Looking into adding an ST to my collection

[AB Positive]

I recently sold my Amiga, as it's a great machine but the A8 just held more sway.

 

However I still love some of the 16-bit era computer games, and want to work with some music apps (Cubase maybe? A tracker, looking at doing chiptunes mainly...). The fact that ST hardware upgrades seem easier and in some cases cheaper than Amiga (you mean I can use SIMM for RAM? noice!) leads me to thinking an ST might be more for me.

 

Also - and I may be the only person that thinks this - I've always liked the "ST sound" over the Amiga's. Although this is the same gal that like the Genesis sounds over the Super Nintendo. Maybe I'm just whacked in the head.

 

So for someone that wants to do gaming AND music apps, with MIDI out included (I have a great 8-track digital mixer with MIDI in/out)... where should I be looking. Also, I'd rather not have to spring for shipping a monitor (since classic computing in New England seems to be limited to old PCs and MACs) so one that could be modded to run off a TV or that has some sort of Composite-out standard would be great too.

 

Should my rambling make any sort of sense, I thank everyone in advance for responding with ideas.

[+save2600]

I'm not going to be much of an advocate for ST stuff as I think you made a big mistake selling an Amiga, only to acquire an ST later, BUT... the 1040 sounds like the model you'd be after. With its 1mb of ram, built in MIDI and low density DOS compatible disk drive, you could quickly be on your way to downloading and making your own ST disks off your PC. Like the Amiga, anything over 1mb ram doesn't make too much sense if you're just wanting to do some gaming and fiddling around with a few music programs. It's always nice to have more memory, just for your own piece of mind - but these systems and their OS's are extremely streamlined and compact. Resource wasters they are not.

[Shredder11]

Grab yourself a nice Atari STE with at least 1MB, although you can get a 4MB SIMM upgrade from Ebay very cheaply and then get a Supera Color HD video adapter, which will let you display all the resolution modes on any monitor in excellent quality. You will also need a few cables like a 13-pin VGA mono and a 13-pin to SCART and preferably a monitor switch box from Ebay to save unplugging cables all the time. However if you only plan on using Cubase, you will only require the VGA mono cable. If you get a LCD monitor, try use one that is 17" or 19" 4:3 screen ratio and 1280 x 1024 resolution for best results. Widescreen will work too but I have no experience with those.

 

If possible grab a MIDI merge box and a MIDI ouput expander to add a further MIDI OUT to your STE, which plugs into the modem port. This means you can have both a digital multitrack and a keyboard plugged into the MIDI IN on the STE via the merge box. The extra MIDI OUT means you can control more modules etc and not have any MIDI latency.

 

All of this can be found very cheaply from Ebay, although some people can charge stupid amounts of money for the STE so be patient. I got my 2nd and 3rd STEs from one auction with IDE interface, External Floppy, TOS 2.06, 4MB x2, VGA mono, SCART and other stuff all for £72!!! However many auctions for just one STE and no extras can cost the same or more....

[AB Positive]

Oh, I know I'll get an Amiga again at some point, however I'm a hardware hacker and it appears to be easier/cheaper to upgrade an ST than an Amiga. I had an a500 and if/when I get another miggy it'll be a a1200 since with WHDLoad you NEED an accelerator and FastRAM to get great results. Unless I'm mistaken, an UltraSatan appears to be workable with even a regular 1040ST.

 

I figured STe might be where I needed to go, but since I'm a newcomer to the ST/MIDI setup I figured it best to ask here. Native MIDI also is a big plus.

 

The only negative I have with the Amiga is the sound. Really, really have an issue with the sampled sound setup on the Amiga. Listening to the ports of Jim Power on both kind of sold me on an ST, the ST version sounds so much better to me than the Amiga port. I know I'm in an extreme minority there, but then again I prefer the POKEY sound to SID. Different strokes, I guess.

[The_Laird]

I personally love the sound of the Yamamha sound chips so I can see where you are coming from too. And funny enough I also prefer Pokey to Sid.

[AB Positive]

I personally love the sound of the Yamamha sound chips so I can see where you are coming from too. And funny enough I also prefer Pokey to Sid.

 

Yay! I'm not alone!

