VectorGamer Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 That's a very good question. As much as I like the Colecovision, the controllers are terrible. They are difficult to hold and not very comfortable. Not as bad as those POS Intellivision controllers! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manoau2002 Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 The specs are impressive for sure, but the possibilities leave me somewhat puzzled. It almost sounds like the CV2 is going to compete with the Ouya, at least indirectly. There seems to two different lines of thought on this project some of us are looking for a colecovision clone and others are looking for an improvement over the original like a super nintendo to a nintendo. Personally my preference would be a clone system. I have pre ordered an ouya console myself to play "new style" games with. What i am looking for in a new colecovision is something that supports the original and homebrew games. Has the ability to support original colecovision controllers and supports the expansion module. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomjscott Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 I prefer the current direction this project is taking. It satisfies backward compatibility with the original CV and the SGM plus has better graphics and sound for future games. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIAD Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Who is Northcoastgamer? And how about yourself? Northcoastgamer is the current point leader of the CV HSC. I guess that I would be a good candidate to beta test the CV II seeing as I am only missing 4 original titles and probably around 6 or so Homebrews. It would also be best to test with original cartridges and not via one of the available MultiCarts. I just find it easier to push work off on other people as I get older, although playing CV games should never be considered work. BTW, I was discussing about ADAM compatibility with Ricardo yesterday. He seemed interested in making the CV2 compatible with the EM #3. The big question was, is that worth the trouble? People don't seem to care much about the ADAM as a computer, most are just interested in the games. As far as I can tell, games are the driving force for most interest in any retro-computer... be it whatever model of Apple, Commodore, Atari, Tandy, TI, MSX, etc., etc. With that being said, a quick look through my collection renders a total of 18 Coleco made titles and roughly 35 Homebrew titles available for the ADAM that would BE OF INTEREST to gamers. Of course there is a lot more available, but I am just picking the cream of the crop. I don't think an Expansion Bus and/or ADAM compatibility is worth the added expense, but then again, I could be wrong. However, I still think a new ADAM Expansion for the current ColecoVision could generate enough interest to make it a viable endeavor. Basically take the Exp. Mod. #3 ADAM Logic Board and strip away all the unnecessary items like the 3 expansion slots, Digital Data Drives, etc. and pack it into a case that should be about the size of Coleco's unreleased SGM, but with an SD Drive for running Disk Images and possibly DDP Images. It would be a heck of a lot smaller footprint than buying a real ADAM and then all one would need is the ADAM Keyboard. There was a lot of interest generated when Else first announced his ADAMnet SD Drive and I'm sure most of those that were interested are still around and probably haven't bought a real ADAM... although there have been a lot of ADAM systems changing hands on eBay of late. Well, it would be cool to see something along these lines or even just an ADAMnet SD Drive one day. Another idea we discussed, in case we need to cut stuff to keep the price in the target range, is to make some stuff optional, like the SD card and development part. The reason being a lot of people already have the Atarimax SD cartridge. The expansions would be internal to the console, so no modules hanging out or anything. Sounds like a great idea to make separate expansions for the CV 2 and that way you are not removing a feature completely from consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordiway Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 I prefer the current direction this project is taking. It satisfies backward compatibility with the original CV and the SGM plus has better graphics and sound for future games. I agree I think its a great idea, what do you think Coleco would have called it in 1986 if it had came out. "Super Colecovision", "Ultra Colecovision"? Would it be cost effective to rob the genesis or another system for parts to make the new colecovision? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nateo Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 I agree I think its a great idea, what do you think Coleco would have called it in 1986 if it had came out. "Super Colecovision", "Ultra Colecovision"? Would it be cost effective to rob the genesis or another system for parts to make the new colecovision? Maybe the Coleco SuperVision? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phattyboombatty Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 I think Super ColecoVision almost for certain would've been thunk-up by Coleco Marketing. But I like "ColecoVision MAX" (a play on ADAM), "Super Coleco Entertainment System", "Super Coleco" (for short), and "ColecoVision Nexxt" as well. Save "ColecoVision Extreme" and "ColecoVision Ultra" for later incarnations. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhomaios Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 Correct, I think the real thing would be sure everyone wants the new product but the real choice will come when your colecovision breaks, are you going to bother to spend a lot of money fixing it or getting a new one and fixing it if yours is broken beyond repair, or are you going to just buy the new CVII so that everything is modern and should not be breaking down on you. Unfortunately if this product comes out it could mean the end of fixing colecovisions and they will slowly grow extinct. Not necessarily...I won't give up my original CV just because I get a CV2. I'm sure most collectors of the machine will feel the same way. It will be nice, however, not to have to depend on 30-year-old hardware which may eventually become unrepairable. Not everyone may opt to buy a CV2, as well, although like the SGM, I'm sure they will sell quickly. Is it such a bad thing? If this can play CV and CV2 (or Super CV, or whatever else it will be called, though personally something more exciting and less similar to existing consoles [so no 2, no Super, no Mega, no 16 {since it will be 16 bit}]) games, why wouldn't we drop the old for the new? So long as it has perfect compatibility, there won't be a reason for the old CV. Now, if compatibility isn't perfect, then I cannot imagine the CV ever going away. This is why I have a Power Base Converter for my Genesis, but I have a PlayStation and a PS2 still. The specs are impressive for sure, but the possibilities leave me somewhat puzzled. It almost sounds like the CV2 is going to compete with the Ouya, at least indirectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 The specs are impressive for sure, but the possibilities leave me somewhat puzzled. It almost sounds like the CV2 is going to compete with the Ouya, at least indirectly. What I implied with that comment is that in order to make the faster Z80 chip, extra sound hardware and other extra features worth it will be to release new games that take advantage of these extra features. I'm sure Opcode can port some nice MSX2 games like Metal Gear or Manbow 2, but that's a lot of work and some third-party support would be needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhomaios Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 What I implied with that comment is that in order to make the faster Z80 chip, extra sound hardware and other extra features worth it will be to release new games that take advantage of these extra features. I'm sure Opcode can port some nice MSX2 games like Metal Gear or Manbow 2, but that's a lot of work and some third-party support would be needed. I'd love to see more third-party support, heck, I'd love to see a publisher with real carts too like what AtariAge does. But I still don't see how it can compete with the Ouya, unless you mean that a port of Manbow 2 would otherwise end up there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 I'd love to see more third-party support, heck, I'd love to see a publisher with real carts too like what AtariAge does. But I still don't see how it can compete with the Ouya, unless you mean that a port of Manbow 2 would otherwise end up there. It cannot compete with the Ouya, especially considering the number of CV2 units will be limited by the availability of certain key hardware components. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retroillucid Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 (edited) Man....... ColecoVision 2 = Fan based Ok, maybe a couple hundred for the curious and/or collectors There is no way the CV2 can compete with Ouya or anything similar Heck! It will never compete with the NES clones! Colecovision fans is a VERY SMALL community Even with something like CV2, there is no way to expand the number of user I would just say, don't go too much far in term of graphics with the CV2 Don't go much more than the SGM provide Simply add some bell & whistles here and here my two cents Edited March 31, 2013 by retroillucid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retroillucid Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Just for the records The Ouya Kickstarter campaign raised $8, 500 000 I doubt we could raised anything similar to this for a Coleco product, even with a Kickstarter campaign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opcode Posted March 31, 2013 Author Share Posted March 31, 2013 I just don't get why developers would be excited about free to play. I don't even understand why consumers would be excited about playing sub par smartphone games on their TVs, and I can understand even less why developers would want to develop for such a platform and make peanuts. Unfortunately console gaming is going away in a couple of years because of greedy stupidity. Average consumer will stop buying proper consoles because they will get used to get things for free. For each Minercraft there will be a thousand developers don't making enough money to even pay their bills. With a smaller installed base, the big companies won't be able to justify the high costs of producing AAA titles for the new consoles, and will move to something else (or shutdown). And we gamers will be left with thousands and thousands of sub par minigames to choose from in our glorious smartphones. It is the crash all over again, and it has already started in case you haven't noticed. Remember the Atari days when even Quaker Oats though they could make video games. It is the same thing again, except now it is a million times worse, as everybody and their dog think than can create a game, and worse, they believe there will be enough consumers out there to play that many (mostly crap) games. And I know I will regret posting this, as it is going to derail this thread beyond repair, but oh boy, I have been enjoying this industry in a way or another for 30 years, and it sucks to see what is happening and what is coming. But my opinion about the Ouya aside, I have no idea why you guys are comparing it to the new CV. Makes no sense... