Homebrew supply questions

[disjaukifa]

Hey,

 

I am looking at doing some dev on my Atari 2600 in addition with Stella and I have a few questions. I already have found a great deal on an EPROM Programmer that is cheap and will work and I have found the 2k/4k PCB Socketed board I need to make the cartridge, however here is what I don't know.

 

1st. Is there a difference between the 2732 4K EPROM and a 27C32 4K EPROM. From what I can tell they are exactly the same.

2nd. Where can I buy PROMS and EPROMS? I have found used EPROMS on eBay which wouldn't break my heart to use but other than that where could I get them?

3rd. What should I expect to pay for the PROMS and EPROMS?

 

And if people are wondering why I don't just get the Starpath Supercharger/Cuttle Cart/Harmony Cartridge the reason is I just don't think it would be the same. There is nothing like testing software(games for here) on the actually hardware it will run on, that is the best way to test the code.

 

Thanks

Disjaukifa

[Atari Dogs]

Here is a good suppier of eproms. These are used. You will have to erase and straighten the pins, but the price is great. http://www.epromman.com/

 

I don't know what the C means in the eprom size, but it will not affect the use in Atari cartridges.

[disjaukifa]

Here is a good suppier of eproms. These are used. You will have to erase and straighten the pins, but the price is great. http://www.epromman.com/

 

I don't know what the C means in the eprom size, but it will not affect the use in Atari cartridges.

 

Thank you for the reply that is exactly what I was looking for!!!! That is a good deal on EPROMS, .50 a piece is not bad at all!!!!

 

Thanks again

Disjaukifa

[+Nathan Strum]

And if people are wondering why I don't just get the Starpath Supercharger/Cuttle Cart/Harmony Cartridge the reason is I just don't think it would be the same. There is nothing like testing software(games for here) on the actually hardware it will run on, that is the best way to test the code.

Actually, the Harmony cart hardware is identical to the forthcoming Melody cart, which will be used for producing homebrews at AtariAge. Effectively, you would be running on the same hardware.

[disjaukifa]

And if people are wondering why I don't just get the Starpath Supercharger/Cuttle Cart/Harmony Cartridge the reason is I just don't think it would be the same. There is nothing like testing software(games for here) on the actually hardware it will run on, that is the best way to test the code.

Actually, the Harmony cart hardware is identical to the forthcoming Melody cart, which will be used for producing homebrews at AtariAge. Effectively, you would be running on the same hardware.

 

However the Harmony comes out on the September 20th . . . . and only in what Oregan and I can't seem to find the official order list??? If you could point me too it that would be great.

 

This is something else I have been wondering, if I make a homebrew game and want to sell on AtariAge how exactly does that work???

 

Part of me wants to go the EPROM route and make the board myself with parts from 8bitclassics.com and do the labels and everything myself, i think it would be fun.

 

Thanks

Disjaukifa

[Atari Dogs]

I made a release last year (20 carts). I used 8bitclassics for the labels, the eproms from above, and I got the boards from someone here. I enjoyed programming the eproms and soldering them myself.

 

If you want manuals, Albert is probably be the one to go to. If 8bitclassics does manuals, let me know . I sent an advertisement page (that is what I called it) with my cartridge since I could not make manuals myself. If you need help pm me.

[disjaukifa]

I made a release last year (20 carts). I used 8bitclassics for the labels, the eproms from above, and I got the boards from someone here. I enjoyed programming the eproms and soldering them myself.

 

If you want manuals, Albert is probably be the one to go to. If 8bitclassics does manuals, let me know . I sent an advertisement page (that is what I called it) with my cartridge since I could not make manuals myself. If you need help pm me.

 

Just out of curiosity what EPROM Programmer do you have? I'm looking into multiple ones that are all under 60 bucks, not looking to spend alot of money on a programmer seeing as I just want to program for the Atari 2600. Also were you able to sell all 20 copies of your game and how much did you sell it for?

[+batari]

And if people are wondering why I don't just get the Starpath Supercharger/Cuttle Cart/Harmony Cartridge the reason is I just don't think it would be the same. There is nothing like testing software(games for here) on the actually hardware it will run on, that is the best way to test the code.

