Ultima VI: The False Prophet

[Christophero Sly]

As I mentioned in one of the earlier replies, I think the speed of your machine may be having an effect on the time-frame of the game.

It very much sounds like something is awry, I don't remember this being an issue when I played Ultima VII. You certainly should not have to spend so much time on managing the food. I would guess this is some sort of computer speed issue.

I probably am underestimating the effects of game speed, but honestly, I have it dialed in about where I think it should be. In fact, it's running much slower than it could be. I haven't noticed anything else related to the passage of time being amiss in the game. The night/day cycle seems right, generous even, and the NPC's move at what I think is an appropriate pace. I imagine it's running a bit faster than what your average 386 was able to deliver in '92, but if the game ran any slower, I would find it unplayable. If that's the alternative, then I guess I'll just accept the constant feeding. Actually, the game is so good, I'm willing to accept it anyway, and the truth is, riding around on my magic carpet, hunting wild game, has become one of my favorite things to do in the game.

 

If you like the game enough, you should VERY much try the Serpent Isle sequal. They basically fix everything that I thought was wrong with Ultima 7. The portraits are night and day better...

 

Here's a quick image I found off the net. Don't be too upset to look at it, it's VERY early in the game, so you're not seeing a spoiler or anything. The portraits of the NPCs are much more detailed.

 

 

Also, I seem to remember that all the complaints that people had with Ultima 7's interface were also fixed in Ultima 7 Part II. Magic also plays a much bigger part in U7P2, and while the interface is the same, I found the sequal to have slightly better graphics too.

 

As far as the fighting goes... I've learned to appreciate the new "real time" fighting of U7 than what was in U6. Understand though that I think Ultima 6 was probably the first ultima game I played, and then I think I messed around with 4 and 5 at some point but never really got very far.

 

You'll REALLY like 7p2 if you enjoyed (or are enjoying) 7.

For nostalgia's sake, I plan to at least playthrough Ultima II right after VII, but VII is so good that, afterwards, I don't think I'll be able to stop myself from diving right back into U7p2.

 

I wonder if I'll ever get back to my 360? Oh well, the downtime is probably good for it anyway.

 

Don't feel bad. When I was like... 13-15... pretty much every single game I got was pirated. I even ran a BBS with hundreds of megs of pirated games that I basically gave away like crazy. I'm different now of course, and once games started coming on CDs... it became different, I actually wanted the CD, I had a job, and could now afford to buy the CD games...

 

I just bought Rosetta Stone Latin American Spanish 1-5... just blew $579 on it... sucks, but I'm really big on PAYING for software now. I've been like that since I got my first job and could actually afford to buy games.

I do feel bad that much of my gaming history was tainted in this manner, but at that age, I had no real conception that what I was doing was wrong, so I don't feel any real guilt about it. These days, I'm like you. If I plan to use it, I plan to pay for it. I probably take things too far in that direction, truth be told.

 

You might want to take a look at Exult and see if you get the same results.

Thanks. I didn't realize what Exult really was when I began this playthrough. I thought it was just a front end to get U7 running on modern hardware, but I now see that it adds a lot of neat features to the game, like a key ring system, some sort of stand-in for the turn-based combat system of previous Ultimas, and best of all, a "Use Food" command. It pretty much addresses all my complaints. It probably sets the optimal speed too. I wish I would have investigated it a bit more before I started playing because I'm too far along to want to change things by switching to Exult now.

[gdement]

Ditto the other comments that I don't remember food being much of a problem, so if you've got the speed in the high 386/low 486 range than I'm not sure why it's getting out of hand.

 

I wouldn't feed each person as soon as they ask for food. Make them wait for dinner.

 

 

Exult might be good.. I've always been resistant to it because I prefer to play the original "real" version of the game.

Edited March 3, 2010 by gdement

[gdement]

 

Oh, my, a Solutions manual. I would not be able to play the games with that! I've always been adamantly opposed to "cheating" while playing games. Very rarely have I looked online for help and only after being stuck for a period of time. Oftentimes this resulted in my learning about bugs in games, such as with Stonekeep. I don't often go back and play games a second time, but I could see using a strategy guide at that point to discover all the secrets a game is keeping from you. Most things I tend to discover on my own since I spend a lot of time exploring, but you always miss something.

 

..Al

 

 

Al, I totally agree. I think I'm in a different state of mind though since I've never really played the older Ultima games before. For me, playing the early games (1-3) would be pretty boring for me. I want to play them regardless, and figured the way to get through them sooner is to use the walkthroughs as I get stuck. This will prevent me from languishing in a game that I'm having trouble getting excited about anyway.

