RevEng Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 There are a lot of 2600 homebrew efforts are based on commercial characters and wind up being grey legally as a result. I understand why the authors decided to pick that path; it provides instant character recognition and a rich backstory to pick game elements from. But it's unfortunate when lawyers eventually come knocking and you wind up with something that you can't distribute. Plus you're piggybacking off someone else's hard work (marketing, character design, etc.) who doesn't want you to. I thought it would be a cool project if the Atari 2600 dev community could come up with a "homebrew" character that coders could base games around - similar to how the Linux folk have Tux - but hopefully cooler and with a richer backstory and related characters. This could also provide those creative types who like to "design-and-suggest" games a different way of contributing to the community. Contributions could run the gambit... written descriptions, cartoon representations, stories, etc. Now to kick off the thought process, here are some random ideas: possible character names: Fuji, Go, Stella it might be useful to crib and update characters/stories from existing mythologies. eg. Norse, North American, Japanese, Greek, ... Anyway, thought I'd put the idea out here and see what people thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e1will Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 How about Rex the Rectangle? It's an interesting idea. I don't know how quick developers would be to center a game around the character, but he/she'd almost certainly get some cameo appearances, kind of like the way the Galaxian shows up in Pac-Man, Dig Dug, etc. --Will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+batari Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 If we're limited to original games, that actually rules out a lot of them, such as Ladybug, Thrust, Medieval Mayhem, and all of Manuel's titles. Too bad the store is closed, otherwise one could easily whip up a list of qualifying titles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 I like Evil Otto (and his nice little brother Toto ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted August 3, 2009 Author Share Posted August 3, 2009 Otto is cool, but he's already part of the berzerk trademarks. That's the kinda thing I'm advocating we avoid. How about Rex the Rectangle? You were kidding, but a square character isn't out of place either. Call him Rez or Player0, and you have the beginnings of a backstory for a supporting or minor character. I think the willingness for someone to pick up the character(s) in their game is completely proportional to the utility it will provide. An original backstory can suggest unique play elements to the right game designer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emehr Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 (edited) How about "Double A"? (not the battery, though it evokes one). AA being Atari Age, of course. That could just be the name. Not sure what the character would look like. Maybe he (or she) is a double "A"gent? (OK, I'm at work, the creative juices aren't exactly flowin' here! ) [EDIT: And since the character's a double agent, he would naturally fit into any game!] Edited August 3, 2009 by Emehr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrok Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 (edited) There are a lot of 2600 homebrew efforts are based on commercial characters and wind up being grey legally as a result. I understand why the authors decided to pick that path; it provides instant character recognition and a rich backstory to pick game elements from. But it's unfortunate when lawyers eventually come knocking and you wind up with something that you can't distribute. Plus you're piggybacking off someone else's hard work (marketing, character design, etc.) who doesn't want you to. I thought it would be a cool project if the Atari 2600 dev community could come up with a "homebrew" character that coders could base games around - similar to how the Linux folk have Tux - but hopefully cooler and with a richer backstory and related characters. This could also provide those creative types who like to "design-and-suggest" games a different way of contributing to the community. Contributions could run the gambit... written descriptions, cartoon representations, stories, etc. It's an interesting idea, but I'm not really sure if it solves the problem of people being creative about their games. I mean, when i think about my favorite Atari games, the back story is pretty much an afterthought. Hasn't everyone read the back story for Yar's Revenge? It's pure insanity. I doubt they started with the story and then made a game about it. Leaving aside genuine ports (which are a totally different animal), I when I look at the homebrew and programming forums I see a lot of project announcements that seem to be saying: Hey, do you like (insert copywritten thing here)? If so, then I'm going to write an Atari game about (copywritten thing) because you like both (copywritten thing) and Atari games and will therefore buy it regardless of how good or how bad it is. I'm not sure how different that is from how megolothic publishers are approaching (and, in my opinion, ruining) video game development today. They look for built-in audiences and demographics and then plop out a licensed game, figuring that they'll sell a few units just based on the license alone. And if we somehow create a generic Atari Homebrew character/story/world that becomes popular, won't the same thing happen, where people shove the character into games just so