Then you don't quite understand what the Harmony cart is - you can develop on Harmony and release a cart on the same hardware. This homebrew hardware is a stripped-down Harmony, called Melody. It will be mass-produced so the price will be competitive with EPROM carts.

 

EDIT: Oops, Nathan addressed this already.

 

Anyway... Mass-produced Melody carts will be available in a couple of months.

 

EDIT2: It may be possible to buy a "Homebrew kit" consisting of a Melody programmer and a number of Melody carts (say, 10 minimum) or some Melody carts separately (again, with a minimum.) This way you could build your own carts without an EPROM programmer or even a soldering iron. I have not decided if "blank" Melody carts will be available to everyone, or just trusted individuals (we don't want people selling others' homebrews without permission!)

Edited September 18, 2009 by batari

[Atari Dogs]

I made a release last year (20 carts). I used 8bitclassics for the labels, the eproms from above, and I got the boards from someone here. I enjoyed programming the eproms and soldering them myself.

 

If you want manuals, Albert is probably be the one to go to. If 8bitclassics does manuals, let me know . I sent an advertisement page (that is what I called it) with my cartridge since I could not make manuals myself. If you need help pm me.

 

Just out of curiosity what EPROM Programmer do you have? I'm looking into multiple ones that are all under 60 bucks, not looking to spend alot of money on a programmer seeing as I just want to program for the Atari 2600. Also were you able to sell all 20 copies of your game and how much did you sell it for?

 

I have the dual powered Willem. It is the one that does program the 2716 and 2732 chips. I have not had problems with it, but some people have had problems with the Willem. I bought 6 sheets of labels (24 labels in total) and sold 20 carts. I would have been nice to sell all 24 but I had some extra in case I messed up applying the label. I think I sold them for $26 shipped with a discount of 2 dollars for people that ordered at the Atari show in Columbus, Ohio.

[disjaukifa]

And if people are wondering why I don't just get the Starpath Supercharger/Cuttle Cart/Harmony Cartridge the reason is I just don't think it would be the same. There is nothing like testing software(games for here) on the actually hardware it will run on, that is the best way to test the code.

Then you don't quite understand what the Harmony cart is - you can develop on Harmony and release a cart on the same hardware. This homebrew hardware is a stripped-down Harmony, called Melody. It will be mass-produced so the price will be competitive with EPROM carts.

 

EDIT: Oops, Nathan addressed this already.

 

Anyway... Mass-produced Melody carts will be available in a couple of months.

 

EDIT2: It may be possible to buy a "Homebrew kit" consisting of a Melody programmer and a number of Melody carts (say, 10 minimum) or some Melody carts separately (again, with a minimum.) This way you could build your own carts without an EPROM programmer or even a soldering iron. I have not decided if "blank" Melody carts will be available to everyone, or just trusted individuals (we don't want people selling others' homebrews without permission!)

 

AHHHHHH ok I was missing that connection there!!!! I didn't realize that Melody was a stripped down low cost cartridge that homebrews were going to be sold through my guess would be the AtariAge store once it comes back online?

 

I am new to the Homebrew community so please forgive my mis-understanding of how the Harmony/Melody work, I just joined a couple of days ago and have been reading information like crazy and its beginning to get all jumbled in my head.

 

So let me see if I understand everything correctly. The Harmony cart is going to be a Developers Cartridge for the 2600 that will allow several nice features which I won't list here to let the dev test their code (presumably games) on a real Atari 2600.

 

Once they are done with dev and want to publish the Cartridge, the dev will somehow be able to contact I presume you or albert or whoever to get them to setup their program (again more than likely game) to be sold as a homebrew on this website. The Homebrew version would be published on a Melody Cartridge which is a stripped down version of the Harmony cart and is aimed at competing with the price of the EPROM carts, however the Melody has more features that allow for more complex programs to be written for it without the need for special hardware.

 

Did I get that correct?

