Newest tube TV that still works with older light gun games?

[SRGilbert]

Thinking about getting a different tube TV for my game room as I've never been very happy with the 32" Toshiba that I have now.

 

Thought about getting a Sony 32" that has component inputs, but I've come to understand that some of the most recent models don't work with light guns. Something about it being 100hz? How would I know if a particular TV would work or not without testing it? I have like 6 or 7 systems that use light guns to some extent, and I'm not willing to give that up for a slightly better picture!

[the.golden.ax]

I'm pleased with both the Toshiba and Sony's. The local game store has a Samsung SlimFit that I'm in love with (32" that is only 16" deep) but I have not remembered to take a light gun down there to try it.

 

AX

[Rybags]

It's usually only the high-end ones will have the doubled rate, and they (sales, advertising) use it as a selling point.

 

Supposedly some people can detect CRT flicker (esp 50 Hz) with their peripheral vision, and also it's supposed to be more evident if the room lighting is the old style strip flouros.

[STICH666]

It's usually only the high-end ones will have the doubled rate, and they (sales, advertising) use it as a selling point.

 

Supposedly some people can detect CRT flicker (esp 50 Hz) with their peripheral vision, and also it's supposed to be more evident if the room lighting is the old style strip flouros.

Yep sitting off the side of my CRT monitor I can see it with my peripheral.

[Luke359]

Dont those light guns work with LCD of plasma TV's? I never thought about that

[the.golden.ax]

Dont those light guns work with LCD of plasma TV's? I never thought about that

 

Nope. Isn't that sad?

 

AX

[Kenny_McCormic]

We need a box that emulates phosphor glow on new TVs.

[Hatta]

Thinking about getting a different tube TV for my game room as I've never been very happy with the 32" Toshiba that I have now.

 

Thought about getting a Sony 32" that has component inputs, but I've come to understand that some of the most recent models don't work with light guns. Something about it being 100hz? How would I know if a particular TV would work or not without testing it? I have like 6 or 7 systems that use light guns to some extent, and I'm not willing to give that up for a slightly better picture!

 

 

I have a 32" flat screen SD Sony Wega(Trinitron) TV that I do all my classic gaming on. It works great for light guns. Dunno if you're looking at one of these, or one of the CRT HDTVs they sold later on. If you get one that doesn't do 480P or anything higher, you can rest assured that your light guns will work on it. Otherwise you'll want to test it.

 

Be aware that there are minor issues with geometry on these flat screens. I only notice it on mine when I play Super Mario Bros.. There's a tiny bit of warping in the bricks as he runs by. In terms of color and clarity it's beautiful.

[Video]

All I can say, is stick with 3/4 TV's, and anything not flat screened. I've never had a true traditional TV not play a light gun game, but some of those weird aspecct TV's or the flat screens won't work right.

 

Otherwise, you could get a Wii, it just uses the TV for up and down and the light bar for left and right (as I understand it) or most of those P'n'P TV gun games (just make sure it says it's for "all" TV's)

[pinball22]

Our Sony 4:3 HD CRT does not work with traditional light guns, so I assume other HD CRTs don't either. Definitely non-CRT TVs don't.

[Video]

Yeah, I'd probably stay away from anything HD. An ED TV maybe, but HD forget it.

[SRGilbert]

Still on the lookout for a replacement tube tv.

 

From the sound of it, this Sony http://www.amazon.co...V/dp/B00005U231

 

would probably not work? I couldn't find anything about it being 100mhz but these specs are from Amazon.

 

Technical Details

• 36-inch flat-screen HD-ready TV; measures 39.25 x 29.75 x 24.5 inches (W x H x D)
• 3-line digital comb filter, 4:3 aspect ratio (16:9 enhanced); 3:2 pulldown processing
• Compatible with 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i formats; Digital Reality Creation MultiFunction feature
• 2 component-video inputs, 3 A/V inputs (2 front, 1 rear), 2 RF inputs, and 3 S-video inputs (2 front, 1 rear)

• I have a line on one of these for a good price, but I need to be sure before I move a 270lb tv into my basement! Maybe I'll have to bring a Dreamcast with me to test it first! I have a bad feeling it wont work though.

