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Harmony - questions & observations


eegad

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I love the psychedelic menu color-cycling!! Thank You for putting it there in CD-W. :D I don't know why anybody born in the 1960's or 1970's doesn't like all the colors in the menu. ;) Then again I have perfect 20/15 vision up close and reading the menu isn't a problem. :P

I can't take credit for this - it was Thomas who wrote the menu code. However, I do like the color cycling effect :)

 

Chris

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This is probably the best solution, I have to agree only with a small change to that: DO BOTH! that will please all. Give people solid white or black text :P for all the people that hate color-cycling, by default, so they stop complaining. And then with a flick of the B&W/Color switch: full or all the main colors(like the early bios had) cycling in awesome retro-psychedalia neon-acid visions! (and not just the Harmony logo colors cycling but all colors) for the people like you Thomas and myself and others? that do actually like all the pretty colors. :D

Good suggestion. The problem is, that I have not enough space to do both. So I am trying to find a compromise.

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Yes, I realized my mistake but it was too late to use the edit key. And I forgot that previously, I learned Thomas coded the menus in Harmony, then I saw this today: (and got confused) (The Bolded):

 

How about this, hidden on main screen, shown when button held for full description?

 

I think that would be ideal for me, but I have NO IDEA on how it works, or how hard changes are to be implemented, assuming they are possible.

Neither can I. cd-w provides the menu code with filtered data.

 

Your suggestion seems easier to implement for him.

 

I can't take credit for this - it was Thomas who wrote the menu code. However, I do like the color cycling effect.

 

Chris

 

Well lets see that make four people in this thread: Thomas, Chris, Lendorien and myself! that can appreciate Thomas's vision for the menu - it's truely an authentic 1960's 1970's feature and quite captivating, it does grab your attention. When I brang the Harmony and my H6er over to two of my friend's houses, their young kids(under 10) as well as various adults there will just sit and stare at the color-cycling menu until I load-up a game! :P (I'm running the old bios) and they say things like: WOW! Dude Where did ya get that 2600 cartridge??? that looks awesome man! - Nice!, can you get me one too?? :) I'm like 55 bucks dude and it's yours! right now! I've sold two already to my personal friends only at my cost of course, as I wouldn't want to overcharge my friends ;), and Harmonies are in good supply right now.

 

Good suggestion. The problem is, that I have not enough space to do both. So I am trying to find a compromise.

 

I see,.. :? well that can be a problem then :|, However, I hope you pick a menu solution that pleases YOU as you wrote the menu code. :D

Edited by ovalbugmann
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I originally did not like the cycling, but only a little. I have since brightened up TV and increased the contrast, mainly for Phasor Patrol to see the shield effect correctly. Black is still black, and the mennu looks much better. I am starting to appreciate it more. The funny thing is I was playing last night, my wife was relaxing, and I was showing my daughter how to use it, and my wife asked "Why is everything moving?"

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That's not what I meant - I meant that the 'pause mode' could use SOLID COLORS, so the user could always choose between readable and nice and cycleraster and pretty.

I got you the first time already.

 

Oh. So you meant that solid colors in pause mode would be somehow less retro than having then unevenly shaded? I just meant that if the purpose of pause mode is to make the text more readable, why settle for such a lazy solution instead of having a solid color? That way there would be the moving raster-effect for the retro effect (yay!), and pause mode for readable text. Everyone wins!

 

Right now I don't see how the 'retro effect' in pause mode (it's not even moving in pause mode so what's so retro about having the text unevenly shaded?) enchances the experience - I think it has the bad sides from both worlds; the text is less readable and it's not even having a moving retro effect..

 

So if you got me the first time already, I think I will need a bit more explanation then for why this is better solution than moving retro effect and solid color pause. (the color could be some random bright color though, like orange or something, or it could change colors, but solidly! I think that's pretty retro (-8)

 

- Monk

Edited by Monk
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Well, in the next BIOS the menu will become even more "greyish" since we have to use brighter colors to make the menu more readable. And since Atari 2600 palette has less saturation for brighter colors, every color will become less saturated.

 

So.. you WANT to make the text more readable, BUT you want to still make the text more unreadable, because that's "faithfully retro".

 

Isn't that a bit schitzo way of thinking about this? (-8

 

Just make it extremely unreadable when it's flashing so it looks as cool as possible with kewl rainbow colors or whatnot (the retro mode), and then make it as readable as possible with solid, bright colors in pause mode (the readable mode), so you don't have to make any compromises in readability OR retroing.

