Colecovision Joust

[+Yurkie]

I saw in some old threads, talk of adding sound to the Colecovision Joust Prototype. I was hoping to renew some interest in this.

[newcoleco]

If I'm not mistaken, there is in fact a prototype version of Joust with sounds, something made in the past after the prototype version we did put in cartridge since the year 2001. convincing the guy who has the prototype may be impossible because I don't know for sure if this prototype with sounds does exist and who is this person who have it.

 

About adding sounds in a game, it's not that easy as hacking to change some graphics. But, if we can manage to disassemble the rom file, someone with good knowledge about the sound chip or the bios sound routines will do the job.

[Pixelboy]

If I'm not mistaken, there is in fact a prototype version of Joust with sounds, something made in the past after the prototype version we did put in cartridge since the year 2001. convincing the guy who has the prototype may be impossible because I don't know for sure if this prototype with sounds does exist and who is this person who have it.

 

About adding sounds in a game, it's not that easy as hacking to change some graphics. But, if we can manage to disassemble the rom file, someone with good knowledge about the sound chip or the bios sound routines will do the job.

Actually, it's slightly easier than you might think, because there's someone on this board (Dutchman2000) who has the sound data for Joust in a stand-alone data file. So it's just a matter of integrating the sound data in the dissasembled ROM. Check the other Joust thread in the "ColecoVision Programming" sub-forum for more details.

 

I have to agree with you though, even if the sound data is available, adding it to the exiting prototype ROM will not be a 5-minute job...

[+Yurkie]

If I'm not mistaken, there is in fact a prototype version of Joust with sounds, something made in the past after the prototype version we did put in cartridge since the year 2001. convincing the guy who has the prototype may be impossible because I don't know for sure if this prototype with sounds does exist and who is this person who have it.

 

About adding sounds in a game, it's not that easy as hacking to change some graphics. But, if we can manage to disassemble the rom file, someone with good knowledge about the sound chip or the bios sound routines will do the job.

Actually, it's slightly easier than you might think, because there's someone on this board (Dutchman2000) who has the sound data for Joust in a stand-alone data file. So it's just a matter of integrating the sound data in the dissasembled ROM. Check the other Joust thread in the "ColecoVision Programming" sub-forum for more details.

 

I have to agree with you though, even if the sound data is available, adding it to the exiting prototype ROM will not be a 5-minute job...

 

I sent that guy a message. I play the Joust Prototype rom on my multicart once in a while but, it is not that fun with no sound.

I was thinking it would be really cool to make a Joust cartridge using an Atarisoft case with a label like the ones for Galaxian, Centipede, and Defender.

I have an extra Centipede I would sacrifice.

[retroillucid]

It is true that Joust has been very well translated by AtariSoft

It's also true that playing it without sounds sucks

 

If that guy release the source code for the sound, I'm pretty sure someone will grab it and will finished the Joust proto.

I know it can be pain in the ass to do it, but someone got to do it

[+Yurkie]

It is true that Joust has been very well translated by AtariSoft

It's also true that playing it without sounds sucks

 

If that guy release the source code for the sound, I'm pretty sure someone will grab it and will finished the Joust proto.

I know it can be pain in the ass to do it, but someone got to do it

 

 

Keep your fingers crossed everyone!

 

I got a response to my initial message and was told the code was written out on paper. I then asked, if he would be willing to post scans of the code on this thread. Saying if the code is posted, then he has done everything he can do.

[Pixelboy]

Keep your fingers crossed everyone!

 

I got a response to my initial message and was told the code was written out on paper. I then asked, if he would be willing to post scans of the code on this thread. Saying if the code is posted, then he has done everything he can do.

Let's just hope the data is not in an undocumented proprietary format...

[Dutchman2000]

Keep your fingers crossed everyone!

 

I got a response to my initial message and was told the code was written out on paper. I then asked, if he would be willing to post scans of the code on this thread. Saying if the code is posted, then he has done everything he can do.

Let's just hope the data is not in an undocumented proprietary format...

 

 

I'll try and scan the source code soon. Or I'll see if I can type it out.

[Ikrananka]

If I'm not mistaken, there is in fact a prototype version of Joust with sounds, something made in the past after the prototype version we did put in cartridge since the year 2001. convincing the guy who has the prototype may be impossible because I don't know for sure if this prototype with sounds does exist and who is this person who have it.

 

About adding sounds in a game, it's not that easy as hacking to change some graphics. But, if we can manage to disassemble the rom file, someone with good knowledge about the sound chip or the bios sound routines will do the job.