they can say "This is a Rez the Rectangle Game and you like Rez the Rectangle stuff and will therefore buy it?" Edited August 3, 2009 by jrok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Rogue Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 It's an interesting idea, but I'm not really sure if it solves the problem of people being creative about their games. I mean, when i think about my favorite Atari games, the back story is pretty much an afterthought. Hasn't everyone read the back story for Yar's Revenge? It's pure insanity. I doubt they started with the story and then made a game about it. No, they probably started with a little herb first, then the story, then the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 (edited) Besides, there is only one reason to design a homebrew game around copyrighted/trademarked images or gameplay...and that is to see if it can be done. Without that, there is no inspiration to do it in the first place. * enters the alternate reality generator... Somebody worried about Ladybug being CD'ed before it can be started...fine, there's no 2600 Ladybug. Scared of Infogrammes getting all worked up about their Warlords game? >poof< No Medieval Mayhem. There might be a lot less games, it seems. A generic "do as you please" character wouldn't have changed anything in such examples. And as wgungfu illustrated...with anybody doing anything with a homebrew mascot, IMO it wouldn't be long until it became a pathetic joke. Like GM's quality control cat Howie Makum. The cameo idea is a good one, tho. It just shouldn't overshadow a project...regardless of how "unethical" it is to attempt something. What was the last project that got fired a CD? Edited August 3, 2009 by Nukey Shay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrok Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 (edited) Besides, there is only one reason to design a homebrew game around copyrighted/trademarked images or gameplay...and that is to see if it can be done. Without that, there is no inspiration to do it in the first place. Right. I mean, that's the only good reason to do it. Something like "Knight Rider 2600" would be the obvious counterexample, where a madman thinks he can tap multiple collector markets by stealing names, ideas and likenesses from a crummy TV show about a talking car. But there is probably an in-between ground too, where someone isn't trying to create a direct port, but still "borrows" certain ideas from a successful intellectual property -- whether names, likenesses, music, gameplay elements or some combination thereof. I get the feeling that most of these are Knight Rider-style projects that would never materialize anyway, but some would. In the case of some sort of "open-source(?)" creative well that developers could draw from, I'm just not really sure what the usefulness would be. If we were talking about some sort of royalty-free collection of graphics, music, etc, it might make some sort of sense, since not every programmer is going to have an easy time coming up with original attractive sprites or sounds. But if its just about mapping out stories and characters that developers can use to "brand" their games, I'm not sure if its all that helpful for the 2600. The stories for most 2600 games could fit on an index card. I mean, did you ever read the "back story" for Dark Cavern? It ain't "Proust." Edited August 3, 2009 by jrok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandmountainslim Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Too bad the store is closed, otherwise one could easily whip up a list of qualifying titles. Temporarily closed Wp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 (edited) _ Edited August 4, 2009 by BigO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted August 3, 2009 Author Share Posted August 3, 2009 (edited) Besides, there is only one reason to design a homebrew game around copyrighted/trademarked images or gameplay...and that is to see if it can be done. Without that, there is no inspiration to do it in the first place. I'm not convinced that's the only reason. I think at times people are wanting to come up with an original idea for a game, but simply lack the creativity to come up with one unless they begin with someone else's stuff as a seed. I'm not thinking so much "I'm gonna make a Ladybug port" (which is fine, and a great goal if you're willing to risk the C&D) so much as "I'm going to make an Itchy&Scratchy game". (An invented example. There are plenty of real-life ones, but I'm not interested in pointing fingers.) jrok, a mascot definitely doesn't solve the problem of getting game creators to be creative. I don't think there's anything to solve that. Either someone understands they would do better to just repeating cliches, or they don't. (aside from ports.) I do think a homebrew mascot can provide an alternative to those that use (copywritten thing) as a crutch because they can't come up with a starting idea. Using the characters and environment in (copywritten thing), they go ahead and add scenarios that will work in a 2600 game. There can be creativity in that last step, and it would be a valid approach if the original thing wasn't copywritten and trademarked. Realistically, I'm not expecting people to say "oooh, a rez the rectangle game", just like nobody says "oooh, a Tux the Penguin game" either. The game has to stand or fall on it's own merits, no doubt. Yes, Tux games are sometimes a joke. Other times they are quite good. Sometimes he even serves as a nice recognizeable character to act as a stand-in when someone decides they want make a game with gameplay similar to Mario Kart or Puzzle Bobble and avoid