Help with starting out...

[Fischer500]

I was thinking,and I'd figured that I'd like to start out with 8-Bit computers. I was thinking of the 800, so what would it cost to get the 800, hookups, some games, and if needed, a monitor?

[atariksi]

I was thinking,and I'd figured that I'd like to start out with 8-Bit computers. I was thinking of the 800, so what would it cost to get the 800, hookups, some games, and if needed, a monitor?

 

You can use a TV. But Atari 800 is more expensive than 800XL so if you're worried about price, go for the 800XL. Atari 800 probably going for $20..$500 on Ebay (has the tv wire built-in, but may need RF adapter). 800XL going for $5..$30 on Ebay. If you're looking for Bounty Bob Strikes Back on cartridge, it will be more expensive.

[Fischer500]

What's the difference between the 800 and the 800XL?

[+wood_jl]

I was thinking,and I'd figured that I'd like to start out with 8-Bit computers. I was thinking of the 800, so what would it cost to get the 800, hookups, some games, and if needed, a monitor?

 

Atariksi is right. I'd suggest the 800XL or a 65XE or 130XE. You can generally get them considerably cheaper. They weigh a lot less so shipping will be less too. They have minor advantages over the old 800. They take up a lot less room, too. I love the old 800 and I have been watching them sell online for a time now; I'll probably get one "for the collection" but I seriously doubt I'd ever use it as my "main" Atari.

 

Dare I say I think the XL/XE machines are generally more reliable?

 

All you need is the Atari computer and an SIO2PC device; there is no need to fool with big clunky drives anymore. All the games and software are available online as disc images anyway. With SIO2PC all you need to do is run the software on your PC and "point" it to whichever disc image(s) you want to use and turn on the Atari and you're in business. I still can't believe how easy it is. An 800XL and my old laptop (via SIO2PC) takes up so much less room than the pile of drives and hardware I used to have "back in the day" and is SO much more reliable.

 

Look for the USB version of SIO2PC at Atarimax.

 

http://www.atarimax.com/sio2pc/documentation/

I'd suggest the "USB interface with SIO jack" version.

 

"SIO2PC" is of course the little hardware device.

"APE" is "Atari Peripheral Emulator" - the software to run on the PC that drives SIO2PC.

"Prosystem" software that can also run on the PC which allows you to connect (instead of the Atari computer) an actual Atari disc drive to your PC so you can read vintage Atari discs into your PC and make disc images of them. I have never used this and doubt you would, starting out.

 

Note you'll also need an Atari "SIO" cable - it's the cable used to hook the disc drive to the computer. The SIO2PC device hooks up just like an original drive, in lieu of the drive. You may want to pick up a monitor cable so you can use the video-in jack on your TV instead of RF on channel 3. These are available on Ebay. Software is a mouse click away.

[Fischer500]

Ok,I only really knew of the 800, so if not the original 800, whats the best to start with? And whats the atarimax do?

[+Philsan]

Regarding computer, I prefer Atari 130XE because of its 128KB and s-video output, but Atari 800XL is also a good solution.

 

As storage device,

if you have and want a PC near to your Atari you can buy SIO2PC (I prefer USB version, AtariAge user classics, $60):

http://www.atarimax..../documentation/

(this is not only a storage device but also a virtual printer, modem...).

Otherwise you can buy independent self-powered devices like SIO2SD:

http://marcinprusisz.pl/ (AtariAge user Pigula, $50)

http://www.mmj.pl/~lotharek/atari/ (AtariAge user lotharek, €90 with case)

http://mega-hz.no-ip...SD%20rev.2.html (€80 with case)

or Sdrive:

http://nuxx.net/wiki/SDrive_NUXX (AtariAge user c0nsumer, $150 with case)

http://morethangames.../adv-ek0130.htm

 

If you want a cartridge solution, Atarimax Maxflash Flash Cartridges

http://www.atarimax..../documentation/ (AtariAge user classics).

[Fischer500]

Ummm... I don't intend to do anything TO fancy with it, games, MAYBE some programming. I don't think I'll need to hook it up to my PC. I might set up a multicart for games, if thats what the atarimax does. Sounds like it, from what I read on the site. But now I'm slightly confused, lol.

[beamer320i]

Welcome to the world of Atari!

 

The simplest and most inexpensive way IMO is to start off by getting an Atari 800XL, 65XE (both have 64K RAM) or an Atari 130 XE (128k RAM) There is a lot of cartridge based software (programming or games) for these machines available via ebay, etc. Cheapest method of data retrieval is cassette based with recorders such as the 410, 1010 and the later XC12 machines, a faster and more reliable method of data retrieval(loading and saving) is the disk drives such as the 810 and 1050 drives, these offer more a more accessable way of using your Atari.

