Frying vs. Game Genie

[tz101]

I have heard mention of a technique known as "frying" whereby the VCS power switch is flipped on and off repeatedly until weird game results ensue.

 

This got me wondering why no one has attempted a Game Genie type of device for the system. How difficult would that be? Would a VCS Game Genie be able to do all the frying tricks with various programmable codes?

 

Whatever happened to Galoob?

[+atari2600land]

When I was new to the forum, I also asked for a Game-Genie-like device for the 2600. I guess nobody wants to do it (or can do it).

 

 

[Video]

When I first joined the forums, I don't think the following was near big enough to make such a beastie. Though I would have said the same thing about homebrew carts, and especially compilation carts (cuttle carts) Now we got all kinds of cool stuff coming out for the 2600, I see no reason such a device couldn't be done....

 

I'd buy one.

[Shawn]

There has been a Game Genie for the 2600 for a very long time:

 

[kskunk]

I think the big deal is figuring out all the cheat codes, not making a device that lets you enter them.

 

There are quite a few flash carts for the 2600 now, and all of them will run modified ROMs. Is anybody out there figuring out cheats to apply to ROM files with a hex editor or other tools?

 

Obviously a lot of people play 2600 games in emulation. Emulators can run modified ROMs, and they could easily include numerous types of cheat code support.

 

I guess in a roundabout way I'm asking if there's really enough interest in modifying ROMs this way. Because if there is, all the tools are out there now!

 

- KS

Edited April 15, 2010 by kskunk

[DickNixonArisen]

I vote against. In my opinion, the game genie was only useful for seeing the ends of games that were too hard otherwise (ghosts n goblins, battletoads, maybe battle of olympus, deadly towers)...

 

So I don't think it fits in well on the atari as an actual game aid. Maybe as a learning tool or to explore programming possibilities though

[+batari]

All the Game Genie does is patch a few bytes of the ROM and as said hacked binaries will accomplish the same task and do it better because there is no limit. There is really no point for such a device, really.

 

Also, the Cheetah project for Stella and Supercharger did just this and very few codes were ever created. That should give an idea as to how popular such an idea would be.

[+stephena]

I think the big deal is figuring out all the cheat codes, not making a device that lets you enter them.

 

There are quite a few flash carts for the 2600 now, and all of them will run modified ROMs. Is anybody out there figuring out cheats to apply to ROM files with a hex editor or other tools?

 

Obviously a lot of people play 2600 games in emulation. Emulators can run modified ROMs, and they could easily include numerous types of cheat code support.

 

I guess in a roundabout way I'm asking if there's really enough interest in modifying ROMs this way. Because if there is, all the tools are out there now!

 

- KS

Stella already supports Cheetah-style cheatcodes, as well as its own specific type of cheats. And it also supports 'simulated' frying, and with the debugger you can experiment to find these cheats (and even patch the ROM to make a cheat 'permanent'). Add to that, the Harmony cart is available to run almost any type of cart you want, and I don't really see the need of a dedicated GameGenie-like cart.

[rbudrick]

I would definitely buy one. I've always wanted one. I don't use GG-like devices to beat game, so much as mess with them and explore areas not meant to be seen. I would love to have one.

 

Speaking of which, has anyone ever dumped the rom(s) in the PGP-1? It would be nice to see it preserved.

 

-Rob

Edited April 16, 2010 by rbudrick

[CPUWIZ]

I would definitely buy one. I've always wanted one. I don't use GG-like devices to beat game, so much as mess with them and explore areas not meant to be seen. I would love to have one.

 

Speaking of which, has anyone ever dumped the rom(s) in the PGP-1? It would be nice to see it preserved.

 

-Rob

 

I don't think Marco would be too keen on the idea of opening the PGP-1 at all.

[rbudrick]

Well, for his own sake, I would hope he'd back up whatever might be in the PGP-1. Once the goods in there are gone, they're kind of irreplaceable. Haven't only two ended up in collector's hands? My understanding was Answer made 6 PAL and 6 NTSC. Also, I think the two units I did see looked quite different, if memory serves.

 

-Rob

[Video]

All the Game Genie does is patch a few bytes of the ROM and as said hacked binaries will accomplish the same task and do it better because there is no limit. There is really no point for such a device, really.

 

Also, the Cheetah project for Stella and Supercharger did just this and very few codes were ever created. That should give an idea as to how popular such an idea would be.

I don't know, for any game that has extra lives, you could potentially add more, or infinite. But you could also add less.

 

I loved messing with GG on the NES, I'd spend hours just punching in random numbers just to see what happened. As for creating cheat codes, I imagine with a forum dedicated to it, and a small enough code (4-8 characters) then this is likely how any codes would be found.

 

As for "No need because of etc, etc, etc...." Not everybody has the knowhow, or ability to make their own games, even in emulated form, and unless it's just hidiously expensive, a GG device would be far cheaper than a harmony, cuttle cart, or any other input you're own games device. And as even on AA, asking for dumped roms is a gray area, it wouldn't be easy for the ones that could have the knowhow (and willingness) and the people that didn't to get together.

[+stephena]

All the Game Genie does is patch a few bytes of the ROM and as said hacked binaries will accomplish the same task and do it better because there is no limit. There is really no point for such a device, really.

 

Also, the Cheetah project for Stella and Supercharger did just this and very few codes were ever created. That should give an idea as to how popular such an idea would be.

I don't know, for any game that has extra lives, you could potentially add more, or infinite. But you could also add less.

