Games that should have used paddle controllers

[shadow460]

Grand Prix, anyone? How about Laser Blast? It's different enough from Space Invaders that a paddle controller might have made it more respectable. The laser beams might have made it work similar to Solar Storm.

 

Shootin' Gallery could have used paddles without negatively affecting gameplay, barring system requirements, that is.

 

Also, some of you are going to kick my butt, but Exocet could have been made decent if the control scheme was different. How about putting paddles to use with it and making the missiles fire straight ahead, with the knob controlling altitude?

[BigO]

I think it should be the other way around: all the paddle games should be compatible with joysticks. Breakout would be nice with a joystick.

It would technically be possible to build an adapter that would let you do this. Not simple, but possible. Parts wouldn't be hugely expensive, but unless you do it yourself the labor for such a development job would probably be prohibitive.

 

Tangentially: As a way to teach myself microcontollers, I built a replacement for the dead controller chip in a Wico trackball controller. Along the way, I made an adapter that let me play driving controller games with a joystick. Playing Indy 500 with a joystick wasn't what I'd call an upgrade.

 

 

 

[BrianC]

Gyruss: now there's another game that should have been a DC game as was stated previously. But, I don't know what Parker Bros. position would have been on requiring Atari's DC to play their game.

 

They probably just used joystick because the arcade version uses joystick.

Edited January 27, 2010 by BrianC

[bohoki]

yea i could see pole position with a paddle although they woudl have to make it autobrake on button release and i suppose have it auto shift to high at 100 and spy hunter if there woudl be some way to come up with a 2 paddle holder

 

galaxian would have been good i suppose but i'm not sure if it would be implemented in absolute positioning or just have a little dial left and hte ship would move slowly to the left a little more and it moves faster it may be kind of tricky finding center same with space invaders

 

using that method would allow for use with gyruss and tempest as well have it be a directional dial with a center

 

the driving controller was underutilized it woudl have been neat to use it with asteroids but then you need some way for thrust same could be said for river raid

 

i'm a bit of a 5200 fan and realize how similar the controller is to paddles 2 axis with 2 buttons why did an analog joystick come out?

 

its kind of crazy the driving controller was just for indy 500 and the videotouchpad was just for star raiders

 

i'm actually quite supprised they made as many paddle games as they did

[BigO]

galaxian would have been good i suppose but i'm not sure if it would be implemented in absolute positioning or just have a little dial left and hte ship would move slowly to the left a little more and it moves faster it may be kind of tricky finding center same with space invaders

 

using that method would allow for use with gyruss and tempest as well have it be a directional dial with a center

That's something that could probably be done in hardware, as I've discussed recently with a fellow AA'er.

 

Basically, you have a simple, cheap microcontroller monitoring the potentiometer angle and translating that to a pulse rate/duration of the signals that represent the left/right directional controls. Basically, it would allow slower movement of the player by simulating quick taps on a traditional digital joystick. A small "dead zone" in the middle of the pot travel would be necessary to keep from accidentally drifting.

 

To be practical, it would probably have to have some sensitivity adjustments or change the pulse rate/duration methodology to work better with particular games.

 

Theoretically, I suppose it could be an adapter that used standard paddles, but I think I'd go with a different scheme to allow inherent "jitter" reduction and allow a joystick-emulating-paddle (joypaddle?) to be plugged in directly as a replacement to a standard joystick without messy adapters and confusing y-cables and such.

Edited January 29, 2010 by BigO

[Video]

If it's a driving game, it should definitely use a Driving controller, that's kinda der there Though a lot of homebrews (and hacks) do have DC support, so that counts I guess.

 

How about Gravitar? That game would rock with a DC instead of a stick (though you'd loose the shield, without a modded DC (two more buttons could be added easily with no extra strain on the console))

 

Like said above, a LOT of games should have used the DC, don't know why they didn't, I mean, Indy 500 is a perfect example of how well it could work.

[tz101]

Along the way, I made an adapter that let me play driving controller games with a joystick. Playing Indy 500 with a joystick wasn't what I'd call an upgrade.

 

So, conversely, it is technically possible to make an adapter that lets a person play joystick games with a paddle/driving controller as well then. Now somebody needs to get to work on this pronto...