 

EDIT 1: Hey Batari, after the show on Sunday, how will we get our names on the list and how soon do you think we will be able to get the Dev Cartridge??? Also do you have an idea on what the price might be for pre-order list? I have heard its over 100+ units at this point.

 

Wish there was a way I could buy one from you on the 20th but seeing as I am in Virginia I don't think that is going to happen . .

 

EDIT 2: I still thinking about doing the EPROM as I think it would be fun, I like doing stuff like that and it just sounds interesting. I know where I can get the EPROMS and I now where I can get the Programmer as well. Found out I need to cough up a little more money for a pure usb model seeing as I don't have a computer that comes with a Parallel port and all my computers are laptops . . .

 

Still don't know yet if I want to go the Harmony route or the EPROM . . . I guess it depends on cost, I can understand the cost behind the Harmony, I'm not saying its unfair, I think its a very fair price, however I can get the EPROMS, a Socketed 4K PCB board and the Burner for the same price as the Harmony . . . its really a toss up.

 

It would be nice to package and make all the cartridges myself (again I just enjoy stuff like that) but the Harmony sounds like a fantastic device. I not sure what I am going to do at this point . . .

 

Thanks

Disjaukifa

Edited September 18, 2009 by disjaukifa

[+batari]

And if people are wondering why I don't just get the Starpath Supercharger/Cuttle Cart/Harmony Cartridge the reason is I just don't think it would be the same. There is nothing like testing software(games for here) on the actually hardware it will run on, that is the best way to test the code.

Then you don't quite understand what the Harmony cart is - you can develop on Harmony and release a cart on the same hardware. This homebrew hardware is a stripped-down Harmony, called Melody. It will be mass-produced so the price will be competitive with EPROM carts.

 

EDIT: Oops, Nathan addressed this already.

 

Anyway... Mass-produced Melody carts will be available in a couple of months.

 

EDIT2: It may be possible to buy a "Homebrew kit" consisting of a Melody programmer and a number of Melody carts (say, 10 minimum) or some Melody carts separately (again, with a minimum.) This way you could build your own carts without an EPROM programmer or even a soldering iron. I have not decided if "blank" Melody carts will be available to everyone, or just trusted individuals (we don't want people selling others' homebrews without permission!)

 

AHHHHHH ok I was missing that connection there!!!! I didn't realize that Melody was a stripped down low cost cartridge that homebrews were going to be sold through my guess would be the AtariAge store once it comes back online?

 

I am new to the Homebrew community so please forgive my mis-understanding of how the Harmony/Melody work, I just joined a couple of days ago and have been reading information like crazy and its beginning to get all jumbled in my head.

 

So let me see if I understand everything correctly. The Harmony cart is going to be a Developers Cartridge for the 2600 that will allow several nice features which I won't list here to let the dev test their code (presumably games) on a real Atari 2600.

 

Once they are done with dev and want to publish the Cartridge, the dev will somehow be able to contact I presume you or albert or whoever to get them to setup their program (again more than likely game) to be sold as a homebrew on this website. The Homebrew version would be published on a Melody Cartridge which is a stripped down version of the Harmony cart and is aimed at competing with the price of the EPROM carts, however the Melody has more features that allow for more complex programs to be written for it without the need for special hardware.

 

Did I get that correct?

 

Thanks

Disjaukifa

Yes, you got it!

 

EDIT: in response to your edit, you'll probably have to wait for Albert to get back from Portland to set up the preorder list here.

 

There is also a chance that the Harmony carts won't sell out at the show. If that is the case, they will be sold here.

Edited September 18, 2009 by batari

[disjaukifa]

Batari,

 

I just realized my second edited sounded a bit condescending but its not. What you have been able to engineer is short of remarkable!!!! I'm just one of the people that likes to ticker with stuff so when I get into a situation where its get something that does what I need or I have the option to build and make it myself . . . . I have a difficult choice because I love to tinker!!!!

 

BTW I have a feeling the Harmony is going to sell out very quickly in Portland!!!!

