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Sneak Peak - Amiga Atari Design...


Curt Vendel

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best looking computer keyboard form factor ever sold.

 

Didn't feel too well, though. Those rubber keycaps were kind of ahead of their time in the sense that now all keyboards suck. It's just that people don't know any better.

 

I meant the look of the all in one keyboard design as opposed to a 3 box PC style of the Mega and A1000. The keyboard on the ST was OK, seems better than the one on my STFMs but not as good as the Megas.

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I actually think the Amiga 1000, with its recessed keyboard was pretty cool.

 

I also think the Atari Mega ST's were good looking, and the step up to the

Mega STe and TT030 cases was righteous - they are my favorites. Ira Valenski

got it just right. :)

Edited by DarkLord
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The VIC was cheap, & there were PETs in schools. Parents bought the VIC for their kids because it was a trivial investment, so that their kids might not grow up "Computer Illiterate". Sold units, but the machine was so bad that VERY FEW kids used it for anything, other than a stepping-stone to purchasing a C64, or going on to a bright future in Computer Illiteracy. lol. All of the 30-45 year olds that make up the so-called "Digital Divide", nowadays, were in all probability, VIC users. LOL!

 

 

Linus Torvald's first machine was a Vic-20. He seems fairly computer literate to me. :)

 

Actually, the Sinclair QL was his first computer. The Vic-20 was his grandfather's that he tooled around on and learned assembly with because he had become "bored with the few programs that were available for it" - the very same thing that drove everyone else to use it as a doorstop and move on to another computer. So I'd call him one of the exceptions. ;)

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Chicklet keys with a keyboard laid on top basicly, though I honestly don't dislike the "mushy" feel, my little brother prefers to use an older mechanical switch keyboard with his PC. (with that distinctive clicky feel and "sproingy" sound) I think that uses the "buckling spring" mechanism. (of course with that you get even more tictile and aural response than you otherwise would with a mechanical switch keyboard, although buckling spring mechanisms do tend to use therubber dome switches below the key, so the fundemental mechanism is still similar)

 

I'm just bitter about the latter-era Atari keyboards since the 800 and 1200XL keyboards were so superior. They had the metal spring feel of the PC keyboard but without the clacking (except for the spacebar on the 1200XL which was noisy as hell). People who wax nostalgic about the original IBM keyboards must never have used an 800 or 1200XL.

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The VIC was cheap, & there were PETs in schools. Parents bought the VIC for their kids because it was a trivial investment, so that their kids might not grow up "Computer Illiterate". Sold units, but the machine was so bad that VERY FEW kids used it for anything, other than a stepping-stone to purchasing a C64, or going on to a bright future in Computer Illiteracy. lol. All of the 30-45 year olds that make up the so-called "Digital Divide", nowadays, were in all probability, VIC users. LOL!

 

 

Linus Torvald's first machine was a Vic-20. He seems fairly computer literate to me. :)

 

Richard Stallman might beg to differ. lol. 

 

 

Actually, that explains A LOT! hahahaha,  good ol' Linus-VIC-Torvalds, didn't he write the VICux kernel? The real question is: "Do we pronounce it 'vicious' or "viscous". 

 

= )

 

 

Didn't Charles Schulz do a bunch of illustrations of him with his VIC?

 

OK, OK, I'll stop. Old habits die hard. lol.

