RAM 320XL

[Fox-1 / mnx]

will it work with an XEGS?

Where would you stick it? (no pun intended :-)

[Almost Rice]

I did not get my PAL 16k 600xl with NTSC Antic to work except for when I unjumper the upgrade, but could not test much because of the 16k.

 

Please could you test the 256kB in that mode?

 

I will when I get home.

 

 

I only got a blank screen for the 130xe and 1200xl with PBI converter I had.

 

What kind of PBI extender is it? I saw some photo of an ICD PBI expander (IIRC) and it looked as a passive piece of PCB. I'm really interested how they connected the CASINH signal, which is not present on the Cart/ECI BUS and RAM320Xl needs it.

 

I have am using the extender in the link for the 1200xl and a ICD extender for the 130xe. I guess RAM320xl will not work without modifications to the system and extender. In that case, I will probably not do more testing anytime soon since I bought them for use on the 600xl. I was only testing them because I had the 1200xl and 130xe sitting around.

[Almost Rice]

I got the 1200 to work. It runs if the jumper is not set. I was able to run the same tests on as the 800xl and 64k 600xl.

 

The 130xe does not work even when the jumper is off. I could not get much tested on the PAL 16k 600xl. There is not enough base ram with the jumper off to boot into a DOS. Is there a 16k dos?

[+wood_jl]

I got the 1200 to work. It runs if the jumper is not set. I was able to run the same tests on as the 800xl and 64k 600xl.

 

Very cool! The fact that you did it with 1200XL all the more impressive.

 

You have achieved holy grail status. It has been a minor fantasy of mine to run Numen (and other ultra-cool-Euro-software) on my own real hardware for some time. New PAL 800XL....check! JVC TM-A13SU NTSC/PAL monitor....check. And now for RAM 320XL.....<insert drum roll here>.....

[+wood_jl]

 

I did have a few problems while testing. I did not get my PAL 16k 600xl with NTSC Antic to work except for when I unjumper the upgrade, but could not test much because of the 16k.

I only got a blank screen for the 130xe and 1200xl with PBI converter I had. The 2 systems I used to test were a stock 800xl and 64k 600xl with composite mod. They worked, but 1 of the 3 had to be unjumpered to completely load Yie Ar KungFu to the last screen before the game starts.

 

I got the 1200 to work. It runs if the jumper is not set. I was able to run the same tests on as the 800xl and 64k 600xl.

The 130xe does not work even when the jumper is off. I could not get much tested on the PAL 16k 600xl. There is not enough base ram with the jumper off to boot into a DOS. Is there a 16k dos?

 

Sorry for being dense, but I don't understand what the jumper is doing. Why does the base ram on the 600XL matter? Does this mean you must have a 64K 600XL for this to work as 320K? Apologies for "not getting it" here.

[Almost Rice]

Sorry for being dense, but I don't understand what the jumper is doing. Why does the base ram on the 600XL matter? Does this mean you must have a 64K 600XL for this to work as 320K? Apologies for "not getting it" here.

 

As I understand it, ctirad tells me that with the jumper off the base 64k is the internal ram + 256k on the 320xl. With the upgrade jumpered, 64k + 256k is used from the upgrade. One of my upgrades has problems and can not complete all my current tests while jumpered. The PAL 600xl has problems using the upgrade jumpered. Unjumpered, the oddball 16k+256k configuration on the PAL 600xl is not that useful. I have checked and all the PBI pins from the 600xl board are connected to the upgrade.

 

So the PAL 16k 600xl would need to be jumpered to load DOS. I have a PBI 64k upgrade with a pass-through, but I left it at my dad's house. I may just add the 64k internal upgrade to the PAL 600xl, but I would rather find the problem because this system was the reason I bought these boards.

 

 

 

On another note, the upgrade uses a 512k SRAM. I guess with extensive enough internal modifications the ram could be fully utilized, but that would defeat the plug&play purpose of this upgrade.

Edited July 10, 2010 by Almost Rice

[Wilheim]

Look at those heavy-hitters at the end of the list! 3x and 4x standard! Ha ha they better come last! :)

 

No problem, I'm patient. I'm representing 3 persons who are interested in there, and wanted to save shipping costs, that's all.

[+skr]

Is there a 16k dos?

 

I am not sure if it fits into 16k, but the smallest DOS I know is XDOS from S. Dorndorf. Find it on the ABBUC Magazine Disk 94 Side b:

 

http://www.abbuc.de/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownload&cid=31&min=90&orderby=titleA&show=10

[+Larry]

Now that is cool -- a 1200XL with an add-on PBI, with an add-on (plug-and-play) 320K memory upgrade! Almost as cool as a 600XL with 320K. Who would ever have thought, even a few years ago.

