Which system?

[Videogamecollector123]

Hi, I'm thinking of getting another console after the christmas season. I already have Vectrex, Atari 2600, Atari 5200, Atari 7800, NES, SNES, Genesis, N64, Xbox, and PS2. The choices for me are going to be between the Intellivision, Colecovision, Commodore 64, and Atari 800. the main things I'm looking for right now is a system that is reliable, system and games reasonably priced, a best game quality. My problems with each are,

Intellivison: the controllers and I've heard most the games are two player.

Colecovision: controllers, but they can be switched and originals look better and I've heard the system is unreliable

Commodore 64: I'm not sure on reliability but I've heard most of the games come on floppys which I'm wary about

Atari 800: Not sure about much so any information is new to me

[Mirage]

Well, you really can't go wrong with any of those, they're all good systems. Personally, I can't tolerate the controllers on the first two you named, but there are alternatives for each.

 

Still, of those, I'd say C64. Don't worry about the floppies. Unless you for some reason want to collect original games, you'll be money (and fun) ahead and frustration short by just getting one of the PC-hosted file solutions for it. I wish I could tell you the names of all of them at the moment, but it's been awhile since I've used them, so some of the names are escaping me, but there's one for about $35 that's pretty decent, or you could get an X-1541 cable for about the same price. Either of these allows you to host the files right on your PC's hard drive. Compatibility is good, not perfect by any means. Or you could get a 1541 ultimate card which you put the disk images right onto. It's a lot more expensive, but compared to buying and messing with all those physical floppies and drives... it's not expensive at all.

 

(I wish I could remember the name of the first one, I even have one...)

 

http://sta.c64.org/xcables.html

 

http://www.1541ultimate.net/content/index.php

 

You could also get an Atari 8-bit (personal preference) and have similar solutions.

 

Anyway, do some research. The old disk drives issue is not the problem it once was. Either the C64 or the A8 offer so much more depth and utility than the two consoles, so if you can get only on your list... I'd go for one of the computers.

Edited November 24, 2009 by Mirage1972

[AtariLeaf]

I voted Atari 800. I prefer the 800XL personally. They're a pretty reliable machine, you can use stock atari joysticks, and the game selection and quality is outstanding. If you already have a 5200 this may not appeal to you since many of the games are the same but you don't have the 5200 controller issue with the 8-bit computers.

Commodore 64 may be a nice choice too. Great games and system

Colecovision is great if you can find a reliable system (good luck). Intellivision is nice but I can't get past those controllers.

[jeremysart]

Hi, I'm thinking of getting another console after the christmas season. I already have Vectrex, Atari 2600, Atari 5200, Atari 7800, NES, SNES, Genesis, N64, Xbox, and PS2. The choices for me are going to be between the Intellivision, Colecovision, Commodore 64, and Atari 800. the main things I'm looking for right now is a system that is reliable, system and games reasonably priced, a best game quality. My problems with each are,

Intellivison: the controllers and I've heard most the games are two player.

Colecovision: controllers, but they can be switched and originals look better and I've heard the system is unreliable

Commodore 64: I'm not sure on reliability but I've heard most of the games come on floppys which I'm wary about

Atari 800: Not sure about much so any information is new to me

 

They are all good systems, but the problem with the Colecovision is reliability. It is hard to find a good working one in the wild, and there is always a chance of it going haywire on you.

 

The C64 is all around goodness, but finding games for it in the wild has proven tough.

 

Intellivision's are easy to come by, and the games are almost as common as the 2600. It is a fun system to collect for, and it has a diverse, unique library of games, including tons of great imagic games.

The controllers on the Intv I & III are not insufferable, but I can agree that the Intv II has mildly uncomfortable controllers.

If you are lucky, you may find a joystick adapter by Intv corp. that fits snugly on the Intv I & III controller, which beat playing with the disk for any of the arcade ports.

Edited November 24, 2009 by jeremysart

[Blur2040]

I think Intellivision's games are really weak and just not worth it compared to the other ones.

 

Colecovisions....espcially ones purchased out of some random person's attic can be really really finnicky, and they break down (major electonic breakdowns) even more than 2600s. (I find that components fail in both of these quite a bit, is what I'm saying).