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIAD Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Opcode... the CV 2 is YOUR vision, so build it as you see fit because... If you build it, we will buy! 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retroillucid Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Agree, another crash is coming But if you ask me, it's a good thing 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeymorOnion Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 The only reason I can think of to get the Ouya, is for Final Fantasy Dimensions. But then again, it hasn't been announced for that platform... But getting back on topic, I'm looking foward to the ColecoVision 2. I haven't had the privlage of owning a ColecoVision (I know, crazy, right?) and hope to be among the lucky few, to get a CV2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblenkle Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 (edited) But my opinion about the Ouya aside, I have no idea why you guys are comparing it to the new CV. Makes no sense... If it makes you feel better, I have no idea what an Ouya is...seriously... And Retroillucid, I disagree with your comment that a CV2 wouldn't draw new ColecoVision gamers...OK, maybe not brand new gamers, but if I had a CV back in the 80s (which I did) and for whatever reason got rid of it or it broke or whatever, and I found out there was going to be a new, advanced ColecoVision released in a year or two, I would snap one up in a minute. Sometime in the late 80s, I did get rid of all my ADAM and ColecoVision stuff and I regretted it for years. So much that I finally started collecting everything again. But if I hadn't been able to obtain a new ADAM and CV, I would definitely want to revisit it with a new machine even all these years later. The real problem is that beyond AtariAge and a few other sources, no one will know about the CV2. The only reason there is a limited ColecoVision audience is that many people (your "casual gamer" - closet ColecoVision-ite) don't know about places like AtariAge, or Opcode, Team Pixelboy, Collectorvision, etc...and would probably be shocked to know of the quantity and quality of games that have been released for the CV over the last few years. Edited March 31, 2013 by jblenkle 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhomaios Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 (edited) Agree, another crash is coming But if you ask me, it's a good thing Not to derail this further, but this is true, while I think opcode's is ideal but not quite accurate. I don't see a crash on the proportions stated, and I do see a real need to have an open gaming system that is *free to try*, but not necessarily 100% free to pay. I doubt very many games will do in-app purchases as their primary source of income. The alternatives are demos. Even though right now "free to win" is a successful strategy, it doesn't work, I think, in the long run, so the Ouya is pushing other strategies out there, and believe it or not, it's not just about smart phone games. I know several developers (some impersonally) and have heard of even greater things, and basically I am happy to see an open platform which encourages small indie titles, because personally I don't care for the pomp and circumstance which accompanies Call of Duty 5. Instead, I prefer the simpler format of VVVVVV. While the latter may not be possible on the CV2 (at least in its current form, but hey, maybe it can), I would much prefer it on an open platform than on a DRM-pushing service like Steam. That's my main draw to the Ouya and why I kickstarted it: DRM-free indie platformers. If it makes you feel better, I have no idea what an Ouya is...seriously... And Retroillucid, I disagree with your comment that a CV2 wouldn't draw new ColecoVision gamers...OK, maybe not brand new gamers, but if I had a CV back in the 80s (which I did) and for whatever reason got rid of it or it broke or whatever, and I found out there was going to be a new, advanced ColecoVision released in a year or two, I would snap one up in a minute. Sometime in the late 80s, I did get rid of all my ADAM and ColecoVision stuff and I regretted it for years. So much that I finally started collecting everything again. But if I hadn't been able to obtain a new ADAM and CV, I would definitely want to revisit it with a new machine even all these years later. The real problem is that beyond AtariAge and a few other sources, no one will know about the CV2. The only reason there is a limited ColecoVision audience is that many people (your "casual gamer" - closet ColecoVision-ite) don't know about places like AtariAge, or Opcode, Team Pixelboy, Collectorvision, etc...and would probably be shocked to know of the quantity and quality of games that have been released for the CV over the last few years. We just need to advertise it better. Tomorrow I'll spread word to various forums I frequent, if opcode so