Could Super Mario Bros. 3 have been possible for the 7800?

[AtariLeaf]

Somebody has been visiting Digital Press .

 

 

I thought this damn thread looked familiar

[Armonigann]

Somebody has been visiting Digital Press .

 

 

I thought this damn thread looked familiar

Yeah, I figured people here would notice the thread, but I was curious as to what people here on AA had to say considering this is by far my most active and most respected site.

[Shawn]

 

SMB used a MMC1.

 

 

 

Actually SMB1 is NROM which is even more simple mapping into 4 x 8k banks of PRG data and 2x 4k CHR banks.

[Mord]

Somebody has been visiting Digital Press .

 

 

I thought this damn thread looked familiar

Yeah, I figured people here would notice the thread, but I was curious as to what people here on AA had to say considering this is by far my most active and most respected site.

 

For those of us who don't visit Digital Press, anyone mind dropping a link to the other thread?

[8th lutz]

 

 

For those of us who don't visit Digital Press, anyone mind dropping a link to the other thread?

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=110855

Edited December 20, 2009 by 8th lutz

[Mord]

 

 

For those of us who don't visit Digital Press, anyone mind dropping a link to the other thread?

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=110855

 

Thanks for that.

 

I do find it a bit amusing that one prevailing argument is going like this:

 

"Yes, the 7800 could do a SMB3 style game!"

 

vs

 

"No, the 7800 can't do SMB3."

 

 

The thing about the 7800 is that you'll have one of two things happen in most any game.

 

1. The resolution suffers to gain more color.

 

2. The color suffers to pull off 320 modes.

 

The problem being that the 7800 simply won't have the time to do the necessary DLs for both for the entire width of the screen. So the people there are right. Even if you tried to poor SMB3, it's either going to be in 160 mode or have mono-color tiles and sprites.

 

In other words, it'll look like shit.

 

Even if you put another CPU on the cartridge to build the screen, you're going to have to find a VERY efficient way of drawing it all on the screen each scanline to maximize the color while keeping the resolution at 320.

 

I hope someone can prove me wrong and pull it off all the same.

[Kurisu]

Then just do the game in low res mode. Again, if a clone game would be made, rather than an actual attempt to port it, then it should be fine, as the creator would have the freedom to work around with what they have.

 

Maybe I do need perspective though: What resolutions do Galaga, Pole Position 2, Desert Falcon, and other decently known 7800 games run on? If those are at 160 then I have no objection.

[Shawn]

If the MSX can do a Mario 1,2,3 and World clone that is of acceptable & fully playable quality I see no reason the 7800 couldn't do the same. Is anything like Mario 3 or Mario World gonna be a 1:1 port? Hell no! Would it be sweet none the less to have a Mario platformer on the 7800? Hell Ya

 

 

 

 

[PacManPlus]

Staying with the 160 mode for the 7800 (I don't think there are enough colors/CPU cycles in 320 mode to do everything SMB needs to do), this is what it would look like:

 

 

128H x 208V (I had to remove 2 zones to get it to fit). 16 High Zones. I also changed the colors of the hills in the background to match the capabilites of the 7800. The score lines are two 8 High Zones in 320 mode (no sprites in these two zones). The white clouds are a DLI color change.

 

... Actually not as bad-looking as I thought. Maybe someone with more 7800 talent can figure out some tricks for 320 mode, but I don't think so. It's too much.

[Gorf]

Staying with the 160 mode for the 7800 (I don't think there are enough colors/CPU cycles in 320 mode to do everything SMB needs to do), this is what it would look like:

 

 

128H x 208V (I had to remove 2 zones to get it to fit). 16 High Zones. I also changed the colors of the hills in the background to match the capabilites of the 7800. The score lines are two 8 High Zones in 320 mode (no sprites in these two zones). The white clouds are a DLI color change.

 

... Actually not as bad-looking as I thought. Maybe someone with more 7800 talent can figure out some tricks for 320 mode, but I don't think so. It's too much.

 

It looks as good as the NES version from what I remember and it probably wont flicker

like hell like the NES version does. By the way PMP, have you taken a look at the sources

for that certain popular title I sent you?

 

You might find the way I've set up the DLL system to be much more efficient for 320 mode stuff.

It's all static with field parameter updates only needed. Once the list is built you only need

to update the x,y image info when necessary. In fact if you look at mission one of the source you

might see just how simple it is to get your Invaders port to move the invaders individually.

 

Any questions, just PM me.

Edited January 3, 2010 by Gorf

[Shawn]

Staying with the 160 mode for the 7800 (I don't think there are enough colors/CPU cycles in 320 mode to do everything SMB needs to do), this is what it would look like:

 

 

128H x 208V (I had to remove 2 zones to get it to fit). 16 High Zones. I also changed the colors of the hills in the background to match the capabilites of the 7800. The score lines are two 8 High Zones in 320 mode (no sprites in these two zones). The white clouds are a DLI color change.

 

... Actually not as bad-looking as I thought. Maybe someone with more 7800 talent can figure out some tricks for 320 mode, but I don't think so. It's too much.

 

 

So now that you posted that screen I feel your obligated to write the whole damn thing from start to finish. I expect you to have something on my desk by the end of the week or your fired.

[gambler172]

Staying with the 160 mode for the 7800 (I don't think there are enough colors/CPU cycles in 320 mode to do everything SMB needs to do), this is what it would look like:

 

 

128H x 208V (I had to remove 2 zones to get it to fit). 16 High Zones. I also changed the colors of the hills in the background to match the capabilites of the 7800. The score lines are two 8 High Zones in 320 mode (no sprites in these two zones). The white clouds are a DLI color change.

 

... Actually not as bad-looking as I thought. Maybe someone with more 7800 talent can figure out some tricks for 320 mode, but I don't think so. It's too much.

