The official "ColecoVision 2" thread

[opcode]

More memorable tunes from the 80s that started on the YM2151 (links are for YM2151 versions only):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxcVk6ygHVE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79poPPkxAYk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGswImbRkaE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBXCV3tYRsg&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DT7VOIy9CY0&feature=related

 

Now that my source for chips has been verified, I am going to get the YM2151 DAC (YM3012) and the CV PSG next, 100 each. That gives us the complete sound chipset. Then after the Chinese new year we can go for the video stuff...

[Pixelboy]

Now that my source for chips has been verified, I am going to get the YM2151 DAC (YM3012) and the CV PSG next, 100 each. That gives us the complete sound chipset. Then after the Chinese new year we can go for the video stuff...

While we're on the subject of sound chips, I'd like to reissue my question: Certain MSX games make use of the SCC, (mostly Konami games) so does that pose a problem where porting those games to the CV2 is concerned? In other words, are the SCC and YM2151 very different (and perhaps even incompatible) sound chips? Just curious.

[opcode]

Now that my source for chips has been verified, I am going to get the YM2151 DAC (YM3012) and the CV PSG next, 100 each. That gives us the complete sound chipset. Then after the Chinese new year we can go for the video stuff...

While we're on the subject of sound chips, I'd like to reissue my question: Certain MSX games make use of the SCC, (mostly Konami games) so does that pose a problem where porting those games to the CV2 is concerned? In other words, are the SCC and YM2151 very different (and perhaps even incompatible) sound chips? Just curious.

 

Yep, completely different chips. SCC is like PSG, but you can enter a 32 sampling points waveform for each channel. And it has 5 channels.

YM2151 is... well, FM. And have 8 channels. And of course YM2151 sounds much better than SCC.

 

Now when we talk about the CV2 and MSX1 ports... well, things start to get a bit nebulous in my mind. What I see is that we will have this new platform and we will have all sort of different interests when it comes to new games. I think (and hope) we will see the whole spectrum of options being used, from games made for the CV1 but that can offer a few improvements when running on the CV2, to games created exclusively for the CV2 using all the system's capabilities.

While I am open to any combination, I think some make more sense than others depending on the game. So for MSX1 games, most of them are little known titles for the CV audience, and I think some made sense for the CV1, because they were generally superior to the games already available for the system. Now if you ask me if I would release Knightmare as it is on the CV2, I would probably say "no". That would be like releasing a SG1000 game for the MegaDrive. It is ok if done in the hobbyist level (for free), but IMHO not a reasonable choice for a commercial product (and again, we are talking about a CV2 exclusive game here, as Knightmare cannot run on the regular CV). So while I still believe the game plays great as it is, the graphics and sound would need a complete rework to make it a product that makes sense on the CV2. By that logic, if SCC can be easily ported to FM becomes irrelevant, as the game would need to be redone anyway. You see, Gradius 2 would look unbelievable on the original CV, but on the CV2 it would look totally out of place, with all the flickering and choppy scroll, that isn’t what people expect from a game for a machine that is supposed to offer 16-bits quality. So that is my opinion, and probably I will act following that logic.

The other thing is about MSX2 ports. The truth is, and I am going to say that as a long time MSX user, very little MSX2 games are worth playing today. And that is because the MSX2 started to gain momentum during the late 80s, when the home computer market in Japan was all about a single genre, RPGs. And RPGs just don't age that well if you ask me. So we are left with a few Konami games (the Metal Gears and Space Manbow), a few Compile games (the Aleste games mostly), and that is pretty much it... So again MSX2 ports are mostly irrelevant when we think about the CV2. I would port some of them, but I would prefer to remake them instead of doing a direct port.

[Pixelboy]

While I am open to any combination, I think some make more sense than others depending on the game. So for MSX1 games, most of them are little known titles for the CV audience, and I think some made sense for the CV1, because they were generally superior to the games already available for the system. Now if you ask me if I would release Knightmare as it is on the CV2, I would probably say "no". That would be like releasing a SG1000 game for the MegaDrive. It is ok if done in the hobbyist level (for free), but IMHO not a reasonable choice for a commercial product (and again, we are talking about a CV2 exclusive game here, as Knightmare cannot run on the regular CV). So while I still believe the game plays great as it is, the graphics and sound would need a complete rework to make it a product that makes sense on the CV2. By that logic, if SCC can be easily ported to FM becomes irrelevant, as the game would need to be redone anyway. You see, Gradius 2 would look unbelievable on the original CV, but on the CV2 it would look totally out of place, with all the flickering and choppy scroll, that isn’t what people expect from a game for a machine that is supposed to offer 16-bits quality. So that is my opinion, and probably I will act following that logic.

