Jump to content
Atari_Owl

Atari Owl Project?

Recommended Posts

Hi Everyone

 

I recently got a couple of slightly worried messages asking if the project is abandoned.

 

I can assure everyone it is NOT gone.

Work, racing and other life priorities have merely got in the way a bit this year.

 

Sorry to have been so quiet.

 

All the Best

AO

 

Edit: I should have said though, Many Thanks, its good to know people are still interested :)

 

 

We are all VERY interested! We hope progress is still being made, and that you are able to pick up on it again in your spare time! Definitely waiting to see more about this game :) Any new teaser screens??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There wasn't a single post to the blog in 2012, in fact there hasn't been one for 18 months. So either he went dark and continues in silence or in private or there has been nothing to report.

 

Considering it's almost 7 years since the first noises were made about the game on AA and people had seen demos of the routines earlier still at jagfestuk, it's seeming less and less likely to ever become a game as each year drifts by.

 

Not being a hater, just facing facts... the project was incredibly ambitious in its scope (RPG - difficult genre to design and test. WRPG - harder still to implement. 3rd Person WRPG - You're not making this easy for yourself, are you? :lol:

 

A few people using their spare time attempting to mimic what Nintendo geniuses spend every minute of every day for years working towards, and doing so on 1993 hardware. How was that ever going to happen realistically? I'm not even all that convinced there was ever a cohesive game design that was being worked towards... how exactly was live piano music ever supposed to make its way to a cartridge? There would be no room on there for your actual game assets!

 

I'd love to be proven wrong & see it scheduled in for a release at some point soon, but when does hoping & wanting something turn into something else? It just doesn't look at all likely. AOP cast a pretty large shadow over other developments for a long time - "hoisted shovelware" vs the ossomness of voxel landscapes and textured 3d rooms... it starts to look like a couple of dozen birds in the hand are worth more than whatever is lurking in that bush over there...

 

</xuntyrant> :lol:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

here it is:

 

; T

 

I tried to save the source but all I got was this "Atari Owl Project - Page 5 - Atari Jaguar - AtariAge Forums - Page 5. htm" file. How am I supposed to compile this without the makefile?!?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How am I supposed to compile this without the makefile?!?

 

Maybe you need to leave it a bit longer :)

 

In all seriousness, the demos that have been shown have been very impressive, however I can't envision a scenario where a complex and compelling game (something more than go to point A, pick up item Z, take it to point B) could be attached to them and still fit in a single cart, especially given that the binaries for outside and inside are, afaik, seperate (Insert cart 2?)

 

As for loading from CD, well that makes the task at hand even harder, you'd be limiting yourself to 2mb RAM, instead of 2mb RAM + 4mb ROM. Squeezing something that already doesn't fit into even less space? Can't see it happening myself.

 

I'm sure Owl could use the engine in another project, possibly something that could be completed in a smaller time frame.

Edited by CyranoJ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm sure Owl could use the engine in another project, possibly something that could be completed in a smaller time frame.

 

Yeah, something more linear with much more finite testing requirements - like a decent driving game (he's a racing driver after all, isn't he?).

 

I suppose these posts might look a bit mean if you're not very up on game design, but with a game such as this, the engine is a tiny fraction of the requirements of implementing a 3rd person WRPG. Miniscule in fact. As far as anyone knows the engines aren't in a state when the game design can be implemented, that's pretty much the first stride forwards on a journey up the mountain. Extrapolate time taken to get to where it is thus far and it's fairly obvious it'd need several lifetimes of part-time work here and there before a game of any sorts came out the other end. The videos remain a nice example of what might be possible, but until there's a game running in there as well nobody really knows how it would perform. Besides, Typo has proven you can take a voxel engine, have it run blisteringly fast & wrap a solid game around it that's both achievable and practical for 1 man/very small team to make happen. So nothing to prove anymore on that front.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Many individuals fail to factor in the time requirements for designing a proper game on any vintage console. It is no easy feat having to rely on assembly and limited APIs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well by chance one of my infrequent visits has occured only a couple of days after someone has raised some points.

 

Regarding the project

 

1 - There has simply been no time, much racing, foreign travel for work and extra work has meant that it has slipped to the bottom of my priorities

 

2 - There was no intention of running live piano music from the cart, of course that was unfeasible, the demos used some large samples of that though, but MODs were intended. I believe the homebrews thread reveals that the plan was for a cart with a CD of additional data and music to stream.

 

3 - There are indeed two binaries, an indoor and an outdoor one.. however they are identical except in the way the GPU code was initialised and the textures. I just found it easier to work on thenm separately than to switch.

 

4 - There was a coherent plan... and in truth anybody expecting something as sweeping, epic and majestic as Zelda would have been disappointed.

 

5 - CyranoJ... thank you for the kind words.

 

 

Secondly regarding the subject of 'hating'

 

1. I have been around the community a long time, i was in the UGD and was dragged into the confrontations between the UGD (with other european coders) and what became the JSII crowd. I spent a lot of effort in tryig to bridge that gap, and by 2009 truly hoped it was calming. I had been able to talk civilly with Gorf and even Tbird.

