Thunder Castle: What am I missing?

[+thegoldenband]

Thunder Castle is one of the most widely-praised Intellivision titles. When I saw a video on Youtube some months back, I was intrigued by the detailed graphics, not to mention the great rendition of Schubert's Unfinished Symphony. I recently picked up a very nice copy of Thunder Castle from a fellow AtariAge member; I'd played it a little bit in emulation, but was looking forward to checking out the real thing at last.

 

The graphics were as gorgeous as I'd expected (and impressed my girlfriend quite a bit). I read the manual, which explained a few things about the game I hadn't known, but otherwise the game seemed straightforward and handled well. So far so good.

 

But...where's the fun?

 

Unless I'm missing something, the game basically seems to consist of long, extended stalemates, especially once you get to level 2. Ninety percent of the time, you're going in circles, dodging the wizards without too much effort, and trying to catch up with the magic mouse so that you can get "energized" and kill them. But since your enemies can run just as fast as you (or faster!), and will instantly change direction as needed to avoid you, it's almost impossible to catch up with them. The disappearing walls never seem to last long enough to trap them in a dead end, and the mouse is never where you need him.

 

Items can help, but they often materialize on the opposite side of the maze, so that there's no way to get there in time. And even if you have the Grail, there's no lead time: as soon as you use it, boom, they're running away at full tilt. The Necklace is better, but it seems almost impossible to get all the elements in place to make it work -- one bad break with a disappearing wall, and you have to wait five minutes for another Necklace to appear.

 

Am I missing something? Is there some more effective strategy I can use? Because otherwise, I'm bewildered by the acclaim this game gets. It looks and sounds great, but right now it feels like a glorified Pac-Man where I go around in circles for fifteen minutes at a time without making any progress!

[Ransom]

I had the same reaction. "Nice graphics, but..."

 

I'd like to know what I'm missing as well.

[Rev]

i think you have to dress up as a knight to get in the mood

[thrax]

You pretty well have to use the items efficiently is what i remember. Otherwise you get into those circular patterns you mentioned. I also remember if you use the item to energize yourself and get the enemy near where they generate you might get a 2-for-1. At least try to make it to the skull level (3rd screen). That screen look really cool.

[jaybird3rd]

Thunder Castle is a great game, but I think the castle maze in particular could have used a little more tuning. I would have enjoyed it a bit more if the wizards ran away from you more slowly than their usual speed. The tough part isn't getting energized (since you can always follow the mouse), but killing the wizards after you become energized: if the circumstances aren't set up exactly right, you end up chasing after the wizards without catching them, and this gets tiresome if it happens too often.

 

I agree that the "trick" is to use the magic objects as efficiently as possible. Avoid the temptation to chase the mouse around the screen; instead, concentrate on getting the two spells most useful for killing the wizards. The grail energizes you, and the crown freezes the wizards, so these are the two you want the most. As long as you have one of them, skip all the others except the coins and the candles (which give you points and lives, respectively). Try to stay near the center of the screen as much as possible, so the spells are always within reach when they appear. If you get a grail, lure the wizards into traps (dead-ends or behind closed gates) and use the grail spell to kill them off, or even better, lure them into the halls in the upper-right corner of the maze where new wizards appear: even during the brief period of time you remain energized, you can sometimes kill off several wizards this way as soon as they appear on the screen. If you get a crown, stay close to the mouse and wait until the wizards come within striking distance; then, touch the mouse, use the crown spell, and kill the wizards while they're frozen.

 

The dungeon maze is my favorite: the vanishing skulls add an extra element of randomness to the gameplay, and the demons seem to be a bit easier to catch.

[+cvga]

+1 for your excellent description. There was a ton of info in there that I think will really help me!

[Rik]

I find TC really exciting while being chased by the dragon and vice versa.TC takes timing and strategy to play.I like it for more than the graphics and sound myself.To me,its a great game.

[IntellivisionDude]

I used to be pretty decent at this game 20+ years ago, but i cannot remember any strategies i may have learned. I have only played this once since then on the Intellivision Lives collection. But i just ordered the real cartridge again and hope to have it soon. I am in the mood to give this game a go again.

It's kind of funny that i own the Lives collection but i hate playing the games on it. I'd rather have the real thing.

[+cvga]

Here's another reason to enjoy Thunder Castle...

 

What other Intellivision game takes place near an AtariAge castle?

[Smatchmo]

Unless I'm missing something, the game basically seems to consist of long, extended stalemates...

 

Ninety percent of the time, you're going in circles, dodging the wizards without too much effort, and trying to catch up with the magic mouse so that you can get "energized" and kill them.