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...the very same thing that drove everyone else to use it as a doorstop and move on to another computer. So I'd call him one of the exceptions. ;)

 

:roll:

 

Hours on this site without a Commodore slam: 3 0

 

:(

 

desiv

 

People who slag off the VIC show their ignorance as to it's purpose (and why it was unceremoniously killed off after the C64 was completed). It is a well known fact the VIC-20 was a cheap home computer designed merely as a diversionary tactic to put competitors off what Commodore really wanted to build to attack the home computer market (and at a cost that no other company could reverse engineer economically before they could pose a threat to its sales). It served it's purpose on many levels, especially keeping reverse engineering departments ready before the shock of the C64. These are all documented facts from the book Home Computer Wars. I think at 1/3 the price of a 16k A800 it didn't do too badly for a sacrificial lamb of a model. And people selling their VICs got C64s so hardly either bad as far as customers were concerned (otherwise they would have taken a 2nd mortgage and got an Atari 800 instead) or bad business plan by Jack ;)

 

It was a full blown computer for just $100 more than the popular VCS of 79 hence tapping into the 'responsible parent' sector of the market who didn't want their kids just playing computer games. It was so successful in fact that Jack was ready with plans to re-introduce something to replace it's bottom end of the market position sometime in 1983/4 with a $60 16k machine based on the Commodore 16/Plus4 hardware as we know it today (Jack left and they went a bit mad with the TED line of machines btw). Comparing Galaxian and Pole Position by Atarisoft on the VIC and VCS it is clear to see which versions look superior, something that buyers noticed world wide as well as the lack of additional functions a video games console could provide to compete with a home computer. Certainly didn't have no cut down unusable keyboard like the pathetic Atari 400...a complete waste of time and the designer of that utter piece of crap really did need mental help...I think the VCS Video Touchpads were nicer to use than the A400 keyboard :lol:

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...the very same thing that drove everyone else to use it as a doorstop and move on to another computer. So I'd call him one of the exceptions. ;)

 

:roll:

 

Hours on this site without a Commodore slam: 3 0

 

:(

 

desiv

 

People who slag off the VIC show their ignorance as to it's purpose (and why it was unceremoniously killed off after the C64 was completed). It is a well known fact the VIC-20 was a cheap home computer designed merely as a diversionary tactic to put competitors off what Commodore really wanted to build to attack the home computer market (and at a cost that no other company could reverse engineer economically before they could pose a threat to its sales). It served it's purpose on many levels, especially keeping reverse engineering departments ready before the shock of the C64. These are all documented facts from the book Home Computer Wars. I think at 1/3 the price of a 16k A800 it didn't do too badly for a sacrificial lamb of a model. And people selling their VICs got C64s so hardly either bad as far as customers were concerned (otherwise they would have taken a 2nd mortgage and got an Atari 800 instead) or bad business plan by Jack ;)

 

It was a full blown computer for just $100 more than the popular VCS of 79 hence tapping into the 'responsible parent' sector of the market who didn't want their kids just playing computer games. It was so successful in fact that Jack was ready with plans to re-introduce something to replace it's bottom end of the market position sometime in 1983/4 with a $60 16k machine based on the Commodore 16/Plus4 hardware as we know it today (Jack left and they went a bit mad with the TED line of machines btw). Comparing Galaxian and Pole Position by Atarisoft on the VIC and VCS it is clear to see which versions look superior, something that buyers noticed world wide as well as the lack of additional functions a video games console could provide to compete with a home computer. Certainly didn't have no cut down unusable keyboard like the pathetic Atari 400...a complete waste of time and the designer of that utter piece of crap really did need mental help...I think the VCS Video Touchpads were nicer to use than the A400 keyboard :lol:

You must be kidding, for having sold so many you very seldom if ever saw them here in the U.S. and there was zero,zip, nada for software to buy. NOBODY carried it. It was hardly some grandious plan. Just some cheap crap that didn't do much and had no real software and what little there was you could not find. An A400 was such a better deal with REAL arcade ports and software everywhere. Heck any Sears across the nation had it. As mentioned before, people buy cheap, though it would appear with VIC it never sold that well in the US and what did was mostly doorstops for the curious. If it had been something to make money from,we would have sold it. It wasn't. I don't even recall people asking.

Also 2600 was wildly popular, the Atari 2600 sold almost 8 million units in 1982 (at its peak) and has sold over 30 million units worldwide as of 2004.

