Last Ninja - the making

[José Pereira]

Not an artist, just some "%" added, but fit on doors:

 

Greetings.

José Pereira.

[José Pereira]

Hi to all.

 

Someone says to me that the most important he would like to see is how it would be all that C64 Musics on A8.

That was for him the thing he would rated more.

 

 

I am trying to thond if there's any A8 turns (RMT,...)

I've thound only this one: "Central Park_Guitar..." by Emkay

 

 

 

Any of you knows is more exis?

 

 

 

 

Thanks.

Greetings.

José Pereira.

 

 

 

(P.s.- About C64 Sound/Music but out of LN's Topic: Anyone ever tried or what is your opinion in what could or not be that great Music&Speech from C64 Turbo Out Run on A8? Possible something near on our A8?

José Pereira.)

[emkay]

 

 

(P.s.- About C64 Sound/Music but out of LN's Topic: Anyone ever tried or what is your opinion in what could or not be that great Music&Speech from C64 Turbo Out Run on A8? Possible something near on our A8?

José Pereira.)

 

You know Cool Emotion?

 

http://atari.fandal.cz/detail.php?files_id=3508

 

 

it's a very interesting attempt. Sadly they didn't know about "hardsynth" , "modulations" and whatever.

[dwhyte]

Hi to all.

 

Someone says to me that the most important he would like to see is how it would be all that C64 Musics on A8.

That was for him the thing he would rated more.

 

 

I am trying to thond if there's any A8 turns (RMT,...)

I've thound only this one: "Central Park_Guitar..." by Emkay

 

 

 

Any of you knows is more exis?

 

 

 

 

Thanks.

Greetings.

José Pereira.

 

 

 

(P.s.- About C64 Sound/Music but out of LN's Topic: Anyone ever tried or what is your opinion in what could or not be that great Music&Speech from C64 Turbo Out Run on A8? Possible something near on our A8?

José Pereira.)

 

I'm sure it can be done, Jose. The Atari plays the C64 SID of this game just fine...

 

NOTE: This is just Sidplay bundled with the Last Ninja SID.

 

Last Ninja (SID).atr

[miker]

Meanwhile I've done this little piece:

lnin2_7.xex

[José Pereira]

Meanwhile I've done this little piece:

 

 

Sorry to ask for someone, but can't listen them on A8 (Emulator).

Anyone gould just play the DWhite's and Miker's on an Emulator, save Sound option and just post here a .wav file, so that I can listen them in a Public Mac where I am...

 

All day desesperatly want to listen to one and now another one!...

 

 

 

Thanks.

Greetings.

José Pereira.

[emkay]

Meanwhile I've done this little piece:

 

 

Not bad. Do you think it is possible to play a bit with the volume on the main voice?

[miker]

Well - the volume isn't constant either on 1 and on 3 voice.

 

I'll try po put there some modulations, but I have to exchange voices first (I need some time).

 

This tune is done in similar as Gridrunner one but there is 1+3 filter turned on and it plays @ 50Hz.

 

Edit: oh - definitely here is too hot (I mean the temperature, heheh)...

The main/lead voice hmm... it plays already rather loud. Otherwise it will disappear between that "synthed" sequences.

Edited July 12, 2010 by miker

[miker]

OK, let's see if there's big difference (turned on some kind of modulations in 15kHz mode).

 

Please check...

lnin2_7m.xex

Edited July 12, 2010 by miker

[emkay]

Well - the volume isn't constant either on 1 and on 3 voice.

 

I'll try po put there some modulations, but I have to exchange voices first (I need some time).

 

This tune is done in similar as Gridrunner one but there is 1+3 filter turned on and it plays @ 50Hz.

 

Edit: oh - definitely here is too hot (I mean the temperature, heheh)...

The main/lead voice hmm... it plays already rather loud. Otherwise it will disappear between that "synthed" sequences.

 

 

Modulations in 15kHz mode can easily overcome the dynamic range. The "main voice" I meant, is the melodic one. The bass sounds are ok in the 1st version. Using modulations there, needs to be rechecked on the real hardware.

[miker]

Checked already... As there in the expample above resetting of 1st voice is every 6th frame and 3rd every 48th frame the "bass" tend to "fly out" sometimes, but it also sounds interesting.

 

Attached zipped .rmt version for reference.

lninja2-7m1.zip

[emkay]

This is the handycap in RMT. Fast played notes suffer by the correction time. So still the correction can be done 1 time per envelope start.

 

here is my 1st proposal on the bass and the main voice

 

LNPROP.xex

[emkay]

The real sad things happen, if you try to add 15khz with 64 khz sounds

 

So here is an experiment at 64khz.