 

Ultima 1 is pretty dead simple as I recall. I played that as a kid using a borrowed disk. I got very close to beating it and don't remember hitting any roadblocks. I think all I had left was to kill the boss.

 

I think it's odd that I end up flying in space in many of the early ones, but whatever.

It's kind of cool I think. It doesn't fit the later games but it's classic ridiculousness for an old RPG.

Ultima 4 seemed to establish a completely different game series with a more sensible and civilized world. The contrast makes old Sosaria look like a wild and interesting place.

[+remowilliams]

Exult might be good.. I've always been resistant to it because I prefer to play the original "real" version of the game.

Exult itself is an engine for executing the actual 'real' version of the game using the data files, plot, etc. from an original U7/Serpent install. There are some separate add ons available.

[johnny_boy]

Exult was my first exposure to Ultima VII, a few years ago, and it felt like it was supposed to - none of the legacy problems and all of part 2's welcomed additions. I appreciate its open world and no-nonsense combat system. Playing Baldur's Gate later on felt like a step back in some ways. I really dislike Dungeons & Dragons stats system, and the auto-leveling feature always left me with a nagging doubt that I was being had, by not exploiting all options available to me.

Edited March 3, 2010 by johnny_boy

[gdement]

Exult might be good.. I've always been resistant to it because I prefer to play the original "real" version of the game.

Exult itself is an engine for executing the actual 'real' version of the game using the data files, plot, etc. from an original U7/Serpent install. There are some separate add ons available.

Sure, but the code is different, so it's not the "real" version. I'm sure by now it's probably very accurate and has some improvements, but probably not anything I care about as I never had any problem with the original. If I ever play the game again I'll probably look at it though.

[Christophero Sly]

 

Despite a completely crappy combat system, a clunky interface, and my seriously gluttonous companions, that was the best RPG I've ever played. Ultima V will always be my favorite in the series for nostalgic reasons, but there's no denying the brilliance of VII. I've never played an RPG that cohesive. I can't get over how massive the game was. I probably only saw half of it. I know I missed at least three whole dungeons and large areas on the continent went unexplored. I saw many interesting things while zooming by on my magic carpet. I assumed the plot would eventually take me to those places, but it never did. It probably does if you spend the time to complete all the subplots, but you could literally spend weeks doing that. Once it seemed that I was on the main plot thread, I pretty much rode it out right to the end. Also, it was the best leveling-up system I've ever experienced. I didn't have to dedicate any time to grinding. It all came completely natural.

[gdement]

Awesome! You certainly beat my time.

The detail in the world really is amazing. There is a lot of side-stuff you don't have to do.

For example, I once found the Unicorn, but that wasn't on my "real" save. Turns out that whole cave is extra.

 

I remember reading about some inaccessible area of the map somewhere, and even that area contains items apparently related to a subplot. The game is just loaded with details like that.

When I played it, I didn't pay much attention to the main quest, I was just wandering around the world basically hanging out. It was the most immersive game world I had seen.

 

It's the type of game that I think is only possible when the person who owns the company is also personally attached to the game. Under EA ownership, U6 and U7 would have shipped 6 months earlier and been much less interesting.

 

 

I don't remember getting that ending screen. Actually, I don't remember the ending at all.

I did eventually beat it but it took 3 computers and a few years to happen. I wonder if it kept track of time through that savefile, or if it thought I beat it in "only" the time on the last computer. Either way, my "accomplishment" screen would be pretty embarrassing to compare with yours.

 

 

If you haven't looked at it already, you might enjoy this. I certainly did:

http://www.it-he.org/ultima7.htm

[82-T/A]

 

Despite a completely crappy combat system, a clunky interface, and my seriously gluttonous companions, that was the best RPG I've ever played. Ultima V will always be my favorite in the series for nostalgic reasons, but there's no denying the brilliance of VII. I've never played an RPG that cohesive. I can't get over how massive the game was. I probably only saw half of it. I know I missed at least three whole dungeons and large areas on the continent went unexplored. I saw many interesting things while zooming by on my magic carpet. I assumed the plot would eventually take me to those places, but it never did. It probably does if you spend the time to complete all the subplots, but you could literally spend weeks doing that. Once it seemed that I was on the main plot thread, I pretty much rode it out right to the end. Also, it was the best leveling-up system I've ever experienced. I didn't have to dedicate any time to grinding. It all came completely natural.

