Internal PBI/ECI Interface

[flashjazzcat]

I hope this doesn't seem like a daft question, but were there ever any hard disk interfaces that hooked up via the parallel bus inside the 8-bit? I have an SIO2IDE board which I'm fitting inside my best 65XE, but with the emergence of a new PBI hard disk/SD card interface in the shape of SpeedDrive, I wondered if it was possible to hook up a 2.5" disk inside the case, connected to the parallel port. Surely this would be ultimate discreet performance solution.

Edited December 29, 2009 by flashjazzcat

[Rybags]

Pretty sure people have done IDE interfaces that have just been soldered direct to legs of chips/sockets.

 

Sounds perfectly valid to do a HDD install totally internally... if you can live with the birds nest that results.

[flashjazzcat]

Pretty sure people have done IDE interfaces that have just been soldered direct to legs of chips/sockets.

 

Sounds perfectly valid to do a HDD install totally internally... if you can live with the birds nest that results.

I think it would be an interesting project. I've always hankered after a totally self-contained system (INTSDX, internal HDD), which would just hook up to the PC via SIO2PC, or a USB connection so that the HDD would appear to the PC as a mass storage device. I'll achieve exactly this with my current set-up when it's done, but it would have been nice to have a fast parallel interface.

Edited December 29, 2009 by flashjazzcat

[Mathy]

Hello Jon

 

Erhard Puetz from Germany installed an MSC-IDE interface into his XE. At the time, he had to drill a hole in the PCB to get it to fit. But some members of the ABBUC, including Erhard, are working on a new version of the MSC-IDE interface which is much smaller. The prototype of this new version could be seen at the yearly meeting of the ABBUC last October in Herten, Germany. It was a lot smaller then the original version so fitting it inside a computer would not be a problem. And there would still be enough room for an IDE-CF card adaptor and a CF-card.

 

greetings

 

Mathy

[flashjazzcat]

Erhard Puetz from Germany installed an MSC-IDE interface into his XE. At the time, he had to drill a hole in the PCB to get it to fit. But some members of the ABBUC, including Erhard, are working on a new version of the MSC-IDE interface which is much smaller. The prototype of this new version could be seen at the yearly meeting of the ABBUC last October in Herten, Germany. It was a lot smaller then the original version so fitting it inside a computer would not be a problem. And there would still be enough room for an IDE-CF card adaptor and a CF-card.

Sounds exciting. Looking forward to seeing an example of one.

[Mathy]

Hello Jon

 

I've looked for a picture of the prototype of the new version of the MSC-IDE interface. It looks like this one is the only picture there is:

 

 

The guy holding the little box is mega-hz. The guy in the background (who's face can be seen just above mega-hz's right shoulder) is one of the hardware guys of the SIO2USB development team. The guy over his left shoulder is the developer of the game Electro Maniac!.

 

greetings

 

Mathy

[+bob1200xl]

This has been my day-to-day Atari for the last 10 years, or so. It started life with a 2.5 IDE drive, which was replaced by the current CF card setup. I replaced the power circuits with an external power supply in order to handle the current demands of the HDD - you wouldn't need to do that with the CF card. The controller card uses an SRAM and battery - you would use flash memory now.

 

It doesn't hook up to the PBI but it does use PBI protocol. It can support two IDE 'devices', if you like. I suppose that you could (with a higher capacity power supply) use an HDD and a CF card. Don't know why anyone would want to...

 

Without the battery, you could make this small enough to fit in an 800XL or a 130XE. It plugs into the ROM socket.

 

So, it isn't daft. It can be done.

 

Bob

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I hope this doesn't seem like a daft question, but were there ever any hard disk interfaces that hooked up via the parallel bus inside the 8-bit? I have an SIO2IDE board which I'm fitting inside my best 65XE, but with the emergence of a new PBI hard disk/SD card interface in the shape of SpeedDrive, I wondered if it was possible to hook up a 2.5" disk inside the case, connected to the parallel port. Surely this would be ultimate discreet performance solution.

[Mathy]

Hello guys

 

If a CF card is too small but you don't want to use a hard disk, you could of course try an SSD device.

 

greetings

 

Mathy

[jaybird3rd]

Well, I know this isn't an example of a PBI/ECI interface, but I have built an internal MyIDE interface by piggybacking the chips (74LS04, 74LS32, and 74LS245) onto other chips on the motherboard and running jumper wires inbetween them. I did this mainly because I already had a CF-to-IDE adapter to mount inside the case and didn't want to have to find a place for another small circuit board. With careful planning and with some shrink-sleeve tubing for cable consolidation, the "cable mess" actually isn't all that bad. I'm sure the same thing could be done for true PBI/ECI interfaces as well.