Edited by atarian63
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I liked the Mega ST's and the MegaFiles... I wish Atari had stayed along those lines, then of course there is the big St - the EST:

 

http://www.atarimuseum.com/computers/16bits/est.html

 

Now THAT is a cool looking ST system that says 'RESPECT'

 

;-)

 

 

 

Curt

 

I actually think the Amiga 1000, with its recessed keyboard was pretty cool.

 

I also think the Atari Mega ST's were good looking, and the step up to the

Mega STe and TT030 cases was righteous - they are my favorites. Ira Valenski

got it just right. :)

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You must be kidding, for having sold so many you very seldom if ever saw them here in the U.S.

 

I suppose you, selling mostly Atari's, almost never saw them. But they sold a lot, so they were there.

 

Perhaps, not looking for them, YOU didn't see them. Some of us did. Quite often...

 

 

..and there was zero,zip, nada for software to buy. NOBODY carried it.

 

Not true, many department and toy stores carried Vic software. Just not many computer stores, where I assume you spent more time.

 

As mentioned before, people buy cheap, though it would appear with VIC it never sold that well in the US and what did was mostly doorstops for the curious.

 

Obviously not true, based on the number of Vic 20's sold. You really didn't get out of your store much, did you? ;-)

 

When you pick something that sold as many units as the Vic 20 did and say it didn't sell well, you realize what that does for the other stuff you say, right?

 

You didn't see a lot of Vic 20's. Fine. Doesn't mean they weren't out there.

You didn't sell a lot of Vic 20's. Fine. Doesn't mean they didn't sell.

 

You know, it is possible that your store and life experiences don't mirror the rest of the USA exactly. It's just possible.

 

But the Atari's are great machines, and I won't say anything against them.

 

The "doorstop" line was kind of funny the first time. It's mostly annoying and childish now. IMHO.

 

This isn't a "SLAM the Vic-20" thread. It's a thread about an Amiga-Atari design btw. A design I'm interested to hear about, as a fan of both technologies.

 

I'd appreciate your perspective as it relates to the topic. These CBM bashing posts tho, make me question whether there's anything to your technical posts, which is a shame because there might be some good information there.

 

desiv

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I liked the Mega ST's and the MegaFiles... I wish Atari had stayed along those lines, then of course there is the big St - the EST:

 

http://www.atarimuseum.com/computers/16bits/est.html

 

Now THAT is a cool looking ST system that says 'RESPECT'

 

;-)

 

Curt

 

 

Hi Curt! Thanks for continuing to make your place one of *the* Atari places to visit.

 

Wow, that is a pretty impressive looking setup. Numbers for it looked good too. Guess

it was just another great concept that never got out the door, huh. :(

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...the very same thing that drove everyone else to use it as a doorstop and move on to another computer. So I'd call him one of the exceptions. ;)

 

:roll:

 

Hours on this site without a Commodore slam: 3 0

 

:(

 

desiv

Can't you just ignore it? Isn't it sort of expected? What's the name of this site? I would suggest both expecting and ignoring it.

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You must be kidding, for having sold so many you very seldom if ever saw them here in the U.S.

 

I suppose you, selling mostly Atari's, almost never saw them. But they sold a lot, so they were there.

 

Perhaps, not looking for them, YOU didn't see them. Some of us did. Quite often...

 

 

..and there was zero,zip, nada for software to buy. NOBODY carried it.

 

Not true, many department and toy stores carried Vic software. Just not many computer stores, where I assume you spent more time.

 

As mentioned before, people buy cheap, though it would appear with VIC it never sold that well in the US and what did was mostly doorstops for the curious.

 

Obviously not true, based on the number of Vic 20's sold. You really didn't get out of your store much, did you? ;-)

 

When you pick something that sold as many units as the Vic 20 did and say it didn't sell well, you realize what that does for the other stuff you say, right?

 

You didn't see a lot of Vic 20's. Fine. Doesn't mean they weren't out there.

