My opinion as a coleco owner and homebrewer

[opcode]

Let me put things this way... as a gamer you have the right to come here and post your thoughts about the work of every homebrewer in the scene, as a programmer, while technically you have the same right, I don't think that would be very ethical or polite.

Want an example? Here is my opinion in case you want to know: I think board games suck, mini-game collections are just a bad excuse for poor and lazy programming, and arcade ports are the way to go with the ColecoVision, because it is the "arcade quality system" after all... so what? Wants more?

You are not the CV homebrew guru you like to think you are, you are just someone that likes to publicly diminish people's work or list people you once helped just to make you look good or demand things that aren’t of your business. That is my opinion...

If you don't like what you see in the scene, go change that with new games... (again my opinion)

BTW, your English has improved a lot... good job. (but that is just my opinion)

 

What was the goal of this thread?

At first, it was me giving my opinion as a coleco owner and homebrewer, and because it's part of an active forum, a discussion started. So far, various interventions keep this thread alive.

 

Instead of hearing only my opinion, it's interresting to hear others' opinion too.

 

Well, maybe I should say it once for all to be clear, I don't have any jealousy whatsoever toward any Coleco programmers. I do know it's almost impossible to do something totally original, but I try anyway. I do think that new games for the console should be games not already available. And I do understand that saying this can be interpreted as jealousy, but it's not. It's simply my opinion, it's like telling you my favorite ice cream, it can be the same or different than yours.

 

I don't hate any of you, or any of your projects.

 

And as for ignoring others, i don't do that because I believe it's in our interrest to share information, to get feedbacks, to test different projects, etc.

 

A few examples : I did follow the progression of PkK's work, and I remember he disappears for months and then back again to finally make his devkit and his first Coleco games. Because of PkK, I'm now using SDCC for my devkit; he did help me a lot to make this evolution and I thank him for that. Before PkK, I was contacted by many new Coleco programmers, and I did try to help them, even when I had problems myself. I did fix an important bug in CVDrum, and just in time for the official release; the bug was using ROM as RAM. I did a long technical support to help S.E.T. with his project Amazing Snake ( I suggested him to use this title ), and at the end he said to me that the game was more my game after all. I was one of the first testers for Opcode's Space Invaders Collection project and I was very enthousiast, giving him a warning about a different result (more glitchy) when running it with a Dina 2-in-1 console. I can't forget Scott Huggins, I did help him once and I was not helping once because of lack of free time and problem to write in english which cause a misunderstanding, but it's fine now between us... still have to improve my english but I'm making progress.

 

This thread is about opinions. I'm giving mine, with the risk of getting bad comments. I assume the responsability of my choices and try to be better, keep learning english, z80 assembly and much more.

[newcoleco]

If I said something that was innapropriate or insulting, I'm very sorry and thanks to point it out to my attention. If I did something bad to anybody here, let me know, and I'm sorry in advance.

 

To clarify something; I was using personal experiences as proof to demonstrate that I don't hate other programmers, sharing knowledge and helping others is friendly. I didn't expect a reaction "to make you look good". I don't want to be rude but Scott said the Coleco scene is friendly, PkK seems to agree, and me too... but not you. We have certainly different opinions, different objectives, using different strategies, getting different results, but that doesn't mean jealousy at all.

 

If the word guru means someone devoted with experience, sharing with others...

 

Yes, I did boardgames (Reversi, Pentago, Bejeweled), minigames (Gamepack#1, Canadian Minigames#1), and a collection of mini-boardgames with various AI and rules (Gamepack#2). I did also arcade-like games (Breakout, Dacman, Miss Space Fury, Jeepers Creepers, GhostBlaster), ports experiments (sokoban, video flipper), and more (I'll not list them all). My objective is to try various types of gaming for the ColecoVision, to see the possibilities, to see what I'm capable to do, to make my Coleco programming experience more complete.

 

I'll continue to promote creativity and originality, various experiences and game types, because I firmly believe it's what is missing in the games library, and it's the kind of homebrew games I want to do. Imagine a "Tower Defense"-like game, it's not an arcade game but a popular strategy-like game. Imagine a "star craft"-like game, not an arcade game but a real-time strategy game. Imagine a "zelda"-like game, more adventure than arcade, with saving progression. Imagine the possibilities.

Edited November 11, 2009 by newcoleco

[opcode]

If the word guru means someone devoted with experience, sharing with others...

