Another User St Haul..

[GrandviewCoin]

So I got 2 1040STf's with hardrives, 2 color monitors, 1 monochrome and a variety of software.

 

Questions I have!

 

1. both STf's worked fine after doing the 'drop'. What should I be looking to do overhaul these?

re-seat all chips? add new TOS chips?

 

2. One of them has a cord sticking out from practical solutions that has 3 RCA female connectors on it labeled A B C. What is this?

 

3. Who would I goto for a better than version 1.0 of TOS?

 

4. The RCA computer supposedly has a ram upgrade, how do I find how much it has now.

 

5. How do the hard drives function? do I need driver disks?

 

Thanks!

 

Dan

Edited April 29, 2010 by GrandviewCoin

[+Stephen Moss]

So I got 2 1040STf's with hardrives, 2 color monitors, 1 monochrome and a variety of software.

 

Questions I have!

 

1. both STf's worked fine after doing the 'drop'. What should I be looking to do overhaul these?

re-seat all chips? add new TOS chips?

AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH! I do wish people would stop perpetuating this "drop Test" bollocks, it is more likely to do harm than good.

Just becuase someone once reported that they did it and it appearenty made things work does not mean is a cure all solution, it certainly is not a good solution or the correct thing to do. I bet they did not bother to report that they had to do it again a few weeks/month later because it never really solved the problem.

If you want/need to re-seat you socketed IC and connectors take the bloody thing appart and press them down by hand.

 

2. One of them has a cord sticking out from practical solutions that has 3 RCA female connectors on it labeled A B C. What is this?

No idea, the ABC labeling is a little odd but as they are STf's and have no modulated output for connecting to a TV they could be a composite video and L/R audio output mod.

 

3. Who would I goto for a better than version 1.0 of TOS?

Being in the UK I am not up to date all US outlets but you could try ATY Computers or B & C Computer Visions. If you are upgrading then if possible go for TOS 1.04 or 1.06

 

4. The RCA computer supposedly has a ram upgrade, how do I find how much it has now.

Try SysInfo or if you do not already have it get a copy of the Xcontrol control panel as it is better than the original control panel and it does list the TOS version and amount of RAM fitted somewhere.

 

5. How do the hard drives function? do I need driver disks?

You may need a driver disk if they have not been formatted and/or had the driver software installed on them, in they have been both formatted and already have the driver software on them then all you need to do is connect them to the ST, turn the HD on first and then the ST a couple of seconds later and it should then check the floppy drive and providing there is no floppy in there boot from the HD.

HD Driver is probably the most used driver software by Atari owners but there are others like IDC Pro and the old Atari AHDI program.

[GrandviewCoin]

The 'drop' is actually in a few Atari ST FAQ's I have found.

 

Here is the verse..

 

3.5 The Universal 4 Inch Drop Fix.

 

A common problem on Atari ST computers is socketed chip connections coming loose. The symptoms are erratic behaviour, sudden resets, unexpected bombs, blank screen (white), disk errors, etc... This is the result of the PCB aging, heating, dilating, warping, slowly easing the chips out of there sockets.

 

A common, and quick fix to this is the famous 4 inch drop, and it goes like this:

 

* Switch off the machine,

* Lift it horizontally about 4 inches (10 cm) above the desktop,

* Drop it.

 

As silly as it may sound, this sometimes works, reseating the chips and solving the problem. The result is not 100% guaranteed however. If the problem still occurs you probably have a more serious problem.

 

Of course, another (more professional) option is to take apart the machine and reseat all the chips by hand.

[+DarkLord]

So I got 2 1040STf's with hardrives, 2 color monitors, 1 monochrome and a variety of software.

 

Questions I have!

 

1. both STf's worked fine after doing the 'drop'. What should I be looking to do overhaul these?

re-seat all chips? add new TOS chips?

 

2. One of them has a cord sticking out from practical solutions that has 3 RCA female connectors on it labeled A B C. What is this?

 

3. Who would I goto for a better than version 1.0 of TOS?

 

4. The RCA computer supposedly has a ram upgrade, how do I find how much it has now.

 

5. How do the hard drives function? do I need driver disks?

 

Thanks!