 

 

Ok, NOW you've got to play Ultima 7 Part 2... there's no time better than now to get right into it... either that, or play Forge of Virtue (I think the add-on for U7). You'll really be pleased with Part 2. I really learned to appreciate it. One thing that's a big change from U7 and the rest... in Ultima 7p2, you have less freedom. You're basically "trapped" in areas or stages more or less because I think they want you to complete the sub-plots. As you said... you could just fly around and saw a bunch of stuff... that was the same feeling I got when playing Ultima 7 as well. With U7p2, the landscape is probably not necessarily as vast, but you are unable to access certain areas unless you're there to complete that quest or plot. I don't remember the name of the city... maybe Magencia or something (but I could just be nuts). I remember the only way to get there was through a portal or SOMETHING, and that was only after you completed another "stage". Then in order to get off that island, you had to complete that quest as well. I BELIEVE however, that once you completed the quest on that island, you could more or less come and go as you pleased to that island and the original area. You had to fight to get to new areas though. It wasn't as simple as hopping on a magic carpet and flying around.

 

Awesome! You certainly beat my time.

The detail in the world really is amazing. There is a lot of side-stuff you don't have to do.

For example, I once found the Unicorn, but that wasn't on my "real" save. Turns out that whole cave is extra.

 

I remember reading about some inaccessible area of the map somewhere, and even that area contains items apparently related to a subplot. The game is just loaded with details like that.

When I played it, I didn't pay much attention to the main quest, I was just wandering around the world basically hanging out. It was the most immersive game world I had seen.

 

It's the type of game that I think is only possible when the person who owns the company is also personally attached to the game. Under EA ownership, U6 and U7 would have shipped 6 months earlier and been much less interesting.

 

 

I don't remember getting that ending screen. Actually, I don't remember the ending at all.

I did eventually beat it but it took 3 computers and a few years to happen. I wonder if it kept track of time through that savefile, or if it thought I beat it in "only" the time on the last computer. Either way, my "accomplishment" screen would be pretty embarrassing to compare with yours.

 

 

If you haven't looked at it already, you might enjoy this. I certainly did:

http://www.it-he.org/ultima7.htm

 

If I finished now, it would say "Congratulations, you beat the game in 19 years, 1 month, and 10 days!!!"

[Albert]

If I finished now, it would say "Congratulations, you beat the game in 19 years, 1 month, and 10 days!!!"

Now that would be a picture worthy of sending to Lord British!

 

..Al

[Christophero Sly]

If you haven't looked at it already, you might enjoy this. I certainly did:

http://www.it-he.org/ultima7.htm

Those are some funny exploits. Clever too. I like his trick for breaking the bank at the casino, especially the part where he has to cast "Mass Might" just to be able to carry all his winnings back to his ship.

 

It's the type of game that I think is only possible when the person who owns the company is also personally attached to the game. Under EA ownership, U6 and U7 would have shipped 6 months earlier and been much less interesting.

I agree. Without Garriot's involvement, I doubt the game would have been anything special.

 

Ok, NOW you've got to play Ultima 7 Part 2... there's no time better than now to get right into it... either that, or play Forge of Virtue (I think the add-on for U7). You'll really be pleased with Part 2.

I'm sure you're right; I should move right on to pt.2. But having just played two of the biggest games in the series, I'm at risk of getting burned out. Before that happens, I want to take a side trip back to Ultima II, which I've wanted to replay for a very long time. Actually, I've already started; I'm about a quarter of the way through it. I'd forgotten how much UII makes you grind it out. DosBox is a big help there though because you can crank the CPU speed up to about 200 times normal and quickly respawn all the monsters on the world map. I don't consider that cheating because I'd be doing that anyway, just very, very slowly.

[gdement]

Before that happens, I want to take a side trip back to Ultima II, which I've wanted to replay for a very long time. Actually, I've already started; I'm about a quarter of the way through it. I'd forgotten how much UII makes you grind it out. DosBox is a big help there though because you can crank the CPU speed up to about 200 times normal and quickly respawn all the monsters on the world map. I don't consider that cheating because I'd be doing that anyway, just very, very slowly.

I had an impossible time with Ultima II. This was on a friend's U1-3 Trilogy set for the Apple II. We ended up just playing Ultimas 1 and 3 because neither of us could figure out how to find or buy enough food to survive in U2 at the start of the game. I guess we were doing something wrong, because people certainly have pulled it off.