-Larry

 

BTW, what are the Length X Width dimensions of a 600XL? (I've never had one.)

 

 

I got the 1200 to work. It runs if the jumper is not set. I was able to run the same tests on as the 800xl and 64k 600xl.

(snip...)

Edited July 10, 2010 by Larry

[Almost Rice]

Almost as cool as a 600XL with 320K. Who would ever have thought, even a few years ago.

-Larry

 

BTW, what are the Length X Width dimensions of a 600XL? (I've never had one.)

IMO, the 600xl with 320k is the coolest. Look at the size of the system. The 1200xl would be better with an internal upgrade. I only tested it because it was sitting around. the 600xl with 320K looks like right at home the way it is. If you have a 800xl, the 600xl's dimensions height and width and about 2 inches shorter in length.

 

Edited July 10, 2010 by Almost Rice

[+wood_jl]

 

IMO, the 600xl with 320k is the coolest. Look at the size of the system. The 1200xl would be better with an internal upgrade. I only tested it because it was sitting around. the 600xl with 320K looks like right at home the way it is. If you have a 800xl, the 600xl's dimensions height and width and about 2 inches shorter in length.

 

Lucky for you, your 600XL has a monitor port.

[walter_J64bit]

 

IMO, the 600xl with 320k is the coolest. Look at the size of the system. The 1200xl would be better with an internal upgrade. I only tested it because it was sitting around. the 600xl with 320K looks like right at home the way it is. If you have a 800xl, the 600xl's dimensions height and width and about 2 inches shorter in length.

 

Lucky for you, your 600XL has a monitor port.

Why didn't Atari put a monitor port on the NTSC 600XL, I know one thing it sucks having mod the 600Xl just to to able to use it with monitor.

[ctirad]

Sorry for being dense, but I don't understand what the jumper is doing. Why does the base ram on the 600XL matter? Does this mean you must have a 64K 600XL for this to work as 320K? Apologies for "not getting it" here.

 

The RAM 320XL card can work in two modes switchable via jumper:

1. standard mode, which adds 256kB of expansion memory in addition to your base memory, no matter if it is 64kB or 16kB. This is the way, how any other memory expansion works.

2. mode with remaped base RAM. In this mode, the internal RAM is disabled completely via the singal "EXTSEL" and the additional 64kB RAM bank is used from the RAM 320XL device.

 

The importatnt thing is, that for a standard unmodified 64kB machine these two modes are completely identical from a software point of view. They have same amount of total memory, same banking scheme, same compatibility grade. So why there are the two modes? Because there are some important side effects of the second mode:

a) if you have a 16kB machine, then it's upgraded to 64kB + 256kB instead of 16kB + 256KB

b) if you have a faulty base memory, this will "fix" it.

c) if you already have some common internal memory expansion of any size installed, it will be automatically disabled to avoid conflict on the BUS and possible damage.

 

Actually the first mode is important just for a few users who does use any unusual expansion, such as VBXE or for debbuging purposes.

 

Almos Rice is a specific case, because the second mode does not work on his 16kB 600XL. It seems, that the internal RAM is not disabled in that mode and conflicts with the new RAM. Whe have to find, if it is due to some modification in past, unusual motherboard revision or so.

[Defender II]

@ctirad

 

Did you read my last PM?

I would like to pay you right away. When will you be shipping?

[Almost Rice]

Lucky for you, your 600XL has a monitor port.

No luck involved at all I had 2. Just forgot about having a second PAL 600xl. The PAL 600xl I was testing had a PAL Antic, I found out when trying to put the other PAL Antic back in. So I dug in my pile of 600xl and found the NTSC Antic PAL 600xl. It works, but Numen does not work because of the Antic.

 

 

 

Why didn't Atari put a monitor port on the NTSC 600XL, I know one thing it sucks having mod the 600Xl just to to able to use it with monitor.

This annoyed me too. I looked at the cost of adding the monitor port and just started to look out for PAL 600xl because the cost of the monitor port parts and PAL Antic was more expensive than getting a PAL 600xl. The 2 I got was probably less than $30 each shipped to me. I remember getting one about 4 years ago. Both were from someone in the US so shipping was relatively cheap. My plans were long term. I was hoping to find a Yorkie, but ctirad's little project appeared. This allowed me what I wanted which was a cheap way to upgrade to 256k. the 320xl was just 64k better and maybe 512k if I dont mind hacking into the 600xl.

 

Also, I noticed the 600xl also get better keyboard. The cheap mylar XL keyboards tend to be on the 800xl. Everyone of my 600xl are factory socketed. I had at least 2 800xl where all the big chips were soldered.

 

As you can see none of these 600xls have the common mylar keyboard.

