author Share Posted July 4, 2009 I WAS ANGRY, VERY ANGRY! I STOPPED SOME MINUTES TO SMOKE A CIGAR... I THINK "XXL" WILL NEVER DO THIS TO A8 USERS... WITH SO MANY THINGHS HAPPEN THIS DAYS, NEW TECHNICS, 2... PAGES OF A8vsC64 DISCUSSIONS... IT WILL BE RETROTIMER, NOT RETROGAMER. PAL DEVELOPMENTS, ANTHONY WILSON, STEVE MACWILMEE (I don't use time to see if i put the name right), ICON DESIGN,... AND SO ON!... IF SOMEONE DO THIS, FORGET C64vsA8 DISCUSSION. C64 WILL LAUGHT ABOUT US!... I never try BBC Emulator. As I said some days ago, on another thread, Emulator, directly, don't give us anything (and, with less speed...). If I want to play that games, I simply get the correspondent computer emulator, and play the game like I was on that machine. José Pereira. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 Re: BBC Micro version Haha... the water in the park looks like lava. some park... don't take your kids there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oky2000 Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 Last Ninja on Atari 8-bit? I would be rather surprised if this could be accomplished. Do you plan to port it from Spectrum (b/w high resolution) or C64 (colorful but lower resolution)? Anyway, I'll keep my fingers crossed Specbum? Why? The C64 and Amiga versions are the definitive ones, nothing else is worth considering converting unless there is a problem using the C64 graphics/sound/gameplay as the basis for the conversion IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R4ngerM4n Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 Specbum? Why? The C64 and Amiga versions are the definitive ones, nothing else is worth considering converting unless there is a problem using the C64 graphics/sound/gameplay as the basis for the conversion IMO There indeed is a problem: C64 mixes high res sprites with low res background. You cannot do this on Atari. So you have to decide: either use high res for everything (like Spectrum) or use low res for everything (colorwise closer to C64 version). Does this answer your question(s)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 NO_! can you read it? Ofcourse you can do mixed graphics in hires and colour res. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oky2000 Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 Specbum? Why? The C64 and Amiga versions are the definitive ones, nothing else is worth considering converting unless there is a problem using the C64 graphics/sound/gameplay as the basis for the conversion IMO There indeed is a problem: C64 mixes high res sprites with low res background. You cannot do this on Atari. So you have to decide: either use high res for everything (like Spectrum) or use low res for everything (colorwise closer to C64 version). Does this answer your question(s)? My personal advice is please use the C64 version and make the best of that machines existing graphics for conversion. The Atari is a colour computer and the C64 graphics were very nice and colourful and due to the unique viewpoint the fact it is 160x200 resolution (ie double width pixels) doesn't matter as the entire image is drawn on a 2:1 angle for horizontal/vertical pixels. Good luck with this project to Jose btw. You take on a big challenge and for this I commend you. It is very hard to finish these projects, I am STILL working on Nemesis/Gradius for Amiga 1000 in 512K after 6 months of head scratching and pixel drawing. It's a struggle to find motivation to finish once started but Last Ninja on A8 is a good choice of conversion for this unloved (in UK) machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R4ngerM4n Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 NO_!can you read it? No, help me. How to pronounce the underbar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share Posted July 6, 2009 Hello to all! When I start this conversation with you, some time ago, I ASK: HOW TO MIX HI and MIDDLE RESOLUTION? The only answer I get was see that demo, that show that so called "GTIA BUG". What I learn from that, and read the author (or someone else's comment) was: you have the 3 resolutions (one on left, other on middle and the other on right). What I take from that it's that was no way to have the two resolutions on the same place (what you have in LN - graphic screen and sprites). So, EMKAY: How will you do that, show me an example, from you, or others? Thanks José Pereira. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oky2000 Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Hello to all! When I start this conversation with you, some time ago, I ASK: HOW TO MIX HI and MIDDLE RESOLUTION? The only answer I get was see that demo, that show that so called "GTIA BUG". What I learn from that, and read the author (or someone else's comment) was: you have the 3 resolutions (one on left, other on middle and the other on right). What I take from that it's that was no way to have the two resolutions on the same place (what you have in LN - graphic screen and sprites). So, EMKAY: How will you do that, show me an example, from you, or others? Thanks José Pereira. Don't worry too much about copying hires sprites of the C64 version, other colour machines made do with 160x200 Ninja graphic like the Amstrad CPC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym00 Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 (edited) Don't worry too much about copying hires sprites of the C64 version, other colour machines made do with 160x200 Ninja graphic like the Amstrad CPC That looks remarkably like the PC version I think, it just smells of EGA colours It's not certainly not an Amstrad, which looks like this unfortunately.. And I don't think there were any other 160 resolution versions, only the C64.. edit: Oops, it appears there was an Apple II version, but looks atrocious! Edited July 6, 2009 by andym00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 The Amstrad version looks sad with it's 320x in 4 colours. Only 1 fg colour used in the playfield by the looks of it, with the other 2 wasted on the border and power bar. The Apple II version seems to be lores, 140 across or whatever their multicolour mode is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share Posted July 6, 2009 160 pixels versions: APLLE II and BBC. In TRS-80 COLOUR I cannot say what resolution. In the two YOUTUBE videos, probably yes, probably no. And I also don't know anything about this machine garphic modes. If it's 160 resol., then Ninja sprite would what I would like to see on A8. I also discover another version. It seems to be in 160, but I only get the game disk covers and it's very difficult to understand. It's a 4/5 colour version, in a screen, with little vertical number of pixels. It's from a machine I nerver heard of: THE OLIVETTI PC1 (I tthink it's PC1). The LN1 does not exist in ZX or CPC. I only get some ZX pictures from magazines. LN2 are the same in ZX and CPC (only monocolour - black and white - playing screen area). That screen you show, on PC, ST or AMIGA, all the 3 versions are 320 pixels horizontal resolution, like Apple IIGS and ACORN ARCHIMEDES. José Pereira. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Maybe the Amstrad version was a compromise to make parallel dev with the Spectrum version easier. It has a virtually identical graphics system to BBC and usually more RAM so there's no reason why a 16 colour 160 version wasn't possible. So far as Atari goes - I'm no fan of 320 with colour overlays for graphical games. 160 across would be the definate choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share Posted July 6, 2009 .jpg] It's not OLIVETTI PC1, It OLIVETTI PC 128S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebe Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 So, EMKAY: How will you do that, show me an example, from you, or others? http://g2f.atari8.info/big/3gfx.mode_atari_our5oft.png http://g2f.atari8.info/big/benhakker_atari_kaz.png sorry, but mixing hi and middle resolution is not useful, is possible with many restriction (left side screen ANTIC $0F, middle GTIA ex. $40, and right side ROLLED ANTIC $0E, color register shifted <> GRAPHICS 15OS) for LN better choice is native resolution, ex. ANTIC $0E (GRAPHICS 15OS - bitmap mode) or ANTIC $04 (GRAPHICS 12OS - char mode) with char invers color p.s. in VICII C64 and VBXE you can switch hi and middle res char by char, in GTIA not possible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share Posted July 6, 2009 Sorry, but I was in a public free internet place, and have to end my session, because someone wants to take my place. Here on this picture you see an advertiser from Crash Feb. 1987. this issue came on the last days of January. So, it was impossible to do the game in only a month. A8 users have many, many promises. Some only talks, some on Page6 or other magazines. System 3 announce also Bankok Knights or Tusker, no release. In this, like, probably all the others, nothing exists. But, if nothing exists, how they write the day of release within a month later. Understand now what I've trying to say to all of you? Are they mad. It was impossible to do this game in a month! Ok! Probably Anthony Wilson would do!... But even him, with his technics (The uggliest ones) would not be possible. Even a professional coder, with all the screens done on C64, all the other coding had to be done in a real A8. José Pereira. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share Posted July 6, 2009 Just see the OLIVETTI VERSION. This is what could have been a A8 version 4/5 colours in each line, DLIs to put more colours, and some objects change of places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share Posted July 6, 2009 Is there anyone around there that know about picture programs, that can do this screens in large, one by one. Just to see the resolution, and most of all the sprites. I think I like them, but want to know the resolution. Thanks. José Pereira. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share Posted July 6, 2009 Forget this OLIVETTI pictures. I saw now in old-computers. It had only 2 resol. (320 and 640 - and only 4 colours - it says CGA and only a sound generator). By the way, now see this: What you see on this picture: One screen from the ZX LN1 unreleased version. On Ninja's walkthrought, you saw a kind of artefact. A kind of green and red. I don't remember that days, in all, my friends ZXs. But ZX didn't had artefact or had? It remembers A8 games, like Molecule Man, Amaroute and Head Over Heels... Another thing I have in mind, it's that, probably could exist a black and white A8 version. And in this way, a simple port from ZX could exist. And this make sense. No ZX and no A8 versions. José Pereira. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym00 Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 (edited) Weird, I thought the Olliveti version would be just the CGA DOS version.. But apparently not.. edit:OOps, just saw Jose's post up above.. Edited July 6, 2009 by andym00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popmilo Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Have you seen last ninja on TRS-80 (COCO) ? I think its a nice example of non-hires resolution so maybe possible on Atari... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oky2000 Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Have you seen last ninja on TRS-80 (COCO) ? I think its a nice example of non-hires resolution so maybe possible on Atari... As I suspected that is a version for the CoCo3 (Tandy Color Computer 3rd generation) which was light years ahead of 'classic' TRS80 machines in capability. Approaching ST/Amiga levels not C64/A8/Amstrad. From wiki "Up to 16 simultaneous colors out of a palette of 64 displayable at one time (unless programming tricks were employed to display more)." so quite a colourful machine, and CPU can go up to 1.8mhz as well using software control. Re: the Amstrad shot, that was the first screenshot in 3 pages on a google image search for the Amstrad version and the page it was on had a link to the tape image for Caprice emulator. Ho hum I checked youtube at the time and didn't see anything. Doesn't look like 640x200 EGA to me though but if those other shots are from the Amstrad then fair enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oky2000 Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Weird, I thought the Olliveti version would be just the CGA DOS version.. But apparently not.. edit:OOps, just saw Jose's post up above.. Didn't CGA give you a choice of two different (yet equally garish and pathetic looking) CGA screen modes on all PCs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oky2000 Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Forget this OLIVETTI pictures. I saw now in old-computers. It had only 2 resol. (320 and 640 - and only 4 colours - it says CGA and only a sound generator). By the way, now see this: What you see on this picture: One screen from the ZX LN1 unreleased version. On Ninja's walkthrought, you saw a kind of artefact. A kind of green and red. I don't remember that days, in all, my friends ZXs. But ZX didn't had artefact or had? It remembers A8 games, like Molecule Man, Amaroute and Head Over Heels... Another thing I have in mind, it's that, probably could exist a black and white A8 version. And in this way, a simple port from ZX could exist. And this make sense. No ZX and no A8 versions. José Pereira. The green and red artefact is just due to the printing process and how that page was scanned, the Spectrum wasn't generating any more than two colours by its self. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym00 Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Weird, I thought the Olliveti version would be just the CGA DOS version.. But apparently not.. edit:OOps, just saw Jose's post up above.. Didn't CGA give you a choice of two different (yet equally garish and pathetic looking) CGA screen modes on all PCs? Yes, and those 2 pictures above are your 2 palettes Well there's 2 different intensity palettes available as well.. Palette 0 default background 2 — green 4 — red 6 — brown Palette 0 in high intensity default background 10 — light green 12 — light red 14 — yellow Palette 1 default background 3 — cyan 5 — magenta 7 — white Palette 1 in high intensity default background 11 — light cyan 13 — light magenta 15 — white (high intensity) There was a 3rd palette available as well, achieved by disabling the colour burst as well.. But only showed in colour on RGB monitors, Composite monitors saw it in greyscale as you would expect.. Palette 3 default background 3 — cyan 4 — red 7 — white Palette 3 in high intensity default background 11 — light cyan 12 — light red 15 — white (high intensity) It was possible to swap palettes during the frame.. Not used very often sadly on PC games, but easily achieved with the timers, but California Games used this to good effect and it really doesn't look so bad as you might expect.. Well, almost anyway.. There's also the lovely 160x102 mode as well (created by setting character height to 2 lines then filling the screen with a character the showed background on the left, and foreground on the right), where all colours can be used freely by just updating the attributes.. If you were lucky enough to play games on your CGA card on a composite monitor your eyes usually suffered less than those on their RGBi monitors See the below comparison of the difference you might enjoy What you might see on an RGBi monitor (left hand side) Vs. what you'd see on a composite monitor (right hand side).. In the both the shots above, you can very clearly see where the palette switching is taking place.. Anyway, so so so so so very far off topic right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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