 

Dan

 

1. If the drop "cured" the problems, so to speak - then you should take them apart

and carefully clean/reseat all the socketed chips.

 

2. Not 100% sure but it sounds like the Tweety-Board - an audio upgrade. Plug it

into some cheap/handy speakers while a game is playing and see what comes out.

 

3. I would definitely upgrade it to at least TOS 1.4 - you can get them from Best

Electronics, B&C Computervisions, etc - but they will cost more. The cheapest route

would be to check Ebay, or advertise here, at AtariAge, or at AtariForums and try

to get them from some user.

 

4. Like Stephen said, Sysinfo is your friend.

 

5. The hard drives have to be setup properly, and have driver software like

 

AHDI - Atari's HD software - old, and not as capable, but free. No longer supported.

 

ICD Pro Utilities - newer than AHDI and much more capable, and free. No longer supported.

 

HDDriver v8.xx - the best by far, and still supported by Uwe Seimet but commercial.

 

HTHs.

[Tempest]

2. Not 100% sure but it sounds like the Tweety-Board - an audio upgrade. Plug it

into some cheap/handy speakers while a game is playing and see what comes out.

Gotta be what it is. I have one of those sticking out of my Mega 4.

 

 

So what's the functional difference between AHDI and ICD Pro Utilities? I have AHDI on my Mega STE and it seems to work just fine. Is there a reason to install ICD Pro?

 

Tempest

[+DarkLord]

So what's the functional difference between AHDI and ICD Pro Utilities? I have AHDI on my Mega STE and it seems to work just fine. Is there a reason to install ICD Pro?

 

Tempest

 

More features, better hardware support, faster performance...etc, etc,...

 

Otherwise, if you're doing fine with AHDI then all is well.

 

HDDRiver is still the best though.

[GrandviewCoin]

So I agree after seeing other tweety board pics.

 

So what good is the stereo upgrade used for? Any software take advantage of it. By that I mean games, not music software.

 

And yeah, I am gonna take both ST's apart and reseat the chips. I would love to have TOS 1.4 by then to do it all at once.

Edited April 29, 2010 by GrandviewCoin

[GrandviewCoin]

So I just looked at the two mentioned websites.

 

Are there really people paying 200$ for a refurbed 1040stf and 120 or more for a monitor? Really? Seriously?

 

Is there a sub culture that uses these actively?

[+Stephen Moss]

The 'drop' is actually in a few Atari ST FAQ's I have found.

 

Here is the verse..

 

3.5 The Universal 4 Inch Drop Fix.

 

A common problem on Atari ST computers is socketed chip connections coming loose. The symptoms are erratic behaviour, sudden resets, unexpected bombs, blank screen (white), disk errors, etc... This is the result of the PCB aging, heating, dilating, warping, slowly easing the chips out of there sockets.

 

A common, and quick fix to this is the famous 4 inch drop, and it goes like this:

 

* Switch off the machine,

* Lift it horizontally about 4 inches (10 cm) above the desktop,

* Drop it.

 

As silly as it may sound, this sometimes works, reseating the chips and solving the problem. The result is not 100% guaranteed however. If the problem still occurs you probably have a more serious problem.

 

Of course, another (more professional) option is to take apart the machine and reseat all the chips by hand.

 

Just because the drop test mentioned in several FAQ's does not mean that it is true. An untruth does not become true the more widley it is known, it is just percieved to be true.

The "drop" test may fix problems created by dry joints (bad solder joints) that become intermittent as the result of the small amount of expansion and contraction of the PCB with changes in heat, but it is only a temporary fix as the PCB will continue to expand and contract and the fault will re-occur. The drop test is more likely to have a detremental effect in terms of exposing more dry joints and creating floppy/hard drive head alignment problems than it is to re-seat an IC.

 

If have inserted and removed IC's from sockets hundreds if not thousends of times and it will take more than the minute amount of force created by any drop test to have any significant effect in re-seating an IC into a socket, the only way the force generated by a drop test could have any significent re-seating effect would be if the sockets are so loose the ICs would fall out if you turned your ST upside down and gave it a tap.