[pinball22]

I'm pretty sure that won't work with light guns -- it's not the same model as in our game room, but similar. Definitely try before you buy if light guns are a must-have.

[SRGilbert]

Ok, still dragging this topic back to life.

 

From what I've been able to figure out, as long as it's not a PROGRESSIVE SCAN display, it should still work with light guns, right?

 

Sony did make models that had component inputs but were only 480i. Right now, I have my PS2, modded Xbox and Gamecube all hooked up through a switcher to the only Svideo input on my TV. Even though it wouldn't be a progressive signal, would I see much improvement using the component input on a 480i tube tv?

[potatohead]

If it were me, I would get a last generation ordinary definition CRT, with progressive scan capability. The key is "progressive capable", not full on progressive displays with video processing. The "progressive capable" units don't have any fancy video processing between the game system and the image, and only progressive scan on their component video inputs. All other video is displayed as the game system renders it.

 

I almost threw my older SONY WEGA CRT out. The damn thing weighs a lot! However, it will do progressive scan, has components, and, if you get into the service menu, can be set to display all but a small percentage of a full NTSC frame. It's big, 40" or so, heavy, but renders old systems perfectly, and is a flat screen, glass tube.

 

These things can be found in the thrifties big right now. Usually about 50 bucks, and I would totally go for one, because they render ordinary definition video perfectly. See my blog for a coupla photos right from the TV. The quality is excellent. One thing I would look for is the option to either enable or disable comb filtering. On older systems, where there is no interlaced color (Atari 8bit, vcs, 7800) turning that off gives a sharp "period correct" look, even on plain old composite. If you've done an s-video mod, they will look very sharp.

 

On newer systems, (C64, NES) that do have interlaced color, turning that filter on really brings out the detail without as many artifacts.

 

For the ultimate experience when you get it, use your old computer to draw a bar graph and grey scales. The bar graph can help you set the focus, and you use the greys to balance the screen brightness, contrast for the correct "gamma", which makes the old colors really "pop".

 

TV's like this are made to run full duty cycle for years. I've had mine since it was new, and that was in the mid 90's, I think. Over the years, the only thing I've had to do is tweak the focus once or twice to keep "blooming" to a minimum, and redo the grey bars test a few times. It's not changed one bit otherwise. Ordinary DVD video, run through the progressive scan, component video looks monitor quality, and I actually prefer that to the upscaling and processing that occurs on the newer TV's.

 

I've not seen a non-crt able to do pixel perfect game graphics like that at all. All of it's upscaled, and video processed before I get to see it. The advantage to that is being able to read 80 column color text on the HDTV, because all the advanced filtering really pulls a lot out of a lousy signal. I like that. But the disadvantage is when gaming, there are motion artifacts, and or color / pixel artifacts across frames, depending on the mode / model of TV used.

 

My HDTV is a panny plasma, bought new last year. For movies and modern gaming, over HDMI, I highly recommend this. PS3 and 360 are excellent. It has a "game" mode that comes a lot closer to pixel perfect, monitor style display. PS2, run over component is excellent as well, and can do the higher definition displays possible, that the older SONY won't do. That looks good.

 

Running older Atari stuff is a mixed bag on that thing. VCS looks good, but is spotty. 8 bit computer looks ok, but I totally need an S-video mod to have things look good on the plasma, where plain old composite looks fantastic on the CRT WEGA. There are some differences in the processing there for sure.

 

The Dreamcast looks great on both actually! I like the video output of that machine all across the board.

 

I've run a bunch of different video signals from the Propeller on that WEGA too. It's display area is within 5 percent of being the entire frame. You may or may not like that, because some developers hid stuff in the borders that can be seen on the WEGA, particularly if you've opened it all the way up through the service menu. I like to see that stuff, so no worries. Anyway, I've sent good quality, modern type signals and low quality, classic type signals through that TV, and it was very tolerant of errors, and such, and because of that, it simply displays everything, even modded VCS machines, which won't always display well due to timing and overall signal quality issues that older TV's ignore, but newer ones have trouble with.

