Atari ST Software/Desktop Questions

[Tempest]

Now that I finally have my Mega STE setup and working about (thanks to a very nice SC1435 monitor), I want to see about doing some upgrades and installing some games so I have a few questions. If they have been asked and answered before, apologies in advance.

 

1. What's the best desktop to run? The default GEM desktop with its lovely lime green goodness, to put it bluntly, sucks. I've seen pictures of some pretty nifty looking desktops out there, but I don't know where to start.

 

2. What utilities should I install? I plan on just using the STE as a game system, but I know there are some handy dandy utilities out there that I should look into. Can someone suggest some?

 

3. What games can be installed to the HD? I was doing some experimenting this weekend and came back with mixed results. For example, the Infocom games didn't mind being put on the HD, but Ultima II didn't like it (it kept asking for the disk). I assume there's a list of HD installable games and cracks?

 

4. What else should I look for? A VME graphics card would be nice, but silly and expensive. Any other cool items that I should be on the look out for though? I have those 3D glases but I never got a chance to test them out.

 

Tempest

[Christos]

1. Jinnee, Thing, Gemini, Teradesk and a couple more.

2. Most games won't run if you use one of those desktops though. About utilities, what do you have in mind? There's pretty much everything you might want.

3. Check the dbug site for the latest patches.

4. Maybe a network adapter or an ultrasatan for easy file transfer. Other than that as long as you only plan to play games can't see a need for something else.

 

5. There really should be a current ST FAQ.

[Tempest]

Oh so those fancy desktops stop some games from running? Guess I won't bother with them then.

 

I do have an EtherNEC for my ST, but I never used it. Some day...

 

Tempest

[Christos]

Hmmm, ok, most games is a bit far fetched, but a lot of them certainly will have problems.

[+Guitarman]

Does your Mega STe have a built in HDD? I have Geneva and NeoDesk installed on my Mega Ste, TT030 and a Megafile 30 that I use for other non-HDD St's. I would definitely recommend the UltraSatan. If you have more than one ST, you can use the UltraSatan as the HDD for them all. Just set up a different SD card for each system and switch as needed.

[Tempest]

Yes I have a HD.

 

Tempest

[+DarkLord]

As mentioned, there are several good replacement desktops - Jinnee/MagiC, Neodesk/Geneva (both

of these combos give a multitasking environment as well), and the still supported Teradesk.

 

Definitely go to Dbug and check out some of the "altered" disks and games - lots of stuff

plays from mass storage now, and more seems to come out all the time. I'd definitely look

for Obsession Pinball, Stardust, and titles like that to show just what your Mega STe can

do. If you like eye and ear candy, there are many great STe demo's.

 

There are good word processors, programming languages, text editors, etc, etc,. Ask for a

specific need and you'll get lots of direct answers.

 

If you're going to be putting everything on 1 hard drive, and not be able to swap cards like

with an Ultasatan, then I'd recommend a boot program like Superboot, XBoot, etc,...it will

allow you to save your preferred settings for each environment (productivity, games, whatever)

and load them up from a menu at boot.

 

Make sure you get Atari's Xcontrol and the CPXs to go with it - they'll take good advantage of

TOS 2.06.

 

BTW, TOS 2.06 appears bland - but there is actually a lot of functionality and speed underneath

the hood, once you open it up.

 

I'd still rather work with TOS 2.x and up vs WinBlows any day of the week.

[+wood_jl]

As mentioned, there are several good replacement desktops - Jinnee/MagiC, Neodesk/Geneva (both

of these combos give a multitasking environment as well), and the still supported Teradesk.

 

Definitely go to Dbug and check out some of the "altered" disks and games - lots of stuff

plays from mass storage now, and more seems to come out all the time. I'd definitely look

for Obsession Pinball, Stardust, and titles like that to show just what your Mega STe can

do. If you like eye and ear candy, there are many great STe demo's.

 

It was all eye and ear candy, right up to the poine where Mega STe comes in. My bias? I have STm and STfm. I was under the impression that this is what I needed to "recapture the essence" of the experience. I tuned out in 1990 (I think) when I had 1040STf and 4MB and "whatever TOS it had in it" (which I think was 1.0). So merely matching those specs was, I figured, a good place to resume the ST experience. I prefer original 520ST. Then I buy a bunch of them and find out nobody gives a squirt of piss for that model. Try getting a memory upgrade. Try even ***asking** about a memory upgrade. Sounds like a joke.

 

So then TOS 1.0 sucks with mass storage, and 1.x (x>0) won't run some games. Hmmm. Anybody have experience with the TOS switcher? Is this really necessary? When the games are modded for running for HD, don't they fix that other stuff too? I noticed "Arkanoid" was in the list of stuff that doesn't run under "rainbow" TOS 1.4? Get out of town! This has been fixed? This will run from Ultrasatan?