Don't you think you're painting yourself into a corner needlessly by taking that kind of stance? A lot of people who will buy the CV2 will do it to replace their aging ColecoVision consoles. Do you really believe that all these people care about the quality of the graphics and sounds on the CV2, to the point where they will refrain from buying games like Knightmare and Goonies just because the graphics in those games are suddently "outdated"? If you really think that, Eduardo, then you don't understand your own customer base. Start a poll if you don't believe me: If you release games like Knightmare and Goonies in their current form for the CV2, people will gladly buy them, even if they don't take advantage of the hardware as much as they could.

 

Of course, for new games like Castlevania Redux and certain specific titles like Donkey Kong Arcade and Arkanoid, I can certainly encourage you to push the CV2's envelope, if only to demonstrate the true power of the machine, but you shouldn't turn your nose up on the work you've already done.

[opcode]

While I am open to any combination, I think some make more sense than others depending on the game. So for MSX1 games, most of them are little known titles for the CV audience, and I think some made sense for the CV1, because they were generally superior to the games already available for the system. Now if you ask me if I would release Knightmare as it is on the CV2, I would probably say "no". That would be like releasing a SG1000 game for the MegaDrive. It is ok if done in the hobbyist level (for free), but IMHO not a reasonable choice for a commercial product (and again, we are talking about a CV2 exclusive game here, as Knightmare cannot run on the regular CV). So while I still believe the game plays great as it is, the graphics and sound would need a complete rework to make it a product that makes sense on the CV2. By that logic, if SCC can be easily ported to FM becomes irrelevant, as the game would need to be redone anyway. You see, Gradius 2 would look unbelievable on the original CV, but on the CV2 it would look totally out of place, with all the flickering and choppy scroll, that isn’t what people expect from a game for a machine that is supposed to offer 16-bits quality. So that is my opinion, and probably I will act following that logic.

Don't you think you're painting yourself into a corner needlessly by taking that kind of stance? A lot of people who will buy the CV2 will do it to replace their aging ColecoVision consoles. Do you really believe that all these people care about the quality of the graphics and sounds on the CV2, to the point where they will refrain from buying games like Knightmare and Goonies just because the graphics in those games are suddently "outdated"? If you really think that, Eduardo, then you don't understand your own customer base. Start a poll if you don't believe me: If you release games like Knightmare and Goonies in their current form for the CV2, people will gladly buy them, even if they don't take advantage of the hardware as much as they could.

 

Of course, for new games like Castlevania Redux and certain specific titles like Donkey Kong Arcade and Arkanoid, I can certainly encourage you to push the CV2's envelope, if only to demonstrate the true power of the machine, but you shouldn't turn your nose up on the work you've already done.

 

I think the CV2 creates a whole slew of new "problems"..

Please don't misinterpret what I said. What I said was that if I am releasing a CV2 exclusive (and Goonies and Knightmare need to be exclusives, as they cannot run on the CV1 hardware for lack of memory), then I think it makes more sense to have that game using as much as the CV2 features as possible.

That is what I would expect as a consumer. I am proud of the MSX1 games I released for the CV1, and I am sure there are more games that can be ported without the need of any kind of expansion, like the games we are actually porting now. But that is CV1, and for a CV1 a MSX game is usually above average.

Now you see, cartridges aren't cheap. I see Youki saying that games should be less expensive, and I agree. However games are expensive to manufacture, I sell my games as cheap as I can, you know that, but we have our costs. Printing costs a lot, you also know that. So there isn't much I can do right now to reduce the $35~$40 I usually ask for my games. What I can do is to try to increase the values of the product, so that consumers get something worth their money. There is nothing I can do about printing, but I can try to compensate that putting more work on my games. That is what I mean...

So again, different games might require different approaches. Pre-crash arcade games I would offer in two versions (in the same cartridge), one using CV1 sound and graphics, for the nostalgia of the thing, other with proper CV2 sound and graphics, for the truer arcade experience. You can play the version that best suit your likings or mood. On the other hand, post-crash arcade games might not be worth the trouble porting with CV1 graphics, as the result would be disappointing. For MSX1 ports, I think the presentation of the game becomes irrelevant, as usually people aren't familiar with the original material, so while I would even include the original version, I think a complete makeover would be far more interesting.

[opcode]

Speaking of what, I wonder what would be a great CV2 showcase game...

[VectorGamer]

Speaking of what, I wonder what would be a great CV2 showcase game...