wishes. Edited March 31, 2013 by ὁ Ῥωμαῖος Νέος Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+pboland Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Ultimately, this is all the matters since you are putting the time and energy into it. Opcode... the CV 2 is YOUR vision, so build it as you see fit because... On a side note... What about treating your new CV2 more like (not exactly) the Atari flashback line. What I mean by that is, you are indicating that you and your partner are able to basically make a fully (or at least close to fully) backwards compatible CV with extra power to pull off 16 bit looking stuff. That's awesome! But why not see if you could get Coleco on board with the project and market it as more of an expandable plug & play. Kind of like the Atari Flashback line. The new system would come with an SD card port and possibly a mini expansion port of some kind for something like a cart port (or like the FB2, just put the solder points on the board and let people hack it in). My thought was actually the idea behind the original FB3 (not what it ended up being). Maybe Coleco could then help market the device similar to the FBs. Yes, I know Coleco was not as big as Atari, but there still is a way to market to that area. "The Ultimate 8-bit and 16-bit plug and Play". or "Games like you Remember". There are many ways to market to that crowd. By doing this you would still be creating for yourself, the ColecoVision fan base, and now an expanded fan base. Plus it can still be developed for as a newer like 16-bit platform. Just a thought. What ever you do, it will be great and thanks for everything you do for the CV community. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIAD Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 But getting back on topic, I'm looking foward to the ColecoVision 2. I haven't had the privlage of owning a ColecoVision (I know, crazy, right?) and hope to be among the lucky few, to get a CV2. Contact eColeco (www.ecoleco.com) for some CV goodness afterall he lives in the same town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opcode Posted March 31, 2013 Author Share Posted March 31, 2013 Ultimately, this is all the matters since you are putting the time and energy into it. On a side note... What about treating your new CV2 more like (not exactly) the Atari flashback line. What I mean by that is, you are indicating that you and your partner are able to basically make a fully (or at least close to fully) backwards compatible CV with extra power to pull off 16 bit looking stuff. That's awesome! But why not see if you could get Coleco on board with the project and market it as more of an expandable plug & play. Kind of like the Atari Flashback line. The new system would come with an SD card port and possibly a mini expansion port of some kind for something like a cart port (or like the FB2, just put the solder points on the board and let people hack it in). My thought was actually the idea behind the original FB3 (not what it ended up being). Maybe Coleco could then help market the device similar to the FBs. Yes, I know Coleco was not as big as Atari, but there still is a way to market to that area. "The Ultimate 8-bit and 16-bit plug and Play". or "Games like you Remember". There are many ways to market to that crowd. By doing this you would still be creating for yourself, the ColecoVision fan base, and now an expanded fan base. Plus it can still be developed for as a newer like 16-bit platform. Just a thought. What ever you do, it will be great and thanks for everything you do for the CV community. Unfortunately I don't think that is feasible for a number of reasons. First of all, Coleco Entertainment Corp (the current owner of the Coleco name) no longer hold the rights for most of ColecoVision games, as they were mostly arcade ports or movie/cartoon based. Secondly, the project as it is uses NOS parts, which are probably limited to a couple of thousands very best case scenario. To go the FB route we would need to move the project to FPGA, which doesn't quite interest me, and I don't think Ricardo would be too fond of the idea either. At this point I believe our best option would be to market the CV2 to the CV fan base, and as an option, as a retro style game development system. I would say that if we can sell this thing to 300 different people, I would be beyond happy. That would be a solid installed base to support any future game projects, that is where I have fun. Finally, as a side note, there is no guarantee that I will be able to work another deal with Coleco for reasons you are going to learn about soon... Eduardo 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Finally, as a side note, there is no guarantee that I will be able to work another deal with Coleco for reasons you are going to learn about soon... Lemme guess... They've got plans of their own? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retroillucid Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Lemme guess... They've got plans of their own? Looks more about a copyright thing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblenkle Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Finally, as a side note, there is no guarantee that I will be able to work another deal with Coleco for reasons you are going to learn about soon... Eduardo So if they don't license you for another "Coleco" product, call it OpcodeVision... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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