Actually, it's slightly easier than you might think, because there's someone on this board (Dutchman2000) who has the sound data for Joust in a stand-alone data file. So it's just a matter of integrating the sound data in the dissasembled ROM. Check the other Joust thread in the "ColecoVision Programming" sub-forum for more details.

 

I have to agree with you though, even if the sound data is available, adding it to the exiting prototype ROM will not be a 5-minute job...

 

I sent that guy a message. I play the Joust Prototype rom on my multicart once in a while but, it is not that fun with no sound.

I was thinking it would be really cool to make a Joust cartridge using an Atarisoft case with a label like the ones for Galaxian, Centipede, and Defender.

I have an extra Centipede I would sacrifice.

Actually AtariAge did produce and sell carts of Joust, Pac-Man and Dig Dug with the Atarisoft label for a while but had to stop at the request of Atari (I believe this was around 2004). As well as these carts I also own repro boxes made by Marc Oberhäuser - check them out at http://www.freelancer-games.com/atari-us.php?start=80

Edited July 4, 2009 by Ikrananka

[Bruce Tomlin]

I've seen enough of the Coleco standard sound format that I should be able to tell how useful it is when I see it. (I even made my own driver for it when I ported my RPG code to Genesis.)

 

If someone posts the scans somewhere, I'll do what I can to get it OCRed. Has anyone disassembled Joust yet or should I try to make a re-assemblable version?

Edited July 5, 2009 by Bruce Tomlin

[Pixelboy]

I've seen enough of the Coleco standard sound format that I should be able to tell how useful it is when I see it. (I even made my own driver for it when I ported my RPG code to Genesis.)

 

If someone posts the scans somewhere, I'll do what I can to get it OCRed. Has anyone disassembled Joust yet or should I try to make a re-assemblable version?

I know Eduardo may have done some work on that some years ago, but I'm not sure how far he went into it, if he actually did anything at all. I'll check with him. Aside from Eduardo, I'm not currently aware of anyone else who may have disassembled the ROM.

[Pixelboy]

Actually AtariAge did produce and sell carts of Joust, Pac-Man and Dig Dug with the Atarisoft label for a while but had to stop at the request of Atari (I believe this was around 2004). As well as these carts I also own repro boxes made by Marc Oberhäuser - check them out at http://www.freelancer-games.com/atari-us.php?start=80

I own copies of those carts as well. The cart labels look like Atarisoft labels, but they were actually designed to fit on regular Coleco cartridge casings, not Atarisoft carts. In other words, they were made as single stickers, not two-piece stickers (like those on Defender, Centipede and Galaxian carts).

[opcode]

I've seen enough of the Coleco standard sound format that I should be able to tell how useful it is when I see it. (I even made my own driver for it when I ported my RPG code to Genesis.)

 

If someone posts the scans somewhere, I'll do what I can to get it OCRed. Has anyone disassembled Joust yet or should I try to make a re-assemblable version?

I know Eduardo may have done some work on that some years ago, but I'm not sure how far he went into it, if he actually did anything at all. I'll check with him. Aside from Eduardo, I'm not currently aware of anyone else who may have disassembled the ROM.

 

Actually I never touched the thing. Albert asked me to finish the game years ago but, you know, I would rather prefer to remake the game from scratch...

[newcoleco]

Actually I never touched the thing. Albert asked me to finish the game years ago but, you know, I would rather prefer to remake the game from scratch...

Wait a second... The game is already done for the ColecoVision and quite well made, but just need sounds... to make it better. I do respect the work of a programmer making his own stuff, in his way, in his vision... your vision is our vision, colecovision... it's something I do myself all the time with my projects. But here, we are just talking about a game already made... only need sounds. Just need to add sounds... and the game will be better... that's the message of this thread, right? so, we are talking about hacking a rom file.

 

So why would you prefer to re-program it from scratch? That's the part I don't understand from your answer.

 

Note 1 : What I do like the most about this Atarisoft game is the way it uses dynamic generated charcarters to simulate more sprites "on the fly", making it (based on my gaming experience) a free sprite flickering game... which is awesome... and it runs fast enough to be playable and enjoyable.

 

Note 2 : Long time ago, before Space Invaders Collection was released, I did a hack of this ColecoVision Joust ROM file to add a bitmap title screen, just for fun. At that time, I wasn't a master of assembler coding, I still don't consider myself as a master in z80 assembler, but I did make it. For that, I did use the debugger of tiny-m.e.s.s. emulator to find out the execution path I needed to know, then put my codes at the end of the rom file to call it at the begginning of the execution path I find out. If I was able to add a title screen back then, any z80 guru can certainly add sounds without re-programming entirely this game.

