Due to lack of sleep. Arcadians.

[dwhyte]

*sigh* Can we get back on track here?

 

I, for one, would like Pete to continue his work on this.

[TMR]

Many times it depends on the attitude of some of the C64 guys entering the forum here, whether a discussion gets f*cked up.

 

...so, please remember: attitude

 

There are several Atarians who need to remember that too, otherwise Albert wouldn't be locking them out of the discussions rather than the C64 people - calling others a freak is part of that attitude as well since it's offensive to some people and that has been stated very clearly in the past. Remember, as the saying goes it takes two to tango so your comments shouldn't just be aimed at one of the dancers.

 

Over the years i've signed up to several 8-bit message boards with exactly the same approach as i use here (that generally being "i like this machine, i prefer the C64") and this is literally the only one where it's somehow a problem on a regular basis.

[analmux]

Sorry for getting off-topic again.

 

There are several Atarians who need to remember that too, otherwise Albert wouldn't be locking them out of the discussions rather than the C64 people...

 

Well, that's just what you think is Albert's reason. No 100% certainty there. In reality, many posts escaped the dance and were not noticed, and many of those posts were coming from C64 related guys.

 

 

...calling others a freak is part of that attitude as well since it's offensive to some people and that has been stated very clearly in the past.

 

Well, just talking about this case in specific. No one specific was mentioned, so there wasn't any personal attack. It just depends on who feels addressed as a 'C64 freak'. In fact there's some sense of truth in it too, so those mentioning C64 freaks were right. Some of the C64 fans indeed just act like a freak, by long not all of them though....but the freaks just poison the atmosphere for the rest of them.

 

But, in many other cases, it's just a case of arguable personality. Actually, according to what I see here, there is quite a number of C64 guys with a "You're always wrong and I'm always right" kind of attitude.

 

 

Remember, as the saying goes it takes two to tango so your comments shouldn't just be aimed at one of the dancers.

 

Placing it into the right context, many times (refering to 'the other thread') someone new from the 'c64 camp' entered, just to add bullying (or alike) comments. When the ball gets rolling, of course some atarians will also feel challenged to put some crap in the discussion....but who started? Many times it was a C64 freak.

 

 

Over the years i've signed up to several 8-bit message boards with exactly the same approach as i use here (that generally being "i like this machine, i prefer the C64") and this is literally the only one where it's somehow a problem on a regular basis.

 

So, you've already made up your conclusion that it's the Atarian's fault, isn't it? Or am I wrong here?

 

 

But, let's discuss this further on YouTube....I mean: the a8 vs c64 section...at, least, let's try to get back on topic.

[Mclaneinc]

> Now it seems that same code will run stuff like Alien 8

 

yes, so what, this is not stand alone atari game...

 

You're not getting the point are you? This isn't a competition If it's so easy to do, which we both know it is, where are all these games to download? Why not just give someone else your conversion routines and a lot of the beeb catalogue could be on A8 already.

 

I'm done.

 

 

Pete

 

Sorry to hear Pete, I understand your frustration, I can never understand why people who are watching a person doing a project for themselves feel the need to 'pick' at it. Not only does it sidetrack a perfectly good thread but as can be seen from the rest of this thread it starts the turn of the thread into bickering and ill feeling.

 

Also, can we check the 'machine' bickering at the door, fanboy status is s sorry sight indeed, I have a genuine love of quite a few machines I also have preferences ie I like the C64 for music and some shooters but I adore the Atari for jumpman, spelunker and Bruce lee ie I love both machines. Having snide comments about a persons preferences is just infantile and should have no place in here.

[+therealbountybob]

I'll be glad for any new games for the Atari. Even though we have Galaxian and Galactic Chase I really enjoyed playing the Apple II port of Galaxian last year as it was challenging and atmospheric. Keep up the good work PeteD

[Irgendwer]

 

You're right that there are games that don't push the c64 hardware but I can't really think of any that I'd enjoy porting, I never liked Driller, didn't play Bard's Tale (maybe I'll give it a play, see if it inspires me) Stuntcar Racer might be a possibility but I think someone is already working on it?

 

 

AFAIK nobody works serious on Stuntcar Racer or Revs. Since 'Revs' comes from the BBC, what about this title?

 

BTW: Don't give to much on conflicts with other members here. There are some which also had their problems with others before the 'invasion of the dark side'. I have to say that I also have my problems with some attitudes in some posts (not mainly yours but STEs - he nicely introduced himself). In general, it seems to be a good advice to aspire calmness.

[+Philsan]

@ Pete.

IIRC, months ago we were talking about a tennis game.

A8 software library miss many sport games...

BTW, is beautiful Stadium 64 website closed forever?

[PeteD]

@ Pete.

IIRC, months ago we were talking about a tennis game.

A8 software library miss many sport games...

BTW, is beautiful Stadium 64 website closed forever?