You didn't sell a lot of Vic 20's. Fine. Doesn't mean they didn't sell.

 

You know, it is possible that your store and life experiences don't mirror the rest of the USA exactly. It's just possible.

 

But the Atari's are great machines, and I won't say anything against them.

 

The "doorstop" line was kind of funny the first time. It's mostly annoying and childish now. IMHO.

 

This isn't a "SLAM the Vic-20" thread. It's a thread about an Amiga-Atari design btw. A design I'm interested to hear about, as a fan of both technologies.

 

I'd appreciate your perspective as it relates to the topic. These CBM bashing posts tho, make me question whether there's anything to your technical posts, which is a shame because there might be some good information there.

 

desiv

sorry you don't enjoy hearing perspective from those of us actually there in the day.It does get tiresome hearing revisionist bs and is necessary to point that out.Funny that you would assume that I did not get out or do market research in order to come up with sales tactics. Of course some mass marketers caried these. They also did not carry much software for it and zero tech support Probably explains why most of them became (uh oh here it comes) doorstops.

Never having been any kind of a fan of C technology, it's always been a bit of a mystery to me why people bought inferior stuff,other than being cheap which is often how people are.

Yes,it is an amiga/Atari thread and I cant wait to see the results from Wgungfu and Curt. The revisonism willthen stop

or should,though I doubt it.

So that said, let's get back to the topic, it's really fun seeing how amiga should have been.

Edited by atarian63
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sorry you don't enjoy hearing perspective from those of us actually there in the day.

 

You must have misread the part where I said:

I'd appreciate your perspective as it relates to the topic. These CBM bashing posts tho, make me question whether there's anything to your technical posts, which is a shame because there might be some good information there.

 

And I was there "back in the day". You shouldn't make assumptions like that.... In fact, if you read what I'd said, it was obvious I was there, whether or not we agree on platforms...

 

It does get tiresome hearing revisionist bs ..

 

AGREED!!!

 

Funny that you would assume that I did not get out or do market research in order to come up with sales tactics. Of course some mass marketers caried these. They also did not carry much software for it and zero tech support Probably explains why most of them became (uh oh here it comes) doorstops.

 

Never said that, but I did joke (the smiley) about you not getting out much. However, I never commented on whether or not you did market research.... Good to see you are admitting that they were carried and sold in the US. Perhaps we differ on the definition of "much software". I know, in stores like Toys-R-Us (yes, a toy store..) that there were, in my opinion, lots of programs/carts for the Vic-20 at the time.

 

Never having been any kind of a fan of C technology, it's always been a bit of a mystery to me why people bought inferior stuff,other than being cheap which is often how people are.

Yes,it is an amiga/Atari thread and I cant wait to see the results from Wgungfu and Curt. The revisonism willthen stop

or should,though I doubt it.

So that said, let's get back to the topic, it's really fun seeing how amiga should have been.

 

I'm totally OK with you thinking the Vic (and all Commodore stuff) is inferior. That's your (and others) opinion.

Fact is, I would have preferred the Atari 400 to the Vic at the time. But we got the Vic. I don't deny that "cheap" had something to do with it. But they did sell, lots. No revisionism there..

 

I'm interested in seeing what might have been for the Amiga as well...

 

Take it easy.

 

desiv

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Chicklet keys with a keyboard laid on top basicly, though I honestly don't dislike the "mushy" feel, my little brother prefers to use an older mechanical switch keyboard with his PC. (with that distinctive clicky feel and "sproingy" sound) I think that uses the "buckling spring" mechanism. (of course with that you get even more tictile and aural response than you otherwise would with a mechanical switch keyboard, although buckling spring mechanisms do tend to use therubber dome switches below the key, so the fundemental mechanism is still similar)

 

I'm just bitter about the latter-era Atari keyboards since the 800 and 1200XL keyboards were so superior. They had the metal spring feel of the PC keyboard but without the clacking (except for the spacebar on the 1200XL which was noisy as hell). People who wax nostalgic about the original IBM keyboards must never have used an 800 or 1200XL.