 

Beep Bloop >>>> samples

[+save2600]

Yay! I'm not alone!

 

Beep Bloop >>>> samples

 

 

I agree that there's a certain 'charm' to those sounds. Undeniable really as a fan of classic gaming and computing. BTW: WHDLoad works just fine on an A500 and 1mb of ram. Just need to secure a mass storage device is all. Only downside is the time it takes to load all those files from Workbench! (takes mere seconds on a 7.16mhz 68000 is all). If you're impatient, you can always navigate the folders through the CLI.

 

 

[oky2000]

I recently sold my Amiga, as it's a great machine but the A8 just held more sway.

 

However I still love some of the 16-bit era computer games, and want to work with some music apps (Cubase maybe? A tracker, looking at doing chiptunes mainly...). The fact that ST hardware upgrades seem easier and in some cases cheaper than Amiga (you mean I can use SIMM for RAM? noice!) leads me to thinking an ST might be more for me.

 

Also - and I may be the only person that thinks this - I've always liked the "ST sound" over the Amiga's. Although this is the same gal that like the Genesis sounds over the Super Nintendo. Maybe I'm just whacked in the head.

 

So for someone that wants to do gaming AND music apps, with MIDI out included (I have a great 8-track digital mixer with MIDI in/out)... where should I be looking. Also, I'd rather not have to spring for shipping a monitor (since classic computing in New England seems to be limited to old PCs and MACs) so one that could be modded to run off a TV or that has some sort of Composite-out standard would be great too.

 

Should my rambling make any sort of sense, I thank everyone in advance for responding with ideas.

 

Ha ha I totally agree with the Genesis sound vs SNES, especially on games like Gauntlet IV.

 

Anyway I would say get a 520STE and some simm modules to upgrade the RAM easily. Also, all STs can output a composite signal from the monitor port AFAIK

[FastRobPlus]

I recently sold my Amiga, as it's a great machine but the A8 just held more sway.

 

However I still love some of the 16-bit era computer games, and want to work with some music apps (Cubase maybe? A tracker, looking at doing chiptunes mainly...). The fact that ST hardware upgrades seem easier and in some cases cheaper than Amiga (you mean I can use SIMM for RAM? noice!) leads me to thinking an ST might be more for me.

 

Also - and I may be the only person that thinks this - I've always liked the "ST sound" over the Amiga's. Although this is the same gal that like the Genesis sounds over the Super Nintendo. Maybe I'm just whacked in the head.

 

So for someone that wants to do gaming AND music apps, with MIDI out included (I have a great 8-track digital mixer with MIDI in/out)... where should I be looking. Also, I'd rather not have to spring for shipping a monitor (since classic computing in New England seems to be limited to old PCs and MACs) so one that could be modded to run off a TV or that has some sort of Composite-out standard would be great too.

 

Should my rambling make any sort of sense, I thank everyone in advance for responding with ideas.

 

In this day and age, the only valid reason for not owning both (and a IIGS, a 286, a C128, etc, etc) is storage space.

 

I would point out that Amigas are currently easier to upgrade - especially with Individual computers still making new upgrades (and if anyone wants to debate this, I'd be happy to in the ST vs Amiga thread)

 

That said, I have to agree an STE is a nice all-in-one retro system and should not need much in the way of upgrades for retro gaming. For music, you might want mass storage but that's about it. I don't think any ST has stock composite out (Atari made good margin off monitors!) but this forum has step by step mod instructions.

 

I know what you mean about the sound. I really like the retro sound of the C64, A8, and Intelivision chips (I think Intellivision is identical to ST.) It really gives a way back in time feel to the early games.

[+save2600]

I know what you mean about the sound. I really like the retro sound of the C64, A8, and Intelivision chips (I think Intellivision is identical to ST.) It really gives a way back in time feel to the early games.

 

Snafu's sounds and music ROCKS!

 

 

 

[+remowilliams]

I agree, an STE is the way to go. A Mega STE if you really want to go deluxe.

[+poobah]

I agree, an STE is the way to go. A Mega STE if you really want to go deluxe.

 

Another vote for the MSTe.

You'll be able to run most software, and have the most evolved ST, and internal mass storage.