 

Thanks

Disjaukifa

[+batari]

Batari,

 

I just realized my second edited sounded a bit condescending but its not. What you have been able to engineer is short of remarkable!!!! I'm just one of the people that likes to ticker with stuff so when I get into a situation where its get something that does what I need or I have the option to build and make it myself . . . . I have a difficult choice because I love to tinker!!!!

 

BTW I have a feeling the Harmony is going to sell out very quickly in Portland!!!!

 

Thanks

Disjaukifa

Sure, it is fun to build carts out of raw materials.

 

However, the Harmony is also useful for tinkerers. On the back of the cart is a 12-pin header (you may need to cut a hole for it, but it's there) and it gives you access to some features of the cart. It will be documented when the time comes, but you have access to 5v from the 2600, 3.3v regulated output, a UART, a hardware RESET line, and best of all, the SPI bus. There are two other devices on the SPI bus already but with a little bit of logic (again, this will be documented) you can use your own device here as well.

[Dan Iacovelli]

I have a supercharger and plan on getting the harmony cart as well.

this is the first time I heard of the melody cart.

what is the difference between the two.

[+batari]

I have a supercharger and plan on getting the harmony cart as well.

this is the first time I heard of the melody cart.

what is the difference between the two.

Melody is a stripped down Harmony. It lacks the SD card slot, USB plug, USB chip, 512k EEPROM chip, daughterboard, various passives. Also, Melody only runs single game images, has no multicart ability, and requires a special programming appliance to program. The Melody cart will not be sold separately - it is intended as the board sold in homebrew games, especially those developed with a Harmony cart.

[Dan Iacovelli]

I have a supercharger and plan on getting the harmony cart as well.

this is the first time I heard of the melody cart.

what is the difference between the two.

Melody is a stripped down Harmony. It lacks the SD card slot, USB plug, USB chip, 512k EEPROM chip, daughterboard, various passives. Also, Melody only runs single game images, has no multicart ability, and requires a special programming appliance to program. The Melody cart will not be sold separately - it is intended as the board sold in homebrew games, especially those developed with a Harmony cart.

so it's basically a single programmable cart that people like al can make carts for.

[accousticguitar]

 

 

EDIT2: It may be possible to buy a "Homebrew kit" consisting of a Melody programmer and a number of Melody carts (say, 10 minimum) or some Melody carts separately (again, with a minimum.) This way you could build your own carts without an EPROM programmer or even a soldering iron. I have not decided if "blank" Melody carts will be available to everyone, or just trusted individuals (we don't want people selling others' homebrews without permission!)

Would this work with 2K games, 4K games, and 8K games? In other words, does it matter what size the games are?

Edited September 19, 2009 by accousticguitar

[disjaukifa]

 

 

EDIT2: It may be possible to buy a "Homebrew kit" consisting of a Melody programmer and a number of Melody carts (say, 10 minimum) or some Melody carts separately (again, with a minimum.) This way you could build your own carts without an EPROM programmer or even a soldering iron. I have not decided if "blank" Melody carts will be available to everyone, or just trusted individuals (we don't want people selling others' homebrews without permission!)

Would this work with 2K games, 4K games, and 8K games? In other words, does it matter what size the games are?

 

From reading all the information I can, you would want to get the Harmony but yes the Melody/Harmony can play all the Atari games up to 32K, please correct me if I am wrong Batari!!!

 

OH Batari you have selling a Homebrew Kit I think it would be a good idea if the buyer(the developer) could show you the homebrew they want to sell (IE just send you the .bin and the .bas file)

 

Also make it so they have to agree to something, etc. I still see what you are saying and I am glad you have the interest of the developers at hand!!!!

 

I love this place!!!

 

EDIT 1: Hey Batari if I buy a ticket to Portland can you pick me up so I can buy a Harmony !! HAHAHAH joking!

 

-Disjaukifa

Edited September 19, 2009 by disjaukifa

[tetrode kink]

...I have not decided if "blank" Melody carts will be available to everyone, or just trusted individuals (we don't want people selling others' homebrews without permission!)

When I read that my gut started twisting in knots; a physical manifestation of the dread which that statement portends.

