The official "ColecoVision 2" thread

[opcode]

Ok, had another follow up with Ricardo today. Looks like the CV2 is going to be more than I could have wished for. Very powerful....

[+Gemintronic]

Ok, had another follow up with Ricardo today. Looks like the CV2 is going to be more than I could have wished for. Very powerful....

 

Any other thoughts on a higher level language for homebrew? Doesn't need to be BASIC. Could even be a uber macro'ed assembler in disguise

[opcode]

Any other thoughts on a higher level language for homebrew? Doesn't need to be BASIC. Could even be a uber macro'ed assembler in disguise

 

Well, C is already available, you know.

[opcode]

Had another 3 hours chatting with Ricardo. Specs are more or less set in stone now. By Ricardo suggestion, the CV2 is a 16-bit grade machine now. In the end I agreed with his specs, as it is unlike that Coleco would have followed the CV with another 8-bit grade console. Assuming a 5 years console cycle, the successor of the CV would have been released in 1987, perhaps 1988. That puts it roughly within the same time frame as the PC Engine/MegaDrive (I mean, Turbografx/Genesis), so yeah, as long as it fits the budget I don't see a problem.

So that you guys know, Ricardo is very familiar with the chipset we have selected, as he has used all of them in his hobby/commercial projects before. That is why we are expecting this thing will be done in the next couple of years.

[Tighe]

Had another 3 hours chatting with Ricardo. Specs are more or less set in stone now. By Ricardo suggestion, the CV2 is a 16-bit grade machine now. In the end I agreed with his specs, as it is unlike that Coleco would have followed the CV with another 8-bit grade console. Assuming a 5 years console cycle, the successor of the CV would have been released in 1987, perhaps 1988. That puts it roughly within the same time frame as the PC Engine/MegaDrive (I mean, Turbografx/Genesis), so yeah, as long as it fits the budget I don't see a problem.

So that you guys know, Ricardo is very familiar with the chipset we have selected, as he has used all of them in his hobby/commercial projects before. That is why we are expecting this thing will be done in the next couple of years.

 

So this will be a lot like the Genesis/Mega Drive, in that it had a Z80 along with its 16 bit processor (68000). What will be the 16 bit processor in the CV2?

[+Gemintronic]

I'm wondering about the 16-bit CPU myself. If it's a 68k then Enhanced 68k BASIC could be modified for game making goodness. Not the interactive shell part mind you.

http://mycorner.no-i...asic/index.html

[tomjscott]

Had another 3 hours chatting with Ricardo. Specs are more or less set in stone now. By Ricardo suggestion, the CV2 is a 16-bit grade machine now. In the end I agreed with his specs, as it is unlike that Coleco would have followed the CV with another 8-bit grade console. Assuming a 5 years console cycle, the successor of the CV would have been released in 1987, perhaps 1988. That puts it roughly within the same time frame as the PC Engine/MegaDrive (I mean, Turbografx/Genesis), so yeah, as long as it fits the budget I don't see a problem.

So that you guys know, Ricardo is very familiar with the chipset we have selected, as he has used all of them in his hobby/commercial projects before. That is why we are expecting this thing will be done in the next couple of years.

Awesome news. I look forward to learning more about this exciting new system.

[opcode]

So this will be a lot like the Genesis/Mega Drive, in that it had a Z80 along with its 16 bit processor (68000). What will be the 16 bit processor in the CV2?

 

Actually we are keeping a Z80, albeit at 14MHz (switchable by software). That should give us a performance that is comparable with the PC Engine/Genesis/SNES, still using the familiar Z80 CPU.

However Ricardo suggested going with 16-bits caliber video and audio processing units. V9990 for video, and OPL4 for audio. That should give us an interesting symmetry to the original CV, where Texas supplied the chipset then, and now it is almost all Yamaha.

 

The truth is that my first choice for audio in a machine like this would be the YM2151, as it is more representative of the late 80s. However I also wanted some PCM audio for drums and voices. We could use one of the Oki chips for that, but that would increase the chip count, and the Oki chips were made with ROM in mind (for the samples), perfect for arcade games, not for a home console.

I also considered the Y8950 and OPLNA, which offer both FM and ADPCM, but are very hard to find these today.

So Ricardo suggested OPL4, which he has implemented before and is easier to get. At first I thought it was kind of overkill, but on the other hand it fits the requirements, it has FM and PCM in a single chip.

