Bump N Jump on 2600 Rocks!

[liquid_sky]

stan, shouldnt you thank someone that gave you the advice to pick the game up?

[StanJr]

yeah, ok. Thanks to the person who gave me the extra nudge to go ahead and pick BUMP N' JUMP up, (ended up only costing me $2, instead of $3)

 

it STILL rocks by the way. Best M-Network game?

[liquid_sky]

its one of my faves from the m-network games i have played

[slapdash]

Once you get sick of smashing cars and jumping cars(if that is possible), you can always try to avoid all the cars and score 50k each round...

 

Believe me, that's the first thing I tried, since I'm a big fan of the arcade game and would never have rolled it without that trick.

 

But my objection with the game is that jumping is totally unpredictable, meaning you can't reliably clear any river the way you should be able to.

 

Picture the levels where you have to jump onto a small island and back off to the road... On the arcade game, I know I need to be doing at least ~150 MPH, but not over ~200. In the 2600 version, you can pick 180 and sometimes make it, other times crash. That's just crap. Because this is an arcade game I know the ins and outs of, and because jumping is pretty crucial with regards to winning strategy, this is both a personal annoyance AND a deterrent against high scores. Very, very disappointing.

[StanJr]

BAH! You know too much! I revel in my stupidity and I LOVE the game.

 

This is the problem with knowing WAY too much about a video game.

[MegaManFan]

BAH!  You know too much!  I revel in my stupidity and I LOVE the game. This is the problem with knowing WAY too much about a video game.

 

His point is valid though. It's the same reason I get pissy about the 2600 version of Mr. Do! If you know the right way to play a game, and the 2600 version is so badly designed it doesn't emulate those essential game qualities despite carrying the same name, how much fun is it going to be? That's when you're better off playing the game with MAME or a computer version (Atari, Commodore, PC) instead, because you won't be frustrated that the things you learned are totally useless to the home version.

[StanJr]

If you know the right way to play a game

 

Since when is there a "right" or "wrong" way to play a video game? And for that matter, who says the 2600 version has to match the arcade exactly? Perhaps there is a different "right" way to play 2600 Mr. Do! and 2600 Bump N Jump?

 

See this is what I mean. I've been playing Mr. Do! on the VCS since I was a kid (and I played the arcade as well). And I have LOVED it. I may not know the "right" way to play either one, but I do know that I LOVE to play it. I guess maybe I'm not looking for a perfect arcade translation, I'm just looking for a fun game to play. Same with Bump N Jump.

 

Just because you fellas know how to max out the arcade with the "right" way to play, doesn't mean the same strategy HAS to work on the VCS. For me, both games are similar enough to the arcade that they well represent the game concept. I don't seem to mind the differences, I guess

[MegaManFan]

Since when is there a "right" or "wrong" way to play a video game?

 

Since the first time somebody realized you could count off shots to get the best UFO in Space Invaders, there has always been a "right" way. When you can quantify something that happens the same way every time if you do the same thing, and you get the max points and don't die as a result of doing it, that's what's "right." If "right" didn't exist in video games, there would never have been a Ken Uston book on How to Win at Pac-Man.

 

Now I would argue that video game makers in the mid to late 80's started to realize that it was too easy for gamers to master the patterns and play a perfect game, so they intentionally tried to add more randomness and AI to gameplay. As a result it's become a battle of oneupsmanship as gamers find the "right" way to play and manufacturers find the "right" way to keep us from mastering them. This trend has continued onto home consoles nicely and I for one am happy about that. It's a careful balance - you want a game to be challenging enough to be entertaining (see some RPG's) but you also don't want it to be so hard you can't master it even w/ extrordinary effort (see also some RPG's).

 

 

 And for that matter, who says the 2600 version has to match the arcade exactly?  Perhaps there is a different "right" way to play 2600 Mr. Do! and 2600 Bump N Jump?

 

Granted, there's a "right" way to play the home versions I'm sure. You can't escape the fact though that these are supposed to be ports of the arcade games, and their failure to emulate the "right" techniques means the port is lackluster. I don't blame this on 2600 hardware, because I've seen some amazing software that really maxes out the potential of this often underrated machine. I blame it on programmers who were lazy and/or in a hurry and decided that if it looked APPROXIMATELY like the arcade game and sounded a LITTLE like the arcade game that most people would go, "Eh good enough."