 

Selling others' homebrews without permission? Sir, people can do that now! Anyone with a brain and Google can find out how to burn a binary to an EPROM. Add a little financial resources and our brainy Googler can produce finished cartridges. Right now, before Melody.

 

I can certainly understand why Party A would want to keep Party B from producing and selling cartridges made using Party A's intellectual property without Party A's permission, but how, exactly, would restricting the wide sale of the Melody Cartridge stop that from happening?

 

The answer, of course, is that it won't. The question of the wide availability of the Melody Cartridge thus becomes not whether infringement is possible, but instead how easy it is. This renders the infringement issue moot because there will always be someone smart enough to do it or rich enough to have it done.

 

I'm actually kind of surprised you raised that specter. After all, look where you are: AtariAge is almost completely antithetical to that restrictionist idea. The sole exceptions to this would be: a) if a homebrewer engaged AtariAge to produce and sell cartridges but didn't want the binary released to the public; that would be his/her choice and I know that Albert would honor his/her wishes, and b) the cases where copyright holders of classic games have demanded AtariAge remove binaries from the software list.

 

Those cases aside, of all the homebrews published here, many (most?) of them are developed in the open, taking suggestions (and help) from members, and the release binaries (not to mention the myriad WIP binaries) are posted publicly.

 

In fact, from what I've seen here AtariAge is devoted to the open exchange of information. Whether it's the forums, the articles, the software list with descriptions and binaries, it seems AtariAge's mantra is openness. This is what makes AtariAge one of the greatest places on the web, IMHO.

 

But what disturbs me most about your statement is the phrase, "trusted individuals." That, sir, is the beginning of an adventure down a very dark road.

 

Exactly who are the "trusted individuals?" How are they chosen? Furthermore, who gets to choose these elite trustees?

 

Please understand, I have the utmost admiration and respect for you and the other names who've taken their time and resources to produce this marvelous device. But the road to ruin is littered with the failed ideas of the most trustworthy of individuals with the best of intentions: The Soviet Union and the DMCA are two examples that spring to mind.

 

Should you choose the dark road, who's to stop someone else from designing a similar device and making it available to the public? Then the question moves from how easy the aforementioned infringement would be to how soon it happens.

 

Ultimately, I just don't think this restriction is necessary. Sure, someone could make cartridges of someone else's game, but considering the market for Atari 2600 games, how many could he realistically hope to sell? Furthermore, where would he sell them? If he tried to sell them in the open such as on eBay or at classic videogame meets, he would be spotted in a heartbeat. He would be outed and shunned by the small but vigilant AtariAge community.

 

So I ask you, nay, I beg you: PLEASE don't go all RIAA on the AtariAge community. We don't deserve it and, judging by your reputation here, neither do you.

 

-tet

[disjaukifa]

...I have not decided if "blank" Melody carts will be available to everyone, or just trusted individuals (we don't want people selling others' homebrews without permission!)

. . .

 

Selling others' homebrews without permission? Sir, people can do that now! Anyone with a brain and Google can find out how to burn a binary to an EPROM. Add a little financial resources and our brainy Googler can produce finished cartridges. Right now, before Melody.

 

I can certainly understand why Party A would want to keep Party B from producing and selling cartridges made using Party A's intellectual property without Party A's permission, but how, exactly, would restricting the wide sale of the Melody Cartridge stop that from happening?

 

The answer, of course, is that it won't. The question of the wide availability of the Melody Cartridge thus becomes not whether infringement is possible, but instead how easy it is. This renders the infringement issue moot because there will always be someone smart enough to do it or rich enough to have it done.

 

. . .

 

Ok,

 

Until someone else can answer this better, here is a response to part of your post. The Melody is much more easy to slap a .bin onto, if you will, then using an EPROM. YES anyone can burn an EPROM, yes anyone can download the .bins of other devs and make their on cartridge but here is the major difference.

