Details on the controller flaws

[Kurisu]

Alright, I will soon be receiving an Atari 5200, and would like to know exactly what the problems with the controllers are.

 

I am aware of the following:

 

Loss of / practical lack of self centering capabilities due to use of a very soft, poor strength rubber boot for the joystick support, thus creating problems for non-analog games.

 

Sudden loss of conductivity in "flex circut" contacts, thus creating the inability to actually activate gameplay; fixable with constant cleaning, or a circuit replacement.

 

...

 

And thats really it. I was wondering waht else was out there. Did the actual analog stick component hold up decently? how much maintenance does it take if it does act up? I understand it is made up of 2 potentiometers, and that things CAN come undone, so is it that hard to reset them in the tracks? How long would a good flex cleaning last? Is there a cheap way to "rig" something up? What about the fire buttons, how well do they hold up?

 

I would like to be ready to go when the machine arrives. I hope to have a friend over that same day to play it with, and I would hope to know exactly what to do to get started, and know what to look forward to in the very likely rate that they start to give out again in the MIDDLE of playing (I have heard that within an hour controllers will die out.)

 

Thanks a ton.

[HARMIK]

Best Electronics have replacement gold flex circuits that are better than the original, even if you found them new. And lots of other parts highly recommended.

[NoahsMyBro]

Loss of / practical lack of self centering capabilities due to use of a very soft, poor strength rubber boot for the joystick support, thus creating problems for non-analog games.

 

Sudden loss of conductivity in "flex circut" contacts, thus creating the inability to actually activate gameplay; fixable with constant cleaning, or a circuit replacement.

 

...

 

And thats really it. I was wondering waht else was out there. Did the actual analog stick component hold up decently? how much maintenance does it take if it does act up? I understand it is made up of 2 potentiometers, and that things CAN come undone, so is it that hard to reset them in the tracks? How long would a good flex cleaning last? Is there a cheap way to "rig" something up? What about the fire buttons, how well do they hold up?

• 
   
  
• There isn't a 'loss of' self-centering. Rather, the sticks were never designed to have self-centering in the first place. BUT, the rubber boot around the stick does provide a bit of self-centering tendency. Some boots are stiffer than others from what I've read online. Honestly, the self-centering issue never bothered me and I've never noticed any difference among the boots. I got a 5200 while they were new, and almost immediately got used to the controller, so I don't think about it.
   
  
• Loss of connectivity in flex circuits - there isn't a sudden loss of conductivity. This is a gradual thing, but fast process. I.e., if the controller works it isn't likely to spontaneously fail while you're engaged in a game. More likely, if the controller is sitting on a shelf for a few days the buttons won't work when next you hook it up to use it. Even if the controller is brand new.
   
  You can clean the circuits and they'll work again for however long, maybe a few weeks/months. Or you can replace them with the far superior revisions from Best Electronics.
   
  
• Analog sticks - I've NEVER experienced a failure of the analog sticks. And I've been enjoying my 5200 since around '82 or '83. In that time I've amassed easily over a dozen of the standard joysticks. The pots don't fail, and the sticks don't jump out of the rails on their own. The only difficulty involving the rails is that of reassembling the sticks. The first couple of times you take a stick apart to repair/replace the flex circuit, you will have a difficult time putting the stick back together so that the pots line up with the rails properly.
   
  
• Fire buttons - these use the same flex circuit as the rest of the buttons, and suffer the same problems.
  

Edited January 12, 2010 by NoahsMyBro

[Ransom]

The other, minor problem is the POKEY adjustment. The analog stick uses two potentiometers to register X and Y values. There is a third potentiometer inside the 5200 that lets you adjust where those values fall -- AKA calibrate the joystick. Some games are sensitive to this. For example, in my experience Blueprint needs them to be well calibrated or you'll lose one or two directions of movement. Calibrating the joystick is possible with nothing more than a joystick, Missile Command, and a screwdriver, but it's much easier if you have the 5200 Diagnostic Cart & the loopback board (both available from BEST Electronics, like the gold joysticks). The cart can also tell you if you have any bad chips, and help you calibrate the color output.

 

When I got my 5200, like you I was worried about reliability so I not only spent the time and money to get a near-mint case and a good motherboard as usual, but also two BEST gold joysticks, the diagnostic cart, the loopback board, and a trak-ball. At that point, I realized that the 5200 is the videogame equivalent of an Italian sports car.