 

Sinistar

[youki]

For MSX1 ports, I think the presentation of the game becomes irrelevant, as usually people aren't familiar with the original material, so while I would even include the original version, I think a complete makeover would be far more interesting.

 

Totally agree. As i said i won't buy direct MSX port as i own MSXs and i can find MSX cartridges easly for 10-20 USD .(being in Europe, it is more easy)

 

But Remake exploiting the CV2 , i think i will. Typically a KnightMare with better graphics and smooth scrolling i'd buy.

 

Speaking of what, I wonder what would be a great CV2 showcase game...

 

Strider or Castelvania could be good.

[cimerians]

Speaking of what, I wonder what would be a great CV2 showcase game...

 

Tron would be so cool since there is a new movie in the works and I loved the arcade game. Hmmm, there are so many games to pick from to redo.

 

You have some good titles already like Pac-Man collection! You could just pick one of those.

[VectorGamer]

Speaking of what, I wonder what would be a great CV2 showcase game...

 

Tron would be so cool since there is a new movie in the works and I loved the arcade game.

 

I agree. F Sinistar.

 

Tron: a game that has never been ported in its entirety to a home console now can be had with the ColecoVision 2 console. Simply brilliant. It doesn't get any better than that.

 

A faithful port of Tron would be a sure thing and the timing is perfect. Gamers would buy the console just to have Tron. History repeating itself: see Atari's 2600 Space Invaders release and Coleco's Donkey Kong pack-in port.

 

With Tron, everything lines up perfectly.

Edited January 20, 2010 by rmaerz

[Bill Loguidice]

A port of Tron is actually a good idea since it's never been done at home before, but beyond that I'd love to see some original games, even if it took core gameplay concepts from other games. There would be a real missed opportunity here if the only games made were conversions of games available elsewhere.

[purenergy]

Faster Harder More Challenging Q*bert on the CV2.

Would the arcade sounds be possible?

 

[Cebus Capucinis]

I think a relaunch of Pac-Man Collection would be great for a launch title....hint hint hint again

[SRGilbert]

Speaking of what, I wonder what would be a great CV2 showcase game...

 

Tron would be so cool since there is a new movie in the works and I loved the arcade game.

 

I agree. F Sinistar.

 

Tron: a game that has never been ported in its entirety to a home console now can be had with the ColecoVision 2 console. Simply brilliant. It doesn't get any better than that.

 

A faithful port of Tron would be a sure thing and the timing is perfect. Gamers would buy the console just to have Tron. History repeating itself: see Atari's 2600 Space Invaders release and Coleco's Donkey Kong pack-in port.

 

With Tron, everything lines up perfectly.

 

Hope you are planning on packing in a special controller too, would be pretty tough to replicate the Tron experience with the regular CV controller.

 

Maybe something like this:

[VectorGamer]

Speaking of what, I wonder what would be a great CV2 showcase game...

 

Tron would be so cool since there is a new movie in the works and I loved the arcade game.

 

I agree. F Sinistar.

 

Tron: a game that has never been ported in its entirety to a home console now can be had with the ColecoVision 2 console. Simply brilliant. It doesn't get any better than that.

 

A faithful port of Tron would be a sure thing and the timing is perfect. Gamers would buy the console just to have Tron. History repeating itself: see Atari's 2600 Space Invaders release and Coleco's Donkey Kong pack-in port.

 

With Tron, everything lines up perfectly.

 

Hope you are planning on packing in a special controller too, would be pretty tough to replicate the Tron experience with the regular CV controller.

 

Maybe something like this:

 

Maybe what you could do is use the second controller port for a spinner. Two player mode can just share controllers.

 

Make the spinner such that it can be used as a standalone controller with keypad and fire buttons for use with Arkanoid and other paddle games. With that, it would be a cool project down the road for someone to port a whole bunch of paddle games in one cart including Breakout, Clowns, Avalanche, Gee Bee, Bomb Bee, Cutie Q etc...

 

I do see a problem with this setup as MCP Cone requires spinner, joystick and fire button simultaneously. A two controller setup that is mediocre could potentially be disastrous. Add to that is the increase in cost.

 

Another title to consider then is Galaga.

 

With either, you are using the same formula CV did in '82: taking a hugely popular title in Donkey Kong and packing it in with the console.

 

Re: Pac-Man Collection: I know this would be attractive for those that do not yet have PMC. But, I picked up a copy with a production run that was done last summer. Perhaps Eduardo could sub out subsequent production runs.