 

Was there any incompatibility with the earlier (1.02, 1.2whatever) interim TOS revisions, or do the problems begin with 1.4? As for the IBM disk formatting, can't you just format on the IBM or run a "special" format program? I have not have much success with this, but I'm going to try again because I feel like I'm in special Atari ed at the moment. So far, Win XP won't recognize ST ***stock TOS 1.0*** formatted disc (says it's not formatted like it does for a Linux partition) and when it's formatted with the PC it seems extrememly unreliable on the ST. I haven't tried all known combinations of floppies and drives yet - I just didn't have initial success in downloading ST "fujiboink.prg" from Atarimania and putting it on an ST-readable floppy, which sounds simple yet didn't work. Yes, I feel like a retard.

 

I'm pretty jazzed at being around this stuff again. I tried getting into Amiga at the same time as re-entering the ST interest, and 2 things happened. All the STs I got worked (except for floppy drives) and my Amiga has problems. Somehow, I'm more interested in Rainbow TOS than putting more money into the Amiga. Guess it's what you grew up with.

 

Thanks for any "up to speed" info from the few people left in this country (US) who seem to still express interest in the ol' Sixteen-Thirty-two.

Edited April 27, 2010 by wood_jl

[+Guitarman]

It was all eye and ear candy, right up to the poine where Mega STe comes in. My bias? I have STm and STfm. I was under the impression that this is what I needed to "recapture the essence" of the experience. I tuned out in 1990 (I think) when I had 1040STf and 4MB and "whatever TOS it had in it" (which I think was 1.0). So merely matching those specs was, I figured, a good place to resume the ST experience. I prefer original 520ST. Then I buy a bunch of them and find out nobody gives a squirt of piss for that model. Try getting a memory upgrade. Try even ***asking** about a memory upgrade. Sounds like a joke.

 

So then TOS 1.0 sucks with mass storage, and 1.x (x>0) won't run some games. Hmmm. Anybody have experience with the TOS switcher? Is this really necessary? When the games are modded for running for HD, don't they fix that other stuff too? I noticed "Arkanoid" was in the list of stuff that doesn't run under "rainbow" TOS 1.4? Get out of town! This has been fixed? This will run from Ultrasatan?

 

Was there any incompatibility with the earlier (1.02, 1.2whatever) interim TOS revisions, or do the problems begin with 1.4? As for the IBM disk formatting, can't you just format on the IBM or run a "special" format program? I have not have much success with this, but I'm going to try again because I feel like I'm in special Atari ed at the moment. So far, Win XP won't recognize ST ***stock TOS 1.0*** formatted disc (says it's not formatted like it does for a Linux partition) and when it's formatted with the PC it seems extrememly unreliable on the ST. I haven't tried all known combinations of floppies and drives yet - I just didn't have initial success in downloading ST "fujiboink.prg" from Atarimania and putting it on an ST-readable floppy, which sounds simple yet didn't work. Yes, I feel like a retard.

 

I'm pretty jazzed at being around this stuff again. I tried getting into Amiga at the same time as re-entering the ST interest, and 2 things happened. All the STs I got worked (except for floppy drives) and my Amiga has problems. Somehow, I'm more interested in Rainbow TOS than putting more money into the Amiga. Guess it's what you grew up with.

 

Thanks for any "up to speed" info from the few people left in this country (US) who seem to still express interest in the ol' Sixteen-Thirty-two.

 

Rainbow TOS (TOS 1.4, 1.04) is the first fairly stable TOS as far as IBM disks are concerned. You will also want to make sure that the floppy drive is a double sided drive. Most of the early floppy drives were single side (SF-354). The STf could have a single sided drive but most had a double. With TOS 1.4, you can swap the disks between a PC and the ST. Most of my ST's that had anything older than 1.4, I modified. Here is the info from Wiki:

 

• 1.0 (ROM TOS) Earliest version released on disk. First ROM release of TOS.
  • Formats: floppy, 2 chip and 6 chip ROMs (192 KB)
  • Rom date: 20 Nov 1985
  • Machines: 520ST, 1040ST

  [*]1.02 (MEGA TOS) fixed bugs, supported Blitter co-processor and real-time clock.

  • Formats: 2 chip and 6 chip ROMs (192 KB)
  • Rom date: 22 Apr 1987
  • Machines: 520ST, 1040ST, Mega 2, Mega 4

  [*]1.04 (RAINBOW TOS) Many bug fixes, file selector changed, DOS-compatible disk formatting, much improved performance. However, compatibility problems with older software.

  • Formats: 2 chip and 6 chip ROMs (192 KB)
  • Rom date: 6 Apr 1989
  • Machines: 520ST, 1040ST, Mega 2, Mega 4, Stacy

  [*]1.06 (STE TOS, Revision 1) Support for STe machines only. Needed STE_FIX.PRG to patch bugs.

