What N64 could Jaguar have handled?

[kool kitty89]

Not to threadpiss but to 'handle' a game it must look identical and play at the same speed IMO.

 

So making Starfox 64/Lylat Wars cut down to look like the unreleased SuperFX2 Starfox2 from the SNES isn't really an option.

 

That's exaggerating a tad as Cybermorph was considerably more graphically advanced than Star Fox 2, still I see your point, but that doesn't mean a game won't approximate the equivelent N64 game. (cut out a lot of the polygon models, do terrain with Voxels, make taseful use of "sprites" and 2D effects, and finally use apealing gouraud shaded, decalled polygon models where necessary)

 

Personally I didn't like the N64, the Saturn and PS1 were superior machines once you take away the Silicon Graphics hype.

 

Yeah, though one of the bigest cripling factors was Nintendo not supporting the programmable microcode feature. (and not pushing the "Turbo 3D" microcode, at least for games that would benefit from it, instead of discouraging it) I think the way the RDRAM was configured also caused problems, high latency in particular, but also not having the full (562.5 MB/s) bandwidth available to either CPU or RCP.

 

That and use of cartridges (though this is a double edged issue and was even sometimes taken advantage of to workaround limitations), overall it was probably a detriment though, particularly in the sense of deturring 3rd parties (for both storage limitations and cost reasons) and high cost of the games themselves for consumers.

 

 

 

As to on-cart coprocessor idea, interesting, but I think a single add-on device would be a lot more practical (one time cost), perhaps not through the cart slot either, maybe the expansion port on the back (I can't remember exactly what that was though, I seem to remember it having to do with linking DSP's so that wouldn't necessarily work)

 

Anyway, either a lock-on style cart (like a game Genie or Sega's Sonic & Knuckles cart), or it could have been encorporated into the Jaguar CD. With the cart idea, it could have had a built-in game as well to help justify the purchase. (this layout probably would have been advantageous for Nintendo's Super FX as well, probably would have a lot more games using it, and maybe more features than the on-cart version -like more RAM than the 128 kB and expanded ROM addressing past the 2 MB limit)

[Gorf]

There are 32 data lines on the Cartridge Slot

 

Aw, give him a break Owl.This is what happens when you don't read the documentation. You

tend to make stuff up.

 

However, yes and the GPU as a CORE ONLY would be perfect for the cart port as the J-RISC

is exactly 32 bits wide. TOM's 64 bit parts are the blitter and OPL. You dont need two of

eitehr of those trying to hog the same bus.

 

Do all the AI and game logic on a cart GPU core and the drawing ONLY on the internal GPU.

On the cart have a small private 16k RAM.

 

You'll out class all those systems easily. The Jaguar's biggest detriment is using a 16 bit

68k and not having at least a 32 bit host instead(or nothing in the way at all.)

 

The trouble with all this , is it's no longer a true Jaguar anymore. Im much more interested

in seeing what else can be wrung out of the stock machine.

[Gorf]

As to on-cart coprocessor idea, interesting, but I think a single add-on device would be a lot more practical (one time cost), perhaps not through the cart slot either, maybe the expansion port on the back (I can't remember exactly what that was though, I seem to remember it having to do with linking DSP's so that wouldn't necessarily work)

 

The cart port is the widest way to expand the Jaguar. Those other ports are not really general purpose.

As far as a device addon goes....it would no longer be a Jaguar....now it would be a Jaguar Super Charger

of sorts and would be extremely costly. You'd have to extract the J-RISC Core from the nets and re-die a

moer specific processor. I would use the GPU bus system with the DSP intruction set.

[etschuetz]

With all of this talk about what the Jaguar could do, what I would love to see, is what the Prototype JagII could do. On the Atari Museum page, they talk about how they actually hooked up Tempest 2k and had it working, which means the Prototype does work. If there was a possibility of actually manufacturing those on a small scale, without to much mark up, I would love to see what some of you guys with the Jaguar programming skills could do with it. Maybe this whole "what if..." game would be nullified as the Jag 2 may be able to actually produce games that may have rivaled the competition.

[+sgrddy]

Personally I didn't like the N64, the Saturn and PS1 were superior machines once you take away the Silicon Graphics hype.

 

There was nothing on PS1 that came close to Waverace, SM64, Banjo Kazooie, Conker, etc.

 

The Jaguar could have definitely handled Ogre Battle 64, and probably Killer Instinct Gold among others.

[kool kitty89]

The cart port is the widest way to expand the Jaguar. Those other ports are not really general purpose.