 

The "hoisted shovelware" comment. I repeated from another thread on a poll intending it in good spirits, the term itself being nonsensical.

My position now is as it was then ... i believe there is a place in any coding community for both large and small projects, the omission of either being a detriment to the community.

 

2. I was very disappointed with the raction to 'GPU in Main'... i discovered a solution to this several years previously, but i did not find it reliable. Knowing the toxic nature of the community i did not reveal it because i knew people would try it and attack if it did not work for them. It was only with Gorfs more structured approach and the promise of an automated approach with SMAC that i felt comfortable releasing it. The attitude then and since has only served to remind me that my initial appraisal was the correct one.Regardless of the target, comments about it, people pushing the limits of the coding, people with PhDs etc were hard not to be irritated by.

 

3. Once the conflict grew... it seemed to me the behaviour of all sides was poor and i became increasingly irritated by the stirring and rampant sock puppetry that occurred. (Not just on one side) I 'liked' some comments in the middle of that irritation, which i know must have irritated people on all sides.

 

4. *I* made a joke at Jagfest UK that Project One was taking longer to uncompress than i had spent playing it. I should have realised it would turn into further conflict. Instead i hoped it would be forgotten.

 

5. After that the Community became no less toxic, and plainly a lot happened... i don't know much about who did what to whom and frankly i don't want to.

 

 

In summary

 

I wish Gorf well at his forum

I wish Albert and everyone here at AA well

I wish Jason and the guys at JSII well

I wish Matthias well.. release Clicks already!

I wish Tbird well wherever he is these days

I wish the Laird well with his Retro Gamer stuff

I wish Jagware and Reboot well, their releases are appreciated

And anybody i have left out, Crazy Ace, Tursi, 108stars, Stephen Moss, Nonner, SubQmod, Belboz, Linko mate, and all sorts of good people.

 

I hope, at some point, that everyone can remember that the Jaguar was just a not very good console, from which we still manage to derive some fun, and that whatever it is... it's not worth the level of crap it's generated in these forums for longer than i care to remember.

 

I shan't be a total stranger

 

Shalom

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know what drama happened. All I know is that the Owl Demo has always wowed me. Truly showing the potential of this under-deserved platform. I'm glad you're doing what you love. Racing or coding.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Atari-Owl,

 

thanks for your good wishes, i do wish you all the best as well. :)

 

@all:

Yeah, like many others i hoped to see a new demo of Atari_Owl's project at Euro-Jagfest, but who am i to complain about it? It took me 5 years to release Impulse X, a game for which i neither had to create the complete game-engine, nor the level designs (not to speak about all the assets).

 

As Clicks! was mentioned:

It was an ambitious project at that time (2002?), we just had started to learn how to handle the CD-player properly, and also how to use Cinepak-movies, but at some point i decided to create a more simpler CD-based game first, as a proof of concept. This game (having bullet proof CD access funtionality, but no Cinepak) became Double Feature #1, released in late 2006.

 

 

Kind regards

Matthias

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well by chance one of my infrequent visits has occured only a couple of days after someone has raised some points.

 

Regarding the project

 

1 - There has simply been no time, much racing, foreign travel for work and extra work has meant that it has slipped to the bottom of my priorities

 

2 - There was no intention of running live piano music from the cart, of course that was unfeasible, the demos used some large samples of that though, but MODs were intended. I believe the homebrews thread reveals that the plan was for a cart with a CD of additional data and music to stream.

 

3 - There are indeed two binaries, an indoor and an outdoor one.. however they are identical except in the way the GPU code was initialised and the textures. I just found it easier to work on thenm separately than to switch.

 

4 - There was a coherent plan... and in truth anybody expecting something as sweeping, epic and majestic as Zelda would have been disappointed.

 

5 - CyranoJ... thank you for the kind words.

 

 

Secondly regarding the subject of 'hating'

 

1. I have been around the community a long time, i was in the UGD and was dragged into the confrontations between the UGD (with other european coders) and what became the JSII crowd. I spent a lot of effort in tryig to bridge that gap, and by 2009 truly hoped it was calming. I had been able to talk civilly with Gorf and even Tbird.

 

The "hoisted shovelware" comment. I repeated from another thread on a poll intending it in good spirits, the term itself being nonsensical.

My position now is as it was then ... i believe there is a place in any coding community for both large and small projects, the omission of either being a detriment to the community.

 

2. I was very disappointed with the raction to 'GPU in Main'... i discovered a solution to this several years previously, but i did not find it reliable. Knowing the toxic nature of the community i did not reveal it because i knew people would try it and attack if it did not work for them. It was only with Gorfs more structured approach and the promise of an automated approach with SMAC that i felt comfortable releasing it. The attitude then and since has only served to remind me that my initial appraisal was the correct one.Regardless of the target, comments about it, people pushing the limits of the coding, people with PhDs etc were hard not to be irritated by.

 

3. Once the conflict grew... it seemed to me the behaviour of all sides was poor and i became increasingly irritated by the stirring and rampant sock puppetry that occurred. (Not just on one side) I 'liked' some comments in the middle of that irritation, which i know must have irritated people on all sides.