 

Items can help, but they often materialize on the opposite side of the maze, so that there's no way to get there in time. And even if you have the Grail, there's no lead time: as soon as you use it, boom, they're running away at full tilt. The Necklace is better, but it seems almost impossible to get all the elements in place to make it work -- one bad break with a disappearing wall, and you have to wait five minutes for another Necklace to appear.

 

Am I missing something? Is there some more effective strategy I can use? Because otherwise, I'm bewildered by the acclaim this game gets.

 

 

I've had Thunder Castle for about a month and, imo, you're not missing anything. I'll sit down for some Thunder Castle and after I'll often wonder wtf I'm doing running in circles, but.... there's just something about it.

 

I found a copy for sale at a reasonable price and even though I was hoping to get Tower of Doom well before Thunder Castle (ToD seemed to suit my tastes better than TC), I gotta say I'm very impressed with Thunder Castle. The disappearing walls frequently lead to my death; I'll find myself running in circles for 3-4 minute stretches; the items often disappear the second I approach them only to re-appear way on the other side of the screen; the 3rd stage, while visually impressive, is clearly not as well designed as the first two and is almost impossible to beat (almost)... but....I dunno. There's just something captivating & incredible about this game that keeps me coming back for more.

Edited February 3, 2010 by Smatchmo

[Lord Thag]

Beautiful graphics, great sound, cool splash screens, random mazes, tons of powerups, and tough as nails in a fun, but never unfair, kind of way.

 

What's NOT to like?

[jeremysart]

Great game, and I agree it can be frustrating for sure, especially once your past the first stage.

My tip is, if you get a wizard, and you are still invulnerable, get as close to the spawning point as possible, it is not too hard to get a twofer, and if your lucky a three-for-all (very esy to accomplish in the first stage).

 

And for wheres the fun, it needs to be worked at. Fun comes from laughing with whoever is watching, and the rush once you actually do get past the stage.

 

I have made it past the second stage a few times, but I have yet to finish the third. Bastard Imps..

 

If you want to play a REALLY well thought out fun game that is similar to TC, with a mix of Diablo, check out Tower of Doom. Its in my top 10 for Intellivision right up with Thunder Castle and Bump N' Jump.

[+thegoldenband]

I'm definitely going to spend some more time with TC, and see if I can work out some strategies that help me to reliably make progress, following jaybird3rd's lead. That was really the issue -- I don't mind tough games (if anything I prefer them), but I just felt like I was spinning my wheels.

 

Thanks to all for your replies! BTW if anyone needs their own copy of this, I'll probably have a spare loose cart on the Marketplace within a couple weeks.

[+thegoldenband]

Okay, I'm starting to come around on Thunder Castle. Right after my last reply, I played it for the first time since I started this thread, and made it to Level 3 (which I'd never done before), beat it, and beat Levels 1 & 2 again before falling victim to the red demons in the second iteration of Level 3. I think my final score was 22,300.

 

The first time around, Level 3 is definitely a smoother ride than Level 2. (The second time through Level 3 was a different story, since those demons get going pretty fast.) The fact that your allies (skulls!) are stationary makes a big, big difference. So it's definitely worth fighting past Level 2, which can be a bit of a slog, but the tactics described above seem to work quite well. The crown and grail are most effective, but the key was more useful than I realized -- I hadn't understood that you could duck through walls, not just the magic gates. That allows you to take some risks that wouldn't be practical otherwise.

 

(One question: I still don't understand what the lantern does. Can anyone explain?)

 

Having said all that, this game takes a real commitment -- the above session took about 35 minutes. But then again, that's typical of the Intellivision ethos; after all, a long game of Tower of Doom can last several hours. Things definitely get quicker and crisper after the first playthrough, and though it makes the game more challenging, it also makes it more exciting. It's a pity this one didn't ship with a selectable difficulty level; I think I'd want to play it more often if I could start on the second, faster cycle.

 

Thanks to all for helping me come to better appreciate Thunder Castle!

Edited February 6, 2010 by thegoldenband

[jaybird3rd]

I'm glad the tips have been helpful!

 

According to the manual, the lantern "doubles the knight's energy." I gather that, if you have the lantern and touch a magic creature, using the lantern doubles the amount of time you remain invincible.

 

That's interesting about the key; I always thought it merely opened closed gates.

[+thegoldenband]

Re: the lantern, I assumed the same thing, but I haven't noticed any difference...?