[Christophero Sly]

Before that happens, I want to take a side trip back to Ultima II, which I've wanted to replay for a very long time. Actually, I've already started; I'm about a quarter of the way through it. I'd forgotten how much UII makes you grind it out. DosBox is a big help there though because you can crank the CPU speed up to about 200 times normal and quickly respawn all the monsters on the world map. I don't consider that cheating because I'd be doing that anyway, just very, very slowly.

I had an impossible time with Ultima II. This was on a friend's U1-3 Trilogy set for the Apple II. We ended up just playing Ultimas 1 and 3 because neither of us could figure out how to find or buy enough food to survive in U2 at the start of the game. I guess we were doing something wrong, because people certainly have pulled it off.

Indeed. Surviving the first 20 minutes of the game basically comes down to luck. I can only manage to survive if I choose the thief class and crank my agility score way up. That way you can steal your food from the restaurant in Port Bonifice (Avatar!). The game also starts you off with enough gold to buy a decent weapon. An added bonus of a high initial agility score is that this weapon can be a sword, which makes life marginally easier. The key in this early phase of the game, before it grinds you down by attrition, is getting a blue tassel, so you can board a frigate. Once you have a frigate, you can pretty much lay waste to any monster you encounter. Life gets significantly easier thereafter, but it will still take hours and hours of grinding to get all the equipment you need to complete the quest.

 

It's interesting to experience this game again from the context of having played and been immersed in the games that followed it. Origin's attempts to retcon UII into the whole Avatar mythology were only ever partially successful. I don't think they should have even tried. I think UII is a compelling story on it's own. Granted, there's not a whole lot to the story, and obviously there's really no in-game narrative, but the documentation presents a decent backstory, and over the course of the game, the plot is revealed through the action.

 

It feels to me like an alternate-reality type of story, one in which the Hero (presumably the individual who will become the Avatar) has been recruited to save a doomed future from the dominion of an unconquerable evil by returning to the primordial past and destroying that evil at its genesis. By destroying the evil before it grows to dominate the future, the Hero unavoidably alters that future, so that not only does he destroy the ancient evil, he destroys everything that would have come after, including himself. The moment the he destroys that evil in the primordial past, the universe of Ultima II ceases to exist, as if it never happened. In the new reality that is created in the wake of the events in Ultima II, that is, the reality of the subsequent games, the Hero is free to eventually emerge as the Avatar. Ultima II is really self-contained in this respect, with no bearing on the games that follow it.

 

Viewed in this way, the most interesting part of the Ultima II story is that the Hero must be aware of the fact that if his quest succeeds, this will be the outcome. In fact, by the end of the quest, the Hero has probably come to rely on this knowledge, and to see it as a sort of salvation because over the course of the game, desperate circumstance has evidently compelled the Hero to abandon virtue and abide by that flawed creed, "the ends justify the means", leading him to commit what by the standards of the Avatar would be considered inexcusable acts, ranging from petty theft (stealing food) all the way to heinous murder (killing guards for keys). As he nears his objective, the Hero, tortured by the knowledge of what he has done, probably cares little for the future he set out to save, or I guess, remake. In the end, the determination to erase himself and his numerous iniquities from existence is what I see driving the Hero on.

 

I think that makes a more interesting story than Origin's clumsy attempts to fit Ultima II into the themes of the games that came after it.

[Goochman]

Before that happens, I want to take a side trip back to Ultima II, which I've wanted to replay for a very long time. Actually, I've already started; I'm about a quarter of the way through it. I'd forgotten how much UII makes you grind it out. DosBox is a big help there though because you can crank the CPU speed up to about 200 times normal and quickly respawn all the monsters on the world map. I don't consider that cheating because I'd be doing that anyway, just very, very slowly.

I had an impossible time with Ultima II. This was on a friend's U1-3 Trilogy set for the Apple II. We ended up just playing Ultimas 1 and 3 because neither of us could figure out how to find or buy enough food to survive in U2 at the start of the game. I guess we were doing something wrong, because people certainly have pulled it off.

 

Find McDonnell's- easy to steal food. After a few go rounds you should be good to fight.

 

Hard thing with U2 is it requires stat building - that is only accomplished via 'The Hotel' and lots of gold/luck. Otherwise U2 was the first one for me and I still love it. I filled the oceans with ships and the land with horses/planes passing time until U3 came out.

 

Having Planets and such was a bonus

[Christophero Sly]

 

Ultima II doesn't get the love she deserves, but there's one thing she will always have over her siblings--an epic final brawl.