 

Software, both serious and gaming is still plentiful for these machines in their original format. I have various set-ups and use them daily for playing games and light programming duties...However, this is only the tip of the iceberg and much more is available in add-ons, PC emulators, etc as this site shows, the forum is excellent with many people who can advise with whatever your Atari needs, enjoy!

[HiassofT]

Ummm... I don't intend to do anything TO fancy with it, games, MAYBE some programming. I don't think I'll need to hook it up to my PC. I might set up a multicart for games, if thats what the atarimax does. Sounds like it, from what I read on the site. But now I'm slightly confused, lol.

If you want to do some programming, a storage device with the possibility to save your programs would certainly be useful :-)

 

I'd recommend a SIO2SD or SDrive in this case (you don't need to have a PC near your Atari, plus you have to possibility to easily exchange data with your PC by just plugging the SD card into a PC cardreader).

 

If you can solder, you can also build the SDrive by yourself for approx. $15-$20 (excluding SD card and case). I did this a few months ago and I really like it (I also own a SIO2SD and have several SIO2PC cables).

 

Concerning games: Some of the newer games require 320k of RAM, so a 130XE doesn't really help here. It's better to buy a 800XL or a 65XE/800XE and maybe equip it with a 256k/512k/1024k RAM upgrade if you need it. Personally I prefer the XL series, the XEs have really an awful keyboard plus I don't like the design.

 

Again, if you can solder, I recently uploaded the instructions how to build a 512k RAM upgrade for approx. $10. Read more about it here: http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/151313-docs-to-512k-xlxe-sram-extension-released/

 

so long,

 

Hias

[+wood_jl]

Ok,I only really knew of the 800, so if not the original 800, whats the best to start with? And whats the atarimax do?

I'd say the 800XL is the best to start with. "Atarimax" is the name of the place that sells the add-ons.

 

Ummm... I don't intend to do anything TO fancy with it, games, MAYBE some programming. I don't think I'll need to hook it up to my PC. I might set up a multicart for games, if thats what the atarimax does. Sounds like it, from what I read on the site. But now I'm slightly confused, lol.

If you don't want to hook it up to your PC, then you're limited to either (1) playing individual cartridge games - much as a game console, or (2) buy an actual 5.25" disc drive, locate discs with the software you want on them. It's quite expensive to collect (ebay) tons of cartridge games, but it can be done. It would be extremely difficult to locate a pile of Atari-8 discs that have what software you want.

 

On the other hand, you can download disc images of practically anything/everything to your PC from the internet, and use the SIO2PC device to plug into the disc drive port on your 800XL and play pretty much everything for free - minus the cost of the SIO2PC device. The SIO2PC device is actually the cheapest solution. For the $60 it cost, you wouldn't be able to buy many actual game cartridges. You'd be lucky to get an actual disc drive in good condition delivered at that price, and you don't know how (un)reliable it would be at this age. The SIO2PC device was created to solve all of these problems, which is why it is so attractive. You can get and play pretty much everything. You can't do any programming without a drive of SOME kind, and once again the SIO2PC is the cheaper and more reliable solution. The flashcarts come blank, so you'd have to program them some way, so once again, the SIO2PC would make it easy. Either way, hooking the Atari to your PC is pretty much a necessity, and that's what the SIO2PC makes easy. If you're dead-set against doing it, I'd just buy a pile of cartridges and use the computer like a game console. You'd still miss out on lots of disc-based games and spend a hell of a lot more than SIO2PC cost in the process.

[+wood_jl]

It would be easy to get into an SIO2PC vs SIO2SD or SIO2USB debate here.

 

But I think - for the beginning user - SIO2PC (USB version) is obviously the way to begin.

 

Sure, there is the "disadvantage" of having to have it hooked up to your PC - but how common are PCs nowdays? Plus, there are advantages of having it hooked up to the PC that are hardly mentioned. The most obvious is not having to copy stuff to the SD card - as soon as you download a disc image, you can select it and play on the Atari. You can also have instant access to your entire Atari library with a mouse click instead of having to sort through hundreds (thousands?) of disc images to select which ones you want on the SD card. Using Windows, it's easy to navigate amongst all those images and mouse click on which one you want. With the SD-card devices, exactly how do you navigate the tons of disc images?

 

I must declare I do not have any of the SD solutions on the Atari, but I am STILL interested in them. I just think for the beginner, it's going to be easier to start with SIO2PC.

