Death of Consoles?

[Tanooki]

It definitely IS a lot more like a PC, a big box lower end PC that someone happened to put a fairly solid (at release) video card into it. Couple that with less interesting iterations of last generations sequels and the entire mess turned me off dedicated consoles this generation as they offer nothing my 4 year old gaming computer can't already do better/match at 1080p already with the same exact third party titles for a lower cost through Steam as it is. IT's why my PS4 is back in the box and like new again with all the wrapping arond it, stuffed in a larger box already and up on ebay as I write this.

 

I'm done with home consoles for the reasons given here. The Switch stands alone as it can play console but it's just one badass handheld device. It gets right so much that even the better end of mobile tablet/phone fails at still trying to peddle the dodgy swipe controls or faking buttons/sticks miserably so on glass because otherwise you have to deal with bluetooth and pocketing a controller with you.

[+wongojack]

I thought the Onlive microconsole was pretty much awesomesauce when it was at its brief height.

[pacman000]

This is a very old story, and it never makes any sense. Consoles are dying? Oh, so that must mean video games as a whole are becoming less popular. What, no? The industry gets more revenue and more consumers every year, and has for the past 15-30 years? Oh, maybe it means that only console games are dying? Well, actually, they're much healthier than the sales figures for PC gaming products. Maybe it just means that consoles will be replaced by devices like the iPhone. Well... these are probably the same people who think the iPad is going to be everyone's primary computer in 10 years.

 

Why did someone suggest that? Well, I could be generous and say they're ignorantly recycling a story from the early 80s and 90s, when people thought PCs were the inevitable replacements for consoles. If I were less generous and more conspiratorial, I might say it's a FUD move on the part of a media who is losing more consumer attention to video games every year.

With all respect to Flojo...

[Flojomojo]

Or a soothsayer.

 

sooth sooth sooth

[Schizophretard]

As for Nintendo, the Switch is popular yes. But it's already no longer a console in the strictest terms. It's a high powered handheld that has the ability to be docked to your TV. And that's fine. At least it means the handheld industry is probably safe from this BS for a while longer. - not that it's immune to it by any means.

In the strictest terms none of them are no longer consoles since they aren't designed to be played on a CRT. However, the Switch,at least as of now, appears to be much more of a dedicated gaming machine since you can't do much else with it.

[youxia]

In the strictest terms none of them are no longer consoles since they aren't designed to be played on a CRT.

 

I'm your tedious friendly neighbourhood CRT fanatic but tbh I can not see the logic behind this definition.

[CMR]

I've been hearing this almost as long as I've been hearing that magazines, newspapers, and books are going away.

[Flojomojo]

With very few exceptions, I haven't bought paper magazines, newspapers, or books for myself in over a decade. I'm a big reader. I can access, carry, and collect so much more material in electronic forms. Make mine digital.

 

I don't know or particularly care if the "no console future" will happen, but I'm ready after the fatigue of chasing after so many consoles by this point in my middle age.

[CatPix]

 

I'm your tedious friendly neighbourhood CRT fanatic but tbh I can not see the logic behind this definition.

Ralph Baer defined the world "console" as a device made to display interactive content on an analog video device. Or something along those lines.

It's that logic that got most LCD/LED/VFD portable cames being called "electronic games" instead of video games since they didn't have a proper video display.

The line got blurred with handheld with their proprietary video display and it's now totally outdated with digital video.

[Video]

To be honest, when Ralph said "analog" I believe it was more an intent that it be a "completely randomized" display, rather than a display limited by predefined image elements. In this context, modern tv or something like game boy would still be " videogames" as the display is good what to display by each custom program, rather than just a bunch of static images.

 

Of course, this is the first generation of games that couldn't (without an adapter) be hooked to an analog old school crt, if you wanted to. At least in the early days, I know I played plenty of 360 on an old crt.

[0078265317]

Ya not going anywhere any time soon.  Untill I convince everybody in the world to eat healthy and exercise everyday and stop playing video games.  But that is never going to happen.

[Austin]

On 6/15/2019 at 3:42 AM, Video said:

To be honest, when Ralph said "analog" I believe it was more an intent that it be a "completely randomized" display, rather than a display limited by predefined image elements. In this context, modern tv or something like game boy would still be " videogames" as the display is good what to display by each custom program, rather than just a bunch of static images.

 

Drugs are bad, mmmmkay? 

[JeffVav]

Doesn't the fact that this thread was started nearly 10 years ago tell you all you need to know?

[Classic Pac]

This topic was started way back in 2010, how many consoles and handhelds come out since then? I really don't see any of them going away anytime soon, I can see the trend for streaming but the reality of your own ISP and Data Caps really don't make that possible. Most of this country barely gets 3MB service, there are parts where they are slowly stop using Dial Up for Cellphone Internet now. I do see a trend with the gaming companies trying to get the best graphics possible and try to draw PC gamers, but that is a whole other topic.

[digdugnate]

Given the overwhelming (in my opinion) success of the Nintendo Switch, I think we're good for the near future

[Flojomojo]

There is a kind of convergence happening, though. 

