What is the best NES clone system available today?

[tremoloman2006]

I've seen the FC Mobile, FC Mobile II, Generation NEX, and others... which would you say is the best for someone starting to get back into the NES?

[fiddlepaddle]

I have the Gen NEX which I like, despite some issues with imperfect duplication of NES game play.

 

I also have the FC Mobile which I like, although the button configuration is a bit different. Also, I don't like playing shooters on it as there is no way to have a rapid fire mode.

 

I must add that an original NES is pretty easy to come by if you look around and is fully compatible with all games. You'll just need to deal with the fussy connector (see many related threads about this).

[STICH666]

I have the Gen NEX which I like, despite some issues with imperfect duplication of NES game play.

 

I also have the FC Mobile which I like, although the button configuration is a bit different. Also, I don't like playing shooters on it as there is no way to have a rapid fire mode.

 

I must add that an original NES is pretty easy to come by if you look around and is fully compatible with all games. You'll just need to deal with the fussy connector (see many related threads about this).

As long as you clean the contacts, an original NES works fine and has a nice clear composite picture. It's really simple to take apart so don't worry about breaking it.

[Atariboy]

The RetroDuo is the best I've seen, though issues remain.

 

The SuperNes side is nearly perfect though.

[retrozoneorg]

The RetroDuo is the best I've seen, though issues remain.

 

The SuperNes side is nearly perfect though.

 

I have an FC Console and a Retro Duo.

 

Cannot notice any difference between the graphics in NES emulation. Although I think the sound is a little better on the FC?

[Reaperman]

I'd say the FC mobile II handheld is a bit more compatible than retroduo, though retroduo is the best of the console-style clones I've seen.

Edited August 14, 2009 by Reaperman

[Tr3vor]

I think the FC Twin is pretty good

[pinball22]

I really like my Generation NEX, though it's not 100% perfect.

[Ace_1]

I owned, tested, and observed 9 Famiclones: Yobo FC Game Console, FC Twin, RetroDuo, Gen-X, GN Twin, Generation NEX, FC Mobile, FC Mobile II, and FC3 Plus. Here's a general idea of each:

 

FC Game Console:

 

-AWFUL build quality(but the controllers are awesome)

-Not compatible with Castlevania III, Rad Racer II and similar games

-Colors seem slightly saturated

-Slight instances of Top-Loader NES style line noise

-Sound is not 100% accurate(some sound channel duties are reversed within the NOAC, causing high-pitched notes to come out low-pitched and vice-versa.

 

I will make note that there's a new version of the FC Game Console that's been released that(supposedly) has a revised NOAC that gets the sound right. There's also RetroBit's Retro Entertainment System which is almost the same machine, but with the accurate NOAC.

 

FC Twin(beware that there are 2 models of this clone, one with Yobo branding and one without. In this case, I'm talking about the Yobo-branded model):

 

-Built well, but the controllers are unreliable(had one broken out of the box and my second one crapped out because one of the pins inside the plug got pushed back to the point where it wouldn't make contact with the controller port pins anymore)

-Will not play Castlevania III, but will play Rad Racer II and similar games with major graphical scrambling

-Uses updated NOAC with good sound reproduction(but messes up sampled music/speech)

-Super NES side is flawless(except for SA-1 games not working due to a missing lockout chip - this can be fixed by soldering a lockout chip off a bad Super NES game)

-Will not work with NES Light Gun games unless you buy the FC Twin Light Gun

 

The older FC Twin with no branding uses the older NOAC and has a problem where the Super NES side has blurry video output, on top of discoloring certain graphics.

 

RetroDuo:

 

-Feels cheap, but is built solid(controllers have stiff D-pads and when you press the D-pad in multiple directions fast, it feels like they'll break)

-Works flawlessly with most games that other clones puke on

-Uses updated NOAC, but with a sound circuit that causes MASSIVE straining, which results in missing/garbled sounds

-Same Super NES accuracy as the FC Twin

-The ONLY NES-compatible console to have S-Video for the NES side(S-Video also works on the Super NES side - it's the only Famiclone with S-Video out of the box)

-Has massive problems with interference(diagonal waves on the NES side via Composite, NES S-Video looks like it's running off a bad RF box, Super NES side has 2 strips of static rolling down the screen)

-Dark Super NES S-Video

-Pack-in controllers have no Turbo function(the FC Twin's controllers do).