 

I would like to recommend Commodore 64. Lots of great games for it....but the floppy thing is an issue for me, too, so that's why I don't own one. I prefer original games on original media. If you're into picking up some sort of modern solution for it though (as mentioned above), it's a slam dunk. So many great games on the system.

 

I voted for Atari 800 (though I think if you want one that looks really cool, you should go for the XEGS). Atari 8-bit isn't the perfect platform. There's floppy drives to deal with...but there's plenty of games on cartridges too. So many, in fact, that you can have a ton of fun with Atari 8 bit without ever touching a floppy or tape drive or some other archaic, troublesome peripheral. Grab an XEGS and it's just like any other console.

[Seob]

Depends on how easy it is to get stuff for the c64. I live in Europe and c64 stuff is very easy to get. Atari 800 stuff is a bit harder, normally not in the wild.

The c64 also has a huge collection of games on cartridge, plus about this is that are the better titles for the system.

As said before you could also get a device that uses memory cards for storages like the SD2IEC, 1541 III and 1541 ultimate.

[tz101]

I picked up an Intellivision in a trade this past summer. It actually has aftermarket joysticks attached to the standard Intellivision disc directional pads and works quite nicely. Though the Intellivision I did indeed have permanently attached controllers, the model II and III consoles had detachable ones and there were third party controllers offered. Intellivision games can be reasonable on Ebay, just watch the prices. Even Gamegavel.com (formerly Chase the Chuckwagon) has some decent deals on Intellivision stuff. Relally, the best deals I have found on Intellivision carts have been at Goodwill and Salvation Army stores around my area. Games for $1 each are hard to beat. No, most of the Intellivision games are not two-player as you state.

 

As for Colecovision, the systems and carts are almost never favorably priced. I have wanted one for a while, but refuse to pay Ebay prices.

[+save2600]

Kind of a weird pole because the first 2 systems are not in the same league as a computer. They're also going to have an extremely stunted library comparatively and then there's the controller issue. I love both my Atari-8 and the C64. Both are outfitted with modern disk image input schemes and I gotta say, for ease of use - I really like the A8. Drag, drop your game files into the SIO2OSX software, turn on the computer and away you go. Some people really abhor the idea of hooking a computer to a computer though(I use a laptop, so it's not a huge deal), but if you kind of feel that way - I'd say the C64 option would be the way to go. Really, I prefer most C64 games anyway (better graphics/better sounds in most cases and much more software to choose from), but the SD card interface "feels" more like you're using a 1541 in that you have to load the directory, list it out, use the cursor keys to navigate to the filename, etc. If you get yourself a C64 system, be SURE to get yourself a JiffyDOS chip OR external FastLoad cartridge!! That is a prerequisite as far as I'm concerned as the built in serial port is waaaaaay too damn slow by itself. You've been forewarned lol

[Mirage]

Kind of a weird pole because the first 2 systems are not in the same league as a computer. They're also going to have an extremely stunted library comparatively and then there's the controller issue. I love both my Atari-8 and the C64. Both are outfitted with modern disk image input schemes and I gotta say, for ease of use - I really like the A8. Drag, drop your game files into the SIO2OSX software, turn on the computer and away you go. Some people really abhor the idea of hooking a computer to a computer though(I use a laptop, so it's not a huge deal), but if you kind of feel that way - I'd say the C64 option would be the way to go. Really, I prefer most C64 games anyway (better graphics/better sounds in most cases and much more software to choose from), but the SD card interface "feels" more like you're using a 1541 in that you have to load the directory, list it out, use the cursor keys to navigate to the filename, etc. If you get yourself a C64 system, be SURE to get yourself a JiffyDOS chip OR external FastLoad cartridge!! That is a prerequisite as far as I'm concerned as the built in serial port is waaaaaay too damn slow by itself. You've been forewarned lol

 

Well said, and good advice. There's a ton of workable fast load solutions out there, none of them expensive. If you get a 1541 ultimate, all you'd need is the JiffyDOS in the computer, as it's built-in to the ultimate device. I just read today that the 1541 Ultimate II will be available soon. I'm definitely getting one of those. Then I can get rid of a lot of 1541-associated stuff I have cluttering up the closets.