You can believe whatever you want Mr Guru, just please leave me and my work out of your future posts.

[newcoleco]

I guess the story just repeats itself, again. Misunderstanding is so easy to get.

[opcode]

I guess the story just repeats itself, again. Misunderstanding is so easy to get.

 

Yep, the same old tactics, taunt and then go drama queen mode... And this time you exposed a lot of people. Worst, you took credit of other’s people work, how unethical.

Enough of you, to the ignore list you go...

[newcoleco]

Wow.

[newcoleco]

You know, this is the typical thread that shows how terribly ugly the CV homebrew scene is, with programmers that hate each other, lots of jealousy going on, people who likes to point fingers to someone else's work, never ending feuds and a lot more that I prefer not to mention here.

 

Is this really true? I don't see it.

5-11under

 

You don't see jealousy and hate... me too.

 

The CV homebrew scene is very active, with more programmers year after year, more games year after year, more programming tools year after year... you see the pattern. So, in my humble opinion, this is very good; the situation of the CV homebrew scene is very positive in fact.

[newcoleco]

Year 2010, Adamcon will be in Montreal, Canada, during the same week-end of my birthday, June 18.

Ah, so Guy has made progress with the hotel reservations? I keep forgetting to drop by the Adamcon chatroom on Wednesday nights. Truth be told, I don't have a lot of time to spend on socializing in chatrooms these days...

Well, I still have to contact the hotel he did find, asking if it's possible for the dates we selected. Because he's very close to the hotel, Guy will take a look inside the hotel and ask questions I'll certainly forget by being nerveous at the phone.

 

I'll tell everyone about the hotel reservation... as soon as I have positive news about it.

[newcoleco]

You will continue to always get a percentage of bad comments, do not concern yourself, do not try to figure it out and do not try to make sense of it, THEY ARE ASSHOLES, the world is full of people who offer nothing, ask for everything, bitch and complain, sadly that is just a fact of life. All that matters is you know what you are doing and why you are doing it, you owe nobody any explanation. Do what you enjoy and there are many that will appreciate your work and efforts, everyone one else can go to hell.

 

Thanks for these words, it's very appreciated!

 

Threatening someone to eternal torture is not in my nature, but I understand the idea.

Edited November 12, 2009 by newcoleco

[newcoleco]

In 2008, I didn't submit a game to the minigame compo, but I did it this year. I hope I'll get more votes than the last time, which should be easy unless if the regular voters decided to boycott the compo or simply lack of interrest. I did read somewhere that the minigame compo seems to be not as active as before, I hope it's not the case.

 

The idea behind a minigame is to fit a gameplay with graphics and sounds into a smaller place than normal, using optimisation tricks like compression and multipurpose routines to get sometimes incredible results. At first, I did take the minigames idea as a way for me to improve my programming skills, and to optimize even more my libraries. I did minigames before participating to the compo, to test my updates in libraries and tools, but that's another story. My participation this year is in the hope to get more visibility to the Coleco homebrew scene with an insanely insulting funny minigame with no way to win... seems to be a contradiction but it's a casual gaming concept with humor.

[+5-11under]

You know, this is the typical thread that shows how terribly ugly the CV homebrew scene is, with programmers that hate each other, lots of jealousy going on, people who likes to point fingers to someone else's work, never ending feuds and a lot more that I prefer not to mention here.

 

Is this really true? I don't see it.

5-11under

 

You don't see jealousy and hate... me too.

 

The CV homebrew scene is very active, with more programmers year after year, more games year after year, more programming tools year after year... you see the pattern. So, in my humble opinion, this is very good; the situation of the CV homebrew scene is very positive in fact.

 

I saw something today... anyway, it's definitely an exciting time, with lots of new (and old - Penguin Land and Fireman) games newly available in 2009.

 

Have fun everyone,

5-11under

[newcoleco]

After watching again and again reviews about how bad games based on full motion video (FMV) may be, I suppose we can at least say that a FMV game can be good, like Dragon's Lair. I know, Dragon's Lair was done for the Coleco Adam computer and not as a FMV game but I guess there was no way to make the game the same way as the arcade... or we consider a module may have been done to make it possible if only the video games crash never happends.

