Another thing I love about classic consoles vs. current ones

[Dittohead Servbot #24]

This topic you could say is a sequel to my previous "Classic vs. Current consoles" topic.

 

Now, the main theme of this forum/website is classic Atari console gaming, but hasn't anyone thought about how wonderful it is that even after 20-30 years, nearly all the cartridge based classic consoles (provided they were at least reasonably cared for) still work perfectly? Yes, there is the infamous front loader NES's 72 pin connector that sometimes need replacing (and for all cartridge consoles you also must keep the contacts on the games cleaned with rubbing alcohol/cotton swabs), but other than that, I think it's amazing that not only are cartridge based consoles/games still going strong after 20-30 years, but they're still very affordable (except for those rare cartridges of course). On that note, how much longer can these consoles continue with reasonable care, you think?

 

But for current disc based consoles (especially Sony's), sometimes all it takes is to bump it the wrong way and it's "DREed". Whereas cartridge based consoles (especially Nintendo ones) can practically go through a nuclear war and still work. And of course, everyone knows about the Xbox 360's Red Ring of Death.

 

What are some examples you personally experienced on how reliable decades old consoles/games are, and/or how fragile some of the disc based consoles can be?

Edited April 25, 2010 by Dittohead Servbot #24

[potatohead]

Found: Crushed 7800 consoles, and carts that look like they were ran over, soaked in crap, and tossed into the junk bin. ("by the pound" Goodwill find) Scoop them up, shake out the crap and ditch all the broken plastic and pay $1.00 or so.

 

Connect power supply, wiggle cart board in, wiggle controller in after fixing bent pin, play game!

 

Bought PS2 opening week, along with a Tekken release. I think it was 3. Sit down to play, cat bumps PS2, game crashes right after that, never to play again. without serious resurfacing. I never did get that disc to work, no matter what. The motion caused the disc to get scratched, while in motion, forever souring me on disc based consoles. Since that was the only title, we went down and BOUGHT ANOTHER ONE, to play.

 

I'm still pissed about it, and have pretty much bought used for that system ever since. It made a hell of a DVD player though. Component hookups brought a picture quality that cost a lot to match.

 

Ever since that experience, I've taken the time to mount and secure disc based consoles, and it's a PITA, compared to what carts are like. When it's gaming time, carts and consoles can be spread out all over the place!! In bags, sat on, kicked, you name it, and NOTHING ever happens. Love it.

[mbd30]

The worst thing about disc based consoles is the fragility of the media itself. Rent / buy a used PS2 game or whatever and it's likely to be all scratched up and worthless. This was never an issue with carts.

[recspecz]

The downside of the modern consoles will be their dependence on hard drives. Eventually there will be corruption of the boot sector, turning all those years of gaming glory into useless bits of magnetized etching.

 

The worst thing about disc based consoles is the fragility of the media itself. Rent / buy a used PS2 game or whatever and it's likely to be all scratched up and worthless. This was never an issue with carts.

 

This was seen in the late 90s, and is one of the reasons it's difficult to find non-abused versions of older games.

 

My Solution? I've burnt all the games I own onto CDRs and only play the copies. It makes for easier storage and organization, too!

Edited April 25, 2010 by recspecz

[roberto]

Unfortunately my Intellivision (like my C64) died many years ago... I'm still mourning the loss

[ls650]

Why mourn? Pick up another console from eBay or GameGavel for a few bucks.

[in the dark]

The last 5 or 6 years I have grown more, and more, into cart based gaming fanaticism and a zealot for the medium. I love the cart medium. I also like the flavor of the games that are on those carts, largely I think due to the arcade influence in those early consoles. I love the old retro arcade style gameplay. The 80s and the 90s are what I consider the "golden age."

 

I really don't like disc based consoles. Moving parts put a sort-of fear in me, always have. Even though I have had only one CD based console go bad on me so far, my Sega CD. It went bad just sitting on the shelf. I know that all components can and will go bad, it just seems that they made things out of better quality materials back then, especially when it came to the cart based consoles.

 

 

I have a lot of different gaming consoles, DVD, CD, and cart. Only my cart systems get any playtime now-a-days.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[roberto]

Why mourn? Pick up another console from eBay or GameGavel for a few bucks.

 

Indeed I'm thinking of doing so (and not just to buy back an Intellivision ) but P&P over here will cost much more than the consoles themselves so I waiting for a chance to come over in the US and get them myself...

 

cheers!