-Will not work with NES Light Gun games(not sure if the FC Twin Light Gun will work on it or not)

 

Gen-X:

 

-Built well

-Will not play Castlevania III, Rad Racer II, etc.

-Uses old NOAC, so don't expect accurate sound

-Slightly saturated NES colors

-Near-100% compatibility on the Genesis side

-Genesis sound can give you an earache due to yet another bad sound circuit(it's accurate, but doesn't sound like it due to the sound circuit; makes some sounds come out louder/quiter, and it strains)

-Some Genesis are incompatible due to a LONG 1-second(or longer) delay in registering controller inputs

-Genesis side has too much green in the video output

-Master System converters work, but inputs from the D-pad are not registered

-Some Master System games don't work

-Not compatible with Genesis controllers(but you can wire an NES or Super NES controller to work on the Gen-X)

 

There's a new version of the Gen-X that comes in a completely different box than the one I have, so I'd like it if anyone who has a Gen-X that came in this box to report back on whether the hardware changed or not: http://www.gaminggenerations.com/store/images/gen_x.jpg

 

GN Twin:

 

-Built a little cheaply(controllers are built better, though)

-Again, no Castlevania III, Rad Racer II, etc.

-Old NOAC with inaccurate sound

-NES sound is EXTREMELY muffled and very quiet, which, as a result, makes the NES sound output have more bass than normal

-HEAVILY SATURATED NES video(it's so saturated that outlines are distorted)

-Genesis side is the same like the Gen-X, but it works with all Master System games, and appears to have MORE controller lag than the Gen-X.

 

Generation NEX:

 

-From what I know, it's built better than all the other clones

-Messiah lied in saying it uses a custom NOAC; instead, it uses the old inaccurate one people hate

-Video output seems blurred(at least, that's what I know)

-Integrated Famicom slot(the only modern-day Famiclone in North America to have that)

-Comes with only one controller

-Pack-in controller is a mess

 

FC Mobile:

 

-Feels cheap

-Once again, the usual suspects don't work

-Old NOAC

-Has trouble with the games' color palettes, causing certain colors to come out wrong until you turn the power off and turn it back on again

-Buttons are placed in an unorganized fashion(Start on the left of the screen, Reset on the right of the screen, Select next to A and B; it's a mess)

-A and B buttons are reversed(there is a version of the FC Mobile named Retro Mini that corrects the reversed A/B button problem)

-No rapid-fire

-No way to play with another person

-No way to play Light Gun games

 

FC Mobile II:

 

-Sturdier build

-Conflicting reports of Castlevania III compatibility(some say it works, others say it doesn't)

-Uses updated NOAC

-Fixes color palette problem of the FC Mobile

-Buttons are more organized

-A and B buttons are in their proper order(with an added Turbo function)

-Can play with another person using wireless controllers

-Comes with a wireless Light Gun

 

FC3 Plus:

 

-Good build quality(console only, the rest feels fragile)

-No Castlevania III, etc.

-YET ANOTHER old NOAC

-NES sound output is EXTREMELY silent and has an audible humming noise

-Genesis sound is perfect(some sound channels are little louder than normal, but it sound better that way)

-Genesis compatibility has taken a hit; no more Virtua Racing/Master System games

-Same Super NES side as the FC Twin(but has no solder spot for a lockout chip, so it's hit-or-miss with SA-1 games)

-All sides have HEAVILY-SATURATED video depending on the TV it's used on(most noticeable on the Genesis side)

-Not compatible with Genesis controllers(but you can wire an NES or Super NES controller to work on the FC3 Plus, just like with the Gen-X and GN Twin, whose pack-in controllers will work on the FC3 Plus)

-No information about control lag(supposedly, it's been somewhat reduced)

[Metalwario64]

FC Twin(beware that there are 2 models of this clone, one with Yobo branding and one without. In this case, I'm talking about the Yobo-branded model):

 

-Built well, but the controllers are unreliable(had one broken out of the box and my second one crapped out because one of the pins inside the plug got pushed back to the point where it wouldn't make contact with the controller port pins anymore)

-Will not play Castlevania III, but will play Rad Racer II and similar games with major graphical scrambling

-Uses updated NOAC with good sound reproduction(but messes up sampled music/speech)

-Super NES side is flawless(except for SA-1 games not working due to a missing lockout chip - this can be fixed by soldering a lockout chip off a bad Super NES game)

-Will not work with NES Light Gun games unless you buy the FC Twin Light Gun

 

The older FC Twin with no branding uses the older NOAC and has a problem where the Super NES side has blurry video output, on top of discoloring certain graphics.