 

I know that Coleco Adam users did try to display motion pictures like animated GIF. I did try my own FMV experimentations but more like MPEG videos, but the result is huge memory needed for a very short and tiny clip to fit into a normal Coleco cartridge size 32K. Now there's PCBs that can handle more ROM space, with small delay for bankswitching... should this extra space mean that an elaborate FMV game could be made for the ColecoVision? I don't know, but I guess it could be interresting to try something.

 

In 2004, I did some Coleco movie-clips tests; made my own conversion tool, codec and player... and the result was not bad but need a lot of memory (ROM).

[Kiwi]

Were you watching Spoony's video review ? Well there are good FMV out there like Rebel Assault 1(prefers the Sega CD version due to the control) and 2, Slipheed, 7th Guest. They all focus on Gameplay rather rely on pretty FMV graphics.

 

Doing Dragon's Lair on the Colecovision would be difficult. If someone managed to hook up a CD rom to feed the FMV data to Colecovision, then FMV would be possible. I remember seeing a video of a commodore64 doing FMV video while the CD-rom fed it data. Cartridge version of FMV Dragon's Lair does exist for the GBC, but it is on a 4MB chip. On colecovision, I guess the BG can be static and tiled while the sprite can be animation, it would be difficult to do, but might be possible. Or, It can go with choose your adventure style where the graphics are above and the text being below explaining your situation, then give you like 20 possible choices and one choice would be the right one. It will just be like Star Trek: Borg. I think that game design will work with 32KB or ROM space.

 

I am interested of getting my hands on some homebrew games. It all depends on the game itself, port or no port. If it looks good and fun to play, then I would get it. Also it can be difficult to buy it due to limited copy of it.

 

I gotta get my hands on programming the CV. If I can get my hands on I.C.V.G.M.(Geocities shut down). Then I can start making character set.

[newcoleco]

Were you watching Spoony's video review ? Well there are good FMV out there like Rebel Assault 1(prefers the Sega CD version due to the control) and 2, Slipheed, 7th Guest. They all focus on Gameplay rather rely on pretty FMV graphics.

Yes, I've watched about ten times every review Noah (aka Spoonyone) does. I've also watched a full motion video demo for the Commodore 64 based on a video clip "Sabrina - Boys Boys Boys". If a demo for the Commodore 64 can use full motion video, why not ColecoVision? The major obstacle how to store the data in an efficient way that can be used by the console. So far, my experiments on full motion videos for the ColecoVision is limited to very tiny clips, like animated GIF files.

Doing Dragon's Lair on the Colecovision would be difficult. If someone managed to hook up a CD rom to feed the FMV data to Colecovision, then FMV would be possible. I remember seeing a video of a commodore64 doing FMV video while the CD-rom fed it data. Cartridge version of FMV Dragon's Lair does exist for the GBC, but it is on a 4MB chip. On colecovision, I guess the BG can be static and tiled while the sprite can be animation, it would be difficult to do, but might be possible. Or, It can go with choose your adventure style where the graphics are above and the text being below explaining your situation, then give you like 20 possible choices and one choice would be the right one. It will just be like Star Trek: Borg. I think that game design will work with 32KB or ROM space.

Building a 4MB cartridge for the ColecoVision... I don't know if it's possible, probably but we don't know if the software and hardware will work together well, making the bank switching almost transparent to the gameplay experience. Of course the graphics will not be like the arcade game, but something based on the Coleco graphics may be used, but this kind of project may took years to do.

I am interested of getting my hands on some homebrew games. It all depends on the game itself, port or no port. If it looks good and fun to play, then I would get it. Also it can be difficult to buy it due to limited copy of it.

 

I gotta get my hands on programming the CV. If I can get my hands on I.C.V.G.M.(Geocities shut down). Then I can start making character set.

You asked for it!

 

ICVGM for DOS and Windows, now available again!

 

http://newcoleco.dev-fr.org/p4179/2009-12-02-editeur-graphic-i-c-v-g-m.html

[Kiwi]

 

You asked for it!

 

ICVGM for DOS and Windows, now available again!

 

http://newcoleco.dev-fr.org/p4179/2009-12-02-editeur-graphic-i-c-v-g-m.html

 

AWESOME!!! Thank you very much!!!

 

Just made this in an hour Just playing around with the color limitation of the colecovision.

[Kiwi]

"Sabrina - boy boy boy" is pretty impressive and I can't stop watching that demo for some reason... Anyway, I was referring to "Rush" by Singular crew, http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=50183. I had to look for it since I forgot the name of the production. The sound and video are streaming off the CD. Very impressive video though.