 

I loved messing with GG on the NES, I'd spend hours just punching in random numbers just to see what happened. As for creating cheat codes, I imagine with a forum dedicated to it, and a small enough code (4-8 characters) then this is likely how any codes would be found.

 

As for "No need because of etc, etc, etc...." Not everybody has the knowhow, or ability to make their own games, even in emulated form, and unless it's just hidiously expensive, a GG device would be far cheaper than a harmony, cuttle cart, or any other input you're own games device. And as even on AA, asking for dumped roms is a gray area, it wouldn't be easy for the ones that could have the knowhow (and willingness) and the people that didn't to get together.

Doing this in Stella is just as easy as the original Game Genie. Just go into the debugger and randomly put stuff in zero-page RAM, or patch the ROM with some random data. Or create random cheat codes and try them in Stella. That's all the Game Genie really did anyway; either patch RAM or ROM.

 

Now, if you want to do it on real hardware only, then I'll admit that a GG-like device would be nice. But in terms of emulation, you have everything you need to do this right now.

[+batari]

As for "No need because of etc, etc, etc...." Not everybody has the knowhow, or ability to make their own games, even in emulated form, and unless it's just hidiously expensive, a GG device would be far cheaper than a harmony, cuttle cart, or any other input you're own games device. And as even on AA, asking for dumped roms is a gray area, it wouldn't be easy for the ones that could have the knowhow (and willingness) and the people that didn't to get together.

That isn't true - a GG would be much more expensive than Harmony and possibly close to what CC/CC2 sold for. Consider that you need a cart port on the other end to plug in carts, which would require a special case and a cart guide. Maybe you could modify existing shells to take a cart guide, but the guide would have to be scavenged from dead 2600s.

 

The logic for a GG would also be a little too compilcated for SPLDs and probably require RAM on the board, and it would also require its own EPROM and special board because it needs to boot to a code entry screen and then boot the cart.

 

Doing this in Stella is just as easy as the original Game Genie. Just go into the debugger and randomly put stuff in zero-page RAM, or patch the ROM with some random data. Or create random cheat codes and try them in Stella. That's all the Game Genie really did anyway; either patch RAM or ROM.

 

Now, if you want to do it on real hardware only, then I'll admit that a GG-like device would be nice. But in terms of emulation, you have everything you need to do this right now.

The original GG did not patch RAM, only cart ROM. Later GG devices may have.

[Video]

In other words, it's just like a harmony, with less logic stuff and an extra cart connector. (all the GG's I own (admittedly, only for 4 different systems) don't have guides, just a port sticking out of the top of the cart. If you're talking about the tabs to open the dust covers, any custom board made could just have excess plastic to push the port cover open. It'd otherwise just fit in a standard cartshell wit the top end cut off (or for cleanleness sake, just holes for the fingers and port)

[Pioneer4x4]

Doing this in Stella is just as easy as the original Game Genie. Just go into the debugger and randomly put stuff in zero-page RAM, or patch the ROM with some random data. Or create random cheat codes and try them in Stella. That's all the Game Genie really did anyway; either patch RAM or ROM.

 

Now, if you want to do it on real hardware only, then I'll admit that a GG-like device would be nice. But in terms of emulation, you have everything you need to do this right now.

Can you save the changes in stella and patch the bin? Then use the Harmony and play away, right?

[Shawn]

Well, for his own sake, I would hope he'd back up whatever might be in the PGP-1. Once the goods in there are gone, they're kind of irreplaceable. Haven't only two ended up in collector's hands? My understanding was Answer made 6 PAL and 6 NTSC. Also, I think the two units I did see looked quite different, if memory serves.

 

-Rob

 

 

What would be really cool is to take apart a PGP-1 and clone it so everyone could buy one

[rbudrick]

Well, for his own sake, I would hope he'd back up whatever might be in the PGP-1. Once the goods in there are gone, they're kind of irreplaceable. Haven't only two ended up in collector's hands? My understanding was Answer made 6 PAL and 6 NTSC. Also, I think the two units I did see looked quite different, if memory serves.

 

-Rob

 

 

What would be really cool is to take apart a PGP-1 and clone it so everyone could buy one

 

Yes, definitely. I'd still just rest better knowing the known copies have been backed up and/or their internal logic made into a schematic, even if only the owners had these.

 

-Rob

[Shawn]

 

Yes, definitely. I'd still just rest better knowing the known copies have been backed up and/or their internal logic made into a schematic, even if only the owners had these.

 

-Rob

 

 

The data is on eproms from what I know of the PGP-1 so I assume it would have been archived but I could be wrong.

[+stephena]

Doing this in Stella is just as easy as the original Game Genie. Just go into the debugger and randomly put stuff in zero-page RAM, or patch the ROM with some random data. Or create random cheat codes and try them in Stella. That's all the Game Genie really did anyway; either patch RAM or ROM.

 

Now, if you want to do it on real hardware only, then I'll admit that a GG-like device would be nice. But in terms of emulation, you have everything you need to do this right now.

Can you save the changes in stella and patch the bin? Then use the Harmony and play away, right?

You can patch the ROM from within the Stella debugger, and then saved that patched ROM. The ROM can then be run with any emulator or on the Harmony (assuming the changes you've made didn't 'break' the image). As for patching RAM within Stella, obviously that can't be saved and then run on the Harmony. But as Batari pointed out, the original GG didn't support patching RAM anyway.