[Lauren Tyler]

If the paddles had a second button, then Pole Position for sure.

 

Also, I wish someone could mod Omega Race so it could be played with one button. I mean, why the hell did they make the Booster-Grip Adapter? Why didn't they just make it so you pushed upwards to thrust and used the button to fire?

[BigO]

If the paddles had a second button, then Pole Position for sure.

 

Also, I wish someone could mod Omega Race so it could be played with one button. I mean, why the hell did they make the Booster-Grip Adapter? Why didn't they just make it so you pushed upwards to thrust and used the button to fire?

I think it has been hacked. I remember that coming up when we were discussing a hardware solution that I'd built.

 

 

[Edit]: here's where I remember it from

http://www.atariage...._1#entry1328076

 

Here's the info on the hacked version:

http://www.atariage.com/hack_page.html?SystemID=2600&SoftwareHackID=83

Edited February 2, 2010 by BigO

[Nukey Shay]

I have no clue whether or not the additional cycles can be squeezed out of the SI code.

Yes. Displayed patterns of invaders burn at least 15 cycles every other scanline (more if you remove WYSNCs to use cycle-exact branching). And most cycle time is available between rows. That's more than enough chances for polling. There's even a fair amount of ram & rom to be reclaimed due to superfluous/inefficient code. All this extra time and resources made the SI Deluxe hack possible.

[Lynxpro]

I think it has been hacked. I remember that coming up when we were discussing a hardware solution that I'd built.

 

 

[Edit]: here's where I remember it from

http://www.atariage...._1#entry1328076

 

Here's the info on the hacked version:

http://www.atariage.com/hack_page.html?SystemID=2600&SoftwareHackID=83

 

I really wish Atari would've made 2-button Paddles/Driving Controllers. They had the perfect shape; they just needed the 2nd button on the opposite side like the Amiga PowerStick joystick. Add a Rapid Fire switch and bam, perfection.

[ledzep]

I agree for sure that Gyruss would have been better with paddles. A spinner type controller would have been better, but paddles would have been a major improvement.

I never liked the concept of any driving games using the joystick.

It would have been cool to have a spinner in a joystick (square) housing, have the option to sit it on a table so you could spin it fast and let go so it could spin for a few seconds (like the Tempest arcade controller). And two buttons! I never understood why the Atari 2600 controllers were all single fire button, that's nuts considering the amount of arcade game ports.

 

What baffles me is that Atari never offered an analog joystick for the 2600. It's a natural, isn't it? The 2 paddle inputs are the X and Y directions for the joystick, just like the 5200 and Vectrex, and you get 2 fire buttons at least. Can you imagine an analog stick for the 2600 that could use some of the joystick directions as extra fire buttons or alternate left/right/up/down buttons like the Vectrex? Make sure it self-centers, though, or incur the wrath of gamers everywhere.

 

Now that would be a great project for a homebrew programmer, make a game like Tail Gunner or 5200 type Missile Command (I know there's a 2600 Missile Command already) that uses analog control and also include an analog joystick with multiple buttons. 3 missile bases! I would so buy that game + controller! That could open up homebrew programmers to analog stick games, too. And then, naturally, a trak-ball that uses the 5200 logic (convert gray code to analog POT signals) would follow. We already have the CX-53 PCB design to build off of.

 

As for actual 2600 games, if not already mentioned -

 

Deadly Duck

Shootin' Gallery

[ledzep]

I think anything that used a paddle in the arcade, should have done the same on a home version.

 

Same with a joystick. Games like Space Invaders would be unchallenging with a DC or paddle.

 

I think the 2600 should have come with a plastic stick insert for both sticks for games like

Robotron, Combat and Battle zone.

 

Haha, exactly, half the reason I bought a boxed Robotron for my Atari 800 off of eBay was for the joystick holder built into the box -

 

 

I've never been that good at Robotron but that box, and therefore the game, was a must-buy. If you have a joystick with a fire button on top then that set-up would work for a Battlezone or Combat type game but it would have to be a modified CX-40 in order to work with that box insert.

 

I would like to see more paddle homebrew games for the 2600 (and driving controller games), but I'd also like to see more games use the keypad, too. Not simply the keypad but in combination with a joystick a la those 5200 games like Star Raiders that really utilized the extra buttons. I would think that a keyboard + joystick controller combo would work great for adventure games. Would need loads more RAM, though, I'm guessing.