[AtariLeaf]

Kind of a weird pole because the first 2 systems are not in the same league as a computer. They're also going to have an extremely stunted library comparatively and then there's the controller issue. I love both my Atari-8 and the C64. Both are outfitted with modern disk image input schemes and I gotta say, for ease of use - I really like the A8. Drag, drop your game files into the SIO2OSX software, turn on the computer and away you go. Some people really abhor the idea of hooking a computer to a computer though(I use a laptop, so it's not a huge deal), but if you kind of feel that way - I'd say the C64 option would be the way to go. Really, I prefer most C64 games anyway (better graphics/better sounds in most cases and much more software to choose from), but the SD card interface "feels" more like you're using a 1541 in that you have to load the directory, list it out, use the cursor keys to navigate to the filename, etc. If you get yourself a C64 system, be SURE to get yourself a JiffyDOS chip OR external FastLoad cartridge!! That is a prerequisite as far as I'm concerned as the built in serial port is waaaaaay too damn slow by itself. You've been forewarned lol

 

Off topic but I wish there were an easier solution for the Tandy coco as well (my 80's computer of choice). There's a program called "cocotape" which uses the cassette cable to hook up to the sound card and load that way (slow and doesn't work with a lot of programs) or there is a program called drivewire which uses a special cable attached to the coco's bitbanger port but from what I've read it has a lot of problems too. I wish there was an easy solution like the sio2osx for the coco.

[+save2600]

 

Well said, and good advice. There's a ton of workable fast load solutions out there, none of them expensive. If you get a 1541 ultimate, all you'd need is the JiffyDOS in the computer, as it's built-in to the ultimate device. I just read today that the 1541 Ultimate II will be available soon. I'm definitely getting one of those. Then I can get rid of a lot of 1541-associated stuff I have cluttering up the closets.

 

Just so the OP doesn't get confused... Mirage is talking about the SD card solution called uIEC by Jim Brain - we're not talking about an "ultimate" 1541 disk drive with the JiffyDOS chip inside of it. IF you get a C64 AND a real 1541 drive - you need JiffyDOS chips in both. But yes, if you ditch the 1541 drive and only stick with the uIEC device, you only need to put JiffyDOS in the C64. BTW: not all C64 motherboards have socketed chips. This would make it a lot more difficult as you'd have to desolder the old chip and solder a socket in its place, so you might want to ask the person you'd be getting one from if they know what's up.

[Mirage]

 

Well said, and good advice. There's a ton of workable fast load solutions out there, none of them expensive. If you get a 1541 ultimate, all you'd need is the JiffyDOS in the computer, as it's built-in to the ultimate device. I just read today that the 1541 Ultimate II will be available soon. I'm definitely getting one of those. Then I can get rid of a lot of 1541-associated stuff I have cluttering up the closets.

 

Just so the OP doesn't get confused... Mirage is talking about the SD card solution called uIEC by Jim Brain - we're not talking about an "ultimate" 1541 disk drive with the JiffyDOS chip inside of it. IF you get a C64 AND a real 1541 drive - you need JiffyDOS chips in both. But yes, if you ditch the 1541 drive and only stick with the uIEC device, you only need to put JiffyDOS in the C64. BTW: not all C64 motherboards have socketed chips. This would make it a lot more difficult as you'd have to desolder the old chip and solder a socket in its place, so you might want to ask the person you'd be getting one from if they know what's up.

 

Yes, thanks for the clarification.... and link to the 1541Ultimate site is above as well.

 

As for the socketed chips, the one in question for the JiffyDOS is socketed much more often than not. There is less variance there than for many of the other ICs. This summer I had over 100 C64's opened up to service them, part out, etc, and most of those are socketed. The ones that usually aren't are the later really cheap (I mean even cheaper than usual) C64c models (the white, flat cased ones) when they went to the more compact motherboard version. But if you get a regular brown breadbox 64, the DOS chip is usually socketed.

Edited November 24, 2009 by Mirage1972

[+save2600]

But if you get a regular brown breadbox 64, the DOS chip is usually socketed.