[cdoty]

4 - Some ColecoVision owners are probably looking at what I've done so far and think that I'm generous with my time, knowledge, documents, tools, source codes, but also think that I'm an asshole who can't maintain a web site and spread remarks like bullets that doesn't match their opinions. My answer is : I'm sorry, you're totally right to think different than me on many subjects, but it's not necessary to insult me to make your point. I may look like a dictator who want to impose his point of view, but what I'm really doing is simply sharing my point of view with you. We know that an opinion is something personal, and we can't discuss rationnaly about what you prefer compared to what I prefer, it's a personal choice. So, if you did feel insulted with this message, please calm down, it was not my intention to do so.

 

I would say anyone that says that "you are an asshole", has no concept of the effort that goes into releasing a game for a classic platform. It would be nice if they took a few minutes of time to truly understand the time involved.

[newcoleco]

It's year 2010 now and the future we imagine in the past is somehow far from what the future seems to be actually. We are not ready yet to stay somewhere else than on Earth, we don't have flying cars yet, and arcade machines are not like holodecks (yet). With this incredibly long introduction, what can be the future of ColecoVision homebrew scene?

 

Before year 2000, we did experimentations about ColecoVision homebrew games, emulators and also different hardwares like a ram cartridge and multicarts. After year 2000, we did more ColecoVision homebrew games, emulators, and also different hardwares like usb multicarts. So, there was not a big change except that we got more experiences, more programmers and more possibilities. What could we expect from now? Well, a first homebrew ColecoVision clone is possibly the biggest thing to come in the near future. What else? There are more programmers than before, so we may expect a variety of new games for the console, easy. What about a return of one of the original ColecoVision programmers to a videogame meeting signing a newly released game for the console, like Matt H. signing Moon Patrol carts (maybe, maybe not).

 

What do you think will happend this year, in a year, or even in 2 years from now for the ColecoVision game system?

 

My prediction last year was a lack of interrest after the explosion of new games we had last year. Many of you told me that new games are still coming, so my prediction is wrong. Well, considering that gamers-collectors had to make choices when there was many new games at once last year, this give a critical situation where a programmer can feel a lack of support and decide to stop. Another possiblity is the demands always growing for even higher quality ColecoVision games/boxes/etc which can gives a headache/burnout to some ColecoVision programmers/publishers and leave the active scene. To get more support, we need more visibility, more supporters. There are 2 solutions : 1- more active ColecoVision collectors-gamers, which can be accomplish by releasing a clone game system. 2- making a special event with publicity, like asking Matt to be at a special event to sign cartridges of the Moon Patrol he did program in 1984. The gain of visibility and/or consoles to play ColecoVision homebrew games will gives the support the scene need to continue. So, it's up to you and us to keep going, or unfortunately make my prediction comes true.

 

Happy new year to everybody who's reading this message, even if it's in June 2015.

[youki]

I predict that in 2010 Coleco owner could have a very good surprise!

 

and you're right, we need more visibility.

 

-a new CV

-new games (done, not announced...)

-a maximum of review in magazine , website and blog to show that the CV scene exists , is very active and produce good games.

 

And what we would need is a way to produce our cart , box and manual at very low cost

 

I think if we could reach a selling price for CIB cart bellow 30 USD , it would help some people to come back to C.V.

 

Happy new year too!

[newcoleco]

We do live in a period where emulators are very popular and specially when talking about playing game for vintage consoles like Colecovision. As you may know, I do publish my rom files as well as cartridges, even publishing some of my source codes. My goal is still to keep the Coleco scene alive by gaining visibility and new programmers, and I find my way working pretty good so far. That's a personal choice, sharing passion and knowledge, and I feel happy about it. I know that I'll not always be there and offering my help, tools and games is my contribution. Hopefully, I'm not the only one who does share their games, tools, and knowledge (documentations, sources, etc.), but I personally think it's not enough sharing. For example, where is the kit to program Coleco games in assembly codes? or even in Pascal? I can think of Norman Nithman commented disassembled codes back in year 1996, and some efforts by people from the ADAM computer users part, but practically nothing from active Coleco programmers.