 

If it won't run on an MSTe, you need an old 1040 with TOS 1.4 or below anyway.

[AB Positive]

Would the MSTe w/ internal storage be a 'better' solution than say a 1040STe with an UltraSatan? Or perhaps I should ask if the max RAM capability is better on a Mega over a regular STe.

 

Extra RAM is always fun for demos

[Thorsten Günther]

Would the MSTe w/ internal storage be a 'better' solution than say a 1040STe with an UltraSatan? Or perhaps I should ask if the max RAM capability is better on a Mega over a regular STe.

 

Extra RAM is always fun for demos

 

The RAM capacity is identical (max. 4 megs in 30 pin SIMMs), but the Mega STE has a built-in CPU speeder (16MHz) and presumably will not have the dreaded defective DMA chip found in several early 1040STEs. Additionally, it is way easier to add a hd disk drive to the Mega STE (if it doesn't already come with one). The only drawback is the lack of Jaguar joypad ports. For space reasons, I chose a 1040STE (with a working DMA chip).

 

The internal storage option of the Mega STE is admittedly crippled (max. 1 gig hdd capacity, only 1 hdd) - therefore third-party replacements like the "Link'96 MSTE" were created 14 years ago. Exchanging data with a PC is easier with an UltraSatan and HDDRIVERs dual compatibility option (one 512 meg partition can be used for both PC and TOS) or BigDOS anyway.

 

Thorsten

[+poobah]

Would the MSTe w/ internal storage be a 'better' solution than say a 1040STe with an UltraSatan? Or perhaps I should ask if the max RAM capability is better on a Mega over a regular STe.

 

Extra RAM is always fun for demos

 

The MSTe is really just a 16MHz STe with a detachable keyboard and internal hard disk, VME expansions and more serial ports.

It should work with an ultrasatan, though a 1 GB HD will hold a lot

 

I prefer the detachable keyboard.

 

The MSTe's are a little harder to come by.

[simonsunnyboy]

 

Anyway I would say get a 520STE and some simm modules to upgrade the RAM easily. Also, all STs can output a composite signal from the monitor port AFAIK

 

Composite is only partially true - all STs THAT HAVE THE RF MODULATOR do output a composite video signal. On others it can be wired up at the loss of color information....

[tjlazer]

I agree the ST(E) are the way to go (Easily expandable to 4MB via 30-pin SIMMs). BUT with that said, the STE series are A LOT more expensive than the ST series (In the USA at-least) A 520/1040ST is very cheap here, but an STE? A few hundred $ vs $20 for a 1040STf.

 

No reason NOT to have an Amiga 500 and an Atari 1040STf these days. Both are COOL as heck.

Edited February 6, 2010 by tjlazer

[+save2600]

BTW: WHDLoad works just fine on an A500 and 1mb of ram. Just need to secure a mass storage device is all.

Hate replying to my own posts, but for the sake of posterity, I jumped the gun on this observation. What I meant to say is that MOST Amiga games work perfectly fine with 1mb of RAM and AmigaOS1.3. WHDLoad does indeed like to see at least a meg or two of FAST RAM for anyone that gives a hoot. Sorry for the inaccuracy!

 

BTW: I'd like a 1040STf for $20 please Or will trade a 520ST with no disk drive built in for it + some cash if need be.

Edited February 6, 2010 by save2600

[tjlazer]

BTW: WHDLoad works just fine on an A500 and 1mb of ram. Just need to secure a mass storage device is all.

Hate replying to my own posts, but for the sake of posterity, I jumped the gun on this observation. What I meant to say is that MOST Amiga games work perfectly fine with 1mb of RAM and AmigaOS1.3. WHDLoad does indeed like to see at least a meg or two of FAST RAM for anyone that gives a hoot. Sorry for the inaccuracy!

 

BTW: I'd like a 1040STf for $20 please Or will trade a 520ST with no disk drive built in for it + some cash if need be.

 

Check CL or eBay. Seen plenty of 520ST and 1040ST's go for that or slightly more...