Filter is always on.

 

The main bass is played with generator C. The modulated channel is played with generator C aswell. Listen to the resulting harmonics.

You know that generator C always tries to sound different. But in this combination it sounds like a real soundeffekt.

The main voice uses my known modulation setting.

 

Well, you hear clearly 3 different sounds on 3 different channels.

filexpln.xex

[José Pereira]

Thanks, sounds great.

 

Let's move to... BBC:

Take it all the BBC like it is. Just add PF3 and 1DLI at PF3 on the bottom Status Panel:

 

 

 

 

 

All the LN's Engine I have in mind:

PRIOR0

P2&P3 for Screen Gfxs. colour enhancements.

PO&P1 for Ninja&Enemy weapons

PF0-Black.

5thPlayer (4Missiles): Ninja Eyes and Hands (3Missiles) / Enemy Eyes (1Missile):

LN1_stand_Front_xex wit PMs.xex

 

 

 

Not Bad.

Greetings.

José Pereira.

[José Pereira]

Thanks, sounds great.

 

Let's move to... BBC:

Take it all the BBC like it is. Just add PF3 and 1DLI at PF3 on the bottom Status Panel:

 

 

 

 

 

All the LN's Engine I have in mind:

PRIOR0

P2&P3 for Screen Gfxs. colour enhancements.

PO&P1 for Ninja&Enemy weapons

PF0-Black.

5thPlayer (4Missiles): Ninja Eyes and Hands (3Missiles) / Enemy Eyes (1Missile):

LN1_stand_Front_xex wit PMs.xex

 

 

 

Not Bad.

Greetings.

José Pereira.

[miker]

The real sad things happen, if you try to add 15khz with 64 khz sounds

 

So here is an experiment at 64khz.

Filter is always on.

 

The main bass is played with generator C. The modulated channel is played with generator C aswell. Listen to the resulting harmonics.

You know that generator C always tries to sound different. But in this combination it sounds like a real soundeffekt.

The main voice uses my known modulation setting.

 

Well, you hear clearly 3 different sounds on 3 different channels.

 

 

Ok. manipulated it a bit. Put the "drums" a bit lower and minimalize that "bleemping" effect as well as put some extra notes in bassline.

Still don't like two first lines of endsequence too much... I'd rather keep this song in 15kHz because of some strange things here. But it's just my opinion.

lnprop_m.xex

Edited July 13, 2010 by miker

[miker]

Meanwhile my another 15kHz version with changing volume on both modulated channels.

lnin2_7m4.xex

[José Pereira]

Hi people.

 

Just wondering in BBC version...

Probably some possibility untill a real one based on the C64 comes

 

 

I remember to read somewhere an interview with the BBC version

coder.

He said it is done in 32Kb.

 

And I was thinking in the Gfxs. on A8.

They can be directly port and PF3 colour added.

 

 

But BBC uses probably a 256Chars on each Charset.

A8 it's 128, so it will probably turned into a 3Lines=1Charset

7/8Kb.

PMs. on A8 are in single Line 2048 (2Kb.) on each Screen.

 

All Game:

7/8Kb. _ Charsets

2Kb. _ PMs.

 

 

And now I was thinking about PMs. "data".

P0&1, 4Missiles if they're to be used on Ninja&Enemy are the same in all the Game.

But P2&P3 change data, xPositions, sizes, colours (Screen Colours)

What this will add to the size of Memory?

Anyone knows?

 

 

________________________________________________________

 

 

 

Another thing I am just thinking:

BBC uses a kind of "Status Area" like C64.

As I said all can be directly ported from BBC and add 5th colour, but if it was a way of get a colour more on the left side Status Panel.

 

With Backgr., PF0, PF1, PF2 we can carefully get not a bad INHO on "Found" and "Using" Objects Area (strange that they don't put "Found" also).

But some objects would need another colour.

I am seeing Videos and I think we can have the Objects as 1Char Line and have one of their colours as PF3.

If this PF3 wouldn't be at multiples of "nº8 Lines_Bad Lines) would be possible a "GED" change of PF3 colour here.

 

Status Panel:

Lines:PF2&Backgr. / Black-PF0 / Object:Change PF3 / Lines again (the same: Backgr.&PF2)

 

 

From what I've read many times, changes on the right are more possible/accurate (more cycles...).

In an LN, Static Screen and just PF3 7pixels Lines change under "Using"

and just more

PF3 7pixels Lines under "Holding"

 

And this is just sometimes / some Screens /some Objects

 

Is it possible?

Any troubles?

 

 

 

Thanks for your attention.

Greetings.

José Pereira.

