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Nolan Bushnell Appointed to Atari Board

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Another is that we are a community that places a high premium on integrity...

:rolling:

Explain.

What's to explain? I find it amusing whenever someone puts forward the notion that the classic gaming community embodies respect for virtuous ideals.

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Glad to see everything worked out for the best. :thumbsup:

 

Still, now that the real guys who started it all are here at AA, and can speak for themselves.

I guess there is no reason for me to release my Nolan book. :sad:

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What's to explain? I find it amusing whenever someone puts forward the notion that the classic gaming community embodies respect for virtuous ideals.

That isn't what I said. All I said is that we value integrity in others. Looking back over the things that people took issue with the most in this discussion, each one of them involved a breach of integrity of some sort, which is why I mentioned it in my earlier post. But I'm not going to rehash those issues here because, as I and others have said, they've been discussed quite enough already.

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HOLY CRAP!

 

first, the boxed Air Raid, and now this? :o

 

:)

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What's to explain? I find it amusing whenever someone puts forward the notion that the classic gaming community embodies respect for virtuous ideals.

That isn't what I said. All I said is that we value integrity in others. Looking back over the things that people took issue with the most in this discussion, each one of them involved a breach of integrity of some sort, which is why I mentioned it in my earlier post. But I'm not going to rehash those issues here because, as I and others have said, they've been discussed quite enough already.

I have no desire to argue this point with you, Jay. It was just making an off-hand comment on page 27(!) of what I thought was a dying thread. It sounded to me as though you were characterizing the classic gaming community as one that places a high value on integrity, as if it were a virtue that some how sets us apart. I find that characterization to be, at best, specious. An honest examination of the classic gaming community, and you need go no further than this thread to do so, reveals a community no different from most other assemblages of humanity. Integrity, ethics, morality, whatever you want to call them, are relative constructs here, and more often than not, they are wielded as weapons of self-interest.

 

I just don't see that it was the principle of integrity that was being defended when demands were made of certain individuals in this thread to authenticate themselves and answer for statements that had been attributed to them in the past. The obvious hostility behind those "requests" suggests it was something else.

 

I'm not criticizing anyone here or the community at large. It is what it is, but I think Jess was closer to the mark on this point.

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Wow this thread has come 360. Glad to see Curt and Nolan have "patched" things up. Probably not friends, but they can understand where each is coming from. A week ago after this thread started, I Posted on Nolan's Facebook wall what was going on. I really still have reservations of what the "truth" is , but am very glad to see Nolan, Ted and Owen have showed up here. I do not know if Nolan signed up because of my post on Facebook, but I like to think that my post had something to do with all of them showing up. I am taking some of the credit because it makes me smile :P

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Wow this thread has come 360. Glad to see Curt and Nolan have "patched" things up. Probably not friends, but they can understand where each is coming from. A week ago after this thread started, I Posted on Nolan's Facebook wall what was going on. I really still have reservations of what the "truth" is , but am very glad to see Nolan, Ted and Owen have showed up here. I do not know if Nolan signed up because of my post on Facebook, but I like to think that my post had something to do with all of them showing up. I am taking some of the credit because it makes me smile :P

 

good job! :thumbsup:

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I have nothing constructive to add to this other than to say I'm a bit in awe of what I just read in these last 29 pages. I'd like to be the 800th person to welcome all the VIP's that have posted here. While I might not have anything useful to contribute, it was fascinating to read through this thread. I do hope you'll continue to visit and occasionally contribute to the discussions.

 

Having said that:

 

Mr. Bushnell, Mr. Rubin, Mr. Dabney:

 

I asked this of Mr. Bushnell earlier but I'd like to reinstate the question. What are you three gentlemen's opinions on the homebrew community at large, if you are familiar enough to say so? Do you look upon individuals that create games for vintage systems with a bit of affection and pride for keeping your accomplishments in the foreground of people's minds?

 

That is definitely something I've wondered about myself. Personally, I was amazed to see that people were still creating 2600 games when I first discovered Homebrews several years ago. Not to mention a development platform such as batariBASIC.

Edited by aftermac

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Considering how negative this thread was overall, can we have it closed down and replaced with a new one linked to the actual news story? After all, why would any of the "big names" want to continue posting and replying to messages in here?

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Just finished ploughing through this rather epic thread. I swear, everytime I get busy with other stuff for a month or two, something cool happens around here.

 

Never thought I'd see posts by all the original folks at Atari here, for sure. I'm glad all the kinks got worked out, and I very much look forward to 'that other thread'. I talked with Joe Decuir once at a convention, and listened to his presentation on the design of the VCS. Very interesting stuff, and it really gave me a picture of the design process that went into the 2600. I'd love to hear similar stuff from Nolan, Ted etc.