 

Like I said earlier, I'm working on a few C64 ports already, Exploding Fist, Paradroid, Delta and I've got my ever growing multi-purpose PC app that'll do most of the graphical work for those to finish (does file conversions, colour mapping/remapping, sprite/tile grabbing, level editing, a G2F style function, etc). The tennis thing and now possibly Stuntcar Racer are on my list too for somewhere down the line, presuming I feel inclined to do much more hard work.

 

I just had a crack at this beeb stuff the other night because I couldn't sleep and was too "brain tired" to think of code I needed for something on Paradroid so I started to read up on beeb coding to refresh my memory. Wrote some code, ripped some files from beeb disks, checked what was going on using BeebEm (windows bbc emulator) and hacked some code together on A8. Surprisingly I found Arcadians was displaying the title/options screen. I checked what it was waiting for (a key press but with a delay/timer added to it), made sure it was getting what it wanted from there and suddenly the game was running.

 

All of that was fun. Last night I should have been finishing off the screen drawing stuff and it would've been pretty much a fully playable game. Instead xxl (for whatever reason) posts a more advanced version than I'd got to at that point which kind of makes it pointless me continuing or at least takes away all the fun I was having. I wasn't doing it for any kudos, but then I'm told by some people I need to prove myself and my abilities on this forum or the A8 community at large. I now get the feeling even if I finish Arcadians the attitude of some will be, "well, xxl did it as well and did it first". No doubt that's not the feeling of most, but it's not most who have no respect for me.

 

*Edit*

Sorry, Stadium64 afaik is being releaunched soon but there are a couple of older hosted versions on s64.emuunlim.com and www.stadium64.com

 

 

Pete

Edited March 5, 2010 by PeteD

[+Philsan]

Looking forward to see Stadium64 relaunch.

 

Unfortunately, unless you avoid to sleep, you cannot complete A8 games library.

 

Some games are more demanding than other.

I think a tennis game (only a title screen, a court, two multicolor players and a ball) could use A8 streghts (many vertical colors, speed) and avoid weaknesses (few hardware sprites).

One person could design a G2F title screen, another a G2F court, another sprites (I would design the ball )...

 

 

[TMR]

AFAIK nobody works serious on Stuntcar Racer or Revs. Since 'Revs' comes from the BBC, what about this title?

 

From memory, it'd be better to convert from the C64 since Revs+ has more tracks - there's already a Plus/4 version based on the C64 code which doesn't use hardware sprites so all since the 264 series don't have any, so if that were pulled apart and moved over the players could be given over to enhancing the status graphics.

[dwhyte]

... I can never understand why people who are watching a person doing a project for themselves feel the need to 'pick' at it ...

 

I know this pain all to well. It killed the one major A8 project I had planned for myself (Wizardry). Because of it all, I was extremely pissed off and just plain deleted the project folder, later summing it up as an accidental 'rm -frv *', and then returned back to my writing.

 

Don't be discouraged, or stop working on this because of anything I said, Pete. I know I can be a hard-ass sometimes, but being a discourager was not on my above words' agenda. In my view, they were said to spur you to finish what you've started here...

Edited March 5, 2010 by dwhyte

[TMR]

It just depends on who feels addressed as a 'C64 freak'. In fact there's some sense of truth in it too, so those mentioning C64 freaks were right. Some of the C64 fans indeed just act like a freak, by long not all of them though....but the freaks just poison the atmosphere for the rest of them.

 

That's akin to insulting every Ford owner because someone in a Fiesta nearly knocked you over... people have said they find the term "C64 freaks" to be offensive, so anyone continuing to use it in reference to other people (you didn't, i wasn't referring to that particular context) are either being ignorant or deliberately antagonistic.

 

Over the years i've signed up to several 8-bit message boards with exactly the same approach as i use here (that generally being "i like this machine, i prefer the C64") and this is literally the only one where it's somehow a problem on a regular basis.

 

So, you've already made up your conclusion that it's the Atarian's fault, isn't it? Or am I wrong here?

 

The "already" makes it sound like i've jumped to my conclusion rapidly, but i've been a member of AA for seven years now and am basing what i've said on that significant amount of experience. And no, i didn't say it was the Atarian's fault because that's a blanket term for the whole and that isn't the case, but some Atarians feel the need to put the boot into the C64 at every single opportunity even to the point of making their own. Being on the receiving end of that majorly sucks donkeys.

 

But, let's discuss this further on YouTube....I mean: the a8 vs c64 section...at, least, let's try to get back on topic.

 

Some of the people posting comments to YouTube are as mad as a slapped bag of squirrels and i'm scared of them... =-)

[JamesD]

I had to check the title of the thread to be sure this wasn't another Atari vs C64 thread.

[Shannon]

/me checks forum name to make sure it doesn't say "Jaguar"...

[Heaven/TQA]

/me checks forum name to make sure it doesn't say "Jaguar"...