 

I have the "1541 Ultimate" for the Commodore 64, and it's an SD card device. I appreciate not being tethered to the PC, but I find it a hassle to have (1) download or locate disc image, remove SD card from C64, put it in computer, drag and drop, return card, etc. I prefer SIO2PC on the Atari because the PC tether eliminates all that.

 

Additionally, the 1541 Ultimate - being a sophisticated device in the form of a cartridge - allows you to press a button and go into a full-screen menu to select which disc image you want from the SD card. Do any of the Atari devices give you this ability? Must you wade through hundreds of disc images on a tiny LCD display, or exactly HOW do you navigate a directory that's chock full of many many disc images with these SD card devices on the Atari?

[HiassofT]

It would be easy to get into an SIO2PC vs SIO2SD or SIO2USB debate here.

Yes, but I don't think we should hijack this thread :-)

 

Just a short note: If you have a PC nearby, SIO2PC is easier to use (I'm doing this almost every day, my Atari is sitting next to my PC and I'm using a TV card in my PC to display the Atari screen on my PC monitor).

 

But if - for example - you just want to hook up your Atari to your TV in your living room and have no room for a PC, SIO2SD & SDrive are really nice alternatives.

 

With the SD-card devices, exactly how do you navigate the tons of disc images?

 

The easiest way is to boot the config software from the device and then select the disk images. The SDrive does this by default if you power it on (there's obviously no other way to select images) and you can configure SIO2SD to do this also (or just load the config software if you press a key during powerup).

 

Then it all depends on how you organized the images on the SD card. Directories with tons of files surely means you have to scroll/search/... a lot until you found the image you wanted. But if you make some separate folders (for example favourite games, current programming projects etc.) with only a few images in them it's really easy and fast. If you download one of the huge collections from the internet a first start would be to create separate folders with all images starting with A, B, ... - otherwise you're out of luck :-)

 

With the SIO2SD you can also browse through the directories using the LCD, but IMHO the default (16 characters, 2 lines) LCD is way too small (at least 20 or 24 characters are needed to display longer filenames), and using the config software on the Atari is much more comfortable. Of course the LCD is handy as a fallback if you need to mount a new image and can't reboot and/or load the config software (for example if your programming "disk" is full and you need another blank image to save your new program). Besides this small issue, SIO2SD and SDrive are very similar (and - as stated before - I like them both, and also SIO2PC).

 

so long,

 

Hias

[Fischer500]

So I'll need to get An 800XL, A SIO2PC (whatever that is, I'll find out later.), some games obviously, and some software FOR the SIO2PC? Thanks everyone for the help. AND... how much would everything cost? Say, gamewise... frogger, pac-man, and maybe a couple other good games? (I'm not to familiar with the library for 8bit stuff.)

[Fischer500]

ALSO - I know people on ebay say EVERYTHING is rare ("SUPER RARE! COMBAT FOR ATARI 2600!") but one auction said 800XL's are very rare. is that true at all?

[+bf2k+]

ALSO - I know people on ebay say EVERYTHING is rare ("SUPER RARE! COMBAT FOR ATARI 2600!") but one auction said 800XL's are very rare. is that true at all?

 

No.

[Fischer500]

ok, thanks, thats a little reassuring lol. again, in case the other post inst read, how much would the 800XL, games (pac-man, frogger, donkey kong) memory card things (?),sio2pc, and the programming cart cost? Thanks again to all of you!

[atariksi]

ok, thanks, thats a little reassuring lol. again, in case the other post inst read, how much would the 800XL, games (pac-man, frogger, donkey kong) memory card things (?),sio2pc, and the programming cart cost? Thanks again to all of you!

 

Well, here's one Atari 800 auction that just ended w/many cartridge games:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270476186967

 

That's a fully functional unit w/extra cables that you let you connect to monitor and TV. I'm sure you can get an 800XL w/cartridges for less. The XL have the programming language (BASIC) built-in along with an extra 16K RAM that hardly anyone uses. You can always state by saving programs to human memory (you probably have a few gigabytes left if you haven't been drinking).

[atariksi]

What's the difference between the 800 and the 800XL?

 

They are compatible with each other. XL series added a few enhancements but uses single PCB and looks like just a keyboard whereas Atari 800 looks like a computer. That helps in the XL in bringing the price down as some have told me "I only have the keyboard not the computer."

[+bf2k+]

What's the difference between the 800 and the 800XL?

 

They are compatible with each other. XL series added a few enhancements but uses single PCB and looks like just a keyboard whereas Atari 800 looks like a computer. That helps in the XL in bringing the price down as some have told me "I only have the keyboard not the computer."