As far as a device addon goes....it would no longer be a Jaguar....now it would be a Jaguar Super Charger

of sorts and would be extremely costly. You'd have to extract the J-RISC Core from the nets and re-die a

moer specific processor. I would use the GPU bus system with the DSP intruction set.

 

OK I had a feeling the DSP link probably wouldn't be a practical choice.

 

Anyway, I wasn't referring to something that would be built now, rather a hypothetical statement of somehting that Atari could have released back then. (or would a JRISC be too expensive in those circomstances as well?)

[Gorf]

The cart port is the widest way to expand the Jaguar. Those other ports are not really general purpose.

As far as a device addon goes....it would no longer be a Jaguar....now it would be a Jaguar Super Charger

of sorts and would be extremely costly. You'd have to extract the J-RISC Core from the nets and re-die a

moer specific processor. I would use the GPU bus system with the DSP intruction set.

 

OK I had a feeling the DSP link probably wouldn't be a practical choice.

 

Anyway, I wasn't referring to something that would be built now, rather a hypothetical statement of somehting that Atari could have released back then. (or would a JRISC be too expensive in those circomstances as well?)

 

Since the J-RISC was Atari's..they only would have paid for the silicon which more than likely would be nothing.

I supposed they look at it in terms of profit...why add another 'extra' chip to a console when it can be sold as

another GPU in a another Jag console?

 

Who the hell knows what was going on inseid the Tramiels heads....certainly not video gaming.

[Gorf]

Also the DSP port is buggy and would need Scatologic to figure it out for them anyway

(since they are still the only ones to sucessfully network bug free with the DSP port.)

[Zerosquare]

No they aren't.

[Gorf]

No they aren't.

 

 

Ok, so who else besides they? Don't say the Air Cars guys. They licensed the code from Scatologic.

[-kZa-]

No they aren't.

 

 

Ok, so who else besides they? Don't say the Air Cars guys. They licensed the code from Scatologic.

 

The reply is a link...

 

...follow the link & your prize is an answer to your question.

[+CyranoJ]

Go easy on Gorf. He didn't read the post (again) and just made things up..... despite the fact he replied in that thread twice himself.

 

If only they'd fitted the Jaguar with selective memory......

Edited August 28, 2009 by CyranoJ

[Gorf]

Go easy on Gorf. He didn't read the post (again) and just made things up..... despite the fact he replied in that thread twice himself.

 

If only they'd fitted the Jaguar with selective memory......

 

 

Oh I had a look back then and very impressive indeed but not the same. But I'll give you guys a break

as you clearly dont take the time to read what I post or twist it into something suitable for your

attacks as you 've done here.

 

If only you guys had a clue as to what you were talking about.Im talking 32 networked Jaguar and code that

is actually in a completed game. From the looks of this it is client to client only. Of course that could

probably be expanded. That tother thing you wont see id scren black out in the Scatologic version and it wont

slow down but instead speed up the more jaguars you add to the network. 32 is the practical limit and not

the max btw. Perhaps that is where you misunderstood me, no?

[+CyranoJ]

That tother thing you wont see id scren black out in the Scatologic version and it wont

slow down but instead speed up the more jaguars you add to the network. 32 is the practical limit and not

the max btw. Perhaps that is where you misunderstood me, no?

 

Nope, it's sentences like the one above that make it hard to understand you

[Gorf]

That other thing you wont see is screen black out in the Scatologic version and it wont

slow down but instead speed up the more jaguars you add to the network. 32 is the practical limit and not

the max btw. Perhaps that is where you misunderstood me, no?

 

Nope, it's sentences like the one above that make it hard to understand you

 

 

Mod preview does not make it easy to edit. And hardly an excuse for an old BBS/forum vet like you no to be able to decipher

bad spelling.

 

And my point was simply, this is a software solution and similar has been done long before the Jag even exsited.

Scatologic are the only ones that actually have the UART hardware working and many nodes allowed. This software

bit bang will choke once you hook up too many jags together....unless you drop the baud rates down considerably.

Then you might have better luck of less choke. No slight whatsoever to ZS.

[carmel_andrews]

having looked at my ms word list of old n64 rom's i had before chkdsk decided to delete everything i would say the following

 

Bust a move

 

Any of the James Bond games

 

Quake/Quake II

 

Lastly Duke Nukem

Edited August 29, 2009 by carmel_andrews

[The_Laird]

Quake was planned for release on the Jag anyway and supposedly started too.