potatohead Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 (edited) So, how dependent is this artifacting on NTSC? Am I losing colors by playing Apple II games on my IIgs RGB monitor? You should see (if the program generates them) White, Black, Blue, Red, Green, Magenta. I don't recall if the GS mapped those to pixel colors. It's basically very dependent. Apples had no real color circuits, like we are used to seeing in other computers. All that was done was to output the color burst, so that the TV would turn on it's color circuits, leaving the small pixels to do the rest. Classic Woz hack! **If the programmer was bad ass, they could also use the odd bit pattern 1101 or 1011, draw every other "pixel" and get light pink, yellow, etc... A Beagle Brothers painter program did that, exploiting the ][ display to the max. Edited April 10, 2010 by potatohead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potatohead Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 (edited) http://www.downloads.reactivemicro.com/Public/Users/Grant_Stockley/Apple2MoreColorsBYTEJun1979.pdf http://www.applefritter.com/node/23880 http://www.scribd.com/doc/201423/Understanding-the-Apple-II-by-Jim-Sather-1983Quality-Software These should explain everything you need to know about colors on the ][ series Thanks for linking the BYTE article! I read that one as a kid, and have been artifacting on every machine I could, ever since! I'm printing that one out, just because. That is one of the cooler things about NTSC. One of these days, I've got to setup and do the PAL artifacting I've seen. Looks interesting, and one gets better resolution when doing it. Edited April 10, 2010 by potatohead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 I've had so-so luck on getting games to run on a IIgs. Many cracked games I have refuse to run. I also dislike having to go and change the speed on the IIgs every time I want to switch between IIe and IIgs games. I also think the IIe composite monitor is much better suited to IIe games than the IIgs RGB monitor. Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telengard Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 Early Ultima games that supported a Mockingboard, Echo II plus or Phasor sound card installed, those were really good. I also used to play Cavern Creatures (sorta like Caverns of Mars) alot and an early game called DogFight (good two player game) w/my brother. Cavern Creatures is one of my fav A2 games. Captain Goodnight is another A2 only game that is pretty good. ~telengard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 Anyone get ADTPRO to work with an Uther Ethernet card? I'm having issues... Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesD Posted April 11, 2010 Share Posted April 11, 2010 (edited) I've had so-so luck on getting games to run on a IIgs. Many cracked games I have refuse to run. I also dislike having to go and change the speed on the IIgs every time I want to switch between IIe and IIgs games. I also think the IIe composite monitor is much better suited to IIe games than the IIgs RGB monitor. Tempest Some of the copy protections depend on using the original II drive controller and drives. Just disable the internal controller and plug in the card. <edit> Some also depend on the setting of the video RAM mirroring but I can't remember how to change the setup. If you are going to be using old games a lot you can set the default speed to slow. The IIgs also has a composite output. I have mine hooked to a 19" LCD TV through the composite port. Edited April 11, 2010 by JamesD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 I've had so-so luck on getting games to run on a IIgs. Many cracked games I have refuse to run. I also dislike having to go and change the speed on the IIgs every time I want to switch between IIe and IIgs games. I also think the IIe composite monitor is much better suited to IIe games than the IIgs RGB monitor. Tempest Some of the copy protections depend on using the original II drive controller and drives. Just disable the internal controller and plug in the card. Some also depend on the setting of the video RAM mirroring but I can't remember how to change the setup. If you are going to be using old games a lot you can set the default speed to slow. The IIgs also has a composite output. I have mine hooked to a 19" LCD TV through the composite port. Yeah I suppose if you were really short of space and only had access to a IIgs that would work (I'm not sure how IIgs games work with a composite monitor however), but with Apple II's being ultra cheap there's no reason not to play the games on the original hardware. I tried going IIgs only for a short time and it didn't work well. Still can't get ADTPRO to work with the Uther Ethernet card. Maybe it's my firewall? Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuckleCat Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 I know this thread is sort of old, but being a big gamer on my Apple 2C decades ago, I just had to look over the old titles listed for some good memories. One thing though that I cannot believe is that none of you listed Black Magic. Seriously, guys, get it. Black Magic You won't be sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesD Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 Black Magic was available for several machines. I never got to see it myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax2069 Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 Karateka is a must, That was my first ever game on a computer (and the first time i ever used a computer), it was a IIe with a green screen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 Karateka is a must, That was my first ever game on a computer (and the first time i ever used a computer), it was a IIe with a green screen. Hmm, yeh karateka, it was weird, about that time, the Apple II line started to decline. And all sorts of disarray entered the market. Well I disposed of all my classic machines at the time, except the Amiga (for sale) and Apple II collection (not for sale).. BBS's also fell by the wayside too - about then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax2069 Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 Karateka is a must, That was my first ever game on a computer (and the first time i ever used a computer), it was a IIe with a green screen. Hmm, yeh karateka, it was weird, about that time, the Apple II line started to decline. And all sorts of disarray entered the market. Well I disposed of all my classic machines at the time, except the Amiga (for sale) and Apple II collection (not for sale).. BBS's also fell by the wayside too - about then. I think it was because the market was over saturated with so many different types of computers which hardly none was compatible with each other, unlike today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyranthraxus Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 Hmm, yeh karateka, it was weird, about that time, the Apple II line started to decline. And all sorts of disarray entered the market. Well I disposed of all my classic machines at the time, except the Amiga (for sale) and Apple II collection (not for sale).. IIRC, in its 100th issue, Computer Gaming World said that 1987 was the peak year for cross platform releases. After this year the PC became more and more dominant and fewer platforms received ports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 Hmm, yeh karateka, it was weird, about that time, the Apple II line started to decline. And all sorts of disarray entered the market. Well I disposed of all my classic machines at the time, except the Amiga (for sale) and Apple II collection (not for sale).. IIRC, in its 100th issue, Computer Gaming World said that 1987 was the peak year for cross platform releases. After this year the PC became more and more dominant and fewer platforms received ports. Interesting factoid you posted there. The pc really became popular when 3dfx released the first 3d chipset that had a good reputation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BydoEmpire Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 (edited) The pc really became popular when 3dfx released the first 3d chipset that had a good reputation.That's basically when PC gaming died for me. The era just before that - the early 90s - that was the best (strictly talking PC gaming, not Apple/c64/Amiga stuff). VGA and SoundBlaster were de facto standards. Games like X-Com, Civ, Doom/Quake, Wing Commander series, Ultima Underworld.. just so many amazing games in tons of different genres. Edited June 17, 2010 by BydoEmpire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AussieAtari Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 I loved my IIe & IIc when I bought them new "back in the day". Now I have a couple of each, plus a II+, all specced up to where I dreamed they would be back in the 80's. Favourite games: Karateka Lode Runner Choplifter Hitchikers Guide To The Galaxy All of which I still have on floppy and all work fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 The pc really became popular when 3dfx released the first 3d chipset that had a good reputation.That's basically when PC gaming died for me. The era just before that - the early 90s - that was the best (strictly talking PC gaming, not Apple/c64/Amiga stuff). VGA and SoundBlaster were de facto standards. Games like X-Com, Civ, Doom/Quake, Wing Commander series, Ultima Underworld.. just so many amazing games in tons of different genres. I think the thing that was bad (and often still is) is the linear gameplay of FMV-bloated titles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadmeow Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 When I upgraded from my Apple IIe to an Apple //gs, I had very few if any compatibility problems. However there is a setting in the control panel called something like "alternate display mode", which is designed to work with the few pieces of Apple II 8 bit software that might have problems on the IIgs. Among my favorite games were John Elway QB, (IIgs and IIe versions), GBA Basketball (IIe and later IIgs version), 4th and Inches (IIgs), International Hockey (IIe), Hardball (IIgs), Moebius (IIe), Castle Wolfenstein, Beyond Castle Wolfenstein, Mario Brothers. I must say that me and my friends spent many hours playing Castle Wolfenstein/Beyond Castle Wolfenstein, and many hours waiting for it to load as well. The Apple II versions of Wolfenstein were perfect, and very easy to control with the Apple II joystick having 2 buttons. If someone wants to do only 8 bit gaming, then an Apple IIc is the way to go. If you want the wider experience, an Apple IIgs (with a tiny Apple IIgs keyboard), and RGB monitor is the way to go. You can probably put 75 to 85% of