[Lynxpro]

It would have been cool to have a spinner in a joystick (square) housing, have the option to sit it on a table so you could spin it fast and let go so it could spin for a few seconds (like the Tempest arcade controller). And two buttons! I never understood why the Atari 2600 controllers were all single fire button, that's nuts considering the amount of arcade game ports.

 

What baffles me is that Atari never offered an analog joystick for the 2600. It's a natural, isn't it? The 2 paddle inputs are the X and Y directions for the joystick, just like the 5200 and Vectrex, and you get 2 fire buttons at least. Can you imagine an analog stick for the 2600 that could use some of the joystick directions as extra fire buttons or alternate left/right/up/down buttons like the Vectrex? Make sure it self-centers, though, or incur the wrath of gamers everywhere.

 

Now that would be a great project for a homebrew programmer, make a game like Tail Gunner or 5200 type Missile Command (I know there's a 2600 Missile Command already) that uses analog control and also include an analog joystick with multiple buttons. 3 missile bases! I would so buy that game + controller! That could open up homebrew programmers to analog stick games, too. And then, naturally, a trak-ball that uses the 5200 logic (convert gray code to analog POT signals) would follow. We already have the CX-53 PCB design to build off of.

 

As for actual 2600 games, if not already mentioned -

 

Deadly Duck

Shootin' Gallery

 

The 5200 does have the POKEY advantage though when reading analog controllers.

 

As for 3-Base Missile Command, the in-house Atari version did support that on A8. Dan's custom Trak-Ball uses DB9s but the Paddle lines are used for the extra fire buttons. It plays magnificently.

[Lynxpro]

 

Haha, exactly, half the reason I bought a boxed Robotron for my Atari 800 off of eBay was for the joystick holder built into the box -

 

 

I've never been that good at Robotron but that box, and therefore the game, was a must-buy. If you have a joystick with a fire button on top then that set-up would work for a Battlezone or Combat type game but it would have to be a modified CX-40 in order to work with that box insert.

 

I would like to see more paddle homebrew games for the 2600 (and driving controller games), but I'd also like to see more games use the keypad, too. Not simply the keypad but in combination with a joystick a la those 5200 games like Star Raiders that really utilized the extra buttons. I would think that a keyboard + joystick controller combo would work great for adventure games. Would need loads more RAM, though, I'm guessing.

 

I hope you didn't pay too much for that on ePay because Best Electronics still sells them NOS.

 

In hindsight, it's annoying Atari didn't sell them to 2600 owners. It would've helped with Raiders of the Lost Ark. Spy Hunter as well - they had their own flimsy coupler - although that should use a Driving Controller but then you'd still be stuck with one fire button. I guess I shouldn't complain much because at least this coupler - like the 5200 one - was released and thus saw the light of day, unlike the 7800 Pro Line joystick coupler which there's only 2 known to exist.

 

If anyone's interested, you can see pics of Dan's custom Trak-Ball being used with 3-Base Missile Command that was on display at this year's Davis Atari Party. There's other pictures of Dan's 5200 Paddle that Gary Rubio did in the Atari Inc Consumer Engineering Lab back in the day. He converted one of their first 5200 joysticks which in the pics you can tell they are original because the buttons normally labeled * and = say Atari instead.

 

http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/atariparty/2015/photos/#top

 

There's a pic of the unreleased 7800 ProLine Joystick Coupler in the pics from the 2014 Sunnyvale Atari Party:

 

http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/atariparty/2014/photos/

Edited December 1, 2015 by Lynxpro

[ledzep]

The 5200 does have the POKEY advantage though when reading analog controllers.

Even so, having essentially both paddles as halves of an analog stick would work at least as well as using 2 actual paddles, yes? It would still be worth trying, I think, to see if a double-paddle/joystick game could be made for the 2600. Tail Gunner would be the obvious choice, not too many targets to kill at any one time, simple gameplay with a shield that doesn't even last that long.

 

 

But it really requires an alalog joystick control scheme, a digital joystick would suck.

 

As for 3-Base Missile Command, the in-house Atari version did support that on A8. Dan's custom Trak-Ball uses DB9s but the Paddle lines are used for the extra fire buttons. It plays magnificently.