 

Well, crap! This post got long. If you've the room, right now is the time to score a really great, "best in class", old school, ordinary def+ progressive capable CRT, and that's what I would score. For the classics, I don't think there is anything better. I'm seriously glad I didn't ditch mine on the last move, and plan on keeping it in the "hobby room" for the longer haul. Back then, I dropped $1500 for it, and watched DVD component video on the PS2 back then. It was the shit, and still is frankly. Just saw one in the Goodwill for $50. Same model, maybe one notch newer, and with the same attributes. The only problem is getting it home!! (bring two friends)

 

Well, Al is working on the blogs. When he's done, the "A well known image" post has a high-resolution photo taken right from the screen. You will like what you see

Edited March 7, 2010 by potatohead

[potatohead]

Re: Flicker.

 

Pal runs at 50Hz, and does show flicker to my eyes when it's driven at a high contrast. Dimming the room lights, while rolling back on the "picture" or "contrast" setting cuts this considerably. Also PAL does color averaging, and when the color saturation is cranked up, I can see that on moving things, and or when I move my eyes around.

 

NTSC runs higher, 60Hz, and the flicker still shows to me, and the same compensation applies too. It does not have the color averaging, trading that for artifacts instead. (that's where pixels plotted in specific parts of the screen show bits of color)

 

One thing about the new TV's, is they generate color at rapid frequencies, that result in color artifacts when moving eyes, just like a PAL display does! I notice this on bright scenes on the plasma. CRT devices don't do this, and that's one of the reasons why I kept the old sony. Moving objects are pixel perfect on that thing, and they are not always pixel perfect on the newer sets with the higher refresh rates and video processing. I don't know about the new OLED sets, as I've not viewed one, but the DLP, Plasma sets do it plain as day. I've also not viewed many LCD sets, but I don't think they do it, either.

[Dittohead Servbot #24]

The problem with CRT's though, is that the last couple I've seen tilts the picture (it's most clearly visible in Super Mario Bros as you'll notice the bottom bricks don't align with the picture border perfectly) and chops off the very outer borders of the playing field. But with our current HDTV, you can see the entire playing field and the picture is not tilted at all.

[SRGilbert]

Thanks for the reply Potatohead, but it didn't quite answer the question of playing light gun games. Can you suggest a model that is "progressive capable" that will still work with classic lightgun games?

[potatohead]

KV-32FV15 From the specs I saw, that one would work.

 

That's one of the very latest ones. Just make sure it's standard def. The newer HD capable models feature video processing and higher scan rates. That's the problem with the light guns. You need 1:1 scanning of the video signal. Most TV's made before 2002 or so, are gonna do that. Actually, there are a ton of them made later than that too, but it starts to get iffy.

 

Another way this is detailed is 480p or 480i.

 

The 480pi modes are standard definition modes, and are the ones where light guns will work. The problem with newer CRT sets is they take the 480ip signal, process it, then present it at a higher refresh and or resolution with a little computer processing the signal. All the timing for the light gun is lost that way.

 

p = progressive, like a computer monitor, i = interlaced like an older school TV.

 

KV 32FS100 - I think this one would work also. It's got 16:9 capability, which scrunches all the scanlines into a smaller vertical area. My TV is one older than this, and I'm not where I can read the model number, or I would. That feature is user selectable, and really rocks with progressive scan DVD, but can be ignored for gaming. The TV I have does not have this feature.

Edited March 8, 2010 by potatohead

[SRGilbert]

KV-32FV15 From the specs I saw, that one would work.

 

That's one of the very latest ones. Just make sure it's standard def. The newer HD capable models feature video processing and higher scan rates. That's the problem with the light guns. You need 1:1 scanning of the video signal. Most TV's made before 2002 or so, are gonna do that. Actually, there are a ton of them made later than that too, but it starts to get iffy.

 

Another way this is detailed is 480p or 480i.