 

Interesting... I haven't opened up 100 C64's in my life - but I did just receive a batch of about 6 breadboxes. Out of the 6, 4 of the mobo's did NOT have socketed chips! Just crummy luck you think? Or are some people swapping mobo's around like crazy? I haven't looked inside a C64c in a while, but are the two mobo's completely compatible? BTW: one nice thing about the C64c is the latest revision SID chip. Sounds a little cleaner than the breadbox ones... video is off though - don't like it as well as the originals. Text is more white and background is less blue :-( Not so with my C128...

[Mirage]

But if you get a regular brown breadbox 64, the DOS chip is usually socketed.

 

Interesting... I haven't opened up 100 C64's in my life - but I did just receive a batch of about 6 breadboxes. Out of the 6, 4 of the mobo's did NOT have socketed chips! Just crummy luck you think? Or are some people swapping mobo's around like crazy? I haven't looked inside a C64c in a while, but are the two mobo's completely compatible? BTW: one nice thing about the C64c is the latest revision SID chip. Sounds a little cleaner than the breadbox ones... video is off though - don't like it as well as the originals. Text is more white and background is less blue :-( Not so with my C128...

 

When you say that 4 of the mobo's did NOT have socketed chips, are you referring specifically to the DOS ROM or socketed in general? I'm only referring to the DOS ROM, and if that's what you mean, then I'd say crummy luck, or most of them were later breadbox C64's, giving you less likeliness of sockets on any given chip. They got cheaper and cheaper as they went from Rev A to Rev B to Rev C mobo's, then onto the C64c where the quality is pretty hideous as the run went on and changed to Hong Kong (I think that's where the last ones were, going from memory there though).

 

The 64c is pretty much 100% compatible with the older boards. Except for the well-known differences in the SIDs, everything should run on either. I prefer the C64c for general use, just due to the ergonomics, but I actually prefer the original SID (6581) specifically the R5 seems best to me.

Edited November 24, 2009 by Mirage1972

[BassGuitari]

Intellivision, Colecovision, Commodore 64, or Atari 800. Woof, tough call.

 

I'm going to rule out the Atari 800. Not that it isn't a great machine or that you shouldn't bother with it (certainly not true; I love it), but since you already have an Atari 5200, you kind of have an idea of what the 800 is like. So, unless you're getting floppies and non-5200 games, there's not much new there for you.

 

I might have to say Commodore 64, but it really depends on which day of the week you ask me. Intellivision is one of my favorites, too (although the controllers, like the original Intellivision, ARE NOT DETACHABLE on the System III. I don't know where people are getting that.). I like Colecovision the least of the four, but it's still a bitchin' system.

 

Intellivision Pros:

-Consoles and cartridges are relatively common

-Some great 3rd party titles

-Great to collect for; there's enough stuff to make it interesting, but not so much that it becomes tedious or pedantic

-Prices are generally very reasonable

Intellivision Cons:

-Controller and power cords are really short (exception: Intellivision II).

-Controllers themselves can be a nuisance to use.

-Donkey Kong. Just say "no."

 

Colecovision Pros:

-Great graphics

-Cool add-ons/controllers

-Many common-ish titles

-Also great to collect for

Colecovision Cons:

-Can get expensive

-Prone to failure

-Controllers; see Intellivision

 

Commodore 64 Pros:

-Dirt common

-More software than you could ever know what to do with

-Compatible with Atari controllers

Commodore 64 Cons:

-Power supplies prone to failure (the black ones, at least)

[+save2600]

 

When you say that 4 of the mobo's did NOT have socketed chips, are you referring specifically to the DOS ROM or socketed in general? I'm only referring to the DOS ROM, and if that's what you mean, then I'd say crummy luck, or most of them were later breadbox C64's, giving you less likeliness of sockets on any given chip. They got cheaper and cheaper as they went from Rev A to Rev B to Rev C mobo's, then onto the C64c where the quality is pretty hideous as the run went on and changed to Hong Kong (I think that's where the last ones were, going from memory there though).

 

The 64c is pretty much 100% compatible with the older boards. Except for the well-known differences in the SIDs, everything should run on either. I prefer the C64c for general use, just due to the ergonomics, but I actually prefer the original SID (6581) specifically the R5 seems best to me.