  • Format: 2 chip ROMs (256 KB)
  • Rom date: 29 Jul 1989
  • Machines: 520STE, 1040 STE

  [*]1.62 (STE TOS, Revision 2) bug fixes for the previous 1.06 STE TOS.

  • Format: 2 chip ROMs (256 KB)
  • Rom date: 1 Jan 1990
  • Machines: 520STE, 1040 STE

[+DarkLord]

 

It was all eye and ear candy, right up to the point where Mega STe comes in. My bias? I have STm and STfm. I was under the impression that this is what I needed to "recapture the essence" of the experience. I tuned out in 1990 (I think) when I had 1040STf and 4MB and "whatever TOS it had in it" (which I think was 1.0). So merely matching those specs was, I figured, a good place to resume the ST experience. I prefer original 520ST. Then I buy a bunch of them and find out nobody gives a squirt of piss for that model. Try getting a memory upgrade. Try even ***asking** about a memory upgrade. Sounds like a joke.

 

It wasn't a bad idea - you just have to understand the limitations. I like the original 520ST as well - still makes my eyes cross when I think about where they put the joystick/mouse ports on later models.

 

I agree - it is difficult to upgrade those models.

 

So then TOS 1.0 sucks with mass storage, and 1.x (x>0) won't run some games. Hmmm. Anybody have experience with the TOS switcher? Is this really necessary? When the games are modded for running for HD, don't they fix that other stuff too? I noticed "Arkanoid" was in the list of stuff that doesn't run under "rainbow" TOS 1.4? Get out of town! This has been fixed? This will run from Ultrasatan?

 

Yes, lots of the "adjusted" games work much better now, even to the point of working on the Falcon. I'm running Ultima 3, 4, and 5 off the UltraSatan, for example - I love it.

 

Its kinda hard to just pick out one game and say oh well, this won't work so the whole concept doesn't work. Its not like that - there are some games that won't (and you know Murphy's Law - it'll probably be your favorite!) work, but many will. You'll just have to download them and try them out.

 

As far as the games compatibility vs updated TOS problem, I know what I would do. I'd upgrade the machine to version 1.4 of TOS so your mass storage problems are covered, then I'd get SELTOS or one of the TOS disks and boot up into that older version of TOS that's needed for older game X, when I was playing them.

 

Was there any incompatibility with the earlier (1.02, 1.2whatever) interim TOS revisions, or do the problems begin with 1.4? As for the IBM disk formatting, can't you just format on the IBM or run a "special" format program? I have not have much success with this, but I'm going to try again because I feel like I'm in special Atari ed at the moment. So far, Win XP won't recognize ST ***stock TOS 1.0*** formatted disc (says it's not formatted like it does for a Linux partition) and when it's formatted with the PC it seems extrememly unreliable on the ST. I haven't tried all known combinations of floppies and drives yet - I just didn't have initial success in downloading ST "fujiboink.prg" from Atarimania and putting it on an ST-readable floppy, which sounds simple yet didn't work. Yes, I feel like a retard.

 

I'm not sure, so forgive me if I make a mistake - but it wasn't until TOS v1.4 that the PC compatible floppy disks were added.

 

And don't feel like a retard - the only dumb question is the one not asked.

 

I'm pretty jazzed at being around this stuff again. I tried getting into Amiga at the same time as re-entering the ST interest, and 2 things happened. All the STs I got worked (except for floppy drives) and my Amiga has problems. Somehow, I'm more interested in Rainbow TOS than putting more money into the Amiga. Guess it's what you grew up with.

 

Thanks for any "up to speed" info from the few people left in this country (US) who seem to still express interest in the ol' Sixteen-Thirty-two.

 

I'm always excited when I start talking about my Atari STuff - I guess I will be until the last breath leaves my dying body. I prefer it that way.

 

You know, I've tried getting "into" the Amiga scene. I've even owned several. I just sold my last A1200 on Ebay this weekend. Maybe I've got "Fuji-Vision" or something, but while the Amiga's were technical marvels for their time, I just can't seen to get behind them like my Atari stuff. Oh well - wife says I can't afford it or have room for it anyways... LOL

 

Don't worry - there are more of us than you know! (and just a couple of years ago us Atarians were granted religious status as a cult, so the hordes of Windows users can't exterminate us by sheer numbers)...

 

HTHs.

[Tempest]

I'll have to look into the DBUG stuff. One day I'll get around to fiddling with the other shells and desktops, but for right now if I can play games from my HD and turn off that keyboard beep (seriously, I can't believe they did that) I'll be happy.

 

Tempest

[Paolo]

Sorry if I reply with a non-reply, but I wanted to tell you that the blip is extremely easy to stop (IIRC starting off with the CPX upto a ton of utilities).