You forgot to mention the issue with button presses when using real SNES controllers and both players hit the same button at the same time... I think that was the Y button wasn't it? Didn't it like register as the start button if that happened? It wasn't just yours, it happened on mine as well. That ruined the system for me.

 

I would test it, but I gave mine away and bought an NES. My Sister gave me a SNES so now I have no use for a SNES/NES clone any longer fortunately.

 

Also I don't think you've quite described just how awful the Retro Duo's "sound" is. In fact, half the time there is no music, just a bunch of static!

[nebrazca78]

With all the problems these systems seem to have I don't know why people wouldn't just buy the originals. Perfect compatibility, excellent controllers, great video output...

[StoneAgeGamer]

With all the problems these systems seem to have I don't know why people wouldn't just buy the originals. Perfect compatibility, excellent controllers, great video output...

 

Mainly because the issues don't bother or affect a majority of the people who buy them. Most people who buy these are not hardcore or avid classic gamers.

[madhatter667]

Some of them are though. Some of us just like collecting "weird" stuff.

 

For the money, if you must get a clone, I'd throw down on a Retro Duo.

[MagitekAngel]

I have to agree, there is really no true replacement for an original NES. I have a couple of them, but I've also have an FC Twin and had a Retro Duo. I keep the Twin plugged in because it saves space, it's convenient and it's easier to boot some of my more finicky games with it. I have one of the newer ones, so the emulation is very close to the original in both graphics and sound. I can say the same for the Retro Duo. I'd say either is a worthy purchase.

[jeremysart]

The FC Mobile was really a poor design, I wouldnt buy one..

However, they really did go all out with the FC Mobil II. I liked that they fixed some of the screen problems, such as the horrible colors flaws, and I liked the introduction of wireless nes controllers and zappa gun.

 

I do own an FC Twin, which like the Turbo Duo is both an NES + Snes in one.

I works flawlessly and plays all games including Super FX Snes games.

The only down fall is you cant use you original Nes controller or Zappa gun :-(

 

There is also a more recent one, Turbo Trio or something that has NES, Snes, and Genesis all in one! Now they just need snes to nes to gen adapters to go along with it (I hate the Genesis controller so much!! Im not hatin, I love the Genesis, just not the controller..)

[MaximRecoil]

Are the best NES emulators better than the best NOACs? If so, you'd think someone would embed an emulator in some firmware and make a NES console that way. Also, couldn't the NES hardware logic be implemented in an FPGA? Or would that present the same hurdles as the NOAC manufacturers face? What part or parts of the NES hardware still remains a mystery to the point that perfect replication of it is not yet possible?

[Ze_ro]

Frankly, I have yet to see one that is better than an actual NES. Maybe my city is unusual, but I can generally find NES's with cables and controllers for under $10 at the thrift stores, and they're compatible with everything as long as you clean them up properly.

 

Every clone I've seen has had some major drawback... usually the compatibility, controller, or video quality (if not all of the above). Plus, they usually cost a good bit more than $10 (I can't really hold that against them though... I certainly don't expect a new system to compete price-wise against something over 20 years old).

 

The only ones that I've been interested in are the portable ones, but then you're stuck with the fact that the cartridges themselves are hardly portable. In the end, I'd suggest getting something like a GP32 or GP2X and just run a NES emulator. Hell, even the Dingoo A320 is a pretty decent price for what it can do.

 

--Zero

[godslabrat]

Are the best NES emulators better than the best NOACs? If so, you'd think someone would embed an emulator in some firmware and make a NES console that way. Also, couldn't the NES hardware logic be implemented in an FPGA? Or would that present the same hurdles as the NOAC manufacturers face? What part or parts of the NES hardware still remains a mystery to the point that perfect replication of it is not yet possible?

 

Allright, I need to give the standard "I'm not a hardware guy, BUT..." disclaimer here. I'll explain the best I can in terms I understand, and if someone with better hardware knowledge wants to fill in the gaps, I certainly won't be offended.