 

What do you think?

 

- Monk

Edited by Monk
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It's not the text, it's the crappy background color:

 

post-13-126503249256_thumb.png

 

Maybe if it was brightened up, I could read it better:

 

post-13-126503253778_thumb.png

 

I have no problems reading the first one. It's probably faithfully retro, you see.. (-8

 

You can always adjust the brightness of the monitor - it's hardly the website creator's fault if you have your monitor's brightness setting too low.

 

- Monk

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It is now using Google Checkout. Just go to the order form, enter your card details and you are basically done.

 

Thanks.. But what card? My library card? My bus card?

 

I don't have a credit card.. so this means only credit card owners can purchase Harmony Carts from now on? Dang, there goes my dream of purchasing another one so my mom could also have one.

 

- Monk

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I originally did not like the cycling, but only a little. I have since brightened up TV and increased the contrast, mainly for Phasor Patrol to see the shield effect correctly. Black is still black, and the mennu looks much better. I am starting to appreciate it more.

 

I think the cycling is cool!

 

I just wish the pause mode would show solid colors instead of me having to pause-unpause-pause-unpause until I find good enough compromise where the shading is in such a place where most of the text can be seen well.

 

The solid colors could cycle solidly.. without rasterbar-effect - just changing the solid color smoothly from one color to another. I think that'd be great, retro AND readable!

 

- Monk

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This is probably the best solution, I have to agree only with a small change to that: DO BOTH! that will please all. Give people solid white or black text :P for all the people that hate color-cycling, by default, so they stop complaining. And then with a flick of the B&W/Color switch: full or all the main colors(like the early bios had) cycling in awesome retro-psychedalia neon-acid visions! (and not just the Harmony logo colors cycling but all colors) for the people like you Thomas and myself and others? that do actually like all the pretty colors. :D

Good suggestion. The problem is, that I have not enough space to do both. So I am trying to find a compromise.

 

Heh, this is actually my idea in reverse - I'd think the psychedelic color cycling could be the default feature, and those who have retro machines without wanting the menu to show the retro colors (which to me seems a bit weird - why would one even have an Atari 2600 if one doesn't like it's colors and raster effects?).. I think that'd be more logical. I think people who appreciate colors of the Atari 2600 should be served first, so to speak (-8

 

But I had no idea it's that memory intensive that you cannot do both.. well, that explains why you are doing those compromise things.. too bad there's not enough memory to do both. Well, in that case I am satisfied in how it is right now, I don't really think it absolutely needs to be changed at all.

 

Thanks for all the info and so on..

 

Hey, how about having special BIOS files so people could choose which one they want to install - or would that be too much work? I mean, there could be a PSYCHEDELIC Bios files, then there could be SOLID Bios files, and then perhaps SOLID CYCLING Bios files - then everyone could choose whatever they want to see..

 

Hmm.. Bios upgrading would probably then be too much hassle though, I mean you would have to then upgrade all three different Bioses when you upgrade it, and all three versions of all three Bioses..

 

But this is just an idea anyway, feel free to toss it in the air and kung fu jumpkick it into oblivion (-8

 

- Monk

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This is probably the best solution, I have to agree only with a small change to that: DO BOTH! that will please all. Give people solid white or black text :P for all the people that hate color-cycling, by default, so they stop complaining. And then with a flick of the B&W/Color switch: full or all the main colors(like the early bios had) cycling in awesome retro-psychedalia neon-acid visions! (and not just the Harmony logo colors cycling but all colors) for the people like you Thomas and myself and others? that do actually like all the pretty colors. :D

Good suggestion. The problem is, that I have not enough space to do both. So I am trying to find a compromise.

 

I like the color cycling, but it is difficult to read. That's really my only complaint about the menu. As other say, brightening the monitor seems to help a lot. So, I would say that as a stopgap, use brighter colors for the cycling a bit. I think that will make it a bit easier to read and solve a lot of the issues people have. A lot of the problem is with the dim colors from what I see.

Edited by Lendorien
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**************************************************************

Hey, how about having special BIOS files so people could choose which one they want to install - or would that be too much work? I mean, there could be a PSYCHEDELIC Bios files, then there could be SOLID Bios files, and then perhaps SOLID CYCLING Bios files - then everyone could choose whatever they want to see..