[flashjazzcat]

Hello Jon

 

I've looked for a picture of the prototype of the new version of the MSC-IDE interface. It looks like this one is the only picture there is:

 

 

The guy holding the little box is mega-hz. The guy in the background (who's face can be seen just above mega-hz's right shoulder) is one of the hardware guys of the SIO2USB development team. The guy over his left shoulder is the developer of the game Electro Maniac!.

It's also possible to see that mega-hz is wearing the t-shirt I wanted for Christmas. Kind of hard to see the device, but that just makes it all the more enticing. Intriguing...

 

This has been my day-to-day Atari for the last 10 years, or so. It started life with a 2.5 IDE drive, which was replaced by the current CF card setup. I replaced the power circuits with an external power supply in order to handle the current demands of the HDD - you wouldn't need to do that with the CF card. The controller card uses an SRAM and battery - you would use flash memory now.

 

It doesn't hook up to the PBI but it does use PBI protocol. It can support two IDE 'devices', if you like. I suppose that you could (with a higher capacity power supply) use an HDD and a CF card. Don't know why anyone would want to...

 

Without the battery, you could make this small enough to fit in an 800XL or a 130XE. It plugs into the ROM socket.

 

So, it isn't daft. It can be done.

 

Wow - some machine. Thanks for sharing this fascinating photograph and explanation.

 

Well, I know this isn't an example of a PBI/ECI interface, but I have built an internal MyIDE interface by piggybacking the chips (74LS04, 74LS32, and 74LS245) onto other chips on the motherboard and running jumper wires inbetween them. I did this mainly because I already had a CF-to-IDE adapter to mount inside the case and didn't want to have to find a place for another small circuit board. With careful planning and with some shrink-sleeve tubing for cable consolidation, the "cable mess" actually isn't all that bad. I'm sure the same thing could be done for true PBI/ECI interfaces as well.

 

I've had an SIO2IDE board populated and working for six months or more. But... I've never fitted it permanently in any machine yet. With the CF card and adapter, the whole contraption is over 6" long, and I still can't decide where to mount it in the case. I'm certainly leaning towards the idea of spreading it around the chassis: the USB port, for example, will fit neatly over at the opposite side of the motherboard, sitting behind the (unmodified) hole where the (now removed) RF socket used to be. A lot of the newer mods (especially RAM upgrades and VBXE) look remarkably neat, so I've no doubt a parallel HDD interface could be made to look fairly unobtrusive.

Edited December 29, 2009 by flashjazzcat

[candle]

Bob, where did RF modulator go? out of the window?

[Shawn Jefferson]

The 1450XLD did have an internal disk drive that connected via the PBI. There was/is a PBI connector (34 pins) on the inside of the case on the 1450 board for this. All other models, you would have to wire in ~50 lines to the PBI bus somewhere, which may cause a bit of a rat's nest definitely.

[+orpheuswaking]

Hello Jon

 

I've looked for a picture of the prototype of the new version of the MSC-IDE interface. It looks like this one is the only picture there is:

 

 

The guy holding the little box is mega-hz. The guy in the background (who's face can be seen just above mega-hz's right shoulder) is one of the hardware guys of the SIO2USB development team. The guy over his left shoulder is the developer of the game Electro Maniac!.

 

greetings

 

Mathy

 

So THAT'S what mega-hz looks like... not at all as I pictured him...

[MEtalGuy66]

If you remember, Beetle put an entire CSS BLACK BOX and FLOPPYBOARD inside his 1250XLD.. heh.. the PBI was 100% point-point wired too, as the 1200Xl motherboard has no PBI/ECI connector..

 

People have been doing Internal MyIDE's forever.. I made the first "plug in" internal kits, and then ATarimax took over when I quit making them.. They are still available and cheap.. The device is not compliant with the OS PBI code, but it does work with MyDOS, ATARI DOS, and SpartaDOS 3.3a PRO, and I think they were working on a patch for the new SDX 4.42 to use it.. It requires a custom OS ROM, (or a patch loaded to make it work).. But its really cheap, small, easy to install, and its pretty damn fast.. near 90Kbytes per second using a fast IDE/CF device..

 

I dont use them anymore because I like My PBI devices, and I like SpartaDOS 3.2x... But that doesn't mean its not a cheap, viable, and fast option for alot of people..