• Consoles are becoming more like PCs with their hard drives, demands for updates, increasing dependence on internet connections
• PCs are becoming more like consoles with same-day releases of multiplatform games, native controller support, shared web services for chat, streaming. Many Microsoft games are cross-play
• Mobile devices are stronger than ever, but "thanks" to microtransactions and in-app-purchases, have become their own thing to the degree that "mobile games" have a stigma. Multiplatform titles don't come out on mobile first as because of this. 
• the Nintendo Switch is a little of everything -- lots of online, lots of mobile, big complex games, but in an accessible package. 

I can accept the idea of games buying turning more like the music industry: subscriptions everywhere, but there are still lots of ways to buy your media if you really want to, despite the convenience the subscriptions offer. I'll be subscribed to PS+, EA Access, Xbox Game Pass, Nintendo Switch Online, GameClub, and Apple Arcade by the end of the year. I'm still spending a lot less money for a lot more entertainment than when I was buying one-offs. 

[+wongojack]

4 hours ago, Flojomojo said:

There is a kind of convergence happening, though. 

• Consoles are becoming more like PCs with their hard drives, demands for updates, increasing dependence on internet connections
• PCs are becoming more like consoles with same-day releases of multiplatform games, native controller support, shared web services for chat, streaming. Many Microsoft games are cross-play
• Mobile devices are stronger than ever, but "thanks" to microtransactions and in-app-purchases, have become their own thing to the degree that "mobile games" have a stigma. Multiplatform titles don't come out on mobile first as because of this. 
• the Nintendo Switch is a little of everything -- lots of online, lots of mobile, big complex games, but in an accessible package. 

I can accept the idea of games buying turning more like the music industry: subscriptions everywhere, but there are still lots of ways to buy your media if you really want to, despite the convenience the subscriptions offer. I'll be subscribed to PS+, EA Access, Xbox Game Pass, Nintendo Switch Online, GameClub, and Apple Arcade by the end of the year. I'm still spending a lot less money for a lot more entertainment than when I was buying one-offs. 

 

Maybe what we'll be buying in the future is a guarantee that current-gen entertainment will work.  That could be a service I subscribe to, or it could be that some sort of portal device that needs to be replaced every so often (about as often as your phone).  Sh!+ maybe it will be your phone!

 

[zzip]

5 hours ago, Flojomojo said:

Consoles are becoming more like PCs with their hard drives, demands for updates, increasing dependence on internet connections

to a point, but there are also stark differences.   Consoles are still tightly controlled, have fixed specs (to make optimization easier, and reduce the number of variations so that things are more likely to work out of the box).   That's the reason I stopped gaming on PC, I was tired of things not working and spending more time tweaking than playing. 

 

5 hours ago, Flojomojo said:

I can accept the idea of games buying turning more like the music industry: subscriptions everywhere, but there are still lots of ways to buy your media if you really want to, despite the convenience the subscriptions offer.

To me subscription means "We get your money whether we continue to produce quality content or not".   It erodes the power of the consumer.    I also buy most games on sale and would not save money with subscriptions.  

[Flojomojo]

 

1 hour ago, wongojack said:

Maybe what we'll be buying in the future is a guarantee that current-gen entertainment will work.  That could be a service I subscribe to, or it could be that some sort of portal device that needs to be replaced every so often (about as often as your phone).  Sh!+ maybe it will be your phone!

 

I'm pretty sure that's how developers and publishers would like it to be. Annual maintenance fees, just like when your workplace buys enterprise software. It's not necessarily reasonable to expect to pay a dollar one time and expect something to work forever. 

 

I wish I could remember if I bought the Simpsons Arcade game on PS3 or 360. It was offered for a while, then delisted shortly afterwards. I can't find it on my lists. It must have been like $14.99 at the time or otherwise not worth it, or I figured I'd just play the MAME ROM. Oh well. 

[spacecadet]

6 hours ago, Flojomojo said:

There is a kind of convergence happening, though. 

• Consoles are becoming more like PCs with their hard drives, demands for updates, increasing dependence on internet connections
• PCs are becoming more like consoles with same-day releases of multiplatform games, native controller support, shared web services for chat, streaming. Many Microsoft games are cross-play
• Mobile devices are stronger than ever, but "thanks" to microtransactions and in-app-purchases, have become their own thing to the degree that "mobile games" have a stigma. Multiplatform titles don't come out on mobile first as because of this. 
• the Nintendo Switch is a little of everything -- lots of online, lots of mobile, big complex games, but in an accessible package. 

I can accept the idea of games buying turning more like the music industry: subscriptions everywhere, but there are still lots of ways to buy your media if you really want to, despite the convenience the subscriptions offer. I'll be subscribed to PS+, EA Access, Xbox Game Pass, Nintendo Switch Online, GameClub, and Apple Arcade by the end of the year. I'm still spending a lot less money for a lot more entertainment than when I was buying one-offs. 