 

Maybe what could be done is include a discount coupon with the CV2 for any future Opcode game purchase. For example, set an expiration date and make it something like a minimum of %10 off your total purchase from Opcode's WWW site.

 

At the same time, offer a limited edition box set of the Opcode library to coincide with the launch of the CV2. Maybe nothing more than a sealed box containing all the boxed games of the Opcode library. Or a sealed box with just the carts and manuals. Number them and offer at a discount price so that the discount coupon gets better bang for the buck.

 

Establish relationships with vendors like GoodDealGames and Stone Age Gamer to distribute the Opcode product line. Also, vendors to sell the Opcode product line at conventions. Advertise in Classic Video Gamer, Video Game Trader et al.

 

Imagine that - creating more revenue for Opcode.

 

Now, before I get flamed - this is just a brainstorm. And I realize this is just a hobby and with these suggestions you know this is more than what one person can handle. I'm just envisioning that this project could be a lot bigger than we realize. Bigger than the big 3? Hell no - we're talking about the niche that is classic gaming. I think it is bigger than results of the interest survey that was conducted a while back by Eduardo. I have a hunch that interest will increase closer to product completion when the details have been finalized.

 

Either that or I am hopelessly optimistic.

[Sandman686]

Speaking of what, I wonder what would be a great CV2 showcase game...

 

Tron would be so cool since there is a new movie in the works and I loved the arcade game.

 

I agree. F Sinistar.

 

Tron: a game that has never been ported in its entirety to a home console now can be had with the ColecoVision 2 console. Simply brilliant. It doesn't get any better than that.

 

A faithful port of Tron would be a sure thing and the timing is perfect. Gamers would buy the console just to have Tron. History repeating itself: see Atari's 2600 Space Invaders release and Coleco's Donkey Kong pack-in port.

 

With Tron, everything lines up perfectly.

 

Hope you are planning on packing in a special controller too, would be pretty tough to replicate the Tron experience with the regular CV controller.

 

Maybe something like this:

 

Maybe what you could do is use the second controller port for a spinner. Two player mode can just share controllers.

 

Make the spinner such that it can be used as a standalone controller with keypad and fire buttons for use with Arkanoid and other paddle games. With that, it would be a cool project down the road for someone to port a whole bunch of paddle games in one cart including Breakout, Clowns, Avalanche, Gee Bee, Bomb Bee, Cutie Q etc...

 

I do see a problem with this setup as MCP Cone requires spinner, joystick and fire button simultaneously. A two controller setup that is mediocre could potentially be disastrous. Add to that is the increase in cost.

 

Another title to consider then is Galaga.

 

With either, you are using the same formula CV did in '82: taking a hugely popular title in Donkey Kong and packing it in with the console.

 

Re: Pac-Man Collection: I know this would be attractive for those that do not yet have PMC. But, I picked up a copy with a production run that was done last summer. Perhaps Eduardo could sub out subsequent production runs.

 

Maybe what could be done is include a discount coupon with the CV2 for any future Opcode game purchase. For example, set an expiration date and make it something like a minimum of %10 off your total purchase from Opcode's WWW site.

 

At the same time, offer a limited edition box set of the Opcode library to coincide with the launch of the CV2. Maybe nothing more than a sealed box containing all the boxed games of the Opcode library. Or a sealed box with just the carts and manuals. Number them and offer at a discount price so that the discount coupon gets better bang for the buck.

 

Establish relationships with vendors like GoodDealGames and Stone Age Gamer to distribute the Opcode product line. Also, vendors to sell the Opcode product line at conventions. Advertise in Classic Video Gamer, Video Game Trader et al.

 

Imagine that - creating more revenue for Opcode.

 

Now, before I get flamed - this is just a brainstorm. And I realize this is just a hobby and with these suggestions you know this is more than what one person can handle. I'm just envisioning that this project could be a lot bigger than we realize. Bigger than the big 3? Hell no - we're talking about the niche that is classic gaming. I think it is bigger than results of the interest survey that was conducted a while back by Eduardo. I have a hunch that interest will increase closer to product completion when the details have been finalized.

 

Either that or I am hopelessly optimistic.

 

 

I just finished reading this thread. I feel delirious at this point. A CV2, WOW!! count me in. I started a search looking for info on the Pac-Man Collection from Opcode and I tripped onto this. I'm still processing all this info. Well, I'll keep a tab on this thread or any info on the CV2 going forward. Keeping this design simple and powerful at the same time and bagging the rights to the name is brilliant. I'll start passing the word around. Need to start spreading the word if you are to attain sales numbers in the thousands.