[Grohlfan69]

Thunder Castle isn't meant to be easy, as with any game. It is meant to be challenging. It takes time and strategy to win. If a game is easy it sucks and gets boring quick. The cool thing about TC is that the 3 levels cycle over and over getting more challenging each time, where everything speeds up and the duration of your energized knight gets less and less. This guarantees a huge replay value for the game. This is by far my favorite childhood game--I played it at age 9 and will always cherish this masterpiece. :-)

[atarifan88]

I felt the same way about Thunder Castle, then someone hacked the game and made it simpler so you could catch up to the dragons, wizards, and demons.  I highly recommend trying this hack called Mystic Castle.  It's way more fun!

 

[mr_me]

That's like cheating.  As it is the game is balanced so you're faster than the green guardian; the yellow guardian is about your speed; and the red guardians are faster than you.  As with many intellivision games, some strategy is required to win; so read the instructions, it only takes a couple of minutes.

Edited February 16, 2021 by mr_me

[IntyFanMatt]

2 hours ago, atarifan88 said:

I felt the same way about Thunder Castle, then someone hacked the game and made it simpler so you could catch up to the dragons, wizards, and demons.  I highly recommend trying this hack called Mystic Castle.  It's way more fun!

 

Mystic Castle is awesome!  Thunder Castle is already a great game, but Mystic castle ramped it up into the stratosphere.  Love that you can pick 4 different speeds/difficulties and make it as hard or easy as you want.  A great homebrew update on an already amazing game!

[+thegoldenband]

Yeah, still not the biggest fan of this game, despite the excellent production values. It's not a question of disliking hard games or needing to "get good" -- I've made it through a few loops, after all, which is more than enough to form an opinion. I just find that it doesn't build fast enough, and the gameplay drags.

 

Will have to try Mystic Castle. I think I bought the board but never did anything with it -- that was about when I started to get burned out on the Intellivision homebrew scene, with so many releases coming out (many of them piecemeal) and not a lot of urge to play them, especially since none of my Intellivisions are working 100%. I'd like to get back into it.

[IntyFanMatt]

6 hours ago, thegoldenband said:

Yeah, still not the biggest fan of this game, despite the excellent production values. It's not a question of disliking hard games or needing to "get good" -- I've made it through a few loops, after all, which is more than enough to form an opinion. I just find that it doesn't build fast enough, and the gameplay drags.

 

Will have to try Mystic Castle. I think I bought the board but never did anything with it -- that was about when I started to get burned out on the Intellivision homebrew scene, with so many releases coming out (many of them piecemeal) and not a lot of urge to play them, especially since none of my Intellivisions are working 100%. I'd like to get back into it.

Well...I would highly recommend you try Mystic Castle, especially if you dislike the slower speed of Thunder Castle.  You can choose up to 4 different speeds...just put it on the fastest speed and have a blast!  I guarantee you will like it much better than TC.  ?

Edited February 17, 2021 by IntyFanMatt

[Redrunner22]

I liked the nuts and bolts they used to create this game. Its stock to alot of adventure game ideas. Dragons wizards and demons are alot in modern rpgs they were ground breaking these games mostly by experiment and trial and error. Nobody can understand what it took to program no much less how a child born yesterday knew what a old car from 1950s feels like. It carry the idea of style forward to what we look for in fantasy games. After final fantasy for new nobody can fathom what a masterpiece this truly was.

[+JasonlikesINTV]

Upgrading from Thunder Castle to Mystic Castle:

 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Thunder Castle is currently my favorite Intellivision game. Must of the strategies listed to play are bang on. The Lantern took a bit to figure out, but this is how it actually seems to work. You have to activate it like some of the other power ups, but you only do so once energized as it doesn't activate automatically. So you collect the lantern, then get energized and then press the button to make it last roughly 2x longer than normal. 

 

The first time through the castle maze with the wizards is tricky, but having the grail and or crown is key. Also, don't try and focus on taking them out at the same time. Focus on just one wizard first, leaving the other in the Green state. This makes is much easier since the one you leave along will remain at a slower speed and be the easiest to avoid until you have the other taken out. With the demons on the 3rd level, I usually find it best to get that grail whenever you can and just keep moving. The demons tend to cluster up together as they follow you around the maze so it becomes easier to take a few of them out at the same time. But similar strategy to the wizards is to whittle them down so you aren't trying to fight 2 or 3 red enemies at the same time, but just one if you can.

 

The key... it was mentioned someone discovered you can go through walls with it. I think this is a glitch and you are only meant to go through the sections that appear and disappear. The going through walls thing, I've only had it happen on the 2nd level with the castle maze and only happen in a few places. Another interesting (bug), is that I've found you can frequently go through walls when energized as well, but again this mainly only seems to occur on the castle maze stages. So yeah, the the going through walls with the key I do NOT think is intended.