3 NTSC 2 PAL

 

 

 

 

 

These 3 have the same keyboard. This is my favorite XL keyboard. It just happens to be in both the PAL 600xl.

PAL 600xl w. NTSC Antic

PAL 600xl

NTSC 600xl

 

 

 

 

 

 

These 2 have the same keyboard.

64k NTSC 600xl 16k 600xl

 

As you can see I like the 600xl form factor. It took a lot of effort not to order more of ctirad's upgrade.

Edited July 12, 2010 by Almost Rice

[Rybags]

OK, I'm late onto the bandwagon here but am very tempted to grab one.

 

Can't find any pricing in this thread for the unit, plus what would postage to Australia be?

 

Also, do you accept PayPal?

Edited July 12, 2010 by Rybags

[flashjazzcat]

As you can see I like the 600xl form factor. It took a lot of effort not to order more of ctirad's upgrade.

Wow! You appear to actually own six hundred XLs...

Edited July 12, 2010 by flashjazzcat

[+wood_jl]

The only problem I am thinking with the "favorite" keyboard - is it's kind of flimsy, if it's the one I am thinking of.

 

I have 3 800XLs.

 

Two have the "other" keyboard - like the 2 600XLs you have. The CONTROL key is in inverse print - in a large white box. The keys are textured a tiny bit rough. If you hit the edge of the rather large left SHIFT key, it kind of binds a little. The entire keyboard isn't bad and doesn't bind, but it feels a little stiff. There is a metal backing to the keyboard.

 

The keyboard which is smoother (favorite?) - and does not have CONTROL in inverse (although it is in a box) is much easier to type on. If you look between the keys, you see the brown backing board. This was my favorite XL keyboard and the feel is very good. The trouble is, it's just flimsy. You can watch it flex when you're typing, which isn't so much the problem. What is the problem is you can never get rid of the RF shield. On my 800XL that has this keyboard, there is a rubber block glued to the RF shield, to support the middle of the brown backing board. I am wanting Atarimax 32-in-1 OS and I believe I have read that on some machines you must modify or dispose of the RF shield. If that's the case, the smooth flimsy keyboard is out of the question.

[flashjazzcat]

My 600XL has the same "smooth" keyboard with the boxed out "CONTROL" key, and it's my favourite to type on too. I have the RF shield removed but the flexing doesn't trouble me too much. Why not come up with some kind of larger rubber block which buts up against a vacant spot on the motherboard underneath?

 

 

 

[Rybags]

I think the metal backing plate provides even more support than the shielding.

 

My 600XL has stepped keys (not the higher quality one though) with exposed board under which isn't anchored real well but the machine has shielding.

 

My 800XL has a more solid feeling keyboard although it's the less desirable flat one, has the backing plate but my machine has the shielding removed.

[ctirad]

OK, I'm late onto the bandwagon here but am very tempted to grab one.

Can't find any pricing in this thread for the unit, plus what would postage to Australia be?

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/162420-ram-320xl/page__view__findpost__p__2035120

 

And the shipping about 5-6EUR i think.

 

Also, do you accept PayPal?

 

Yes.

[Rybags]

OK... just got to work out my budget, but expect an order from me real soon.

 

Has anyone got photos of the "full" enclosed version from various angles?

[+Larry]

It would not surprise me if this upgrade eventually becomes the most popular upgrade in recent times in terms of units sold. Hope Ctirad doesn't get tired of soldering or can find a suitable subcontractor to help with assembly! The only drawback that I can see is that it rules out all PBI hard drives, leaving only the MyIDE as a HD option. But even with that, many folks will likely be quite satisfied with an SDrive-type device since they can run almost as fast as the MyIDE. Using Pokey divisor of "0" with Hias' wonderful SIO patches, an S-Drive (or APE) runs less than 5% slower than an internal MyIDE (on my benchmarks). Perhaps at some point we will get a faster internal HD that will co-exist with this memory expansion. (?)

-Larry

 

OK... just got to work out my budget, but expect an order from me real soon.

 

Has anyone got photos of the "full" enclosed version from various angles?

[+Philsan]

So even for the 800XL we don't need the Power Cable and don't need to run a jumper wire?

 

Well, a sort of. But I would not use this kind of powering for a regular use.

Can you explain?

What are the problems? Hardware? Software?

It is important to know this because your device could be even more succesfull if no soldering or pigtal are required for a normal 800XL use.

[ctirad]

Can you explain?

What are the problems? Hardware? Software?

 

Hardware, of course. The power is "stolen" from 6502 BUS, which is not supposed to. The CPU will be more hot and there is a possibility of damage. Also, the gained voltage of 2.6V is below the specs of both RAM and CPLD.

Yes, it can somewhat work, but it is not safe. Forget it.