 

The 480pi modes are standard definition modes, and are the ones where light guns will work. The problem with newer CRT sets is they take the 480ip signal, process it, then present it at a higher refresh and or resolution with a little computer processing the signal. All the timing for the light gun is lost that way.

 

p = progressive, like a computer monitor, i = interlaced like an older school TV.

 

KV 32FS100 - I think this one would work also. It's got 16:9 capability, which scrunches all the scanlines into a smaller vertical area. My TV is one older than this, and I'm not where I can read the model number, or I would. That feature is user selectable, and really rocks with progressive scan DVD, but can be ignored for gaming. The TV I have does not have this feature.

 

Thanks, funny you should mention the 32FS100, there is one on my local CL. Looks like a decent simple TV with component inputs, but that one does not accept progressive scan signals, only 480i over the component inputs.

 

That's why I was wondering about the picture quality and if I would be missing out by not having progressive with the newer consoles. I know it's hard to expect one type of display to do it all, but that's what I want!

 

Funny thing is that I have two other perfectly good flatscreen plasmas set up in the house. In the living room is my pride and joy, my Pioneer Kuro 5020FD 50" 1080p plasma with an Xbox and PS2 connected with component cables and an older (but still really nice) Panasonic 42" ED 480p plasma in the bedroom hooked up to another Xbox mostly for XBMC.

[potatohead]

I don't miss the progressive capability at all for gaming. The only thing it really matters on is DVD video.

 

The newer consoles do progressive scan, and that's pretty cool actually. I don't game with the newer consoles on a standard def TV anymore. Once you go HI-DEF on the 360 / PS3, it's really limiting to go back to standard def.

 

So, if you really are wanting a good classic gaming TV, I would not worry about the progressive scan, particularly, if you are going to get an HD set for the living room, or something. That's what we ended up doing, and it's just great. I never classic game on the big set, and nobody cares about the nice ordinary def TV in the other room, so it all works out fine.

 

It all comes down to whether or not you are serious about newer gaming in regular def, and DVD movies. If those are high on your list, keep looking for an ordinary def / with progressive 16:9 option. Sony made those in the late 90's, and they are sweet, but hard to find. If you can give those up, great TV's that do 480i are cheap and can't be beat for classic gaming, IMHO.

 

 

 

 

KV-32FV15 From the specs I saw, that one would work.

 

That's one of the very latest ones. Just make sure it's standard def. The newer HD capable models feature video processing and higher scan rates. That's the problem with the light guns. You need 1:1 scanning of the video signal. Most TV's made before 2002 or so, are gonna do that. Actually, there are a ton of them made later than that too, but it starts to get iffy.

 

Another way this is detailed is 480p or 480i.

 

The 480pi modes are standard definition modes, and are the ones where light guns will work. The problem with newer CRT sets is they take the 480ip signal, process it, then present it at a higher refresh and or resolution with a little computer processing the signal. All the timing for the light gun is lost that way.

 

p = progressive, like a computer monitor, i = interlaced like an older school TV.

 

KV 32FS100 - I think this one would work also. It's got 16:9 capability, which scrunches all the scanlines into a smaller vertical area. My TV is one older than this, and I'm not where I can read the model number, or I would. That feature is user selectable, and really rocks with progressive scan DVD, but can be ignored for gaming. The TV I have does not have this feature.

 

Thanks, funny you should mention the 32FS100, there is one on my local CL. Looks like a decent simple TV with component inputs, but that one does not accept progressive scan signals, only 480i over the component inputs.

 

That's why I was wondering about the picture quality and if I would be missing out by not having progressive with the newer consoles. I know it's hard to expect one type of display to do it all, but that's what I want!

 

Funny thing is that I have two other perfectly good flatscreen plasmas set up in the house. In the living room is my pride and joy, my Pioneer Kuro 5020FD 50" 1080p plasma with an Xbox and PS2 connected with component cables and an older (but still really nice) Panasonic 42" ED 480p plasma in the bedroom hooked up to another Xbox mostly for XBMC.