 

So V9990 is very close to the Genesis VDP, which was also created by Yamaha. And OPL4, well OPL4 in its best sounds like this, courtesy of Wolf, from Pac-Man Collection title screen fame:

 

(stars around 0:25)

(stars around 1:00)

[Pixelboy]

The specs are impressive for sure, but the possibilities leave me somewhat puzzled. It almost sounds like the CV2 is going to compete with the Ouya, at least indirectly.

[+Gemintronic]

So V9990 is very close to the Genesis VDP

 

Does that mean it has a tile buffer like the Genesis instead of bitmapped?

[+grips03]

Actually we are keeping a Z80, albeit at 14MHz (switchable by software). That should give us a performance that is comparable with the PC Engine/Genesis/SNES, still using the familiar Z80 CPU.

However Ricardo suggested going with 16-bits caliber video and audio processing units. V9990 for video, and OPL4 for audio. That should give us an interesting symmetry to the original CV, where Texas supplied the chipset then, and now it is almost all Yamaha.

 

The truth is that my first choice for audio in a machine like this would be the YM2151, as it is more representative of the late 80s. However I also wanted some PCM audio for drums and voices. We could use one of the Oki chips for that, but that would increase the chip count, and the Oki chips were made with ROM in mind (for the samples), perfect for arcade games, not for a home console.

I also considered the Y8950 and OPLNA, which offer both FM and ADPCM, but are very hard to find these today.

So Ricardo suggested OPL4, which he has implemented before and is easier to get. At first I thought it was kind of overkill, but on the other hand it fits the requirements, it has FM and PCM in a single chip.

 

So V9990 is very close to the Genesis VDP, which was also created by Yamaha. And OPL4, well OPL4 in its best sounds like this, courtesy of Wolf, from Pac-Man Collection title screen fame:

 

 

with all the enhancements would it still be backwards compatible with CV and CV+SGM?

Edited March 26, 2013 by grips03

[Tighe]

My old PC I built a long time ago I have a Yamaha OPL sound card in it. I think that was a OPL2 pretty sweet that this will have a chip that is even more powerful!

 

Edit:

What is the possibility of adding in a YRW801-M for extra samples and YSS225 for effects?

Edited March 26, 2013 by Tighe

[opcode]

Does that mean it has a tile buffer like the Genesis instead of bitmapped?

 

Correct. It has two tile modes: 256x212 with 2 independent background layers, and 512x212 with a single layer. 125 sprites on screen, 16 in the same scanline, 16x16 sprites. All 4 bits per pixel. Then it has a number of bitmap modes, a super fast blitter, 32k colors (simultaneously in some modes). Fun chip. The custom video encoder will control layer priority between V9990 and V9958 and will superimpose both if programmed to do so (or output just one of them). That means up to 3 tile layers, one being the same as the CV graphics II tile layer (from the V9958). V9990 is pretty fast with vector graphics too...

 

 

 

What is the possibility of adding in a YRW801-M for extra samples and YSS225 for effects?

 

YRW801 is included.

[opcode]

Two little videos showing the V9990 in action:

 

This one was made in BASIC, actually demo starts at around 1:30 (btw, the V9990 implementation you see in this video was designed by Ricardo himself, I believe he also coded the BASIC program for the demo)

 

And this is a homebrew game someone started developing for the V9990 + OPL4, so it should be representative of the CV2 (though the game itself is rather bland and generic).

[HDTV1080P]

That is awesome that the ColecoVision II is going to be a 16 bit videogame system that will play all or most of the original 8 bit ColecoVision games and 8 bit OpCode supergame module games. I would be very interested in buying exclusive 16 bit videogames that were designed exclusively for the ColecoVision II. Hopefully if several thousand ColecoVision II’s are sold we might see more programmers make videogames for the new system. Also perhaps a PC emulator one day might be made to emulate ColecoVision II games on a Windows PC.Thanks for all the hardwork Opcode and Ricardo. I will most likely purchase one or more of these ColecoVision II systems when it is released in a few years.

 

Now I am wondering if we will see a ColecoVision III 32 bit system in 10 years or if the ColecoVision II 16 bit system will be the last ColecoVision compatible system (only time will tell).

Edited March 27, 2013 by HDTV1080P

[NIAD]

Sounds like a major undertaking will have to be done in order to test for any compatibility issues with ALL the currently available ColecoVision games once this incredible project is far enough along. I'll nominate Joe B. and Northcoastgamer... the CV HSC's current top dogs!

