Curt Vendel Posted October 19, 2009 Author Share Posted October 19, 2009 It is difficult to say... the timeline still has the breakdown of talks between Amiga to Atari just days prior to the June 30th deadline. The Tramiels did look at using the AMY sound processor, however they did not use the Silver & Gold graphics chipset. Why? Its unknown without getting input from specific individuals with whom we are awaiting responses from. So had the Amiga chipset in fact been a part of the available technologies afforded to the Tramiels, the agreement only allowed the chipset for use in a video game console until June of 1985, at that time, then a keyboard could be added to the system, the system could have no more then 128K and no 2nd floppy drive. This of course would highly limit the system - 3rd parties of course could've done whatever they wanted... It wouldn't be until 1986 when Atari under the license could then produce a standalone computer. So since the Tramiels were not focusing on video games until financial resources permitted, they would've still forged ahead with their ST computers most likely. Curt Pardon my ignorance, but I have to ask you experts some things that have always plagued me. If Atari had ended up with the Amiga chipset, would that of meant some kind of console from Atari using the original Amiga chipset? Would Atari have still built a next generation computer around the Amiga chipset or would they have still released the ST computer line? How close to the OCS Amiga would Atari's design have been another words would it have been capable of HAM and HAM-E mode? Some thing else I've always wondered. What would Commodore have released? If Atari did release an Amiga style computer would Commodore have likely rushed to market with a ST like machine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorisabouttodie Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Thanks for your reply. I always thought as a teenager in the 80's that somehow if Atari had the Amiga from the get go, they would of been able to do more with it than Commodore, but it sound's to me like Atari would of likely put it on hold and still released the ST series thus depriving the world (and me) of owning an Amiga computer. This is all very interesting and a part of Atari, Amiga and Commodore's history that has always been kind of hazey. One thing is for sure, the Amiga is a direct decedent of the Atari 800 and 2600 lineage and it would of been interesting in an "alternate timeline" to see what Atari would of done with the technology. Somehow I think like so many things during that time they would of squandered it and the Amiga would be a smaller foot note in computer history than it ended up being. That said, an Amiga based console would of been light years ahead of NES, but by the time Atari released it the Atari Amiga would of probably been competing against the Genesis/SNES and without much software support. One quick question, the Amy sound processor was the chip intended to be used in the special xe or am I remembering it wrong? Was it more advanced than Amiga's Paula? Was PAula even part of the original Amiga design? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kr0tki Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 would of I'm usually not a grammar Nazi, but, come on, you've repeated it SEVEN TIMES! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Vendel Posted October 19, 2009 Author Share Posted October 19, 2009 AMY had originally been intended by the Tramiels for use in the "RBP" (Rock Bottom Price - aka Atari ST) but it still needed some finalized work and with such an aggressive schedule to complete the ST the AMY was moved to the 65XEM instead while the ST used an off the shelf audio chip. Paula is the descendant of the original Lorriane audio processor - Portia. Curt Thanks for your reply. I always thought as a teenager in the 80's that somehow if Atari had the Amiga from the get go, they would of been able to do more with it than Commodore, but it sound's to me like Atari would of likely put it on hold and still released the ST series thus depriving the world (and me) of owning an Amiga computer. This is all very interesting and a part of Atari, Amiga and Commodore's history that has always been kind of hazey. One thing is for sure, the Amiga is a direct decedent of the Atari 800 and 2600 lineage and it would of been interesting in an "alternate timeline" to see what Atari would of done with the technology. Somehow I think like so many things during that time they would of squandered it and the Amiga would be a smaller foot note in computer history than it ended up being. That said, an Amiga based console would of been light years ahead of NES, but by the time Atari released it the Atari Amiga would of probably been competing against the Genesis/SNES and without much software support. One quick question, the Amy sound processor was the chip intended to be used in the special xe or am I remembering it wrong? Was it more advanced than Amiga's Paula? Was PAula even part of the original Amiga design? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorisabouttodie Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 would of I'm usually not a grammar Nazi, but, come on, you've repeated it SEVEN TIMES! I can't believe you counted! I would of not done that LOL just kidding. Can you believe I majored in English? I type fast and don't always consider grammar or even punctuation at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Can you believe I majored in English? Me fail english? That's unpossible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Rogue Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Wikipedia tells me that the floppy version of MacWorks XL (Mac OS for the Lisa hardware) came out in April '84, just in time. There ya go. That's probably what they used then. Overall, I'm still fascinated that they used Apple Lisas. But back to the topic at hand... Just to let you and Laeumeur know, did a followup with the author of that doc and it looks like it was done on a borrowed Mac 128k. From the further digging we've done, it looks like the Lisas were from corporate - apparently corporate regularly bought a mishmash of computers for themselves. When Jack came in and did an inventory, he leveraged the Lisas for the DRI/TOS/GEM dev. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Can you believe I majored in English? Me fail english? That's unpossible! Their their, your not the only one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmel_andrews Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Interesting that Atari had all this development going on (less the amiga CS) on advanced versions of the A8 hardware....I guess even though none of the developments ever made it to market, it still contradicts the story that Warners/Atari apparently turned down Jay Miners idea(s) regarding the future development of the atari 8bit (which is why he left atari to eventually team up with David Morse at Amiga)...unless that particular story is more miss-information Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laemeur Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Just to let you and Laeumeur know, did a followup with the author of that doc and it looks like it was done on a borrowed Mac 128k. Rats. Initially, I was just going to be a smart-ass and write "maybe he borrowed a Mac". I didn't think I'd be right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Rogue Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Interesting that Atari had all this development going on (less the amiga CS) on advanced versions of the A8 hardware....I guess even though none of the developments ever made it to market, it still contradicts the story that Warners/Atari apparently turned down Jay Miners idea(s) regarding the future development of the atari 8bit (which is why he left atari to eventually team up with David Morse at Amiga)...unless that particular story is more miss-information How would it contradict the story? This stuff didn't start until '82-'83. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Vendel Posted October 20, 2009 Author Share Posted October 20, 2009 Marty and I have revealed enough for the time being - we are now going dark and you'll have to wait until next Friday when we post up the announcement and link to the new webpages with the whole history of Atari Adv Eng, Corporate Research and how it all lead up into the sale of Atari, the Amiga-Atari deal and what happened during the summer of 1984... So we'll see everything end of next week on this... Curt Interesting that Atari had all this development going on (less the amiga CS) on advanced versions of the A8 hardware....I guess even though none of the developments ever made it to market, it still contradicts the story that Warners/Atari apparently turned down Jay Miners idea(s) regarding the future development of the atari 8bit (which is why he left atari to eventually team up with David Morse at Amiga)...unless that particular story is more miss-information How would it contradict the story? This stuff didn't start until '82-'83. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shannon Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 How dare you leave us in suspension like this!!! The Amiga is my second favorite machine!! Right next to the atari 8-bit line of course!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Marty and I have revealed enough for the time being - we are now going dark and you'll have to wait until next Friday when we post up the announcement and link to the new webpages with the whole history of Atari Adv Eng, Corporate Research and how it all lead up into the sale of Atari, the Amiga-Atari deal and what happened during the summer of 1984... Awesome! Thanks guys, can't wait to read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Philsan Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Atari deserves a book like "On the edge: the spectacular rise and fall of Commodore". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Guitarman Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 For those who don't know what the Apple Lisa is, here is my restored Lisa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 For those who don't know what the Apple Lisa is, here is my restored Lisa. I am jealous beyond belief. I've always wanted a Lisa, but not at the prices they go for. Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