 

The Melody can just about play any .bin from 2k to 32k and it emulates the (I think this is the wrong name) SuperChip ram which gives the dev more ram to work with. Not knowing exactly how it works, it just sounds like you load it from your computer onto the cartridge in about 3 minutes and its done. Now lets look at the EPROM way.

 

First the tools you need for the EPROM:

EPROMS (Several Different types depending on the game size, I know a website where you can buy 50 for 25 bucks)

EPROM Burner (Need a decent one so thats at least 75 ~ 100, 100 ~ 200 if you want a good one)

EPROM Eraser (For when burners fail about 50 for a good one)

PCB boards for the EPROMS (4 bucks a piece)

Soldering Iron and other tools

Cases (Presumedly used ones)

SuperChips depending on the game (3 bucks and hard to find)

Labels (1.50 a sheet I think)

 

So realistically you are look at spending a minimum of 150 ~ 225 bucks just burn the first game and its not even guaranteed to work because some games used custom made PCB boards and special add on chips. Also you have the hassle of soldering the eprom to the pcb board which you might messup. Is it possible, sure but its going to take a long time and a good amount of money.

 

Now the Harmony doesn't need most of the expensive stuff so, and I literally guess at this price, Lets say you want to do the same with the Melody, get the dev kit for 50ish bucks (no idea what it would cost) and then It would be a drag and drop process and your done. At that point it would be so cheap and easy for people to put a copied game onto a cart they didn't own and sell it.

 

If you really want to play .bin on your Atari 2600 spend the 49.99 or the 74.99 on the Harmony, and enjoy. I don't see a problem with restricting or just not selling the Melody because there is the Harmony which Batari and Albert are offering to anybody to buy and in two edition as well. Anyone can buy the Harmony and it will let you play .bins on the 2600 with an SD card. It makes sense to have the Melody just for homebrews that are going to be developed and published. Also its what it was designed for, to make it easier and cheaper for Batari to publish homebrew games with the programmers than made them on this site.

 

There is a really good saying: Why do you put locks on doors? To keep honest people out.

 

The people that really want to copy and sell other peoples games will with the EPROM method if they think they can make all the money back in the end.

 

Just my two cents

 

-Disjaukifa

Edited September 25, 2009 by disjaukifa

[+batari]

...I have not decided if "blank" Melody carts will be available to everyone, or just trusted individuals (we don't want people selling others' homebrews without permission!)

When I read that my gut started twisting in knots; a physical manifestation of the dread which that statement portends.

 

Selling others' homebrews without permission? Sir, people can do that now! Anyone with a brain and Google can find out how to burn a binary to an EPROM. Add a little financial resources and our brainy Googler can produce finished cartridges. Right now, before Melody.

 

I can certainly understand why Party A would want to keep Party B from producing and selling cartridges made using Party A's intellectual property without Party A's permission, but how, exactly, would restricting the wide sale of the Melody Cartridge stop that from happening?

 

The answer, of course, is that it won't. The question of the wide availability of the Melody Cartridge thus becomes not whether infringement is possible, but instead how easy it is. This renders the infringement issue moot because there will always be someone smart enough to do it or rich enough to have it done.

 

I'm actually kind of surprised you raised that specter. After all, look where you are: AtariAge is almost completely antithetical to that restrictionist idea. The sole exceptions to this would be: a) if a homebrewer engaged AtariAge to produce and sell cartridges but didn't want the binary released to the public; that would be his/her choice and I know that Albert would honor his/her wishes, and b) the cases where copyright holders of classic games have demanded AtariAge remove binaries from the software list.

 

Those cases aside, of all the homebrews published here, many (most?) of them are developed in the open, taking suggestions (and help) from members, and the release binaries (not to mention the myriad WIP binaries) are posted publicly.

 

In fact, from what I've seen here AtariAge is devoted to the open exchange of information. Whether it's the forums, the articles, the software list with descriptions and binaries, it seems AtariAge's mantra is openness. This is what makes AtariAge one of the greatest places on the web, IMHO.

 

But what disturbs me most about your statement is the phrase, "trusted individuals." That, sir, is the beginning of an adventure down a very dark road.