 

Hmm, only tried atari 8-bits a couple times (both 800s), so can't say much for the keyboard, I have played around a bit more on a TRS-80, are those keyboards anything alike?

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sorry you don't enjoy hearing perspective from those of us actually there in the day.

 

You must have misread the part where I said:

I'd appreciate your perspective as it relates to the topic. These CBM bashing posts tho, make me question whether there's anything to your technical posts, which is a shame because there might be some good information there.

 

And I was there "back in the day". You shouldn't make assumptions like that.... In fact, if you read what I'd said, it was obvious I was there, whether or not we agree on platforms...

 

It does get tiresome hearing revisionist bs ..

 

AGREED!!!

 

Funny that you would assume that I did not get out or do market research in order to come up with sales tactics. Of course some mass marketers caried these. They also did not carry much software for it and zero tech support Probably explains why most of them became (uh oh here it comes) doorstops.

 

Never said that, but I did joke (the smiley) about you not getting out much. However, I never commented on whether or not you did market research.... Good to see you are admitting that they were carried and sold in the US. Perhaps we differ on the definition of "much software". I know, in stores like Toys-R-Us (yes, a toy store..) that there were, in my opinion, lots of programs/carts for the Vic-20 at the time.

 

Never having been any kind of a fan of C technology, it's always been a bit of a mystery to me why people bought inferior stuff,other than being cheap which is often how people are.

Yes,it is an amiga/Atari thread and I cant wait to see the results from Wgungfu and Curt. The revisonism willthen stop

or should,though I doubt it.

So that said, let's get back to the topic, it's really fun seeing how amiga should have been.

 

I'm totally OK with you thinking the Vic (and all Commodore stuff) is inferior. That's your (and others) opinion.

Fact is, I would have preferred the Atari 400 to the Vic at the time. But we got the Vic. I don't deny that "cheap" had something to do with it. But they did sell, lots. No revisionism there..

 

I'm interested in seeing what might have been for the Amiga as well...

 

Take it easy.

 

desiv

Same here, not try to be pain at all. This should really be some cool stuff! Sad as well for what could have been.. But at least we will get to see and not have to guess anymore.

 

Good chatting with you! :D Hopefully we will find a bunch of stuff we do agree on!

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  • 2 weeks later...

post-11930-125698275997_thumb.jpgpost-11930-125698275997_thumb.jpg not to be confused with the MigST

 

Wow.. you MASSIVELY DOWNGRADED the internal hardware in that thing..

 

Can I have the AMIGA motherboard you took out?

 

not mine, just someone on a UK forum that I know. Think he is doing it to p++s people off. He plans to put an Acorn Atom in another ST case I believe

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i like the vic-20 tangent this thread took, was interesting, i know in the area i grew up, vic-20's were easy to get, along with software, but there was two computers stores that had them and sold them, but was VERY hard to buy one, when you would ask about them they would steer you off to the C64 or 2600, depending if you were interested in its computing or games... i owned one for a short while (after i had my first atari) someone gave it to me didnt do much with it, didnt see the point, but i eventually did learn a bit about them when a friend of a fellow atari user group member asked me to do some upgrades on his... i set it up with 32k ram and several 6522's, he was a very talented programmer but knew little about hardware, and wanted to use the vic-20 to control his train layout...

 

as for the topic, i can rem when this went down, and a friend telling me atari was saved, jack bought atari, and thinking 'oh great, the atari is gonna turn into the C64' and in a sense it did... simple inexpensive machines that are [semi]compatible with previous machine with no real innovation... but unfortunatly that has been computers for the last ~25 years with small incremental innovations...