Edited March 27, 2013 by NIAD

[opcode]

That is awesome that the ColecoVision II is going to be a 16 bit videogame system that will play all or most of the original 8 bit ColecoVision games and 8 bit OpCode supergame module games. I would be very interested in buying exclusive 16 bit videogames that were designed exclusively for the ColecoVision II. Hopefully if several thousand ColecoVision II’s are sold we might see more programmers make videogames for the new system. Also perhaps a PC emulator one day might be made to emulate ColecoVision II games on a Windows PC.Thanks for all the hardwork Opcode and Ricardo. I will most likely purchase one or more of these ColecoVision II systems when it is released in a few years.

 

Now I am wondering if we will see a ColecoVision III 32 bit system in 10 years or if the ColecoVision II 16 bit system will be the last ColecoVision compatible system (only time will tell).

 

The only problem is that I don't think we could be able to produce thousands of CV2 consoles, even if the demand was there. Not enough NOS chips out there.

[HDTV1080P]

The only problem is that I don't think we could be able to produce thousands of CV2 consoles, even if the demand was there. Not enough NOS chips out there.

 

So the ColecoVision II might be a limited run of 500 or a 1,000 since there is not enough NOS chips available (NOS chips must be out of production)? This is one of the reasons long time ago I suggested that the ColecoVision II use a modern motherboard PC with a linux operating system. If the emulation was very good and cosmetically the ColecoVision II looked like a videogame system the majority of consumers would not care if it were a PC with cartridge port emulation. Only if someone took the videogame system apart would they be able to tell it was a PC with Linux emulation.

Edited March 27, 2013 by HDTV1080P

[opcode]

Sounds like a major undertaking will have to be done in order to test for any compatibility issues with ALL the currently available ColecoVision games once this incredible project is far enough along. I'll nominate Joe B. and Northcoastgamer... the CV HSC's current top dogs!

 

Who is Northcoastgamer? And how about yourself?

 

Anyways, we still have a long way to go.

 

BTW, I was discussing about ADAM compatibility with Ricardo yesterday. He seemed interested in making the CV2 compatible with the EM #3. The big question was, is that worth the trouble? People don't seem to care much about the ADAM as a computer, most are just interested in the games.

 

Another idea we discussed, in case we need to cut stuff to keep the price in the target range, is to make some stuff optional, like the SD card and development part. The reason being a lot of people already have the Atarimax SD cartridge. The expansions would be internal to the console, so no modules hanging out or anything.

[opcode]

So the ColecoVision II might be a limited run of 500 or a 1,000 since there is not enough NOS chips available (NOS chips must be out of production)? This is one of the reasons long time ago I suggested that the ColecoVision II use a modern motherboard PC with a linux operating system. If the emulation was very good and cosmetically the ColecoVision II looked like a videogame system the majority of consumers would not care if it were a PC with cartridge port emulation. Only if someone took the videogame system apart would they be able to tell it was a PC with Linux emulation.

 

We all would know, since you suggest it here.

Seriously, I already have one of those, mine is made by Dell and runs BlueMSX. And it has HDMI!

[HDTV1080P]

Opcode, I would purchase 2 or 3 of the ColecoVision II systems if it had the front expansion module interface. Then I could use the Expansion module #1 Atari 2600 adapter and expansion module #3 Adam computer with component video output. I wish the ColecoVision II had an analog SVGA or VGA output also.

 

So how much would the expansion module interface add to the cost of the ColecoVision II? I believe Coleco would have kept the expansion module interface on any future videogames system. Also if the Adam works with the ColecoVision II then we would not need a PS/2 keyboard interface, however a PS/2 keyboard interface would be ideal for future ColecoVision II exclusive games.

Edited March 27, 2013 by HDTV1080P

[Arjak]

Holy crap! This is going to be awesome! I'll definitely get one of these when they're done! Those videos have sold it for me.

[VectorGamer]

What about controllers? Will there be brand new controllers shipping with the system and if so how will they be different from the stock CV controllers?

[tomjscott]

What about controllers? Will there be brand new controllers shipping with the system and if so how will they be different from the stock CV controllers?

 

That's a very good question. As much as I like the Colecovision, the controllers are terrible. They are difficult to hold and not very comfortable.

[+nanochess]

A way to lower prices, reduce total number of chips and getting rid of scarce chips is to use an FPGA, it could contain processor (a Z80 and even a 16 bits proc), video chip (there are 9958 cores), sound chips (PSG, FM and more), decoders and peripherals.

 

The ROM and RAM would be external. The source for the One Chip MSX is readily available.

 

Besides I've researched a little the topic and the FPGA could generate DVI video (doesn't require royalties and there is enough info in Internet) that can be converted to HDMI using a common cable available almost everywhere.