Heaven/TQA Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 have a look here... not many of us look frequently in the programming forum... http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=148697 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted August 12, 2009 Author Share Posted August 12, 2009 NRV, well done... quite impressive running that in 50 fps or locked to 25 fps... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miker Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Hmm... maybe mess a bit with (kinda) Vector sources from here. Just this thought... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 (edited) Hmm... maybe mess a bit with (kinda) Vector sources from here. Just this thought... I still think that vector was dead right from the start. The Atari is a small little 8 bit computer with 1.79MHz clocking. Too much 3D calculations have been put into this. NRV's solution seem to use the rasterisation only, for projecting the graphics on the screen, which makes things going faster. 3D calculations have to be as simple as possible, and as less as needed for the gameplay. Very nice NRV. Hope, we will see a level running Edited August 12, 2009 by emkay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poison Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 NO! Atari is the most powerful weapon of destruction in the two Universes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Someone should put this demo onto youtube. I want to give it 5 stars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allas Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 3d-engine of Project M (Wolfenstein 3D clone): Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goochman Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Holy sh..................how is that possible on a stock 8bit??????????????????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puppetmark Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 WOW!!!!! WOW!!!!! WOW!!! EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEXcellent!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwhyte Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 I think I speak for all the Atari community in saying, "Excellent work NRV!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allas Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 (edited) This is far the most impressive game work on Atari 8bit machines. Good graphics, good motion, and an addictive fps of all times. Nobody tried to do the same thing on games before. For a first demo promise so much. Congratulations! and please, keep the work! Edited August 13, 2009 by Allas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRV Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 For a first demo promise so much. Congratulations! and please, keep the work! Thanks, I think that I don't have another option right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potatohead Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Oh man. Thanks for posting the video. This holds a lot of promise!! I'm confused on the tech details. Are the colored sections, like the green wall done with PM overlay, or is this just straight up GTIA being used to interleave colors in PAL mode? Or something else? Looks great though. The software sprites are cool. Wondering if there still is room for hardware sprites on top for characters, or detail? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 3d-engine of Project M (Wolfenstein 3D clone): Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRV Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Are the colored sections, like the green wall done with PM overlay, or is this just straight up GTIA being used to interleave colors in PAL mode? Or something else? Wondering if there still is room for hardware sprites on top for characters, or detail? just GTIA 11 and 9 interleaved lines to have the 256 colors on screen, but only on PAL.. I don't know what you really see in NTSC (I suppose I should test it.. I only have NTSC hardware ) you can see the players used for HUD like effects, by pressing the "P" key.. but yes, they can be used for one enemy, with better resolution, for example.. Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potatohead Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Are the colored sections, like the green wall done with PM overlay, or is this just straight up GTIA being used to interleave colors in PAL mode? Or something else? Wondering if there still is room for hardware sprites on top for characters, or detail? just GTIA 11 and 9 interleaved lines to have the 256 colors on screen, but only on PAL.. I don't know what you really see in NTSC (I suppose I should test it.. I only have NTSC hardware ) you can see the players used for HUD like effects, by pressing the "P" key.. but yes, they can be used for one enemy, with better resolution, for example.. Regards Yeah, NTSC isn't gonna do that. What you will see is a flickery blending of the colors. The eye will blend them somewhat, but it's not the same as what PAL does. IMHO, this is one of the cool things about PAL. Thanks for the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Seeing this running brings so much ideas of a full A8 supporting 3D game. The missile overlay, reminds about a fading screen, where you could use Night Vision Goggles or some infrared recoloured scene... some kind of a Splinter Cell based game. It may not need the gr. 9/11 interleaving ... just made in B/W gr. 9 plus effective use of gr. 10, 11 , and PM ovelay. It could get mindblasting. Just imagine: You walk through the black/white (16 shades) scene.... you just hear something, you don't see. You quickly switch to infrared (gr. 10 or gr. 11) and you see the enemy jumping towards you.... firing at it with all you have... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwhyte Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 (edited) What was that sound? What's that smell? Oh yeah. That's the C64 lovers crapping their pants in awe and envy at the power of an Atari... LOL Edited August 13, 2009 by dwhyte Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted August 13, 2009 Author Share Posted August 13, 2009 yeah but remember that we now all have TFTs... no... the engine kicks ass imho even if it remains a demo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fletch Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 That is friggin awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteD Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 What was that sound? What's that smell? Oh yeah. That's the C64 lovers crapping their pants in awe and envy at the power of an Atari... LOL It's very nicely done but when it's turned into a playable game running at a decent framerate and in 64k THEN c64 users will crap their pants. NRV knows himself that atm it's just a demo, I presume doing something along the lines of column copies from mipmapped graphics onto the screen. You can precalc a lot of vertices for a maze type thing with limited movement and render to those coordinates and still keep a very good speed but then you start to get into problems where the mipmapped stuff isnt accurate enough and doesn't contain the scaled versions needed, when you start getting into rotations it gets even more complex (although storing vertices would again help). I think, go for a "cheat" thing and make it as colourful as possible, try to keep the speed up. Should look amazing and most of the code is already done. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 What we need is a PAL effect box for NTSC. Basically it would decode color like a PAL TV and display it on a monitor. There has to be a cheap multi-system decoding chip with the ability to leave blending on on NTSC mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potatohead Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Didn't they use some lesser rotation on the Jag AvP? Seems to me, if rotation is difficult to do at the higher frame rates, then creative level design could mitigate this. And forget the 64K qualifier. If this ends up something playable, and it takes some RAM, it's gonna be damn cool, period. Crapworthy I would say! Frankly, I think it would drive people to go get upgraded Ataris as much or more than YOOMP! did. re: PM overlay. Having thought about it, they are not really needed for enemies. The software sprites would be enough detail for that. Use them for on screen bullets, the gun firing effect, HUD, etc... Was just asking to know something about what I was seeing. Most PC capture devices can display PAL. There are also PAL to NTSC converters. Don't know if they do the color blending bit or not. I wonder how many of the new displays sold in the US would display PAL? By now, it's the same chipset. How exactly does the blending work? So far, I understand it's like this: There is one scan line, and two frames even and odd. The final color is the result of both frames. On the even frame, set a color, on the odd frame set an intensity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteD Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 The probelms with rotation are either you've got to have some form of 3d calcs in there (never good on a slow cpu but there are some nice fast methods for doing it, also doesn't need to be full 3d because there isnt rotation in every axis) or store some lists of vertices, maybe do some line interpolation between them to get corners of walls etc. Also the renderer as it looks like atm doesn't seem to do any kind of crunching data into bytes to scale stuff, hence the walls on the demo seemingly getting wider as they scale out (they arent actually getting wider, they're just not getting narrower) I don't know really, NRV would be the best to comment on it as it's his code but I can see ways of doing things and I'm pretty sure he's got ways round stuff too. Any way it's done I say keep it in that video mode because it looks stunning If there isn't perfect depth in the renderer then probably nobody would notice so you can cut down on either some mipmapping or a more complex draw routine. I did a maze game on C64 back in the 80s which unfortunatly never got finsihed but that was pseudo lightsourced solid walls and ran 50fps because it cheated, but it was still correct (was all pre-calculated). I'd love to see something zooming around a maze with 90degree rotation that looked like this demo. yum Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miker Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 I think it's good place for cooperation. Well, unless someone wants to do this game himself for $$$ and then plans to be RICH-RICH-RICH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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