 

Curt, greetings, long time no talk... you remember i contacted you about ~10-12 years ago about a skin mag ( Oui ) from ~1973 with a large article on atari and an interview with Nolan Bushnell? unfortunatly i was storing my stuff in a friend of my mothers shed and his kids got into my stuff and seemed more interested in thet pics between the 'good' stuff and destroyed it... :'(

 

sloopy.

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  • 3 months later...

I was amazed that the system memory was 1mb, but yes - video ram at 1mb!!! I mean in the late 80's I remember installing VGA upgrade cards that had 256K on them and those were impressive video cards on IBM PC's, so to see a system from April of 1984 with that much memory it just mindblowing...

 

The Amiga 2000 ended up with 1MB of VRAM. But of course that was in 1987 at a high price point for professional - or prosumer - buyers.

 

 

had a highly formidable arsenal of extremely capable 16bit systems already developed from Corporate Research and Advanced Engineering, however when the Tramiels walked into Atari with Shiraz, they already had a design that was well along and they're blinders were in full force and they focused on their own system and not on systems literally ready to go with extremely capable features, just look at AMY - the reports of the demo's of the sound processor show it to be a chip that was years ahead of its time, well ahead of anything else.

 

Of course the Tramiels walked in discounting anyone from Atari Inc. and what they said. "Business is war" in their minds, and they conquered Atari. I guess it never dawned upon them that it took their chief engineer 5 years to produce a system [the C64] that was arguably [somewhat] better than what Jay Miner designed back in 1978/79.

 

Curt, if you can get the AMY chip working at this point, you will indeed be a demigod amongst Atari fans and retro-scene fans.

 

Of course, you had me impressed with your collection of McDonald's Atari scratchers. :)

 

 

But wouldn't 1MB of video ram have been REALLY expensive? What's the point of the designing the ultimate computer if no one can afford it? That's what almost happened to the Amiga!

Tempest

 

 

But that was Commodore's own stupidity you are referring to. Since Commodore had MOS - which manufactured all of their custom chips - there was no reason why the Amiga1000 didn't debut with 512k at the same price - or less - than an Atari 520ST bundled with an external SF354 - or SF314 - disk drive considering Commodore was vertically integrated and Atari Corp. was not.

 

It took them 2 years to pull their cranium out of their posterior and then they started beating up on the ST with the Amiga 500 which then took Atari Corp. a good 2 years to match with the STE which still did not have the same graphics capabilities of the Amiga. Shame.

 

 

Atari was offered the apple and declined as they has thier own in dev.

Interestingly, they originally wanted an open architecture card system ala the Apple II, but Ray wouldn't allow it. In fact he had a grand vision for a consumer driven "appliance computer" market complete with color coordinated computers ala what Jobs did with the iMac almost 20 years later.

 

 

The FCC did not allow it. They were the ones - not Ray - that forced Atari not to include internal expansion slots on a "home computer" because of RF. That's what compelled Atari to create the grand-daddy of USB, the SIO port. The Apple // line was for "business" and thus they only needed Class B [and not Class C] licenses. Of course, Ray probably did put his feet down on releasing anything more powerful - and more expensive - than the 800 at the time which could've been a business class system which could've skirted around Jimmy Carter's FCC.

 

 

Interestingly, they originally wanted an open architecture card system ala the Apple II, but Ray wouldn't allow it. In fact he had a grand vision for a consumer driven "appliance computer" market complete with color coordinated computers ala what Jobs did with the iMac almost 20 years later.

 

Ray was ridiculed for this in Stella at 20. The implication was that Ray was more interested in style than substance.

 

So Ray is the real Slim Shady and Steve Jobs is the imitation, right down to the stock scandals.

 

No, wait. Ray wore those "Visitor" sunglasses. He's a lizard!

 

 

 

Yeah but the Adam bombed in terms of sales, and the CoCo wasn't especially successful, but how did the VIC manage to be successful in spte of such critisism? (just because it was so cheap and could play games?)

 

 

William Shatner is more manly than Bill Cosby or Alan Alda.