[cimerians]

I just told my girlfriends best friend and now full time mom. She had the original and still used it for her kids until she had a flood problem destroy the unit and most of the games a few years ago. She said she wanted the new system when it comes out and was really excited that people still played it etc etc

 

So I'll be ordering two.

[lucifershalo]

I vaguely followed the different opcode projects but didnt know about the CV2 until today and all I can say is wow

I am impressed

first a question: if you had to compare the CV2 to another machine, technologically speaking, which would it be?

to try to imagine what to expect

 

and a comment: the CV2 will be...a second generation Colecovision so the games should be "Coleco-like"

there are no point in making Nes or Genesis style games

-so yes super improved versions of existing CV games could be good

-or even existing games with new levels

-port of MSX games

-port of 80s arcade games, not yet ported (Tron!!)

-original games? it has to keep the spirit

[opcode]

I vaguely followed the different opcode projects but didnt know about the CV2 until today and all I can say is wow

I am impressed

first a question: if you had to compare the CV2 to another machine, technologically speaking, which would it be?

to try to imagine what to expect

 

and a comment: the CV2 will be...a second generation Colecovision so the games should be "Coleco-like"

there are no point in making Nes or Genesis style games

-so yes super improved versions of existing CV games could be good

-or even existing games with new levels

-port of MSX games

-port of 80s arcade games, not yet ported (Tron!!)

-original games? it has to keep the spirit

 

I would say it is somewhere in between the Genesis and the SNES both graphic, sound and CPU wise. Graphic and sound should be better than Genesis, but not as good as SNES in most cases, CPU should be about same level as SNES, not as good as the Genesis 68K.

[lucifershalo]

wow, that sounds pretty good

will be "difficult" to keep the Colecovision spirit for the CV2 games

[opcode]

wow, that sounds pretty good

will be "difficult" to keep the Colecovision spirit for the CV2 games

 

I believe it would a matter of approaching the CV2 with fresh eyes and open mind. The thing about the CV spirit isn't graphics or sound, but the type of games being produced during the early 80s. So if we can extrapolate the style from that era (and by that I mean not just the CV, but also other consoles and computers from the time) but upgrading the rest, we could have some nice games. I think it is going to be a very interesting experiment.

That is what I was talking about the other day about RPG. Usually when you think of 16-bits era RPGs you think of JRPGs (Japanese RPGs). Now if we free our minds of that and try to extrapolate what we had in the early 80s but with much better graphics/sound, more variety, etc, we could produce something interesting. Not trivial I know, but an interesting challenge.

[lucifershalo]

yes, pretty exciting project

 

without knowing about the CV2 then,

I thought last week what could be 80s games for atari or coleco on more powerful machines

[+cmart604]

Speaking of what, I wonder what would be a great CV2 showcase game...

 

Tron would be so cool since there is a new movie in the works and I loved the arcade game.

 

I agree. F Sinistar.

 

Tron: a game that has never been ported in its entirety to a home console now can be had with the ColecoVision 2 console. Simply brilliant. It doesn't get any better than that.

 

A faithful port of Tron would be a sure thing and the timing is perfect. Gamers would buy the console just to have Tron. History repeating itself: see Atari's 2600 Space Invaders release and Coleco's Donkey Kong pack-in port.

 

With Tron, everything lines up perfectly.

 

Tron would be my first choice

[128Kgames]

Ok, we have a thread to discuss controller options for the CV2 already, but there are some technical issues that I would like to discuss here.

First, here is what we have agreed so far:

 

- Console should cost $150 or less

- It should be compatible with as many original CV games as possible, preferably 95% or more

- It doesn't need to be compatible with the existing expansion modules, like Atari module e ADAM module

- It should come with "modern" A/V outputs, like composite video, S-video and RGB, and a modern power supply

 

Anything missing from my list?

 

HDMI. You should have an HDMI connection on the CV2.

[Pixelboy]

You know what would be fun? To have the trackball and four buttons of the Roller Controller integrated into the CV2 console. Not only would all games made for the Roller Controller and steering wheel module work with the CV2 without having to plug in those bulky (and failure-prone) pieces of hardware, but the BIOS GUI interface could be mouse-driven too, and you wouldn't need to have a joystick plugged in the console to use the GUI.

 

But I know it would likely add something like 30% to the final price of the console, so it's unlikely to become reality. Still, if I could, I'd run the idea by André just to see what he'd have to say about it, especially where trackball solutions are concerned. A mini-trackball made of rubber, like the ones found in non-optical mice could do the trick...

Edited February 4, 2010 by Pixelboy