 

 

See this is what I mean.  I've been playing Mr. Do! on the VCS since I was a kid (and I played the arcade as well).  And I have LOVED it.  I may not know the "right" way to play either one, but I do know that I LOVE to play it.  I guess maybe I'm not looking for a perfect arcade translation, I'm just looking for a fun game to play.  Same with Bump N Jump.

 

I'm not even saying perfect arcade ports are a necessity. Often intentionally or otherwise un-perfect ports end up being more fun. However, and this is the whole point, it all depends on your frame of reference. If you grew up playing VCS Mr. Do! you'd probably think it was fantastic, but if you tried to play any other Mr. Do! game the way you play it on VCS you'd screw up and die quick. Agreed? Now flip that around in the other direction and maybe you'll see what we mean; except realize that VCS strategy works ONLY for VCS but Mr. Do! strategy works for ALL VERSIONS OF MR. DO! EXCEPT THE 2600. When you can learn how to play Mr. Do! successfully in the arcade, on a ColecoVision, on a Super Nintendo, or on a Gameboy and have those strategies successfully translate from one to the other, that says to me they're all good ports. The fact that NONE of these strategies work on 2600 Mr. Do! suggests (at least to me) that 2600 Mr. Do! is an INFERIOR and SHODDILY MADE version of the game.

 

Just because you fellas know how to max out the arcade with the "right" way to play, doesn't mean the same strategy HAS to work on the VCS.  For me, both games are similar enough to the arcade that they well represent the game concept.  I don't seem to mind the differences, I guess

 

No. You might make that argument for Bump'n'Jump, especially since I don't know the arcade game well at all, but Mr. Do! on 2600 doesn't even count as "similar enough to the arcade." It's a completely different game, and not one that's unintentionally better but one that's definitely WORSE.

[StanJr]

Ah, but once you learn and master the "right" way to play a game, where is the fun in that game any more? Why play it?

 

I would perfer to know as little about the "right" way to play a game as I possibly can, seems to me the right way is the least fun way.

 

And for the record, I STILL like Mr. Do! for the VCS, regardless of whether or not its a crappy port of the arcade game.

[MegaManFan]

Ah, but once you learn and master the "right" way to play a game, where is the fun in that game any more?  Why play it?

 

I can think of several reasons:

1. To prove to yourself you still know how to do it.

2. To improve your previous best high score (if possible).

3. To enjoy the sights and sounds (why Pac-Man is so replayable).

 

I would perfer to know as little about the "right" way to play a game as I possibly can, seems to me the right way is the least fun way.

 

Learning how to play a game the best way you can isn't fun? What's the point in firing off at random and dying in futility? I say GO FOR THE GUSTO and get the best score you can. THAT is fun.

 

And for the record, I STILL like Mr. Do! for the VCS, regardless of whether or not its a crappy port of the arcade game.

 

So we'll just agree to disagree on that one Stan.

[slapdash]

who says the 2600 version has to match the arcade exactly?

 

Not even I would be so bold, as I understand the limitations of the VCS, and even "back then" I knew there would be sacrifices.

 

Just because you fellas know how to max out the arcade with the "right" way to play, doesn't mean the same strategy HAS to work on the VCS.

 

I think perhaps that when I used the arcade game as an example, you missed my point. It's not about maxing out a game, really. It was more about explaining the playability problem from an example I'm cognizant of. Let me take a different tack...

 

Think of Vanguard... There's an area where these blocks move in and out of a channel, and in order to get through it, you have to time it right so that the blocks are at/near their maximum width out, right? Now, I've never played Vanguard in the arcade, so it may be pretty faithful, it may not be. But now picture that instead of flowing gently back and forth as they normally did, they just suddenly slammed shut on you out of the blue. Wouldn't you feel cheated?

 

See, what I was getting at is that in the arcade, I was able to develop the skills to get high scores. I knew from experience how fast I have to be going to jump from a particular spot to land on another spot. I certainly don't know every point to every other point, but I've got some general ideas for the areas that come up a lot.

 

When I bought the VCS version, I certainly never expected the speeds, or the areas, or whatever, to be the same as the arcade. I never believed that because of how good I was in the arcade, that I'd be that good at the VCS version, right away, soon after, or ever. But I did expect that it would at least be predictable, since the geometry of the roads should more or less be consistent, and so with consistent speed, the resulting calculated (and more likely looked up) distance of a jump should also be consistent.