 

But, I've had a great time with it ever since. My joysticks work perfectly, the trak-ball's a pleasure to use, every game works well with the controllers, and the output is crisp, clear and vibrant. Plus the case looks gorgeous.

[Kurisu]

Well, I would use the term "sudden" for the fact that I have heard people mention that they would stop playing for a the day, come back, and the buttons would already be pretty much gone: not instantaneous, but one of those "it was fine yesterday" situations.

 

I had heard the rubber boot was the only thing in the design to "center it" so calling that a self centering part was the best term I could use, I guess. hah. Nice to hear that the analog sticks themselves are alright. What is funny is, the way people complain, you think they were the most messed up parts, but it seems they last longer than the rest. I don't mind cleaning if it lasts a month or more, and repairs can eventually be bought, so it sounds like I would be able to deal with the 5200.

 

As for that POKEY adjustment. that sounds like a major headache for me, but one I am willing to try to go at when I can. hehe.

 

Thanks! I hope to hear more little "here and there" facts about these things as I wait to get my unit.

[thebiggw]

I have had a 5200 for about a year now I am new to the system as well. But I can say I love it almost more than my 7800. But I love Atari in general I think all the systems have good and bad points. But what tires me the most about the 5200 is the bashing it receives for having the most advanced controllers of its era. Yes they do break there is no question about the fact it is hard to find non-broken controllers. However there are choices although they are limited, if you simply cannot let go of that CX-40 joystick then I suggest you go to mouser and buy the parts to make a 5200 to 2600 joystick adapter. The schematics can be found in the FAQ section of AA.

Edited January 12, 2010 by thebiggw

[tz101]

Old controller pots can be taken apart and have the contacts cleaned. That is mostly what makes them work improperly: dirt buildup on the internal contacts.

 

Carbon contacts on the back of the rubber buttons tend to get "ozoned" over the years. Start by cleaning all the carbon dot contacts with alcohol. If that does not fix unresponsive buttons, go to the foil dot trick next. Basically, use a paper punch to punch a bunch of dots out of a sheet of good quality aluminum foil, then use either a hot glue gun or super glue to attach a dot to the carbon contact of each rubber button. Presto, all your rubber buttons will work as good as new.

 

Finally, if the stick rubber boots are cracked or very loose in their feel, it is well worth it to order some new stiffer ones from Best. Mine are now self centering due to Best replacement boots.

 

Best wishes with your 5200. You will enjoy it for sure.

[Gorf]

Old controller pots can be taken apart and have the contacts cleaned. That is mostly what makes them work improperly: dirt buildup on the internal contacts.

 

Carbon contacts on the back of the rubber buttons tend to get "ozoned" over the years. Start by cleaning all the carbon dot contacts with alcohol. If that does not fix unresponsive buttons, go to the foil dot trick next. Basically, use a paper punch to punch a bunch of dots out of a sheet of good quality aluminum foil, then use either a hot glue gun or super glue to attach a dot to the carbon contact of each rubber button. Presto, all your rubber buttons will work as good as new.

 

Finally, if the stick rubber boots are cracked or very loose in their feel, it is well worth it to order some new stiffer ones from Best. Mine are now self centering due to Best replacement boots.

 

Best wishes with your 5200. You will enjoy it for sure.

 

 

Actually the best way is to replace the pot completely and get it the hell over with. Never seeing

what they look like on a 5200 stick, Im willing to bet you can find one of similar size and value

that will work in it's place.

 

 

http://www.best-electronics-ca.com/cx52_j.htm is a pretty well detailed page of info on the sticks

and it looks like they have the pots too.

Edited January 12, 2010 by Gorf

[tz101]

The first couple of times you take a stick apart to repair/replace the flex circuit, you will have a difficult time putting the stick back together so that the pots line up with the rails properly.

 

Here's what you need for realigning the stick slider plates with the pot arms on reassembly of the controller:

 

Make certain the top pot arm is aligned at the 9 o'clock position and that the bottom pot arm is aligned at the 6 o'clock position. Then, with the stick held as close to perfectly centered in the controller's top case half, lower the slider plates over the pot arms. Don't pinch any wires and everything should be good to go once you tighten all the screws back in place.

[zylon]

The only jumping out of position occurs when the pot glue has broken. It's a simple fix with just a dab of glue. I've rebuilt over 30 of those controllers and only had 4 bad pots. The other way to adjust for proper screen position is by moving the arms on the pots themselves, but either method works. Also good to back off the screws one quarter turn after tightening to help prevent binding inside.

Edited January 12, 2010 by zylon