 

Yeah, the 6581 R5 sounds a little "smoother" and more musical to these ears, but not as "articulate" or clean. But yeah, talking about NONE of the chips being socketed except maybe the video chip. Not an expert on the differences between the mobo revisions, just seemed odd to me that I'd have such cruddy luck these days. lol Thanks for the clarification!

Edited November 24, 2009 by save2600

[Mirage]

That's odd, since I find the video chip (6567) to be socketed at least half the time (I'm guessing on "half", but a lot of them are not socketed). Maybe there's more variation than I thought, who knows. They sold how many millions of the things.

 

At any rate, if the OP happens to get one with a socketed DOS chip and wants one that is not socketed, I could probably find one. I'm in the long process right now of unpacking everything and sorting it out... but I know I have some 64 mobo's left.

Edited November 24, 2009 by Mirage1972

[vcsdream]

How could you not have a tick box for USAs most famous computer, the Apple ][, biggest library of softs, great expandibility and works like a trooper.

Edited November 24, 2009 by vcsdream

[Mirage]

How could you not have a tick box for USAs most famous computer, the Apple ][, biggest library of softs, great expandibility and works like a trooper.

 

Yeah, if you want a real quality retro hobbyist machine, get an Apple ][. I'm not a big fan of Apple ][ gaming, but they are very nice machines, far more quality hardware than the C64 obviously.

 

I always recommend just getting one of nearly everything, but some people are more practical And I'm running into space issues myself, so I can understad.

[jeremysart]

 

I voted for Atari 800 (though I think if you want one that looks really cool, you should go for the XEGS). Atari 8-bit isn't the perfect platform. There's floppy drives to deal with...but there's plenty of games on cartridges too. So many, in fact, that you can have a ton of fun with Atari 8 bit without ever touching a floppy or tape drive or some other archaic, troublesome peripheral. Grab an XEGS and it's just like any other console.

 

True, and with an Atarimax Atari 8-bit flash cart, you really cant go wrong.

[ApolloBoy]

 

I voted for Atari 800 (though I think if you want one that looks really cool, you should go for the XEGS). Atari 8-bit isn't the perfect platform. There's floppy drives to deal with...but there's plenty of games on cartridges too. So many, in fact, that you can have a ton of fun with Atari 8 bit without ever touching a floppy or tape drive or some other archaic, troublesome peripheral. Grab an XEGS and it's just like any other console.

 

True, and with an Atarimax Atari 8-bit flash cart, you really cant go wrong.

Don't forget about the SIO2PC as well. I love mine and it can greatly expand the number of games you can play on the 8-bit.

[Videogamecollector123]

As for the apple II I forgot about that, but I'm not sure about the game library, I'm leaning towards a commodore 64 but I'm open to other computer suggestions, I'm ruling out the Intellevision and Colecovision now. My concern for floppys are that they are limited life and loose their data over time as the magnetic alighnment is lost. So if someone can give me more info on the apple II that would be great

[Videogamecollector123]

Thanks for all the information everybody this really helps,

[BassGuitari]

As for the apple II I forgot about that, but I'm not sure about the game library, I'm leaning towards a commodore 64 but I'm open to other computer suggestions, I'm ruling out the Intellevision and Colecovision now.

 

If you're just looking at computers now, don't forget about the TI-99 4/a or TRS-80 Color Computer.

[vdub_bobby]

I'm going to rule out the Atari 800. Not that it isn't a great machine or that you shouldn't bother with it (certainly not true; I love it), but since you already have an Atari 5200, you kind of have an idea of what the 800 is like. So, unless you're getting floppies and non-5200 games, there's not much new there for you.

 

I dunno, the 5200 has a 120-game library; while AtariMania lists 8000+ (!!) games for the A800; they list 368 carts alone for the A8, including a bunch of stuff not available for the 5200 like Airball, BC's Quest for Tires, Blue Max, Caverns of Mars, Crossbow, Crystal Castles, Desert Falcon, Fort Apocalypse, Into the Eagle's Nest, Jumpman Junior, etc. etc.