 

 

That makes me cringe on many levels!!!

 

I was VERY VERY disappointed that the Trameils dropped the sexy XL styling and went with Ira Valensky's dull grey designs with the ergonomical nightmarish 45 degree angled buttons. Its weird, its like an episode of "Freaky Friday" -- Commodore had such butt ugly machines and Atari had the sexy XL's --- then Commodore winds up with the Amiga (aka 16bit Atari's) and Atari winds up with Commodore management - the Amiga 1000, Commodore 64C and C128 were really slick, cool looking machines and the Atari XE and ST are ugly grey monstrousities....

1984 was like the reversal of the two arch nemesis company employee's, culture and styling....

 

Did Ira design the Commodore Plus4 case? That reminds me a lot of the later ST case design.

 

I hated Commodore so much that that was one of the reasons why I had my parents buy a 1040ST for me. Well, that and the fact that it appeared that the Amiga was going to die. This was prior to the release of the A500, of course.

 

In hindsight, I wish the Tramiels would've surfed the great ship Commodore down the drain and left Atari alone. Of course, it wasn't their fault they bought Atari, it was the fault of cursed Rupert Murdoch for launching that hostile takeover attempt on Warner which forced them to sell Atari to take pressure off their stock. Damn you, Rupert Murdoch.

 

 

Personally, I find the unholy mix and swapping of Atari/Commodore people and technology incredibly interesting.

Now I understand what people find interesting in soap operas... :-)

desiv

 

I was thinking more like a swingers party filled with ugly people. Must-get-that-documentary-about-Plato's-Retreat-out-of-my-mind.

 

 

 

Linus Torvald's first machine was a Vic-20. He seems fairly computer literate to me. :)

 

 

For all his brilliance, he's yet to demand GEM be ported to Linux in order to get rid of gawd awful KDE and Gnome.

 

 

 

People who slag off the VIC show their ignorance as to it's purpose (and why it was unceremoniously killed off after the C64 was completed). It is a well known fact the VIC-20 was a cheap home computer designed merely as a diversionary tactic to put competitors off what Commodore really wanted to build to attack the home computer market (and at a cost that no other company could reverse engineer economically before they could pose a threat to its sales). It served it's purpose on many levels, especially keeping reverse engineering departments ready before the shock of the C64. These are all documented facts from the book Home Computer Wars. I think at 1/3 the price of a 16k A800 it didn't do too badly for a sacrificial lamb of a model. And people selling their VICs got C64s so hardly either bad as far as customers were concerned (otherwise they would have taken a 2nd mortgage and got an Atari 800 instead) or bad business plan by Jack ;)

 

It was a full blown computer for just $100 more than the popular VCS of 79 hence tapping into the 'responsible parent' sector of the market who didn't want their kids just playing computer games. It was so successful in fact that Jack was ready with plans to re-introduce something to replace it's bottom end of the market position sometime in 1983/4 with a $60 16k machine based on the Commodore 16/Plus4 hardware as we know it today (Jack left and they went a bit mad with the TED line of machines btw). Comparing Galaxian and Pole Position by Atarisoft on the VIC and VCS it is clear to see which versions look superior, something that buyers noticed world wide as well as the lack of additional functions a video games console could provide to compete with a home computer. Certainly didn't have no cut down unusable keyboard like the pathetic Atari 400...a complete waste of time and the designer of that utter piece of crap really did need mental help...I think the VCS Video Touchpads were nicer to use than the A400 keyboard :lol:

 

 

I thought the VIC's purpose was to burn down peoples houses with that cheap aluminum sprayed cardboard it used as RF shielding. At least Atari never stooped to something so low as that. Sure, the membrane keyboard in the Atari 400 was only good in training people how to use the terminals at McDonald's but at least it wasn't a threat to real estate.