Hi Bob

I think,this looks ok for a Mario game on the 7800.

greetings walter

[GroovyBee]

Staying with the 160 mode for the 7800 (I don't think there are enough colors/CPU cycles in 320 mode to do everything SMB needs to do), this is what it would look like:

 

Hmmm... I'll think we'll have to agree to disagree on this .

[PacManPlus]

Staying with the 160 mode for the 7800 (I don't think there are enough colors/CPU cycles in 320 mode to do everything SMB needs to do), this is what it would look like:

 

Hmmm... I'll think we'll have to agree to disagree on this .

 

I had a feeling you would, hence my disclaimer as the last sentence of that post. I have heard that 320 mode is a CPU *hog* so I tend to stay on the safe side and try not to do too much when using it. I am not good at cycle-counting (which is the main reason I started programming the 7800 instead of the 2600), and I have no way of measuring cycles, so I err on the side of caution.

 

@Gorf - I did get it, but didn't have a chance to look at it yet. I had actually started another game even before FailSafe which I am now back to (see my avatar) but I will definately start working with it after this one. Thank you and I really appreciate you sending me that. Don't worry - I *will* be contacting you once I start this because I'm sure I will have questions.

 

@Shawn Sr. -

[GroovyBee]

I had a feeling you would, hence my disclaimer as the last sentence of that post. I have heard that 320 mode is a CPU *hog* so I tend to stay on the safe side and try not to do too much when using it. I am not good at cycle-counting (which is the main reason I started programming the 7800 instead of the 2600), and I have no way of measuring cycles, so I err on the side of caution.

I wouldn't attempt it in the 320 modes tho. Don't get me wrong, you can do some interesting stuff in those modes. I just think that 160 mode could be much more colourful than your image shows is all I'm going to say at the moment .

[PacManPlus]

Ah - the 12 color thing. I actually forgot about that. Been dying to try it, though. I don't have a good editor to work on Characters/Sprites for it. What do you use?

[DracIsBack]

I just think that 160 mode could be much more colourful than your image shows is all I'm going to say at the moment .

 

Perhaps you could create a little demo to show us what you're thinking?

[GroovyBee]

Ah - the 12 color thing. I actually forgot about that. Been dying to try it, though. I don't have a good editor to work on Characters/Sprites for it. What do you use?

Nope! More than 12 colours too .

 

For 160B mode I use my own graphics conversion tool. Its almost ready to release on its own now . I recently added DASM support too (it only supported CC65 before that). It now does 160A, 160B, 320A and 320B graphics from Windows 256 colour *.BMP files (using the ProSystem NTSC palette).

[GroovyBee]

Perhaps you could create a little demo to show us what you're thinking?

Patience, patience, patience!

[kenfused]

Staying with the 160 mode for the 7800 (I don't think there are enough colors/CPU cycles in 320 mode to do everything SMB needs to do), this is what it would look like:

 

 

128H x 208V (I had to remove 2 zones to get it to fit). 16 High Zones. I also changed the colors of the hills in the background to match the capabilites of the 7800. The score lines are two 8 High Zones in 320 mode (no sprites in these two zones). The white clouds are a DLI color change.

 

... Actually not as bad-looking as I thought. Maybe someone with more 7800 talent can figure out some tricks for 320 mode, but I don't think so. It's too much.

I use 12 color mode for the background in b*nQ and Beef Drop with a 128H screen. b*nQ even has 12 color objects for b*nQ & Snakey but that might be getting to the point of pushing it if you will have a lot of other objects on the same row. With DLI's of course you can get even more colors. Notice in the nes mario that top of the clouds is the same of one of the small bushes, lol, just a different color, that always bugged me playing the game. IMO we would have half the horizontal resolution but it should be possible to make it much more colorful and none of that flicker.

[DracIsBack]

Perhaps you could create a little demo to show us what you're thinking?

Patience, patience, patience!

 

Don't work yourself to the bone though. Between Apple Snaffle, your Halloween game and your RPG, I'm sure you've got lots going on already!

[GroovyBee]

Don't work yourself to the bone though. Between Apple Snaffle, your Halloween game and your RPG, I'm sure you've got lots going on already!

But sometimes you just have to know if a neat trick/quirk you thought of is going to work on the real machine. Then you start making a game around it...

[Mord]

 

Notice in the nes mario that top of the clouds is the same of one of the small bushes, lol, just a different color, that always bugged me playing the game.

 

...

 

I'll never be able to play SMB the same way again now.

[gdement]

The white clouds are a DLI color change.

I'm confused about this part - the maria never releases the bus in the middle of drawing a scanline, does it?

Maybe you mean the cloud color is being changed between white and light blue.. but I don't get that either because there's lines where both white and blue appear next to each other.

 

I'm sure you know what you're doing, so I must be misunderstanding something.

[PacManPlus]

The white clouds are a DLI color change.

I'm confused about this part - the maria never releases the bus in the middle of drawing a scanline, does it?

Maybe you mean the cloud color is being changed between white and light blue.. but I don't get that either because there's lines where both white and blue appear next to each other.

 

I'm sure you know what you're doing, so I must be misunderstanding something.

 

The third zone DL down (after the two 320 mode score lines), put a DLI to change the Character mode to use white, light blue, and black. At the sixth DL down (just under the lower cloud), put a DLI to change the Character mode to use tan, brown, and black. Of course this means that no bricks/question mark boxes can be in the same zone as the clouds (or they would share the same color) but this would work. I used this in Super Pac-Man as suggested by kenfused (I change the color to green for the Super Pills, and back to lt blue for the Keys).

 

Of course, this is all null and void if we either use 12 color mode or when GroovyBee finally decides to share with us how he does it

 

Bob