[Video]

Heck yeah. Older consoles are tanks. They take the abuse and keep asking for more.....or did when we were kids. Now they get to live the retired pampered life, playing games all the time...

 

Just look under the hood of an Atari 2600. Literally like 3 chips and a few resistors. Not much that can go wrong with it. In fact, the weak point of many of these old consoles is the cart port. Dirt, grime, dust, bent pins, etc. But it's so well built, you can usually fix it. They were also cool, I mean, the 2600 ran at 300mah at 9 volts. The 360? let me check....12 volt at 16.5A OH MY GOD!!? No wonder the poor thing is subject to RROD

 

And yeah, drives just suck. Companies put them in because "CD media is cheaper" But the fact is, since they charge whatever the hell they want to, regardless of media cost, that's a non issue. The real reason, is that the company is counting on the drive to fail. It'll take a few years, the company can 'claim' "normal wear and tear" and by then, you've got quiet a library of expensive games that you're going to buy a new console to support, insuring you stick with that console a few more years.

 

Now there's even HDD's, oh my god, yet another shitty unreliable moving part. I never did get into those. It's handy on the 360 to dump a game on the HDD and not put wear and tear on the main disc drive. But when it comes down to it, when it fails, there wont' be any fixing it either. You just get a new one. I don't trust them and will stick with memory cards. I got two, and haven't even half filled one up, so I see no reason to risk my saved games to the HDD..but some people do.

 

Anyhow, consoles way back were built to last, consoles today are built to break (hopefully after the warranty expires...boy did Microsoft shoot themselves in the foot this generation) 20 years from now, I imagine many of us will still be playing our Atari's, with minimal repair work, and I bet you wont' find a single functioning PS2 or Xbox anywhere.

[carmel_andrews]

Classic consoles like atari's/CV's/Inty's etc are built like tanks, you can do the 'blitter test' they carry out on dodgy ST blitter chips by dropping the console from a 20 floor building and it will still work...You as much move something like an xbox or ps2 etc while it's accessing the dvd/HD etc and it's buy buy xbox/ps2 etc (buy buy as in, they want you to buy another one because they are so poorly made)

 

There again, weren't most of the early atari consoles made and manufactured in the US (up to the 5200), not surprising then that Atari's stuck around like they did...I guess it says something for the durability and quality of US manufacturing as opposed to cheap labour/labor electronics manufacturing in Asia/far east etc

 

There again, i guess if Atari had reliability issues with it's games console like MS does (a'la RROD etc) I guess we wouldn't be talking about Atari now

Edited April 25, 2010 by carmel_andrews

[recspecz]

Heck yeah. Older consoles are tanks. They take the abuse and keep asking for more.....or did when we were kids. Now they get to live the retired pampered life, playing games all the time...

 

Just look under the hood of an Atari 2600. Literally like 3 chips and a few resistors. Not much that can go wrong with it. In fact, the weak point of many of these old consoles is the cart port. Dirt, grime, dust, bent pins, etc. But it's so well built, you can usually fix it. They were also cool, I mean, the 2600 ran at 300mah at 9 volts. The 360? let me check....12 volt at 16.5A OH MY GOD!!? No wonder the poor thing is subject to RROD

 

And yeah, drives just suck. Companies put them in because "CD media is cheaper" But the fact is, since they charge whatever the hell they want to, regardless of media cost, that's a non issue. The real reason, is that the company is counting on the drive to fail. It'll take a few years, the company can 'claim' "normal wear and tear" and by then, you've got quiet a library of expensive games that you're going to buy a new console to support, insuring you stick with that console a few more years.

 

Now there's even HDD's, oh my god, yet another shitty unreliable moving part. I never did get into those. It's handy on the 360 to dump a game on the HDD and not put wear and tear on the main disc drive. But when it comes down to it, when it fails, there wont' be any fixing it either. You just get a new one. I don't trust them and will stick with memory cards. I got two, and haven't even half filled one up, so I see no reason to risk my saved games to the HDD..but some people do.

 

Anyhow, consoles way back were built to last, consoles today are built to break (hopefully after the warranty expires...boy did Microsoft shoot themselves in the foot this generation) 20 years from now, I imagine many of us will still be playing our Atari's, with minimal repair work, and I bet you wont' find a single functioning PS2 or Xbox anywhere.

And expect the next gen consoles to not support the software of the previous generation. WHich is sad/pathetic considering that modern consoles have the same equipment as found in my desktop computer. IT ISN'T THAT HARD TO EMULATE YOUR PAST @!#$ SONY!!!