 

It's not. It's the equivalent of a slamming door that normally has a pattern to it, but every now and then just slams shut on you. In other words, it's an artificial, though probably not intentional, way of limiting your ability to score well even when you know the game inside and out. In other words, there's no pattern to be found, no matter how good you get. I don't mind randomness in games, but not where it shouldn't be random. That's just bad design. In this case I rather think it's sloppy coding instead (possibly the distance is actually related to the frame rate/lines on screen, which gets messed up occasionally), but the result is the same -- my enjoyment just gets sucked away.

 

Mind you, for other games, I'd just decide the game was crap, throw it in a box never to be played again, and get on with my life with no comment. But Bump N Jump is a game I love, so the disappointment of a shoddy game is deepened, and so I must comment.

 

Do you see know what I mean? It has nothing to do with how well I know the arcade game except possibly for why I responded to this thread...

[joeybastard]

I'm not sure about this "right way" stuff. Figuring out the different strategies for different platforms is part of the fun.

 

I like Bump and Jump and Mr.Do on the VCS. The CV versions are better and more faithful to the arcade but so what?

 

On the contrast of arcade vs. home, look at Choplifter. I think the arcarde one blows but the CV version is kick ass and came first. Same thing for that Sega Pitfall I downloaded for MAME a while ago. It was terrible. It's not that the startegies are slightly different like B&J/Mr.Do, the games are way different to the point they should probably have different names.

[slapdash]

I'm not sure about this "right way" stuff.  Figuring out the different strategies for different platforms is part of the fun.

 

I think maybe you were posting at the same time I was, but still this gives me one more chance to make my point...

 

Forget the "right way", as I would not be surprised if VCS Bump N Jump were to have a different "right way" from the arcade. But the problem is I see it is that there is no possible "right way" for the VCS version -- you can't figure out a strategy because the randomness of jumping makes strategy impossible -- it all comes down to luck instead, which is artificially limiting. THAT'S what I find so damning about the game...

[Goochman]

You must also love the fireball level on DK then

 

Esp at later levels when the fireball jumps over the open rivot areas - even more random fun

[NE146]

I think 2600 Bump and Jump is a more righteous translation than say.. a game like Amidar. To my 2600 expectations, some variation and differences in gameplay are acceptable and (like you said above) expected. (remember Defender? Hyperspace and smart bombs... *cough* ) I guess as long as the game ends up playable and fun.. which I think 2600 Bump and Jump is. However, something like Amidar, which is relatively faithful (in 2600 terms), is just an absolute dog when it comes down to the gameplay and the whole vibe of it.

 

Incidentally, want a game that's faithful and DOES IMPROVE your corresponding arcade gameplay? PB Qbert! Man you'd never get good at arcade Space Invaders by playing the 2600 version, but damn if I didn't absolutely master Q-Bert (arcade) by practicing it at home on the good old VCS

[MaxSpeed]

I gotta say,  

 

I played it on the emulator last night for the first time ever.  That was one of my favorite arcades back in the day, but man did the 2600 version ever come through!  Unreal, given the systmes limitations, how close they got it to the arcade.

 

What other games does the 2600 do that much justice to/for?  Just wondering what you all think.  Of course, when I went to make a copy of it, I discovered it was a 16K, probably some hard to duplicate bank switching, so much for an easy ZIF eprom cart!

 

Cassidy

I agree, this rocks !

[Godzilla]

the 2600 version of bump n jump, while certainley not a looker, is my favorite playing version. the whole game just feels juiced and the gameplay feels very well tuned. i can remember playing it for many long hours. and there are seceret paths on the sides that can help you get the big bonus (or was that the inty vers?) i played the inty version a bunch until i got the 2600 vers. then i never played the inty vers. again :-)

[slapdash]

the 2600 version of bump n jump, while certainley not a looker, is my favorite playing version. the whole game just feels juiced and the gameplay feels very well tuned. i can remember playing it for many long hours. and there are seceret paths on the sides that can help you get the big bonus (or was that the inty vers?) i played the inty version a bunch until i got the 2600 vers. then i never played the inty vers. again :-)

 

The secret road was in the Intellivision version.

 

The arcade game wraps around with no secret area. You CAN surviving a wrapping jump if you time it right, and there is one small path occasionally that you can drive across, but holy crap does that take luck, timing and skill all at once...

[VideoGameFreek]

I used to play this game so much, that as i'm typing this reply i've got the song playing in my head. :D

"do do do dododododo do do do":D:D

I miss playing that game.

[MaxSpeed]

When is a game no longer fun, I beleive after you have mastered it, disected every move, compare it with the same game on a more modern system. Personally I am glad I have never played Bump & Jump on any other system and am enjoying the hell out of it !