re-atari Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 I am jealous beyond belief. I've always wanted a Lisa, but not at the prices they go for. Same thing going on when Lisa's were for sale in the early 80's; because of the esoteric pricetag they hardly sold. I do remember reading an interview with music composer Herbie Hancock back in 1983, in which he explained how he used his Lisa for creating his music. IIRC he used it for composing the actual music, not just writing lyrics. Apple later on decided to clear their warehouse of the entire Lisa inventory, and buried it all in a landfill in Utah. One of the main reasons Lisa's are so much sought after these days is because only a small number has actually survived. re-atari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Vendel Posted October 20, 2009 Author Share Posted October 20, 2009 There used to be a company in Brooklyn or Queens New York called Sun... something (can't remember full name) and he had loads of Lisa's and used to sell Mac/XL upgrades, spare parts and do repairs. I bough the Mac/XL upgrade, and a couple of Parallel cards so I could hook up a 10MB profile to my Lisa and I remember I had to have a different type of AppleTalk dongle so it could be hookup to an Appletalk network at a small company I worked for. Used to do Quark Express page layout work and printed to an Apple Laserwriter II Curt I am jealous beyond belief. I've always wanted a Lisa, but not at the prices they go for. Same thing going on when Lisa's were for sale in the early 80's; because of the esoteric pricetag they hardly sold. I do remember reading an interview with music composer Herbie Hancock back in 1983, in which he explained how he used his Lisa for creating his music. IIRC he used it for composing the actual music, not just writing lyrics. Apple later on decided to clear their warehouse of the entire Lisa inventory, and buried it all in a landfill in Utah. One of the main reasons Lisa's are so much sought after these days is because only a small number has actually survived. re-atari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 There used to be a company in Brooklyn or Queens New York called Sun... something (can't remember full name) Sun Remarketing I think. I seem to recall that they buried the last of their Lisa stock over a decade ago. Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarian63 Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 For those who don't know what the Apple Lisa is, here is my restored Lisa. OMG, we had some of those come through recycling last year! We chucked them!..ahhhh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Rogue Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 For those who don't know what the Apple Lisa is, here is my restored Lisa. OMG, we had some of those come through recycling last year! We chucked them!..ahhhh WTF?!?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarian63 Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 (edited) For those who don't know what the Apple Lisa is, here is my restored Lisa. OMG, we had some of those come through recycling last year! We chucked them!..ahhhh WTF?!?!? Yep, had no idea they were worth anything. Apple stuff generally is not worth much so we recycle it. Wish I had known. I give away this stuff when I know someone wants it. Edited October 21, 2009 by atarian63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kool kitty89 Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 (edited) Wow, Curt, this is awesome. So the article is going up on atarimuseum? Atari was offered the apple and declined as they has thier own in dev. Commodore 64 did not arrive until 82.Not sure anyone paid any attention to VIC and never heard of CBM/PET here in the US back at that time. Atari was 78/89. Atari ended up competing with Apple,personally I thing the Atari was a heck of alot better machine. Wasn't the Vic20 the first computer to sell over 1 million units? Man, I had no idea they used Lisas either. That's very interesting as well. Makes sense that a 68K system would be useful for developing on another 68K system. I wonder if any Atari engineers / R&D people continued to use Macs or Lisas after the Atari ST came out. Hmm, judging by that diagram though, it looks like they were planning on using a NS16032 (later renamed 32016), not that that couldn't have changed of course. (as I recall a 320xx was considered for the Atari ST design too) AMY had originally been intended by the Tramiels for use in the "RBP" (Rock Bottom Price - aka Atari ST) but it still needed some finalized work and with such an aggressive schedule to complete the ST the AMY was moved to the 65XEM instead while the ST used an off the shelf audio chip. That sound chip was particularly economical with use for I/O functionality. Perhaps the AMY team shouldn't have been among those laid off with the initial cutbacks after Tramiel's purchase and formation of Atari Corp. (from what I understand, Jack's own engineers had a hell of a time working with it, so keeping the original team could have really been worth it) In any case, it seems like the ST design could have at least included a low-cost FM synthesis chip (with them already buying the YM2149s from Yamaha), particularly something as cut-down as the very low-budget YM2413. Edited October 31, 2009 by kool kitty89 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimo Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 (edited) not to be confused with the MigST Edited October 31, 2009 by mimo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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