 

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 160400314940

 

(LOL at the Amiga disks with it)

[Thorsten Günther]

I agree the ST(E) are the way to go (Easily expandable to 4MB via 30-pin SIMMs). BUT with that said, the STE series are A LOT more expensive than the ST series (In the USA at-least) A 520/1040ST is very cheap here, but an STE? A few hundred $ vs $20 for a 1040STf.

 

Whow. STEs usually sell for around 40 Euros here in Germany, STF(M)s for about half of that, plain STs for about zero. Even less on eBay UK (I've found two STEs that ended for GBP 5.50 in the last few days!), so if you have an SC1224 (or another RGB monitor), I would buy an STE there. Even including shipping and inserting a 110V PSU, this should be cheaper than the USA price.

 

Thorsten

[tjlazer]

I agree the ST(E) are the way to go (Easily expandable to 4MB via 30-pin SIMMs). BUT with that said, the STE series are A LOT more expensive than the ST series (In the USA at-least) A 520/1040ST is very cheap here, but an STE? A few hundred $ vs $20 for a 1040STf.

 

Whow. STEs usually sell for around 40 Euros here in Germany, STF(M)s for about half of that, plain STs for about zero. Even less on eBay UK (I've found two STEs that ended for GBP 5.50 in the last few days!), so if you have an SC1224 (or another RGB monitor), I would buy an STE there. Even including shipping and inserting a 110V PSU, this should be cheaper than the USA price.

 

Thorsten

 

Last year I sold a 1040STE with 4MB and TOS 2.6 or $250 on CL.

[AB Positive]

Looks like, fingers crossed, I'll be getting an STf to start my ST escapades on... I'll need to make a cable for VGA to do hi-res mono stuff, but getting a 1084 so I'll also need to make a cable for low/med res stuff for that.

 

As long as I can find tracker software that works on it though, I don't care. Mmm, YM music

[+wood_jl]

I've never seen an STe, so please forgive the naivete of this question:

 

What's the great allure of the STe nowdays? I understand what the increased hardware capabilites are. The memory is certainly going to be easy to upgrade, that's for sure. But I would certainly be interested in playing the old 80s games that I used to on 520/1040. Wouldn't most of them not work on STe? Would the easy memory upgrade and handful of STe-specific games (how many, anybody?) of STe be worth the sacrifice of early software compatibility? Then, you consider the high price/rarity of the STe.....I don't get it. What am I missing here? Wouldn't STm serve better for this purpose? What's the allure to the STe, considering this?

Edited February 11, 2010 by wood_jl

[mellis]

I've never seen an STe, so please forgive the naivete of this question:

 

What's the great allure of the STe nowdays? I understand what the increased hardware capabilites are. The memory is certainly going to be easy to upgrade, that's for sure. But I would certainly be interested in playing the old 80s games that I used to on 520/1040. Wouldn't most of them not work on STe? Would the easy memory upgrade and handful of STe-specific games (how many, anybody?) of STe be worth the sacrifice of early software compatibility? Then, you consider the high price/rarity of the STe.....I don't get it. What am I missing here? Wouldn't STm serve better for this purpose? What's the allure to the STe, considering this?

 

The 520/1040STe machines are compatible with nearly all of the software that ran on the original STs. I believe the compatibility was something like 99%, and most (if not all) of the small number of incompatible titles have since been corrected so that now they do run on the STe systems.

 

When you couple that the STe's 4096 colors and stereo sound, they become compelling machines for the ST enthusiast to own.

 

IIRC, the MegaSTE series offered good compatibility too, but there were a few additional issues that arose because its 68000 was clocked at 16MHz instead of the 520/1040STe's 8MHz. That said, the compatibility of the MegaSTE is generally regarded as very good.

[Shredder11]

The STE is easier to upgrade in every way and yes, the 4096 colours with Photochrome is something to be savoured! The sound is not too shabby either with 8ch mod files and 50KHz 8bit WAVs and stereo output. The digital joystick ports are starting to surface on more software The blitter is really cool on certain games and demos. The TOS ROMs are easier to upgrade all the way to v2.06 or even EmuTOS; better hard drive support due to v2.06 also.

 

These are just a few reasons from the top of my head why the STE is better and more desirable. I own three of them along with my new Falcon 030.