 

/nerdrant

[kool kitty89]

My ca 1992 Sega CD still works fine though it can't read some super scratched-up discs that may PC still can (but that's understandable and true for many modern consoles too -compared to PC -depending on drive of course -there are soem rather finicky PC drives too, and consoles vary -some models of Xbox supposedly have very good DVD drives, at least one is rather poor -360 is another matter)

[shadow460]

I've seen 2600 consoles that are more dead than Jackie Gleason, and I've seen a 360 survive the RROD right before my eyes. It's all in how you take care of your stuff, and (in some cases), if you know someone who can fix it. Yes, I've had dodgy consoles before. My NES used to take a lot of patience to boot, but now, since I've worked on it, it boots on the first or second try every time.

 

There are very few of my consoles that I haven't repaired or modded in some way. Most of the "tough" ones like my 2600 and my Game Boy, have required repairs, and most of the modded consoles are the "weak" ones like my PS2. All but one Game Gear and one Lynx still run strong, my 2600 needs a RIOT although it plays most games just fine, and those are like that because I haven't purchased parts for them yet.

 

Sorry, I just get tired of hearing the same pre-programmed garbage that this or that console is junk and will most certainly break down on you. If you think it's going to break, have it repaired the right way and then game on. Those who are serious about collecting for and playing disc based consoles will find ways to keep them repaired running for 33 years or more.

[kool kitty89]

360 cant survive RROD if you're talking about a true 3/4 ring failure. 2/4 ring is simple overheating, 4/4 ring is a power problem, and 1/4 I think is a drive issue. (not sure)

3/4 RROD is a total failure and (while requiring diagnosis to determine the exact cause) is usually due to the GPU overheating long enough and hot enough to melt the solder and be pried loose by the board (which is under excessive tension from the X-brackets and rivet assembly), they sometimes "fix" temselves for a while, but eventually end up failing again, often worse from what I've read. (it can be repaired or prevented rather simply for anyone with moderate assembly/electronics skills -of course only if your warranty is dead)

[NE146]

Yeah it's true about reliability for the most part. However, I remember as a kid being very heartbroken as I sat there for the umpteenth time on my SIXTH Atari 5200 Joystick pressing the "start" button as hard as I could unable to begin playing a game of Joust So really it's all over the map.

[jferio]

I've seen 2600 consoles that are more dead than Jackie Gleason, and I've seen a 360 survive the RROD right before my eyes. It's all in how you take care of your stuff, and (in some cases), if you know someone who can fix it. Yes, I've had dodgy consoles before. My NES used to take a lot of patience to boot, but now, since I've worked on it, it boots on the first or second try every time.

 

Given that many of our older examples will probably start getting finicky as the resistors stop, well, resisting and will have to be replaced, yes, one does need to know how to repair. I've warned my friend about that one.

 

Now there's even HDD's, oh my god, yet another shitty unreliable moving part. I never did get into those. It's handy on the 360 to dump a game on the HDD and not put wear and tear on the main disc drive. But when it comes down to it, when it fails, there wont' be any fixing it either. You just get a new one. I don't trust them and will stick with memory cards. I got two, and haven't even half filled one up, so I see no reason to risk my saved games to the HDD..but some people do.

 

Most of the issue with the hard drive is that they tend to 'lock' the motherboard and harddrive together, which prevents you from moving the hard drive, or replacing it, unless you have a method to 'unlock' it. I know the original Xbox can be modchipped to do that, and indeed, that's the only reason I'd even consider doing it.

 

I do consider that the presence of moving parts will mean that the odds of the hardware surviving 30-40 years are less than the cart based systems... although certainly people as dedicated as some of us will find a way to keep these consoles running.

[vrocko]

I have to agree with Shadow, it's all in how you take care of it, the system and the game. If you have a tendency to be a little rough on your systems/games eventually it will take its toll and you'll end up with a large paperweight. I've seen systems that look like they've been through the war and back and I've seen games that look like the dog used them for a chew toy. I try to take care of my systems and make sure they are protected to the best of my ability but I know that they still can fail on me.