I think consoles have pretty much always been like PCs and vice versa. Both computers and consoles have changed over the years, but they've changed in largely the same ways. Neither used to come with hard drives or SSDs, for example; now both do. Neither used to be connected to the internet; now both are. Neither used to get games as online downloads through a service; now both do. Consoles have kind of always just been gaming-specialized computers; it's just that what that in itself means has changed over the years as computers have changed.

 

I guess my point is that consoles and computers have both changed a lot in absolute terms, but relative to each other, they have not. Nothing has really changed since the dawn of the industry in relative terms.

[Keatah]

6 hours ago, Flojomojo said:

• Mobile devices are stronger than ever, but "thanks" to microtransactions and in-app-purchases, have become their own thing to the degree that "mobile games" have a stigma. Multiplatform titles don't come out on mobile first as because of this. 

Not just a stigma, but a hate. For me at least. You will not find any mobile games on my phone. None. It's strictly an information portal or window on the web so to speak. A communications/information device and that's it. Well, there's the camera - but I consider that a utility function and part of the "communication section".

 

The only phone gaming I ever did (I swear it!) was like in the early days on motorazr or krazr. And that was limited to some java crap. It was like playing through a straw. Everything felt closed in and non-grand. Not like a PC at all.

 

And the "cringe & crawl under the desk" part was that I tried hard, real hard, to enjoy it. This back in 2005/2006. Today it's microtransactions and the inability to save a game for future play that turns me off.

 

With mobile I've always had to work around something and put in great effort, just to end up with mediocre results. With PC, I still put in great effort but in return get great results.

 

 

Edited July 1, 2019 by Keatah

[Flojomojo]

2 hours ago, Keatah said:

Not just a stigma, but a hate. For me at least. You will not find any mobile games on my phone. None. It's strictly an information portal or window on the web so to speak. A communications/information device and that's it. Well, there's the camera - but I consider that a utility function and part of the "communication section".

 

The only phone gaming I ever did (I swear it!) was like in the early days on motorazr or krazr. And that was limited to some java crap. It was like playing through a straw. Everything felt closed in and non-grand. Not like a PC at all.

 

And the "cringe & crawl under the desk" part was that I tried hard, real hard, to enjoy it. This back in 2005/2006. Today it's microtransactions and the inability to save a game for future play that turns me off.

 

With mobile I've always had to work around something and put in great effort, just to end up with mediocre results. With PC, I still put in great effort but in return get great results.

 

 

I'd say you're doing it wrong, but you already seem to have made up your mind. 

 

There's a universe of great mobile games, the interface and form factor are great for strategy and thoughtful puzzles, interactive books, and just about everything else. I think the App Store is the heir to classic gaming and is my main source of modern gaming entertainment. 

 

2005/2006 were like the dark ages before the enlightenment, with Palm and PocketPC and desktop syncing. It's a shame you dropped out then. 

[+wongojack]

3 hours ago, Flojomojo said:

 

I'm pretty sure that's how developers and publishers would like it to be. Annual maintenance fees, just like when your workplace buys enterprise software. It's not necessarily reasonable to expect to pay a dollar one time and expect something to work forever. 

 

I wish I could remember if I bought the Simpsons Arcade game on PS3 or 360. It was offered for a while, then delisted shortly afterwards. I can't find it on my lists. It must have been like $14.99 at the time or otherwise not worth it, or I figured I'd just play the MAME ROM. Oh well. 

Oh yes, THEY don't want you to even own your software anymore.

 

I think what was occurring to me when I wrote that is what appeals to me about consoles is they let me be sure I can participate in current gen entertainment (duh).  But maybe I don't really care what the delivery format is.  Provide that experience to me in any format you want, and I will continue to be at least somewhat interested.

[R.Cade]

On 4/9/2010 at 12:13 AM, TikkiBeard said:

 

Moore's law will tell you otherwise.

Pretty sure Moore's law already hit the wall in 2012. Instead of getting faster CPU cores, we now just get multiple cores and "power savings" and have to make up for it with software solutions. Single thread performance has not grown a substantial amount for several CPU generations.

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

 

I thought I read where silicon maxes out around 4-5GHz and we need some new technology to keep it going much beyond minimal advances now.

 

Maybe there is more work in the GPU side of things now, but I don't keep up with that...

Edited July 2, 2019 by R.Cade

[LinkoVitch]

GPU follows the same trend, modern GPUs have a LOT of cores, it makes sense.  Why try to do more of your workload with the same worker going faster, when you could have n times as many workers doing the same load for less?  Much like 9 women cannot give birth to a baby in 1 month, 9 women could birth 9 babies in 9 months, one could not.

The biggest threat (as I see it) to consoles these days are the streaming gaming services (PSNow / Stadia) that keep trying to make a go of it.  Once comms tech hits that sweet spot a lot of casual gaming will go over to them.  Those who are REALLY into their games will likely stick with PC/Consoles, but if the revenue follows the larger market then titles and support for those consoles will dwindle in favour of the greener pastures, (which is probably going to suck for the smaller devs too).  That *may* be the death of consoles, or at least mainstream ones.

Modern consoles are just simplified PCs anyway, cheaper to produce, easier to develop on etc.