 

Occasionally you might encounter programs written for the 800 that will need a translator to run on the XL. And there are some programs that will not run on an 800. I agree with those above in that I'd get an XL or XE for my 1st Atari 8bit computer.

[Fischer500]

Wow! I was looking at that auction earlier. I can't drink yet, so I should have some space left... So if a 800XL with hookups and carts would be less than 50 USD, how much is a SIO2PC, and do I really need one?

[atariksi]

Wow! I was looking at that auction earlier. I can't drink yet, so I should have some space left... So if a 800XL with hookups and carts would be less than 50 USD, how much is a SIO2PC, and do I really need one?

 

You can start programming without a secondary storage device. It's not required to start up the computer as is the case with modern PCs. So you could write a program like:

 

10 ? "TEXT-BASED BASEBALL; PRESS START TO CONTINUE"

20 IF PEEK(53279)<>6 THEN 20

30 A=PEEK(53770):B=PEEK(53770)

40 IF A>B THEN ? "HOME TEAM WON BY SCORE OF ";A;" TO ";B

50 IF A<B THEN ? "VISITOR TEAM WON BY SCORE OF ";B;" TO ";A

60 IF A=B THEN ? "TODAY'S GAME WAS RAINED OUT! YOU CAN GET REFUND FOR YOU TICKETS THOUGH!"

[UNIXcoffee928]

You guys are giving him waaaaaaaay too much info!

 

Just get:

 

- An Atari computer: (800, 800XL, 65XE, 130XE). The other systems are great, too, but avoid them until you know why you avoided them. Of the systems in that list, the 800 has the best feeling keyboard. If you really care about aesthetics, the 800XL matches the 1050 disk drive perfectly.

 

- An Atari Disk Drive: the famous Atari 1050

 

- (1) box of 5.25" DSDD disks

 

- The book entitled: "Your Atari Computer". Get it here.

 

That's all you need. After you learn to use it, THEN follow all of the great suggestions given in the above posts.

Edited November 4, 2009 by UNIXcoffee928

[Thorsten Günther]

As already suggested, I would aim for an 800XL due to the fact that several newer software requires 64KB of RAM (as opposed to the 48 KB of the Atari 800). The issue with software that does not run on the 800XL has been fixed already for most stuff available (just check the usual suspect sites like Fandal's Site and Homesoft and you will most likely find a patched version there).

 

A SIO2SD is cheaply available from Poland or via eBay (e.g. here - presumably also a Polish guy, they seem to be best and cheapest). You will not need any other mass storage device except for loading original software from disk or tape.

 

Ah, BTW: some (sadly also some of the most sphisticated) software from Europe will not run in North America due to the different screen refresh rates, this can not be fixed easily except by purchasing a PAL 800XL (provided your TV does accept composite PAL).

 

Thorsten

[mimo]

 

 

Ah, BTW: some (sadly also some of the most sphisticated) software from Europe will not run in North America due to the different screen refresh rates, this can not be fixed easily except by purchasing a PAL 800XL (provided your TV does accept composite PAL).

 

Thorsten

unless you swap the NTSC ANTIC chip for a PAL one (and have a monitor that can handle the odd output)

[+wood_jl]

You guys are giving him waaaaaaaay too much info!

 

Just get:

 

  - An Atari computer: (800, 800XL, 65XE, 130XE). The other systems are great, too, but avoid them until you know why you avoided them. Of the systems in that list, the 800 has the best feeling keyboard. If you really care about aesthetics, the 800XL matches the 1050 disk drive perfectly. 

 

  - An Atari Disk Drive: the famous Atari 1050

 

  - (1) box of 5.25" DSDD disks

 

  - The book entitled: "Your Atari Computer". Get it here.

 

That's all you need. After you learn to use it, THEN follow all of the great suggestions given in the above posts.

 

I agree that it's too much info. That was why I was suggesting the SIO2PC. It is too bad that there is no really GOOD documentation for the SIO2PC for newbies. If you grew up with Atari 800, it's a no-brainer but I imagine there's a small bit of a conceptual learning curve for a newbie.

 

However, what is he going to do with a 1050 and a box of blank discs? All the software is in the form of disc images on the web. How is he going to get it on 1050 disks? I am assuming he wants to play games. That's why I said the SIO2PC instead of the 1050. Plus, if he gets an unreliable 1050, he's likely to give up entirely with this stuff - a situation avoidable with the SIO2PC. I guess SIO2PC itself must just be too confusing to newbies. I guess they should just get a pile of cartridges and use the 800XL like a game console.