[Heaven/TQA]

does have the BBC a charmode or is it anyway bitmap? if so... your char limited does not matter...

[emkay]

 

Ok. manipulated it a bit. Put the "drums" a bit lower and minimalize that "bleemping" effect as well as put some extra notes in bassline.

Still don't like two first lines of endsequence too much... I'd rather keep this song in 15kHz because of some strange things here. But it's just my opinion.

 

Seems, I'd need some recording of the "filexpln" Filter experiment tune. Because you really removed all goodies .

Possibly it's only here in the emulation "perfect".

I have generator "C" sweep FX, some FX were played in the bass range that were needed to finish almost all LN tunes. The "bleeping" sound was also intended, because it fills the missing range and plays note correct to the bass and the main voice.

 

hm....

 

Your edit even killed the floating of the main voice.

 

It's a sad thing that POKEY only has the 8 bit range and you cannot use the two clockings at the same time. In the past , my demonstrations used special filter settings in the 15kHz mode to play the notes in the correct range. But no one liked them. possibly you find a way ?

[Rybags]

BBC only has one character mode - the Teletext one, so the game would have been done in bitmap on that machine.

[_The Doctor__]

Not to put to fine a point on things but everyone said you could not have digitized sound at the same time screens moved with objects and game play, this was believed by everyone, in fact when I once mentioned such a thing everyone came down on me hard....

I no longer had the proof.... and you know what Sheddy proved I was correct with Space Harrier. And then that was used for tempest! Because He taught himself and had re-learned on his own a forgotten thing. Whatever makes it possible. I like the ideas the programmers/coders are presenting. The artwork may not work in the end but at least they can be converted or used as an experience to build on. Having been a beta player tester for so long I have seen many things that never came to be. Canned by people who did not like what they were seeing and the incredible routines driving the game were lost forever when it could have been used to help other endeavors. btw the a8 was indeed used heavily in tron for sound. Who has the software? Lost! No one has it.... who knows it might turn up one day. Or like in example of Space Harrier someone may rediscover the tricks to do it and we will be blown away again. So I say keep drawing in all the different format you can find, as the coders here have already started thinking about how to handle the game mechanics, logic and tricks to get around issues... I think it is inspiring to see another person working hard on the idea as well as getting others to think about how it could be done.

I would like to express my personal thank you to the guys discussing how to get the ninja to move without being decapitated, it those kinds of suggestion and thinking that make stuff happen!

 

 

 

[José Pereira]

Hi, just to show a new idea of the LN1 Status Area.

 

 

Off course need to colour Playing Area, but not important right now.

The Status Area will also have more things and PMs. to add colour, but you'll get an idea:

 

Attachment:

 

colagem3a_g2f_xex.png [ 5.12 KiB | Viewed 1 time ]

 

 

( all my mind, don't worry... )

 

Have to go now.

Bye.

José Pereira.

[Heaven/TQA]

Not to put to fine a point on things but everyone said you could not have digitized sound at the same time screens moved with objects and game play, this was believed by everyone, in fact when I once mentioned such a thing everyone came down on me hard....

I no longer had the proof.... and you know what Sheddy proved I was correct with Space Harrier. And then that was used for tempest! Because He taught himself and had re-learned on his own a forgotten thing. Whatever makes it possible. I like the ideas the programmers/coders are presenting. The artwork may not work in the end but at least they can be converted or used as an experience to build on. Having been a beta player tester for so long I have seen many things that never came to be. Canned by people who did not like what they were seeing and the incredible routines driving the game were lost forever when it could have been used to help other endeavors. btw the a8 was indeed used heavily in tron for sound. Who has the software? Lost! No one has it.... who knows it might turn up one day. Or like in example of Space Harrier someone may rediscover the tricks to do it and we will be blown away again. So I say keep drawing in all the different format you can find, as the coders here have already started thinking about how to handle the game mechanics, logic and tricks to get around issues... I think it is inspiring to see another person working hard on the idea as well as getting others to think about how it could be done.

I would like to express my personal thank you to the guys discussing how to get the ninja to move without being decapitated, it those kinds of suggestion and thinking that make stuff happen!

 

well said... esp. Space Harrier etc caused to have digi speech & sounds in Gridrunner.

[emkay]

Hi, just to show a new idea of the LN1 Status Area.

 

 

Off course need to colour Playing Area, but not important right now.

The Status Area will also have more things and PMs. to add colour, but you'll get an idea:

 

Attachment:

 

colagem3a_g2f_xex.png [ 5.12 KiB | Viewed 1 time ]

 

 

( all my mind, don't worry... )

 

Have to go now.

Bye.

José Pereira.

 

 

If you're going to use this less colours, it would be better to chose hires.