 

This thread wasn't something I'd expect to see. Much more interesting than the Air Raid box find, though maybe that's because the history and the people involved with Atari are more interesting to me. I was good friends with a kid whose dad worked at Atari (Hank Wilson was his name, I believe), though he came in later in 80/81 or so. I always used to ply him with questions as a kid. He did something on the design or technical side. Memory is a bit fuzzy as to what.

 

Anyway, this is pretty cool :thumbsup:

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Hi! I'm Cafeman, at least on Atari Age I am. I just read this whole thread and feel like I'm in bizarro world (or dreamed it?) and need to take a nap now. I loved Steve Kent's book and Atari. Liked Chuck E. Cheese until I had to bring my own kids there and deal with excitable bratty kids for 2 hours. C.E.C. has great pizza.

 

Welcome to the big three that (I'm assuming are legit, sure seems like its true) entered the thread: owen, ted, nolan. Congrats on the new atari/bushnell news. That is all.

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I'm not criticizing anyone here or the community at large. It is what it is, but I think Jess was closer to the mark on this point.

 

Which Jess? It might be hard to tell, since we both have Maneki-Nekos as avatars.

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Considering how negative this thread was overall, can we have it closed down and replaced with a new one linked to the actual news story? After all, why would any of the "big names" want to continue posting and replying to messages in here?

 

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/162122-atariage-welcomes-ted-dabney/page__st__20__p__1999500#entry1999500

 

And replaced, no, it still represents legitimate information and responses from people on both sides regarding the subject matter. If it's run it's course and it died down, it'll close itself like most threads eventually do.

Edited by wgungfu
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I'm not criticizing anyone here or the community at large. It is what it is, but I think Jess was closer to the mark on this point.

 

Which Jess? It might be hard to tell, since we both have Maneki-Nekos as avatars.

I was referring to your comment about the community behaving in a manner befitting its worst stereotypes.

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I'm not criticizing anyone here or the community at large. It is what it is, but I think Jess was closer to the mark on this point.

 

Which Jess? It might be hard to tell, since we both have Maneki-Nekos as avatars.

I was referring to your comment about the community behaving in a manner befitting its worst stereotypes.

 

Ah yes, that's what I thought.

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If it's run it's course and it died down, it'll close itself like most threads eventually do.

 

Yeah! Like that horrible E.T. Dump thread or that Knight Rider 2600 thread.... :ponder: :lolblue:

 

I think you underestimate the necro-bump!

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Yeah! Like that horrible E.T. Dump thread ...

What? There's an E.T. Dump thread???? :)

 

Oh man, I have to bump that and check it out!!!

Thanx!

 

desiv

:P

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This thread and the Air Raid thread make for an unbeatable month on AtariAge. I'm glad Curt and Nolan talked. Curt is such a respected and active figure here and Nolan, of course, is a welcome presence.

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So Owen, chillax dude, its all good... have a cookie! :-)

 

 

Curt

 

Oh, well, no one told me there would be cookies. That's different! :-)

(Chilled, and yes, I was late, but posted as I read. Bad form I admit.)

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Well, this leads into a good question:

 

Mr. Rubin:

 

What is your favorite cookie? This way we can be sure you always come back for more AtariAge. :D

 

Glad to see you back!

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I will not get into the details of these arguments here (as someone who was there BTW) and maybe the facts are not 100%, but that is not a reason to be jerks here. By the way, game ideas at Atari were often discussed YEARS in advance of them actually being built, often put in notebooks, and I sat in many of those meetings and discussions (remember, I was hired in early 76) and it is quite possible Nolan sat in a meeting where a game like that was originally discussed and it got filed because the hardware was just not there to do it yet. But who cares, really?

 

So I guess the original dated notes, being dated AFTER he left don't really matter then?

 

Curt

 

I did want to address this. There were dozens and dozens of games I had design input to. I am not listed on any of them, or in any lab book notes. Does not make me a liar. That is not unusual, we were quite lazy with our lab books. For example, I sat with the designer (Doug Neubauer) of the Atari 800 game Star Raiders while he was designing it, and doing some of the sounds for the game. I was working on Tunnel Hunt at the time, and I needed some sounds. I liked what I heard, so I spent a lot of time in the lab with him for a week or so helping him tweak sounds, giving feedback, and making the occasional game suggestion. I then went and designed a sound routine to copy the sounds from Star Raiders ( because I did not have his code) into Tunnel Hunt (the shot firing sound.) So, in conversation somewhere, I might say I had my hand in Star Raiders, even though it is not documented anywhere, and I am not sure if Doug would even remember those few days. But that does not make me a liar.