C&Ds. If we were talking about some sort of royalty-free collection of graphics, music, etc, it might make some sort of sense, since not every programmer is going to have an easy time coming up with original attractive sprites or sounds. Totally where I'm going with this. Emehr, I like your idea of incorporating Atari Age in some way, though I'm not sold on the Double-A name yet. It does seem to conjure up a walking battery! Edited August 3, 2009 by RevEng Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+batari Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 (edited) I would guess it has to be an animal-like or humanoid figure if he/she/it is to be in a series of games. It occurred to me that I could use the rarity database to list homebrews. The following are created by AA members, arguably free of copyright issues, and have characters who are animals or humanoid (and I could be wrong about this list!) Xmas titles excluded. The list is amazingly short: Elevators Amiss Fall Down Gingerbread Man Hunchy Gosub (octopus) Melbourne Tatty Pirate from Phantom II/Pirate Qb Skeleton Though I should say that Rez the Rectangle would make for easy programming. Edited August 3, 2009 by batari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrok Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Well, it definitely is an interesting thought experiment. In that spirit, I'll throw my hat in... How about: Ari Ant He's a humanoid worker ant. Being a polymath day-laborer by trade, Ari has many different jobs... which would therefore translate to many different kinds of gameplay. Like an ant, he is both very simple and tremendously complex. Also, his name is an anagram of "Atarian", and his initials are AA I'll come up with some mockups if anyone likes it. Cheers, Jarod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Elevators Amiss = Spy's Demise. And wasn't Hunchy based on an arcade game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+batari Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Elevators Amiss = Spy's Demise. And wasn't Hunchy based on an arcade game? One of them (Hunchy/Hunchy II) is original, I think. Quasimodo is a public domain character, no matter what Disney says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Hunchback is a game from '83/84 :- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunchback_(video_game) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 I wasn't referring to the character...but this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+batari Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 That makes Hunchy the adaption, and Hunchy II the original game (if one can argue that the game is based solely on the novel.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Interesting...I didn't know that the arcade was originally intended to be Robin Hood :!: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted August 3, 2009 Author Share Posted August 3, 2009 How about: Ari Ant Nice... I really like the meanings behind the name! I'm not entirely sure that an ant is the most cuddly of mascots compared to a panda, monkey, hunchback, or whatever. I'm not sure that a mascot has to be cuddly to be popular either, but it might help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrok Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 (edited) How about: Ari Ant Nice... I really like the meanings behind the name! I'm not entirely sure that an ant is the most cuddly of mascots compared to a panda, monkey, hunchback, or whatever. I'm not sure that a mascot has to be cuddly to be popular either, but it might help. Yeah, but... I mean a hedgehog isn't necessarily cuddly. Neither is a plumber I think cuddly is all in the artwork and imagining. Pixar did a pretty good job of making an earwig/cockroach(?) cuddly in "Wall-E", and they didnt even anthropomorphize it. In my mind, Ari is a good egg that anyone would want to have a beer with. He's a smart, hard-working, resourceful guy with a never say die attitude. No matter how great the challenge, he always seems to find the solution. Most importantly, his design hasn't changed much over millions of years, and his species is still doing well Edited August 3, 2009 by jrok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Maybe the mascot can be the Atari Age logo with eyes and a mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potatohead Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 (edited) Introducing SPECK! No! You clod, not Shrek, SPECK! That's right! He's been around, along with his sister Speckls, for years. That's longer than some of you have even been alive! Wanna meet him? > . < There you go! He's a great guy. Normally likes to run just one color, but on occasion, he's been seen with a few, but don't tell. >*< His sister has a bit more going on. She loves colors, but out of respect for plain old Speck, keeps it all pretty lean. If you look closely, you can see speck in a ton of games, and in just about every role you can imagine! Ball, adventurer, dot, bullet, star, you name it! Speck has been there and done that! In fact, every other character owes their very life to speck! Without him, there are NO characters, but for a few odd ones created with the family uncle len. He's really a point to point kind of guy. Rumor has it, he can be found some of the older places where only the few and the brave even know who he is. Here's a recent picture: > _ < Speck and Len are the pioneers! Be sure and watch for them on a game system near you! Copyright AA membership 2009 Edited August 4, 2009 by potatohead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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