Flojomojo Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 The first post in this topic is interesting in that it's all about collecting the old cartridges and systems, and their scarcity. I think there's a floor on the demand as the old fans age. But nothing about the changing state of AV connectors, emulation, and FPGA, which is where I (a player, not much of a collector) live. In 2030 will "retro" be playing Fortnite the way we play DOOM in 2019? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercylon Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 I think Fortnite will largely be forgotten, but people may still be playing Doom in 2030. I don't play Fortnite at all, but isn't the social experience a big part of it? People will move on to the next social experience long before 2030 comes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectorGamer Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 Years ago when I was still collecting cartridges I would go to the nearest gaming expo and the marketplace was dominated by Nintendo. Atari was hard to find and what was available wasn't all that great. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 44 minutes ago, cybercylon said: I think Fortnite will largely be forgotten, but people may still be playing Doom in 2030. I don't play Fortnite at all, but isn't the social experience a big part of it? People will move on to the next social experience long before 2030 comes. I'm not sure about that ...the recent release of old-school World of Warcraft (and Blizzard games in general) seem huge, with their own conventions and really devoted fans who still pour money into everything they do. Doom is fun too but IMHO lacks the impact, except when it's running on weird hardware. https://itrunsdoom.tumblr.com Fortnite is social but also ubiquitous, fits in your pocket or on a game console, and changes every season. I wouldn't be surprised it it stuck around for a very long time, like Minecraft. I'm on the outside of all 3 groups and don't have any numbers. We are probably both wrong. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juansolo Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 (edited) My worry for 2030 is the current gen of software that is all DRM and/or 'games as a service'. So on PC, *if* your games service of choice is still around (steam/epic/battlenet/etc) you might be ok. If not, all those games you bought, you don't own... GOG aside who let you download the installers and are DRM free. Anything online or needing online activation is pretty much screwed. Digital on console it's potentially worse as we're already seeing things getting pulled. The Wii Store for example. I'm amazed the Wii U store still exists given Nintendo did their absolute best to bury the existance of that console so they could scavange it's corpse for 'new' games for the Switch. Getting games on disc doesn't guarentee they'll work in future either given that most games these days ship broken and in need of a day one patch to make them work. The future is grim for retro gamers... Edited December 31, 2019 by juansolo 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercylon Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 Oh... I am probably wrong. I don't play Doom all that much either . Outside the Halo franchise, I don't play shooters all that much. Even with Halo, I have lost some interest as the single player campaign has taken a back seat to multiplayer. I am not interested in multiplayer as I am not good enough and don't want to deal with 13 year old potty mouths. Bleh. I think the single player experience will still be out there in 2030, and even though I think some modern games will have that in 2030, to what extent? So it is possible that some will seek out older games. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLeaf Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 5 hours ago, Random Terrain said: I'll set an Atari 2600 joystick on fire and shove it up my ass! Like and subscribe! Like and subscribe! Like and subscribe!!!!!!!!! I suspect you could make a fortune on Patreon with that kind of content. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 @cybercylon my little spies just informed me that Fortnite is "dead" and Minecraft is bigger than ever. Make of that what you will. @juansolo old cartridges were like DRM long ago -- we knew of cartridge copiers but they seemed impossibly expensive. I agree re digital stores, but "the future is grim for retro gamers?" Maybe for collectors, but I still marvel that I can have the entire contents of a 1998-era Babbages or Software Etc store on a flash memory device the size of my pinky nail, and run emulators on $50 microcomputers. The good outweighs the bad by a large margin if you look at it from the right angle. Fast wireless networking everywhere has the potential to be a literal game-changer. At least until the electromagnetic pulse weapons of the 2028 cyber war wipe out my life savings and all my "digital goods" just as I'm getting ready to retire. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamchevy Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 [mention=20719]cybercylon[/mention] my little spies just informed me that Fortnite is "dead" and Minecraft is bigger than ever. Make of that what you will. [mention=49282]juansolo[/mention] old cartridges were like DRM long ago -- we knew of cartridge copiers but they seemed impossibly expensive. I agree re digital stores, but "the future is grim for retro gamers?" Maybe for collectors, but I still marvel that I can have the entire contents of a 1998-era Babbages or Software Etc store on a flash memory device the size of my pinky nail, and run emulators on $50 microcomputers. The good outweighs the bad by a large margin if you look at it from the right angle. Fast wireless networking everywhere has the potential to be a literal game-changer. At least until the electromagnetic pulse weapons of the 2028 cyber war wipe out my life savings and all my "digital goods" just as I'm getting ready to retire. Out here in the outer rim of Utah most of my neighbors and friends have prepared for the emp pulse wars of 2028. Most have a classic car without any electronics parked in their garage with oil and gas reserves. Also, I know of a few that have real bunkers with food, alcohol, coffee, and tobacco reserves stashed. I’ve been trying to do my part by learning to plant and maintain a size able garden every year. We try and can everything we can from our garden each year. I think many of my neighbors will be sad if it doesn’t happen. Also many have a lot of gun and ammo reserves. The biggest hobby out here is reloading bullets and hunting/fishing. So yeah, I’m a little bit strange by comparison, but that could be said of anywhere I live. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 ¡Aye Carumba! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluswimmer Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 Someone earlier in the thread mentioned the Jakks Pacific plug and play systems as being the "last hope" for Atari collecting- funnily enough, that's exactly where I was first exposed to 2600 games as a child. I'm 20 now, and I absolutely believe the system has some value; I don't think I would've started making homebrew if I felt otherwise. I feel like people I know tend to dismiss the more arcade-like games that the 2600 tends to offer. I've even seen early NES games, like Balloon Fight or Donkey Kong, get dismissed as repetitive. Given that these sorts of games make up a large portion of the pre-Nintendo library, I suppose they just don't see much value in collecting them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 8 hours ago, cybercylon said: I think Fortnite will largely be forgotten, but people may still be playing Doom in 2030. I don't play Fortnite at all, but isn't the social experience a big part of it? People will move on to the next social experience long before 2030 comes. I don't know if there is any social experience with fortnite. Not in the traditional genuine sense. It's all 13-yr olds gabbing and swearing. The Atari VCS had far more social experience than any of these multi-player online games could ever have. We all got into room and read books, did board games, told stories, made BMX plans, built electronics together, and more - all while waiting our turn at the console. The VCS bought us together, and other things just happened in concurrence. That doesn't happen with fortnite or whatever is popular now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonGrafx-16 Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 18 hours ago, Mr SQL said: Brand recognition increases in the future after Atari is embued with Sang-froid This is just a sign that the Atari VCS (Atacobox) won't be released until 2048... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 8 hours ago, cybercylon said: I think Fortnite will largely be forgotten, but people may still be playing Doom in 2030. I don't play Fortnite at all, but isn't the social experience a big part of it? People will move on to the next social experience long before 2030 comes. I would tend to think Doom will still be played for decades to come. Fortnite? No. Older people tend to play games that are simpler and more creative. And unique. I also believe preservationists will need to build-up a fortnite server from scratch if there is hope of playing it like it was intended to be played. So, who is doing that? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr SQL Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 9 hours ago, Flojomojo said: The first post in this topic is interesting in that it's all about collecting the old cartridges and systems, and their scarcity. I think there's a floor on the demand as the old fans age. But nothing about the changing state of AV connectors, emulation, and FPGA, which is where I (a player, not much of a collector) live. In 2030 will "retro" be playing Fortnite the way we play DOOM in 2019? Great observation! I think the VIC-20 Denial forum shows a direction we will see more of where games are played in browser based emulators: https://sleepingelephant.com/denial/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_2000 Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 I might by totally wrong, but certain trends of digital storefronts in 2020 give me some hope for 2030. The Xbox Series X will launch with backwards compatibility for every Xbox One game (and every Xbox and Xbox 360 game that works on the Xbox One). The Playstation 5 will launch with full backwards compatibility for every Playstation 4 Game. Obviously, all digital purchases will carry over to the next generation, and apparently they'll have improvements on the new hardware (such as improved loading times via the SSD). Given recent trends, I'd imagine that the ninth console generation will last 7-ish years the PS6 and some other Xbox will be released for Holiday 2027. By that point, the major consoles and their digital storefronts will have everything released between 2013-2027 available and I can't imagine that Microsoft and Sony will decide to stop selling all those games on their 2027 consoles-- if they do that they'll lose money and alienate fans, it wouldn't make sense. Of course, that's assuming that Sony and Microsoft are still making consoles by 2027, and who knows what the future holds. I'm predicting that the state of Game Consoles in 2030 is that they'll be a lot like PCs: backwards compatible with decades of earlier content. I do not have any predictions for Nintendo's future because the only thing that's predictable about Nintendo is that nobody can predict Nintendo. They might follow the trend of backwards compatibility, or they might not. However, I do believe that the future of Playstation and Xbox Hardware is backwards compatibility with all physical and digital games so hopefully we'll still be playing all of our digital purchases from the past console generation when 2030 rolls around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 