**************************************************************

:D Monk's got a good idea here, that way we can have full, all colors(not just the harmony colors) cycling psychedelic menu texts and also solid color menus for those that don't want that. We people that like the original cycling idea can have what we want and others can have what they want - that way everyone could get their menus 100% how they like them! -awesome!!! Of course if you have 5 different bios's now that means we'll need 10 to do this idea. Or just do these two different bios's for Windows only, probably the most used OS anyway. I would be willing to pay for the extra programming work involved.

 

Sounds like a good idea to solve this. :)

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**************************************************************

Hey, how about having special BIOS files so people could choose which one they want to install - or would that be too much work? I mean, there could be a PSYCHEDELIC Bios files, then there could be SOLID Bios files, and then perhaps SOLID CYCLING Bios files - then everyone could choose whatever they want to see..

**************************************************************

:D Monk's got a good idea here, that way we can have full, all colors(not just the harmony colors) cycling psychedelic menu texts and also solid color menus for those that don't want that. We people that like the original cycling idea can have what we want and others can have what they want - that way everyone could get their menus 100% how they like them! -awesome!!! Of course if you have 5 different bios's now that means we'll need 10 to do this idea. Or just do these two different bios's for Windows only, probably the most used OS anyway. I would be willing to pay for the extra programming work involved.

 

Sounds like a good idea to solve this. :)

Maybe instead of different bios versions, why not have an option to select which type of menu you want from the Harmony Programming Tool? Maybe a check box to select the menu type you want before it drops the EEPROM loader?

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I showed Harmony to my wife yesterday and was telling her how some are having a tough time reading the onscreen menu. For whatever reason, settings on the old 26" JVC TV, I don't know, but I find the menu text extremely easy to read. My wife had trouble, but she didn't have her glasses on and she should! :). This is on a stock unmodiffied 2600 (Vader model).

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I showed Harmony to my wife yesterday and was telling her how some are having a tough time reading the onscreen menu. For whatever reason, settings on the old 26" JVC TV, I don't know, but I find the menu text extremely easy to read. My wife had trouble, but she didn't have her glasses on and she should! :). This is on a stock unmodiffied 2600 (Vader model).

Mine improved on my 27" tube TV, and it looked OK on my 50" Sony HD SXRD as is. I need to pull out a 4 switch instead of the JR and see how they look. I think the JR has a bad solder joint on the RF out.

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  • 5 months later...
By the way, does anyone else still have problem with Congo Bongo? I can't get any version of it to work. Though I didn't try that Atarimania ROM collection yet, so hopefully that would work.. Hope to test it soon.

(I know this topic is a bit stale, but I thought I'd reply since nobody ever answered Monk.)

 

Have you tried binaries from different sources? IIRC, there was a bad dump here at AA for years, that may have been copied to other sites too. I think it may have worked in the Z26 emulator, but nowhere else, because the emulator was patched to make it work. There seem to have been a lot of bad dumps fairly recently discovered, which fit that profile.

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  • 1 month later...

Today I received my Harmony cartridge, and the first thing I tried with it was loading Pepsi Invaders (cokewins.bin). I noticed the colors for this game (and some others) are incorrect; on the atari the bars are green and the same rom in Stella is red. Both my PAL Atari's show the same result (jr with the large rainbow / jr black small rainbow Ireland).

 

-Can anyone confirm cokewins.bin (downloaded from atariage) is green on their Harmony?

-Is this a known issue

-Any workaround or suggestions?

 

(Yes I know it's my first post on this forum, will introduce myself properly tomorrow)

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I can't get a couple of recent homebrews working on my Harmony Cart. Then again I am using my Harmony on a modded Flashback 2 so there's a few extra wrinkles in my setup.

 

The games I can't get working are trashmania and passthrough

 

With trashmania I get a black screen and with passthrough I get a rolling screen.

 

Not sure if the issue is with the Harmony, the modded Flashback 2, or the not-yet-complete roms these guys are working on.

 

Just thought I'd add my two troublesome titles to the list.

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Some batari Basic homebrews do not run on the FB2 because the SBX instruction is not supported. However, if the authors have posted source, it may be possible to build a version that does run on the FB2 provided the programmer did not use any "kernel options" in the game.

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Pepsi Invaders is NTSC, so if played on a PAL console, the colors will be wrong. The only fix would be if someone has converted the game to PAL colors. I don't know if anyone has converted this game yet (I could not find a converted binary, anyway.)

 

Thanks, with this answer I started searching for a program that could do this conversion automatically for me, but didn't find one. My guess is it's not even possible without the source code of the game?

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