 

Before someone reply to my message here, by probably making me say something I didn't say... I'm just pointing out here that it's feasable to hack the rom and add the sounds in it, specially if you are a guru like opcode in z80 assembly language. And I don't understand why he sould consider re-programing the game instead of just adding sounds in it... which I guess it's to program the game in his own style, which is something I respect, but simply don't understand for this case.

 

As soon as the scans for the sounds are done, I will want to check it out and maybe give it a try.

Edited July 5, 2009 by newcoleco

[+Yurkie]

Actually I never touched the thing. Albert asked me to finish the game years ago but, you know, I would rather prefer to remake the game from scratch...

Wait a second... The game is already done for the ColecoVision and quite well made, but just need sounds... to make it better. I do respect the work of a programmer making his own stuff, in his way, in his vision... your vision is our vision, colecovision... it's something I do myself all the time with my projects. But here, we are just talking about a game already made... only need sounds. Just need to add sounds... and the game will be better... that's the message of this thread, right? so, we are talking about hacking a rom file.

 

So why would you prefer to re-program it from scratch? That's the part I don't understand from your answer.

 

Note 1 : What I do like the most about this Atarisoft game is the way it uses dynamic generated charcarters to simulate more sprites "on the fly", making it (based on my gaming experience) a free sprite flickering game... which is awesome... and it runs fast enough to be playable and enjoyable.

 

Note 2 : Long time ago, before Space Invaders Collection was released, I did a hack of this ColecoVision Joust ROM file to add a bitmap title screen, just for fun. At that time, I wasn't a master of assembler coding, I still don't consider myself as a master in z80 assembler, but I did make it. For that, I did use the debugger of tiny-m.e.s.s. emulator to find out the execution path I needed to know, then put my codes at the end of the rom file to call it at the begginning of the execution path I find out. If I was able to add a title screen back then, any z80 guru can certainly add sounds without re-programming entirely this game.

 

Before someone reply to my message here, by probably making me say something I didn't say... I'm just pointing out here that it's feasable to hack the rom and add the sounds in it, specially if you are a guru like opcode in z80 assembly language. And I don't understand why he sould consider re-programing the game instead of just adding sounds in it... which I guess it's to program the game in his own style, which is something I respect, but simply don't understand for this case.

 

As soon as the scans for the sounds are done, I will want to check it out and maybe give it a try.

 

I absolutely agree 100% with you newcoleco. Hopefully dutchman2000 will scan and post the source code for the sound.

[Dutchman2000]

Guys-

 

The code is just the sound tables for the different sounds. Would that be useful for someone?

 

Scanning it might be problematic so I will try to type it in a text file.

[Pixelboy]

The code is just the sound tables for the different sounds. Would that be useful for someone?

The experts who have volunteered to examine this sound data must actually see it, in order to decode it and see if (and how) it can be integrated in the rest of the software. Either the sound data is compatible with the ColecoVision BIOS sound routines, or a custom sound player will have to be written. Either way, your efforts to transmit the data to us will be very appreciated.

 

Scanning it might be problematic so I will try to type it in a text file.

Alright, but please be careful not to make any mistakes. Double-checking (and even triple-checking) is essential here.

 

Thanks again!

[opcode]

Actually I never touched the thing. Albert asked me to finish the game years ago but, you know, I would rather prefer to remake the game from scratch...

Wait a second... The game is already done for the ColecoVision and quite well made, but just need sounds... to make it better. I do respect the work of a programmer making his own stuff, in his way, in his vision... your vision is our vision, colecovision... it's something I do myself all the time with my projects. But here, we are just talking about a game already made... only need sounds. Just need to add sounds... and the game will be better... that's the message of this thread, right? so, we are talking about hacking a rom file.

 

So why would you prefer to re-program it from scratch? That's the part I don't understand from your answer.

 

Note 1 : What I do like the most about this Atarisoft game is the way it uses dynamic generated charcarters to simulate more sprites "on the fly", making it (based on my gaming experience) a free sprite flickering game... which is awesome... and it runs fast enough to be playable and enjoyable.