6 hours ago, Mr SQL said: Great observation! I think the VIC-20 Denial forum shows a direction we will see more of where games are played in browser based emulators: https://sleepingelephant.com/denial/ With respect. I sure as hell hope not. Browser-based emulators suck and are prone to going away at any time. And they don't support subtle CRT/TV effects like Blargg/BGFX/GLSL/HLSL and others. Many people complain emulation doesn't feel like the real thing. Well I got news for you buddy. Browser-based stuff is 10x worse. At least with something like MAME, Stella, or Altirra & VICE, it somewhat feels like your computer IS the real thing. A bit of a stretch, but it's there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7800 2 Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 Well, I'm part of the younger generation and I'm still interested in pre-Nintendo consoles. I got interested in older console from my mom's old 2600 when I was younger. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 19 hours ago, Random Terrain said: Whenever I get my hands on a classic console, I put it in a microwave or smash it with a sledgehammer and upload the video of it to YouTube. Like and subscribe! Don't miss the live premier next week. I'll set an Atari 2600 joystick on fire and shove it up my ass! Like and subscribe! Like and subscribe! Like and subscribe!!!!!!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr SQL Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Keatah said: With respect. I sure as hell hope not. Browser-based emulators suck and are prone to going away at any time. And they don't support subtle CRT/TV effects like Blargg/BGFX/GLSL/HLSL and others. Many people complain emulation doesn't feel like the real thing. Well I got news for you buddy. Browser-based stuff is 10x worse. At least with something like MAME, Stella, or Altirra & VICE, it somewhat feels like your computer IS the real thing. A bit of a stretch, but it's there. Good point browser based emu's can suddently change - I don't think they will vanish though because they are the prime candidates for a subscription model; they turn any device with a browser into an Atari or a VIC-20, while the disconnected emulators you install are static and not subject to change until you revise them. The CRT/TV effects are not well emulated yet and can break some games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 (edited) In some cases I'm quite pleased with how CRT/TV effects and such are done. Others not so much. I wonder at what point we'll say it's good enough and development will stop on those features? Because right now I see the effects are continuing to improve. And the point at which most of can say "it's good enough" is also hurtling toward our present time. Or look at it this way. No two arcade cabs or home console+TV are going to be adjusted exactly the same. Who's to say what is right and wrong here? Is factory-fresh the gold reference? There are many adjustment and hardware combos that are perfectly playable even though they are different from another cab/console. It's also to keep in mind that as this hardware ages each machine/display combo will become more different and unique; unfortunately to the point of becoming unplayable unless electronic work is done. This is where I see emulation as a gold reference. It is possible to have many different emulation setups and hardware combos producing an identical image across all of them. And once set up they will stay the same for decades. Edited January 1, 2020 by Keatah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juansolo Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 8 minutes ago, Keatah said: In some cases I'm quite pleased with how CRT/TV effects and such are done. Others not so much. I wonder at what point we'll say it's good enough and development will stop on those features? Because right now I see the effects are continuing to improve. And the point at which most of can say "it's good enough" is also hurtling toward our present time. For me that's MiSTer, it's got me retro gaming on a panel again because it just does everything so damn well, and it's just getting better all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 I haven't gotten into MiSTer much. Maybe that will change this year. It's a great option that is likely to be with us for some time. Perhaps it may even evolve into a MiSTer II at some point down the line. Dot-addressable displays are king when it comes to accuracy and consistency. I'm not sure what tech, if any, will replace the concept in the next 20 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Random Terrain Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 I think I've said this before. The Atari 2600 and other consoles will be recreated down to the last atom in a highly realistic holographic-style virtual world. No emulation will be required because these consoles will be exact copies of the real thing. They will look, sound, smell, and act as expected without lag or other problems. You'll also be able to "print" them physically if you want to deal with finding space for them. Most people will choose the virtual option. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+GoldLeader Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 2 hours ago, Random Terrain said: I think I've said this before. The Atari 2600 and other consoles will be recreated down to the last atom in a highly realistic holographic-style virtual world. No emulation will be required because these consoles will be exact copies of the real thing. They will look, sound, smell, and act as expected without lag or other problems. You'll also be able to "print" them physically if you want to deal with finding space for them. Most people will choose the virtual option. People will need something to do after the virtual orgy...(Oh, and remember No Smoking on the Holodeck) 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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