I have repaired equipement built in the 1960s with the ICs still firmly seated in their sockets which in conjucntion with the general tightness of IC sockets means that I personally do not subscribe to the theory of socket creep, while you may find ICs in your ST that are not fully seated in their sockets is is my opinion that that the reason for that was because they were not fully seated during production and that they are no looser in their sockets now than the day it was made.

[+wood_jl]

Wikipedia likes to tout the "Atari Twist" and "Atari Drop."

 

I can't imagine that twisting the case would accomplish anything. Sure, you can twist the Tramiel-cheapy case of the XE and ST a little if you try, but c'mon - is this really going to flex the motherboard enough to affect change in socketed chips? Sounds hokey to me....

 

 

As far as the "Atari Drop" - please tell me (at the very least) they were talking about the OLD 520ST - the one WITHOUT the floppy drive in. Surely most people would have better sense than to jar something as sensitive and precision-aligned as a floppy mechanism, with the 1040ST and subsequent models? Maybe people didn't differentiate.

[+DarkLord]

Wikipedia likes to tout the "Atari Twist" and "Atari Drop."

 

I can't imagine that twisting the case would accomplish anything. Sure, you can twist the Tramiel-cheapy case of the XE and ST a little if you try, but c'mon - is this really going to flex the motherboard enough to affect change in socketed chips? Sounds hokey to me....

 

 

As far as the "Atari Drop" - please tell me (at the very least) they were talking about the OLD 520ST - the one WITHOUT the floppy drive in. Surely most people would have better sense than to jar something as sensitive and precision-aligned as a floppy mechanism, with the 1040ST and subsequent models? Maybe people didn't differentiate.

 

When I first heard about it, it wsa for the 520ST - seemed they suffered a lot from "chip creep", although, its

also possible it was explainable as that one user posted. None-the-less, the 6" drop worked. I used it a couple of

times myself - although I always followed up with taking the machine apart, pulling all the socketed chips, cleaning

them, and reseating them.

 

For what its worth, because I was curious at the time, I called Atari Customer support back then, and they did

recommend it over the phone. Strange...but true.

[tjlazer]

The drop fix does work. I have several ST computers and the worst are the 520ST. In fact I have one that I have to do the drop on alot to get it to work. Yes I did dismantle it and reseat all the chips but something is wrong and it needs a jarring to get it working pretty much every time I use it. From new hauls of ST's that I have got, that did not initially work, the "drop" was a quick way to see if the unit was working. Ofcourse I dismantled it and cleaned it all up and resat all chips, upgraded TOS to 1.4, etc...

 

My first 520STm back in 1986, had a quirk that I was not happy about. It would not sit level on the desk. It seemed the case was twisted a bit. I bet this caused a lot of these to have issues, that is why the twist works???

Edited May 6, 2010 by tjlazer

[+CyranoJ]

HDDRiver is still the best though.

 

HD Driver is the most common. It's by no means the most memory efficient, which, if you intend to run HD patched games, puts it a long, long way from being "the best."

[+Stephen Moss]

The drop fix does work. I have several ST computers and the worst are the 520ST. In fact I have one that I have to do the drop on alot to get it to work.

Surely the fact that you have to drop it a lot indicates that drop fix does not work beyond being the temporary fix for dry joints that will only re-occur some time in the future as I mentioned earlier.

Try finding the problem and solving it permamantly by looking at the underside of the PCB for any joints that look different to the majority of joints, for example they may not have solder all the way around them or they look duller then the others and/or pitted then re-heat them with a soldering iron, adding a little more solder to those joints that do not have it all the way around.

[carmel_andrews]

I thought the 'Atari Drop' thing only applied to ST's and STE's with blitter chips, never heard it mentioned in a general sense like this example

[+DarkLord]

HD Driver is the most common. It's by no means the most memory efficient, which, if you intend to run HD patched games, puts it a long, long way from being "the best."

 

For features, hardware support, and the fact that it is *still* being

developed and supported...well, it gets my vote.

[+DarkLord]

I thought the 'Atari Drop' thing only applied to ST's and STE's with blitter chips, never heard it mentioned in a general sense like this example

 

Don't think so - I can distinctly remember that from very early in the

ST years...