the IIe games on 3.5 inch disks, which makes it much easier to use. One of the last versions of an Apple DOS I used, treated an 800K 3.5 floppy like 4 separate DOS 3.3 disks, and this basically let you use DOS 3.3 on a 3.5 inch disk, which is good, because many old DOS 3.3 games would not run under PRODOS or GSOS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercylon Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 Choplifter... was one of the first computer games I played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 So, how dependent is this artifacting on NTSC? Am I losing colors by playing Apple II games on my IIgs RGB monitor? You should see (if the program generates them) White, Black, Blue, Red, Green, Magenta. I don't recall if the GS mapped those to pixel colors. It's basically very dependent. Apples had no real color circuits, like we are used to seeing in other computers. All that was done was to output the color burst, so that the TV would turn on it's color circuits, leaving the small pixels to do the rest. Classic Woz hack! **If the programmer was bad ass, they could also use the odd bit pattern 1101 or 1011, draw every other "pixel" and get light pink, yellow, etc... A Beagle Brothers painter program did that, exploiting the ][ display to the max. The gs will correctly display the apple //e ][+ colors correctly on and rgb monitor. There is no mapping per'se, but colors will be represented as you'd expect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 The only real compatibility issues with the IIgs are for games that use illegal opcodes that aren't present in the upgraded chip or those that use that alternate page display mode (although I think that can be fixed). So far I've only run into a few retail games that won't work (Ms. Pac-Man and Moon Patrol come to mind), but many of my cracked games won't work because they used some sort of trickery that the IIgs doesn't like (some illegal opcode would be my guess). One of the popular menu systems that was used on many of my cracks doesn't show up either. It works, but the screen doesn't display it. Someone said that Double Hi-Res games (like the Sierra games) look funny on the RGB monitor but I couldn't see a difference. Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmel_andrews Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 I heard that Bubble Bobble was converted to the apple 2 (as i saw a file of it on one of those emulation sites (sorry can't remember which one) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 I heard that Bubble Bobble was converted to the apple 2 (as i saw a file of it on one of those emulation sites (sorry can't remember which one) It sure was: http://www.mobygames.com/game/apple2/bubble-bobble/screenshots Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Streck Posted August 31, 2010 Share Posted August 31, 2010 I see a lot of familiar titles in this thread. But what about the lesser-known games, the weird ones, splurted out by some eccentric bedroom programmer and then forgotten? Here are some of the ones I knew and loved. I've yet to find a single person besides myself that remembers them. I haven't seen them mentioned here - even in that long list that akator posted. And I'd bet that a lot of them were exclusive to the Apple II. Ankh You're an abstract geometric entity navigating through an abstract geometric world, avoiding abstract geometric enemies and solving logic puzzles. I never finished this game, but the environment is unforgettable. Flip Out My sister and I spent many spiteful hours on this game where all you do is mess with your opponent. The object is to get all your balls to the bottom first - and if you fail to do so before running out, you get to use your opponent's! Pieman Get filling. Bring filling to pie tray. Get cherry. Bring cherry to pie tray. Bring finished pie to pie-depository. Don't let pies fall off the conveyor. Simple, right? This was a game in the old arcade style, getting faster and faster until you died. Frenzy A simple game of evasion, but the terrifying voice samples and gameplay forever wedged it in my mind. Chrono Warrior This was a pretty ambitious game, combining different types of gameplay with a fun time-travel story. In the first level, you scrambled around a prehistoric mountain collecting pieces of your time-gate. In the second, you raced chariots at a Roman circus. In the third... well, I can't spoil the whole thing, can I? Paipec Catch the stuff that falls from the sky, using your four stacked platforms - but if you miss, you lose a platform and have less vertical surface area with which to catch something on the side. Just like Kaboom! for the Atari 2600, if you ever played that. Straightforward, nerve-wracking, and utterly addictive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesk Posted August 31, 2010 Share Posted August 31, 2010 I had a Laser 128/EX which was the second computer I learned to program for. Favs.. Strike Fleet Eamon Wraith: Devil's Demise Bolo Sneakers Had lots of fun shareware games too. Also had a few pirated games (Bolo, Sneakers, Starblazer, Hard Hat Mack) disks too that I got from my junior high. They had hidden messages on them that I found using some disk utilities. Copy Plus or something. I was a bored kid Wish I still had that Laser 128 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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