 

In order to shrink down the NES' CPU and PPU into a single, managable chip, you have to reduce the complexity of the design. Because of the age of the chips in question, this is not really that difficult, but when you simplify something, you are necessarily changing it. In theory, if your new chip fits the spec of the old one, that should be enough, but in the real world it just doesn't work that way. Back when you had no choice but to program in low-level languages, you could optimize your code to take advantage of the peculiarities of the NES' design, and this could involve invoking little-used commands or even exploiting a design flaw to your advantage. As a programmer, you might have done near anything to get the result you wanted before the game was due, and you had a safety net in that you knew your NES game would never be run on different hardware.

 

But, with the clone systems, that safety net gets taken away. Sure, for the most part, it's not a big deal. However, for some games that were very reliant on having EXACTLY the architecture of the original NES, even the supposedly minor differences between the NES and the clones are enough to affect the games, occasionally to the point of not playing at all.

 

This begs the question, why not simply completely copy an NES from the ground up? I've asked this many times. Conventional wisdom says that it's just not cost-effective. There are some parts of the NES that would have to be copied bit-for-bit, while the NOAC systems are reverse-engineered (thus adding to the gap between the real thing and the clones). To re-create all those parts, at that level of complexity, would probably make for a fairly expensive system. Since the clones are being sold for $30-$40, no one wants to try and market a clone with a price tag rivalling that of a PS2.

 

HTH, sorry in advance for any inaccuracies.

[StoneAgeGamer]

This begs the question, why not simply completely copy an NES from the ground up? I've asked this many times. Conventional wisdom says that it's just not cost-effective. There are some parts of the NES that would have to be copied bit-for-bit, while the NOAC systems are reverse-engineered (thus adding to the gap between the real thing and the clones). To re-create all those parts, at that level of complexity, would probably make for a fairly expensive system. Since the clones are being sold for $30-$40, no one wants to try and market a clone with a price tag rivalling that of a PS2.

 

HTH, sorry in advance for any inaccuracies.

 

I'm not a hardware expert either. However, it all comes down to cost. To copy the NES's hardware exactly would be a big undertaking most likely. I mean to research and develop such a product for a niche market would mean the product would most likely cost hundreds of dollars. $60 is pretty much the high end cap for a clone for most people, when it comes to clones.

 

Although the decisions of some of these Clone designs are sometimes perplexing, I'm sure if they could cheap to make a 100% NES clone they would.

[MaximRecoil]

I'll bet that Jrok could do it (apparently he's not the same guy who posts here under the name "jrok"; he posts on KLOV though under the name "jrok"). Reading his page about his Multi-Williams arcade board leads me to suspect he could properly recreate the NES hardware. He used a combination of an FPGA with the CPU from the original hardware. So maybe the key to a perfect NES clone is to use a real 2A03 CPU and do the rest in an FPGA. It would probably be too expensive though, especially when real NESs are still so easy to find.

[StoneAgeGamer]

Yes, but the question is how cheaply can he do it?

[tremoloman2006]

Thank you for all the great replies everyone, especially Ace_1! You really went into greater detail than I was expecting and it has helped a lot!

 

I was thinking of going the clone route because every NES I find always has issues with carts loading properly, having to blow on carts to let them work, etc. I assumed the clones took care of this with better designs.

 

I think I'll get a used NES and also a clone to satisift by growing desire to get back into the NES and perhaps SNES. I'm going to look at each system mentioned above and pick one up once I sell a few things.

 

Again... thanks for everything! You guys are the best!

[Ace_1]

Glad to be of help, tremoloman.

[rjchamp3]

Let me ask you this, which one should I buy

 

I would also like to ask if the handheld is fully compatible and which one to buy.

 

Thanks

[StoneAgeGamer]

Let me ask you this, which one should I buy

 

I would also like to ask if the handheld is fully compatible and which one to buy.

 

Thanks

 

There is no clone that is 100% compatible. The most compatible NES clone (portable or regular) out right now is the FC Mobile 2. The FC Mobile 2 can be used as a regular console as well, however the wireless controllers and gun that come with it aren't that great and there are no plugs for controllers on the system.

 

I do think Hyperkin has intentions someday taking the FC Mobile 2 NOAC and making it a regular system. However, that might be awhile off.

 

Innex does make a knockoff of the FC Mobile 2 called the RetroMini-X. I would personally not suggest buying this. Mainly because I hate it when companies don't design something for themselves.