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It may be that the VIC-20 & CoCo sold lots of units, but the thing is... VIC-20s were ultralame. The people that had VIC-20s & CoCos (& TI 99/4As & Coleco ADAMs, for that matter) were viciously made fun of. So, while the Vic-20 would have made a GREAT doorstop, or paperweight, it would have been an unlikely use, because they were an embarrassment to their owners.

 

Do you know if oppinions were any different in Europe in this regard?

 

Well, i can't speak for all of Europe but from my recollection the VIC and CoCo (disguised as the Welsh-built Dragon 32 and 64) made an impression on the UK market and only the VIC had any longevity or software support; a lot of our software houses at the time were founded on VIC 20 games, early startups like Llamasoft, Interceptor, Rabbit, Anirog and even Software Projects and Ultimate who were both best known for their Spectrum games knocked out Perils of Willy and Jetpac respectively for it. There was also quite a bit of VIC support from budget bunnies Mastertronic straight out of the gate, mostly rebadged Mr. Chip games to start with but they soon found their feet.

 

Dragon users were the butt of quite a few jokes... although now i think about it, despite high street retailers such as Boots (a national chain of chemists who bundled the computers and games into their photographic departments - i learnt to program on the machines at the local branch!) carried at least the Dragon 32 i've never met anybody who owned one!

 

Ah, the good old VIC 20, loved that machine at the time. Spent most of my free time in the VIC Centre behind the BBC set building place off Western Avenue in Acton West London. The one person that was there all the time was Jeff Minter, always showing off his new code, the first thing I remember seeing from him was a submarine type game, sort of Wavy Navy but as a sub...

 

There was also a software publisher very near there that I purchased a crazy balloon clone from written in basic...Was quite good actually..

 

As for the Dragon, even my lot, Maplin stayed clear of that, mind you they had been severely burnt in the computer market by that time through incredibly poor purchasing (not my doing), the nearest we got to a Dragon 32 was poor quality books about it and even then Maplin in their stupidity purchased thousands of really awful computer books that we could not give away.

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Atari was offered the apple and declined as they has thier own in dev.

Interestingly, they originally wanted an open architecture card system ala the Apple II, but Ray wouldn't allow it. In fact he had a grand vision for a consumer driven "appliance computer" market complete with color coordinated computers ala what Jobs did with the iMac almost 20 years later.

 

 

The FCC did not allow it. They were the ones - not Ray - that forced Atari not to include internal expansion slots on a "home computer" because of RF. That's what compelled Atari to create the grand-daddy of USB, the SIO port. The Apple // line was for "business" and thus they only needed Class B [and not Class C] licenses. Of course, Ray probably did put his feet down on releasing anything more powerful - and more expensive - than the 800 at the time which could've been a business class system which could've skirted around Jimmy Carter's FCC.

 

No, as stated it was Ray. That came direct from my talks with Joe Decuir. Ray and some of the other management were the ones who pushed the whole thing in to a closed architecture system, and drove for it to be a "consumer appliance" device complete with "smart peripherals". Ray even had this whole plan to make them in multiple colors and such to appeal to women as stated below.

 

The FCC is what caused them to have the heavy metal shielding.

 

 

 

Interestingly, they originally wanted an open architecture card system ala the Apple II, but Ray wouldn't allow it. In fact he had a grand vision for a consumer driven "appliance computer" market complete with color coordinated computers ala what Jobs did with the iMac almost 20 years later.

 

Ray was ridiculed for this in Stella at 20. The implication was that Ray was more interested in style than substance.

 

So Ray is the real Slim Shady and Steve Jobs is the imitation, right down to the stock scandals.

 

No, wait. Ray wore those "Visitor" sunglasses. He's a lizard!

 

I wouldn't say that, I'm sure Jobs had no idea about any of this. Jobs actually is more of a Nolan 2.0, with some of the past shticks of his. Regarding Ray and how mos said he was ridiculed - at the time he pushed for all this, it's what caused a number of people to resign at the time though.

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