 

Exactly who are the "trusted individuals?" How are they chosen? Furthermore, who gets to choose these elite trustees?

 

Please understand, I have the utmost admiration and respect for you and the other names who've taken their time and resources to produce this marvelous device. But the road to ruin is littered with the failed ideas of the most trustworthy of individuals with the best of intentions: The Soviet Union and the DMCA are two examples that spring to mind.

 

Should you choose the dark road, who's to stop someone else from designing a similar device and making it available to the public? Then the question moves from how easy the aforementioned infringement would be to how soon it happens.

 

Ultimately, I just don't think this restriction is necessary. Sure, someone could make cartridges of someone else's game, but considering the market for Atari 2600 games, how many could he realistically hope to sell? Furthermore, where would he sell them? If he tried to sell them in the open such as on eBay or at classic videogame meets, he would be spotted in a heartbeat. He would be outed and shunned by the small but vigilant AtariAge community.

 

So I ask you, nay, I beg you: PLEASE don't go all RIAA on the AtariAge community. We don't deserve it and, judging by your reputation here, neither do you.

 

-tet

I was hoping to not have to explain, but here we go. There ARE homebrew games for sale on eBay, and on websites, all created and sold without permission of the authors and without any royalties paid. My homebrews have been sold as well and I was never even asked about it. We don't want these people to have unfettered access to Melody carts, plain and simple.

 

Of course it is easy to burn EPROMs but we feel these people are not capable of designing and building RAM carts and it's unlikely they would copy the design of Melody. A homebrew author can simply use extra RAM or other Melody features and it is unlikely that these homebrews will ever be sold without permission as long as we have some control over who gets Melody carts.

 

Despite what you said about being ousted by the community, these individuals keep doing this and some members here still buy from them.

 

It is really sad that it has to be this way, but I really do not want to support those individuals in any way.

[disjaukifa]

 

I was hoping to not have to explain, but here we go. There ARE homebrew games for sale on eBay, and on websites, all created and sold without permission of the authors and without any royalties paid. My homebrews have been sold as well and I was never even asked about it. We don't want these people to have unfettered access to Melody carts, plain and simple.

 

Of course it is easy to burn EPROMs but we feel these people are not capable of designing and building RAM carts and it's unlikely they would copy the design of Melody. A homebrew author can simply use extra RAM or other Melody features and it is unlikely that these homebrews will ever be sold without permission as long as we have some control over who gets Melody carts.

 

Despite what you said about being ousted by the community, these individuals keep doing this and some members here still buy from them.

 

It is really sad that it has to be this way, but I really do not want to support those individuals in any way.

 

I agree with batari 100% on this, its sad that you have to do that batari, but again I think its necessary. Thanks again for all the hard work you guys put into the Harmony/Melody!!! Question about the Melody and I guess the Atari 2600 in general, since you have bank switching would it be theoretically possible to have a 64k or even a 128k game??? I know that is an absurd amount of bank switching but still I have been wondering if it were possible.

 

Thanks

-Disjaukifa

[+batari]

 

I was hoping to not have to explain, but here we go. There ARE homebrew games for sale on eBay, and on websites, all created and sold without permission of the authors and without any royalties paid. My homebrews have been sold as well and I was never even asked about it. We don't want these people to have unfettered access to Melody carts, plain and simple.

 

Of course it is easy to burn EPROMs but we feel these people are not capable of designing and building RAM carts and it's unlikely they would copy the design of Melody. A homebrew author can simply use extra RAM or other Melody features and it is unlikely that these homebrews will ever be sold without permission as long as we have some control over who gets Melody carts.

 

Despite what you said about being ousted by the community, these individuals keep doing this and some members here still buy from them.

 

It is really sad that it has to be this way, but I really do not want to support those individuals in any way.

 

I agree with batari 100% on this, its sad that you have to do that batari, but again I think its necessary. Thanks again for all the hard work you guys put into the Harmony/Melody!!! Question about the Melody and I guess the Atari 2600 in general, since you have bank switching would it be theoretically possible to have a 64k or even a 128k game??? I know that is an absurd amount of bank switching but still I have been wondering if it were possible.