[PkK]

We do live in a period where emulators are very popular and specially when talking about playing game for vintage consoles like Colecovision. As you may know, I do publish my rom files as well as cartridges, even publishing some of my source codes. My goal is still to keep the Coleco scene alive by gaining visibility and new programmers, and I find my way working pretty good so far. That's a personal choice, sharing passion and knowledge, and I feel happy about it. I know that I'll not always be there and offering my help, tools and games is my contribution. Hopefully, I'm not the only one who does share their games, tools, and knowledge (documentations, sources, etc.), but I personally think it's not enough sharing. For example, where is the kit to program Coleco games in assembly codes? or even in Pascal? I can think of Norman Nithman commented disassembled codes back in year 1996, and some efforts by people from the ADAM computer users part, but practically nothing from active Coleco programmers.

 

Well, it will probably take a long time (I currently don't even find time to complete my games), but an equivalent to my C libraries for another language (maybe Scheme) is still on my list of things to do.

 

Philipp

[Pixelboy]

Well, it will probably take a long time (I currently don't even find time to complete my games), but an equivalent to my C libraries for another language (maybe Scheme) is still on my list of things to do.

Funny you should say that, because I'm currently working on something on my end. Nothing solid, just a theoretical project that I will present within a couple of days on this very forum. Stay tuned.

[Vic George 2K3]

Homebrews certainly are collectibles, even those that we'll never see a ROM dump for.

[WatchVenusSpa]

Hey Daniel,

 

I wanted to chime in on the programmer/homebrewer discussion with some thoughts and questions.

 

I was watching the Angry Video Game Nerd "DoubleVision" episode, (the 2 parter where he discussed the history of and the hardware of the Intellivision and the ColecoVision,) and mentioned that the ColecoVision system is actually compatable with Sega Genesis controllers. Have you and other programmers considered programming games with the Genesis controller in mind as opposed to the classic CV joystick? One would think you could really expand on what has already been great gameplay with a few minor adjustments to accomidate more sophisticated controllers.

 

With emulators becoming so popular, what is your opinion on CV iPhone aps? That would be a great way to market retro games.

[newcoleco]

I was watching the Angry Video Game Nerd "DoubleVision" episode, (the 2 parter where he discussed the history of and the hardware of the Intellivision and the ColecoVision,) and mentioned that the ColecoVision system is actually compatable with Sega Genesis controllers. Have you and other programmers considered programming games with the Genesis controller in mind as opposed to the classic CV joystick? One would think you could really expand on what has already been great gameplay with a few minor adjustments to accomidate more sophisticated controllers.

To my knowledge, I think there is only one homebrew game that consider using a Sega Genesis controller to play, without even the need of a regular Coleco controller in the second port or a numkey addons, and it's GhostBlaster. All the other homebrew ColecoVision games, including DACMAN, can be somehow played with a Genesis controller, but soon or later you'll need to press a key, like at the end of the game, you've to press * or # to play again or not. So far, specially the arcade ports, need the numeric keys to select the number of players or to simulate inserting a coin. And because the secondary fire button for a Coleco controller is not the same as one of the fire buttons on a Sega Genesis controller, the Coleco homebrew game can only use the directions and the primary fire button. GhostBlaster was programmed in this consideration by offering the possiblity to use the numeric keys or the joystick to select options, and one option is about using or not the secondary fire button to jump. But if we want to use the secret code in GhostBlaster or to pause the game, you need the numeric keypad, so it's not absolutely numeric keypad free if you want all the possibilities, but you don't absolutely need the pause button or to use the secret code to enjoy GhostBlaster.

 

With emulators becoming so popular, what is your opinion on CV iPhone aps? That would be a great way to market retro games.

I know that Telegames does (or did?) have the rights for the majority of the Colecovision games we all love playing again, which is probably the consequence of being one of those who bought Coleco Industries during its bankruptcy. And I know that Telegames doesn't have the rights on the ColecoVision bios, and nobody seems to know it. That's why we didn't see a tvgame like an Atari flashback with ColecoVision games in it, it's because of all the licensed games and the cost of production.

 

As far as I understand the rules of what could be or not an iPhone application, emulators in the way we use it is prohibited. There is a well know case of a valid and legal Commodore 64 emulator, but because it was intended to be used with external files, it was rejected "as is" and I don't know what happends to the project after that. As for the technical possibility to make a ColecoVision emulator, I think it's already done, but not legal based on the rules of the iPhone apps store. However, if we use an emulator with built-in games we have the rights to use, like if I contact the author of the ColecoVision emulator for the iPhone and convince to make a package deal with my games included inside the application, it could be spread by the iPhone apps store legally.