 

Note 2 : Long time ago, before Space Invaders Collection was released, I did a hack of this ColecoVision Joust ROM file to add a bitmap title screen, just for fun. At that time, I wasn't a master of assembler coding, I still don't consider myself as a master in z80 assembler, but I did make it. For that, I did use the debugger of tiny-m.e.s.s. emulator to find out the execution path I needed to know, then put my codes at the end of the rom file to call it at the begginning of the execution path I find out. If I was able to add a title screen back then, any z80 guru can certainly add sounds without re-programming entirely this game.

 

Before someone reply to my message here, by probably making me say something I didn't say... I'm just pointing out here that it's feasable to hack the rom and add the sounds in it, specially if you are a guru like opcode in z80 assembly language. And I don't understand why he sould consider re-programing the game instead of just adding sounds in it... which I guess it's to program the game in his own style, which is something I respect, but simply don't understand for this case.

 

But it’s actually pretty simple: from my point-of-view there are two types of projects, the ones that I am or could be interested in and the ones I am not interested. Porting Joust from scratch is the former, adding sound to existing port is the later.

You see, I am not saying it is a bad idea. I just don't want to do that myself. Furthermore, I am really busy with many different projects and the last thing I want at this point is another project.

Finally, adding sound to a game may or may not be an easy task. That depends if the original programmer already included the calls to each different sound. Suppose Joust has 20 different sounds. How do you know the location in the code where each sound should be activated and start playing? You would need to completely disassemble the whole game, study the code and look for the routines that should trigger each sound. Far from impossible, but could be a lot of work…

[Bruce Tomlin]

I've been disassembling it, and it doesn't use anything from the ROM. (and to use the ROM, the usage of RAM would have to be changed) So whether the sound data uses the ROM's format or not, the ROM driver can't be used.

 

Maybe there's driver code in these listings that need to be scanned.

 

So as before, until they are scanned and made available, nothing will happen. (notice I said nothing about OCR, since anyone can do that)

 

The ball is now squarely in the court of whoever has the listings. If you want this to happen, you know what to do.

Edited July 6, 2009 by Bruce Tomlin

[newcoleco]

Let me speculate about what I assume about the effort to add sounds in Joust. Please not that I do this without seeing any listing yet.

 

Remark #1 : So far, we found 8 games made by Atarisoft for the ColecoVision : Centipede, Defender, Dig Dug, Galaxian, Jungle Hunt, Matt Patrol, Pac-Man and Joust.

 

Remark #2 : Based on my experience in video game programming, for fun and as a job, sound routines are most of the time always the same, and almost never change from one project to another. If we got the worst case, which is no sound routine at all in Joust, we can find the routines in another game by Atarisoft.

 

Remark #3 : About where to put the calls to start sounds, we have clues : 1 - the arcade game we can try and figuring out which action or event is needed to start each particular sound, 2 - other Coleco games made by Atarisoft can give us a pattern about how and where they add sounds in their game projects.

 

Remark #4 : The rest of the work should be trials and errors, testing, tweaking and fixing problems.

 

The process to add sounds in Joust, based on these remarks, may takes one or two months during free time, or four days in a row for someone who have plenty of free time and experience in z80 programming, and a partially commented listing of the game. Again, this is speculation, but I really think programming from scratch will takes more effort.

[Bruce Tomlin]

Whether it takes two months or two days is irrelevant as long as we don't have the sound data.

[newcoleco]

Making new sounds can be an option too... I mean, if really we can't use the sounds we are talking about in previous messages here, we got enough experience to make our own sounds if we want to.

[Tempest]

Let me speculate about what I assume about the effort to add sounds in Joust. Please not that I do this without seeing any listing yet.

 

Remark #1 : So far, we found 8 games made by Atarisoft for the ColecoVision : Centipede, Defender, Dig Dug, Galaxian, Jungle Hunt, Matt Patrol, Pac-Man and Joust.

Doesn't Missile Command exist as a prototype as well? Just a title screen, but still I thought it existed.

 

Tempest

[retroillucid]

Let me speculate about what I assume about the effort to add sounds in Joust. Please not that I do this without seeing any listing yet.

 

Remark #1 : So far, we found 8 games made by Atarisoft for the ColecoVision : Centipede, Defender, Dig Dug, Galaxian, Jungle Hunt, Matt Patrol, Pac-Man and Joust.

Doesn't Missile Command exist as a prototype as well? Just a title screen, but still I thought it existed.

 

Tempest

 

Missile Command ?!! ... I was not aware of this !!

[Dutchman2000]

There's also a Ms. Pac-Man prototype for the CV. The only person I know that has it is reluctant to have it dumped. It also might be stuck in a debugging mode as all it does when played is show a martini glass moving through the maze. I have the sound tables for this also.