 

aehm... just coming back from CeBIT and being off 1 week due to preparing the show... and we are again in the same discussions?

 

If Pete wants to do that he can do whatever he wants? If emkay wants to do pokey music he can do that... if me want to code a pong game... I can do that...

 

the difference is... (at least I got the feeling) if I would code a Pong game... noone would call me "aaah again a Pong game...) and all the other bla bla stuff... so why here for Pete? or TMR? or STE?

 

I mean... sometimes it is simply language (like xxl coming from Poland and many there do not speak proper english in terms of "reading between the line") esp when talking to the guys from the "drinking island"

 

but guys...why is there always this kind of discussion starting again and again over?

 

I guess XXL did no offense here or attacked Pete in a way... and for TMR... how many A8 projects did he finished??? (just compared to me ) but I never got attacked because Beyond Evil is delayed for years or Gridrunner... but mainly the c64 guys are? just my 2 cents...

[PeteD]

I think the problem is I may have inadvertently stepped on a few toes, especially posting a 10 minute job of Alien 8 running on A8. I didn't know xxl was working on it and if (as I said earlier) he'd just PMd me and told me what he was working on I'd have stayed clear of even looking at it or anything else he listed.

 

What did annoy me was there was no need to come into my thread where I'm showing daily progress on porting a beeb game and go BLAM! there, I've already done this. It's taken all the motivation away and certainly all the fun out of doing it. Maybe xxl thought I was taking the piss when I posted a link to his port of the Apple Galaxian but I was merely pointing out that why was it ok for him to port a galaxian to the A8, but when I do it there are already too many?

 

My reaction to the whole rep point thing wasn't one of, "oh no, I don't have more rep points than this or that guy", it was based on how I and other "c64 guys" feel on this forum. I'm told there is no "us vs them" but then in the same post I'm told I'm a C64 guy who doesn't have any respect on this forum and I have to earn it. This aimed at me in a rather rude manner in the very thread I AM proving I know what I'm doing.

 

The whole "C64 freaks" thing is annoying because although I'm more known in the scene for C64 stuff I've worked on pretty much every machine in one manner or another since the very early 80s as have probably most of the people labeled with the C64 badge.

 

I'm hoping those are my last words on the matter. I've not done any more coding on this stuff since (apart from checking if Starship Command, another great beeb game, works. And it does) but I will no doubt resume it at some point but my inclination atm is it's not worth bothering.

 

And please, if anyone has a problem with what I've just said then you're probably just misunderstanding my sentiments so don't bother to reply if only for the sake of my sanity

 

 

Pete

[Heaven/TQA]

fine by me but do you see any chance for running Elite? I know it is basic+inline ass but?

[PeteD]

Elite? Wrathchild has already done it There's a thread around somewhere. I think there was a bug left to fix? but it looks great.

 

*edit*

Found it

 

 

Pete

Edited March 6, 2010 by PeteD

[Wrathchild]

Trickier as the game loads overlay code between being docked and flight, therefore you need to simulate disk access etc too, which I think is what xxl has covered? But, by asking - aren't you creating a scenario for me to think 'why bother'

[Wrathchild]

Ha, Pete got there first! Can't type quick on my HTC.

[emkay]

Ha, Pete got there first! Can't type quick on my HTC.

 

 

Any chance of binding double speed RMT into those games?

[PeteD]

No reason why not, at least in theory. Beeb generally uses 0-$8000 and without patching it needs some addresses near the end of ram for ROM calls so RAM isn't a problem. The only caveat is CPU time. Beeb is already faster than A8 at 2mhz Starship Command already runs visibly slower on A8) and while you can claw a bit of that back in some cases (not everything is done through ROM calls) by making the ROM replacement routines as specific to the task as possible eating a chunk of CPU with a music routine may slow things down a bit.

 

There's also the redrawing/tearing/glitching problem when using more CPU. No double buffering on beeb means you'd generally do a 2600 style raster chase (or in this case outrun) to write stuff to the screen before the raster catches up with the draw routines. Any added CPU usage will knock that out even further as well.

 

 

Pete

Edited March 6, 2010 by PeteD

[PeteD]

I "exploded"

 

I don't know if this is a good thing or not considering what my main A8 project is

 

Also has the beginnings of some sound code, explanation of which is in the youtube comments.

 

 

Pete

[Heaven/TQA]

I guess this is the BBC code? (refering to Beep... )

[PeteD]

I guess this is the BBC code? (refering to Beep... )

 

Of course I'm contemplating using this to get the logic for my stuff and then hack out the graphics/drawing routines/sound routines etc and just use things like sprite x/y and frame so my remake code knows what and where to draw but I think it might end up causing more problems than doing it from scratch. Also as far as I remember the beeb version plays differently to the C64 and it's the C64 version I fell in love with.

 

 

Pete