 

Any system, DVD/CD or Cart based, can fail given time and the elements. I've had a 2600 go sour on me and I did everything in my power to fix it but when the cost to fix it was greater than what I paid for it I got rid of it, i.e. gave it to the local retro game store for parts and got a replacement. It was cheaper. I had Gex for the 3DO go bad on me when my nephew, then quite a bit younger, used it on the 3DO. Don't know what he did but it will not let me go to the next level. Boots up and starts, lets me get to the main menu but can't do anything but move around the main menu. I've also had a NES go bad on me. Again did everything I could to fix it until the cost of fixing out-weighed the cost of buying a working used one. My Jaguar and I argue occasionally because it's cold and doesn't want to play my cart games like Doom, the red Jag screen shows up. Same with my 2600, some games I have to "fight" with to get them to play. I've had one Activision Starmaster game that just refused to play at all. I looks in good condition but just will not play, still have it but can't get it to do a thing.

 

My 360 did the RROD on me after about a year of ownership. Called MS, they said they'd fix it for free. Sent me the shipping label, packed it, shipped it, got it back in about a week. My original Xbox DVD drive wouldn't read the DVD games about 2 years ago. CD games were ok but DVD games it couldn't read. I bought a better DVD drive and installed it myself, with some help from the internet. Works fine now. In that time saw my nephew go through 3 original Xboxes. He's had to send back his 360 four times for repairs. Now my nephew has a tendency to be a little harsher on his systems than I am. His friends I've noticed are the same. I've heard horror stories on PS2 and PS3 systems as well. I don't know if this was true or just a hoax but DVD/CD "rot" was going around the internet when the Blu-Ray DVD's and games started coming out. That's a manufacturing issue, if it's true. All of this does go to prove more for the arguement that DVD/CD systems/games are more likely to fail than cart systems/games but I disagree. I've had issues with both types of systems over the years and to say any one is tougher, stronger, more resilliant than the other is something I don't believe. My nephew still can't believe I have a working original Xbox that I purchased on launch date.

 

G4 did a test on the three last gen systems, some of you may have seen it. Morgan Webb threw a PS2, Xbox and Gamecube off a ledge about one story up, could have been lower but that's what it looked like to me, to see what system would still start even after three throws. The PS2 died after the first toss, the Xbox after the second, front came off as did the power button so she couldn't even turn it on, only the Gamecube came on after three throws. Now they didn't test the systems to see if the games would run but you can see that some systems can take more damage where as others not as much. I thought the Xbox would survive more but if the power button comes off it's kind of hard to turn on the system

 

So to me it's more in the how you take care of it as well as how well it's built that goes into how long the system/game lasts. I'll agree that the 2600 being built in the late '70's and being able to work until now, some 30 odd years later, is impressive and I hope they will work well into the future but as they say time is the great equalizer. Eventually all things succumb to the passage of time. Enjoy them now while you still can and protect them the best you can.

 

Rich

[Herbarius]

I did never own any disc-based consoles, but from my experience with PC CD-drives as well as audio CD-players I wouldn't expect much in regards to longevity/durability.

[kool kitty89]

I don't think we've ever worn out a PC CD-ROM drive at home, except a CD changer some 8-9 years ago. Most seem to just get upgraded or shuffled around.

Again that ol' 1x speed CD-ROM drive in my ~18 year old Sega CD is still going strong. (knock on wood)

 

Actually the only console I've ever had totally die is a light sixer VCS that got fried with reversed polarity. (the board's fine after replacing the voltage regulator, but the main chips are dead -tested it with TIA+RIOT+6507 from my other VCS, case is in nice shape too, and we found the original power supply after the fact...)

[otaku]

I don't think we've ever worn out a PC CD-ROM drive at home, except a CD changer some 8-9 years ago. Most seem to just get upgraded or shuffled around.

Again that ol' 1x speed CD-ROM drive in my ~18 year old Sega CD is still going strong. (knock on wood)

 

Actually the only console I've ever had totally die is a light sixer VCS that got fried with reversed polarity. (the board's fine after replacing the voltage regulator, but the main chips are dead -tested it with TIA+RIOT+6507 from my other VCS, case is in nice shape too, and we found the original power supply after the fact...)

 

Never had a cart based system cause problems that couldn't be easily delt with (blowing tapping battery replacements etc. but disc based systems you still have the issues of carts (scratching now) and all but the worst part is how complicated and prone to wear and tear the machines are (360 ps3, wii etc ps2 etc)

 

I've seen psone ps two issues for an avid playing friend. Had trouble with my 360 and wiis as well. ALSO SOME TROUBLE WITH SEGA SATURN AND DREAMCAST meh. Tradeoffs great games and graphics and tech but reliability and cost of current stuff sucks

[thrax]

Manufactured home use goods in general have gotten lower in quality. In the 70s items like TVs, Washer, Dryers, Stereos etc had longer lifespans then most of the cheap stuff today.