But, really, ifyou turn it off, how will you know when you have jammed keys (blip,... blip,... blipblipblipblipblip)? hehe!

[+wood_jl]

 

I agree - it is difficult to upgrade those models.

 

I suppose I could order an upgrade (New World/1/2) from BEST or send computer to them and pay for them to install it. Starting to look like that's the only option, as there's nare a Yankee Alive anymore who does ST upgrades, that is excluding the "super tech" at BEST. I hope he doesn't die before I scrape up the moolah. Otherwise I'll have to have ST firesale and go to Amiga.

 

Yes, lots of the "adjusted" games work much better now, even to the point of working on the Falcon. I'm running Ultima 3, 4, and 5 off the UltraSatan, for example - I love it.

 

Its kinda hard to just pick out one game and say oh well, this won't work so the whole concept doesn't work. Its not like that - there are some games that won't (and you know Murphy's Law - it'll probably be your favorite!) work, but many will. You'll just have to download them and try them out.

 

As far as the games compatibility vs updated TOS problem, I know what I would do. I'd upgrade the machine to version 1.4 of TOS so your mass storage problems are covered, then I'd get SELTOS or one of the TOS disks and boot up into that older version of TOS that's needed for older game X, when I was playing them.

 

Don't want nobody messin with ST Arkanoid, 1 or 2. Sundog, Dungeonmaster, Starglider, Hex, Major Motion, HEX, Joust, Star Raiders, Super Sprint, Moon Patrol. The Pawn. These are the ones I remember. These would be nice! "Fixed" versions to run off HD with TOS 1.4, anyone? So if you have a boatload of RAM, you can just load a lower version of TOS off disk? If you have 4 Megs and only need 512K-1MB, then "PFFT!!!" Why all this fooling with TOS switchers? I must not know the whole side of the story!

 

I'm not sure, so forgive me if I make a mistake - but it wasn't until TOS v1.4 that the PC compatible floppy disks were added.

 

But I thought you could still read a correctly-formatted (whichever/whatever that meant) floppy on the other machine. Now which one formats correctly?

And don't feel like a retard - the only dumb question is the one not asked.

 

I'm always excited when I start talking about my Atari STuff - I guess I will be until the last breath leaves my dying body. I prefer it that way.

 

You know, I've tried getting "into" the Amiga scene. I've even owned several. I just sold my last A1200 on Ebay this weekend. Maybe I've got "Fuji-Vision" or something, but while the Amiga's were technical marvels for their time, I just can't seen to get behind them like my Atari stuff. Oh well - wife says I can't afford it or have room

 

I'm pretty pleased with my ST dealings so far. I have had some problems with my specific Amiga. I have kind of lost the will. The ST is what I had when I was a teenager, and was a big deal to me. Therefore, I'm just naturally more interested. While I've forgotten pretty much everything ST-wise it is easy to get back up to speed on. Simpler machine still has advantages. Half the fun so far with the ST has been reliving the big deal that it was for me in 1985, as a teenager who liked Atari and computers. The other half has been that the STuff - at least ST/STm stuff - has been pretty reliable so far. I blame the manufacturer of the floppy mechanism - rather than Atari - for the only hardware failure I've had so far on 4 20-something-old machines.

[Tempest]

TOS Switchers? Tell me more. TOS 2.06 has some compatibility issues (or so I hear) and that could help.

 

Tempest

[+CyranoJ]

Hi Tempest!

 

Nearly everything patched on the D-Bug site is TOS fixed as well. If you get any issues (that aren't in the notes on the download page) please let us know via our forums.

 

Happy gaming!

[Tempest]

Hi Tempest!

 

Nearly everything patched on the D-Bug site is TOS fixed as well. If you get any issues (that aren't in the notes on the download page) please let us know via our forums.

 

Happy gaming!

Great I'll take a look.

 

Tempest

[tjlazer]

TOS 1.4 is fine and a lot of stuff works fine on it. You can get a TOS 1.0 boot disk and reTOS to the old version for the stubborn old stuff. You need 1MB RAM though as this TOS disk will eat up RAM to load it.

 

Arkanoid only works with TOS 1.0, but I found a cracked disk that has been patched to work on all TOS versions. If you want I can upload it here. Keep looking, a lot of stuff that was not working on 1.4 has been fixed, not to mention the HD patched stuff now too that will run off HD.

 

 

IMHO there is no need for a TOS switcher, its not worth it. Just use a TOS boot disk, works really well!

[Shredder11]

I love Arkanoid but I hate the fact that the ST version only works with the mouse and joystick; I want to use the damn keyboard because I prefer this to anything else, plus I grew up with nearly ALL my 8-bit computer games allowing re-definable keys! Anyway I would be interested in the universal TOS compatible version you have.