 

As I said, it is very possible that Nolan sat in discussions of a similar game idea while he was still at Atari, we had LOTS of those discussions, and many were never recorded, or may have been lost as the notes moved around a lot, and were often brought to later meetings and destroyed. I used to enjoy those meetings. Nolan always had great ideas, and even if they were not the actual game, his input was felt on a lot of titles. So perhaps you don't have all the notes? Maybe his input to an earlier discussion of a similar title was not captured, but this does not make him a liar. (I know that many of my early ideas, some of which actually show up in a number of different titles later were never recorded as such.)

 

During those brain storming sessions, we would look back at older ideas and discussions, or bring up ideas and turn them into new games. Yes, Nolan was not part of the discussion at the later time when it was finally created, but that does not mean his ideas did not help generate the idea i the first place. Your collection is not 100% as you know. That man had more ideas than could ever be recorded. Some good, some not, but they were out there. He also would often just walk into a lab and start throwing out ideas. I believe it was his idea to do a Hit The Bear game which led me to design the Triple Hunt game. I do not think his input is recorded on that is it?

 

I also want to address this Ralph issue. The original Odyssey design was junk, and was a true one hit wonder. Yea, there were multiple games, sort of, and every one of them moved the same smeary analog dot around the screen under a static held piece of plastic to make "a game." It was an analog system that drew a blurry single smear on the screen, and not very well. It required a plastic overlay on the screen to create the playfield. The paddles were also analog and almost impossible to control. If I recall, it did not keep score. It was an idea, it was NOT a design, and any similarity between it and the first pong game are purely idea in nature only. Nolan, seeing a good idea, got the right people to build it well, and Atari was that place. Just because Alcorn was the hardware designer does not nean Nolan was not responsible for the design, or the idea. He knew who to get, didn't he? Nolan was the boss in charge, and as such, had a lot of responsibility for the project as well.

 

And do not get me started on the patent issue. There was nothing copied, because there was nothing worth copying and copying a "simple idea" itself is not really what we put patents on. We put patents on the implementation of the ideas. AND, improvement patents are a very legitimate form of work. Done all the time. But there was nothing to copy, it was all analog. Everything Atari did was all digital, As someone who reviews patents today, I would probably have thrown out any claims here. Moving dots on a CRT was long known even before Ralph did it. Playing games on a CRT was long known before Ralph did it. OK, maybe he got it on the home TV first, but it was awful. I know, I had one. It was completely unplayable. I'll say it again, Odyssey was an idea, poorly executed, and would never have scaled. It took Nolan, creating and pushing teams, to create a better version of the idea in home pong and the 2600, and building a company where it was possible to make cool games. As a technology manager today, I give credit to my team, of course, but I take credit as well on our projects even tough I am not "the designer." I help solve problems, I put in ideas, and I make it possible to get the work done, and I make sure my teams have what they need to be creative and productive. That also was Nolan's job, and that too made games possible.

 

And regardless of who George Bush gave some award to, I notice that I do not see "Odyssey" printed on the kids pajamas and T-Shirts at Target, but I sure do see a lot of them with an Atari logos on them! Seems the market has decided which was the real winner.

 

Enough said, I am going to go get that cookie.

 

Cheers,

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Well, this leads into a good question:

 

Mr. Rubin:

 

What is your favorite cookie? This way we can be sure you always come back for more AtariAge. :D

 

Glad to see you back!

 

Hmm, good question. Probably the plain ol' Chocolate Chip. Although, I do like a good Florentine as well.

Hell, who am I kidding...if it sweet, and taste good, at that time, it is my favorite cookie! :-)

 

-O-

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Wholly Cow! I spend a couple of days working late and I miss the best party on Atariage! I just logged in to get a little recreation before going to bed, and it kept me glued to my computer until (so far) two in the morning. And I have an early meeting...

 

Regarding TV tennis type games: Dad brought home an Odyssey. I remember playing it a few times, but not being really enthralled. However, I spent hours and hours playing Pong at Sears after school. It was definitely a better game in my opinion.

 

To Nolan: I always liked Gilbert Zapps in Campbell. The concept of having a variety of games (electronic and otherwise) that encouraged two people to interact was a great ice breaker to bring two strangers together. It was sort of a Chuck E Cheese for adults. I met a few chicks there, for sure (BEFORE I got married, just in case she ever reads this).

 

To Ralph, Ted, Owen, and all other movers and shakers who may be reading this that helped to dream up and build all the neat stuff I have in my closet (and basement and storage units): I respect you and your contributions and hope we'll hear more from you on this wonderful forum, which (normally) represents a mature, intelligent and witty commentary on the games we cherish.

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Very much agreed Owen, Odyssey 1 is total trash -for sure. ;) Pong/home Pong was a real and enjoyably playable game. :)

Edited by ovalbugmann

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