Is there a schematic for that trak-ball so that others could wire up their own? And is the 3-Base Missile Command ROM available anywhere?

[Lynxpro]

Even so, having essentially both paddles as halves of an analog stick would work at least as well as using 2 actual paddles, yes? It would still be worth trying, I think, to see if a double-paddle/joystick game could be made for the 2600. Tail Gunner would be the obvious choice, not too many targets to kill at any one time, simple gameplay with a shield that doesn't even last that long.

 

 

But it really requires an alalog joystick control scheme, a digital joystick would suck.

 

Is there a schematic for that trak-ball so that others could wire up their own? And is the 3-Base Missile Command ROM available anywhere?

 

 

Man, thanks for reminding me of Tail Gunner. I totally forgot about that one. I probably haven't played that in 31 years. The local Chuck E. Cheese's had it back then. Loved it. Same with that vector graphics rip-off of Star Wars [i think Exidy might've made it]. Why those two games weren't licensed for the Vectrex back in the day, I have no clue.

 

As for 3-Base Missile Command on Atari 8-bit, there's only one known 5 1/4" floppy with the game on it in existence still. It's Dan Kramer's custom version. Back in the day, each disk was customized to display the Atari employee's name at the start-up. Dan would like to have someone market it and ultimately convert it to the 5200 so it can be played with the CX-53. Of course, the CX-53 would have to be modded for using 3 fire buttons or one of the keypad buttons would have to be assigned those duties.

 

I posted Dan's details on how the custom Trak-Ball works in a different thread. Let me find it...

 

Here it is… Comment #7:

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/245554-wico-command-control-trackball-hack/

[AlwaysOnPlanetPatrol]

Gyruss, Sprint Master and Crackpots would be the top 3 for me as well. The only ones I would perhaps add would be Time Pilot and No Escape.

 

Surprise Off the Wall was released without a Paddle option.

 

I always wondered what percentage of Atari owners did not have paddles; I guess after the Atari Jr or Vader systems, that number was probably close to 99%.

[Tickled_Pink]

First thing I thought of was Space Invaders and Galaxian. Imagine how cool that would be. You could no longer blame the movement speed for your destruction.

[The Mr. Video]

I think commando raid should have used the paddle controllers. I find it pretty hard to aim with the joystick in that game, so that extra precision would help.

[ledzep]

Some of the game conversion suggestions are better suited to the driving controller, don't you think?

[+KaeruYojimbo]

Sprintmaster for sure should have used the paddles or driving controller. Using the paddles might have opened it up for four player variations too, though there'd have to be some flicker. A paddle option would have been nice for all of the driving games, but Sprintmaster seems like it would benefit the most.

 

I've never really understood the obsession with using paddle controllers for left-right shooters. Those games (at least the good ones) make the player's movement speed a critical part of the design. If you were going to do a shooter with the paddles, you'd need to design it from scratch with that in mind.

[ledzep]

Sprintmaster for sure should have used the paddles or driving controller. Using the paddles might have opened it up for four player variations too, though there'd have to be some flicker. A paddle option would have been nice for all of the driving games, but Sprintmaster seems like it would benefit the most.

 

I've never really understood the obsession with using paddle controllers for left-right shooters. Those games (at least the good ones) make the player's movement speed a critical part of the design. If you were going to do a shooter with the paddles, you'd need to design it from scratch with that in mind.

 

True. Some of the designed-in controller/game action was on purpose, I think. I can imagine that the firing base in Space Invaders could only move so fast in "reality" and therefore couldn't zip all the way across left and right like Breakout. If those descending aliens were anywhere near human size or bigger, I mean.

 

A friend of mine loved Galaxian when it was new, there were some ports of it he hated because the player could fire much more frequently or rapidly than in the arcade version. He said the arcade version forced the player to plan and anticipate movements and times to fire because there were less shots. I saw his point, at the very least game ports should always have a true-to-the-arcade-version setting along with any alternate controllers or game action. So I wouldn't want a Space Invaders with a paddle unless there was also a setting that was the same as the arcade version. If you want to make a homebrew vertical shooter game that has the shooter at the bottom and it's moved with a paddle or driving controller, that's great. But call it something else.