 

4. *I* made a joke at Jagfest UK that Project One was taking longer to uncompress than i had spent playing it. I should have realised it would turn into further conflict. Instead i hoped it would be forgotten.

 

5. After that the Community became no less toxic, and plainly a lot happened... i don't know much about who did what to whom and frankly i don't want to.

 

 

In summary

 

I wish Gorf well at his forum

I wish Albert and everyone here at AA well

I wish Jason and the guys at JSII well

I wish Matthias well.. release Clicks already!

I wish Tbird well wherever he is these days

I wish the Laird well with his Retro Gamer stuff

I wish Jagware and Reboot well, their releases are appreciated

And anybody i have left out, Crazy Ace, Tursi, 108stars, Stephen Moss, Nonner, SubQmod, Belboz, Linko mate, and all sorts of good people.

 

I hope, at some point, that everyone can remember that the Jaguar was just a not very good console, from which we still manage to derive some fun, and that whatever it is... it's not worth the level of crap it's generated in these forums for longer than i care to remember.

 

I shan't be a total stranger

 

Shalom

 

Good to hear from you again. I hope one day coding on your project will be higher up on the priorities again. I was VERY impressed with the demo at E-Jagfest back then I really do hope that you finish what you started because it looked very promising. Truth to be told with all the wording in a past tense it does not seem likley, but I do hope that one day we see more from you.

All the best.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

And anybody i have left out, Crazy Ace, Tursi, 108stars, Stephen Moss, Nonner, SubQmod, Belboz, Linko mate, and all sorts of good people.

 

 

Good to hear you are still alive squire, although sounds like you are still too busy :)

 

Hope stuff is going well with you and your good lady.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Joe, I just learned about this today.

 

I am sad to hear the project is dead, but it is understandable. Maybe you will find time and motivation to do something with the great engine you created someday.

 

Know that I always had full confidence in you; I know from experience that you can do big, huge projects as homebrews. But it takes lots of time and effort, and you were alone with Beth. At some point you have to decide on what's good for you and your family. AOP would have been great for sure, but even as it is you have shown us some performance from the Jaguar we did not think the machine was capable of.

 

Good luck with whatever you're gonna do, pal. :)

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Mate

 

Its great to hear from you.

 

In fact, it's not necessarily gone, it's just WAY down the list of priorities.

If things change then i might return to it, but coding doesnt really hold the interest it did for me anymore.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a long time Jag fan, this homebrew project was by far the most interesting, due to the amazing graphics, showing to Jag haters what the systems could really do. Also being a 3d rpg made it even more interesting.

Well, at least we have those amazing videos that Owl shared with us

Thanks Atari Owl!, good luck with your life projects, and like you say, who knows, maybe at one point you will be abe to work on AOP again.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What an amazing half-decade-self-necropost :lol: And here I was, thinking I've seen it all in jag forums :lol:

 

You waited 5 years. Couldn't you wait 12 hrs more and post at 6:19pm instead of 6.33am ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He's just excited about AO's project. We've never seen anyone that skilled before do so much in their spare time on the Jaguar. Full screen texturing at a good resolution and respectable speed.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think double, triple, or more frame buffering situation could yield faster frame rates if done in main-ram; could certainly help with any slowdown or choppiness if pre-rendered frames are in a constant stream instead of rendering individual frames on the fly... It seems necessary in the Jaguar case. Dedicate about 500kb or more main-ram just for GPU stuff seems ideal. OWL's demo is definitely a fine example of what's possible using the "GPU to Main RAM" should be exploited even more despite whatever the short comings are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think double, triple, or more frame buffering situation could yield faster frame rates if done in main-ram; could certainly help with any slowdown or choppiness if pre-rendered frames are in a constant stream instead of rendering individual frames on the fly... It seems necessary in the Jaguar case. Dedicate about 500kb or more main-ram just for GPU stuff seems ideal. OWL's demo is definitely a fine example of what's possible using the "GPU to Main RAM" should be exploited even more despite whatever the short comings are.

 

Few things wrong with your assumptions there..

 

More frame buffers != higher frame rate. Each buffer needs to be populated, if the jag can produce 15 frames in a second, having an extra buffer will not make that any faster, it can still only produce 15 frames a second. Double buffering allows you to complete a frame whilst displaying the previous frame, this helps remove rendering artefacts from view (sheering etc), only giving the player a complete frame when it is ready. It doesn't slow down the production or speed it up, it just improves the experience of viewing the scene, and allows more than 1/60th of a second to produce a frame.

 

From my understanding having spoken with Atari Owl over the years, the use of GPU in Main (oh god here we go again), is primarily used for low frequency type functions, NOT as anything to be used for speeding up rendering. It (for example), could mean you leave the 3D rendering code in the GPU RAM which needs speed, and then have routines that perform more administrative type roles in Main RAM. The GPU will run roughly 10x slower when running code from main RAM, but if it's only a relatively small amount of code that's ran once every frame or so, it makes it worthwhile overall.

 

GPU in main is NOT a magic bullet, it is another tool/possibility that can be used to help in SOME circumstances.

  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...