 

Thanks

-Disjaukifa

It depends. The Melody has 32k of ROM and 8k of RAM, so by itself it can support up to 32k directly and immediately.

 

If you add a serial EEPROM to the board, you can expand that ROM to as much as 4 MB. Serial EEPROMs cost anywhere from about 50 cents to a few dollars. The game can fully use that 4 MB but not directly and immediately, so it could be used to store level data, or code that is copied at the beginning of a new level or something.

 

If you want to develop a game using the EEPROM on a Harmony and then sell on a Melody cart you can. The Harmony has a 512k EEPROM. A 512k EEPROM would add less than a dollar to the cost of the Melody board so it's totally feasible to create such a game (and I have plans to do just that eventually.)

[disjaukifa]

 

I was hoping to not have to explain, but here we go. There ARE homebrew games for sale on eBay, and on websites, all created and sold without permission of the authors and without any royalties paid. My homebrews have been sold as well and I was never even asked about it. We don't want these people to have unfettered access to Melody carts, plain and simple.

 

Of course it is easy to burn EPROMs but we feel these people are not capable of designing and building RAM carts and it's unlikely they would copy the design of Melody. A homebrew author can simply use extra RAM or other Melody features and it is unlikely that these homebrews will ever be sold without permission as long as we have some control over who gets Melody carts.

 

Despite what you said about being ousted by the community, these individuals keep doing this and some members here still buy from them.

 

It is really sad that it has to be this way, but I really do not want to support those individuals in any way.

 

I agree with batari 100% on this, its sad that you have to do that batari, but again I think its necessary. Thanks again for all the hard work you guys put into the Harmony/Melody!!! Question about the Melody and I guess the Atari 2600 in general, since you have bank switching would it be theoretically possible to have a 64k or even a 128k game??? I know that is an absurd amount of bank switching but still I have been wondering if it were possible.

 

Thanks

-Disjaukifa

It depends. The Melody has 32k of ROM and 8k of RAM, so by itself it can support up to 32k directly and immediately.

 

If you add a serial EEPROM to the board, you can expand that ROM to as much as 4 MB. Serial EEPROMs cost anywhere from about 50 cents to a few dollars. The game can fully use that 4 MB but not directly and immediately, so it could be used to store level data, or code that is copied at the beginning of a new level or something.

 

If you want to develop a game using the EEPROM on a Harmony and then sell on a Melody cart you can. The Harmony has a 512k EEPROM. A 512k EEPROM would add less than a dollar to the cost of the Melody board so it's totally feasible to create such a game (and I have plans to do just that eventually.)

 

See I was thinking about making a MASSIVE game with a ton a levels, the code for it is not all that difficult, but I wanted to have like 60ish levels, just something massive!!! I'm glad to know the Harmony/Melody can handle it.

 

One more question Batari. I know you can do set romsize 2k ~ 32k would you just do like set romsize 64k ~ 4096K???

 

Thanks Batari!!!

 

-Disjaukifa

[+batari]

See I was thinking about making a MASSIVE game with a ton a levels, the code for it is not all that difficult, but I wanted to have like 60ish levels, just something massive!!! I'm glad to know the Harmony/Melody can handle it.

 

One more question Batari. I know you can do set romsize 2k ~ 32k would you just do like set romsize 64k ~ 4096K???

 

Thanks Batari!!!

 

-Disjaukifa

We don't quite have all of the code together for this just yet. It would not act as 64k-4096k of contiguous code, however, you would need special functions to use and swap in the data.

 

It should be possible to use a nominal size of 32k or another scheme up to 32k for your normal game data, but there could be an extra 4k bank for the extended data. The 4k bank would start out blank. It could act like a normal bank except its contents could be swapped with 4k of data from the EEPROM using a special function. I am not sure how long it would take to swap a 4k block of data from the EEPROM, but I'm pretty sure it would not be fast enough to happen without blanking the screen for a few frames, so it would have to occur at a level transition or something.

 

I could examine some of our existing code and estimate how fast it could be.