Dreamcast Woes

[jr2084]

So I've got this Dreamcast that spins up and continuously spins at the "Dreamcast" screen after the little orange swirl is made. I looked online and did the laser calibration, but is to no avail. Anyone have any suggestions or have had this problem before? I'd appreciate the help

[superdevil]

So I've got this Dreamcast that spins up and continuously spins at the "Dreamcast" screen after the little orange swirl is made. I looked online and did the laser calibration, but is to no avail. Anyone have any suggestions or have had this problem before? I'd appreciate the help

 

 

I've had probably a half dozen Dreamcasts in the last decade, and I've only ever had one that ended up crapping out like you describe. Nothing worked until I replaced the laser, and it was good to go from then on out.

[famicommander]

Have you been playing burned games?

[jr2084]

I bought this Dreamcast at a yard sale from a family with a bunch of little kids and about 15 games or so. I'm almost positive they didn't play burned games on it because when I bought it they weren't sure what it was lol. But damn, so a replacement laser assembly would be my only route? I also found an assembly on Ebay but it says its for a model 2 dreamcast? How do I go about determining the model of mine, it's a sega sports version btw.

Edited May 23, 2010 by jr2084

[Trooper]

Too bad about not having played burned games on it, because that would have been the first confirmed occurence ever of that leading to a crapped out laser. It's always brought up in discussions that playing CD-R's on the DC will put so much strain on the laser assembly that it will crap out in no time but no one ever have first hand knowledge on the subject it's always the classic "friend of a friend" who's had it happen...

[+wood_jl]

Is there any truth to these allegations of damage to the laser by playing burned games?

 

I mean, how, exactly, can this occur? The laser just shines on the disc, right? Why would the laser "care" what kind of disc it is? I would think the disc would either read or not read.

 

So the Dreamcast effectively detects (intelligently??) that there's a CD-R in there, then purposely "strains" at the laser to the point of burn-out? Exactly how does this happen?

 

I have never tried a burned disc in either of mine; I was under the impression you needed a mod chip, but I guess I'm glad if it kills them.

[Trooper]

The theory is that the laser has to move back and forth much more since the laser assembly was built to read GD-ROMs that have a different layout than CD-Rs and that would wear out the laserassembly much faster. This is probably true but the question is, will it be in this century? I've got the same DC I've had for the last 7-8 years and I've been usin lots and lots of emulatordiscs in it whithout any problems whatsoever. Like I said, I have yet to come upon someone who's actually had their own DC crap ut on them because of the CD-R "issue" it's always "a friends friend" or the like.

[famicommander]

I've seen a dozen Dreamcasts die out, and all of them were used for backups or emulators. The reason it was never MY Dreamcast is because I was never dumb enough to put my system at risk. But my friends and I were very into the Dreamcast scene when it was brand new, and many of them wasted their consoles playing burned games. Likewise, if you visit websites like DCemu or Racketboy you'll find many people who've had the problem themselves.

 

Just because yours has not personally died doesn't mean it isn't happening. Just like pointing out one Xbox 360 that hasn't gotten the red ring doesn't mean that it isn't a problem.

 

It's pretty well-known that the laser mechanism has to work twice as hard to read content off a CD-R. This is because the data is better arranged on a GD-ROM, thus allowing for less stress during disc access and more data to be cached at a time. Consider a GD-ROM. Let's say that the files are burned in order a,b,c,d,e. Thus, when the laser is done reading a it will be in need of b. The data is written onto the disc such that b will immediately follow a in terms of where the laser is naturally going to move. But when you convert a GD-ROM to CD-ROM, that order is not preserved unless the person doing the backup specifically orders it as such. This is because a GD-ROM holds more data than a CD-ROM, and also because many burning programs sort data differently. So on a CD-ROM, the data might be in the order a,f,e,c,b. As such, the laser mechanism will have to seek more often.

 

Further, a pressed disc is always easier on the laser itself than a burned disc. This is because a pressed disc reflects more light. And that rings true for all forms of optical media. So a burned disc will require more work from the laser to get the same amount of data.

 

Finally, it is a known fact that the Dreamcast has an easier time reading data from the outside of a disc. As such, a GD-ROM is burned from the outside in. But by default, a CD-ROM is burned from the inside-out. Thus, most of the data is towards the inside of the disc. The Dreamcast has to work harder to read that data. SOME Dreamcast backups compensate for this issue with what is called a dummy file, or garbage data. They put this at the beginning of the .iso so that it is burned to the inner part of the disc, thus forcing the important game data to the outer edge. But this practice is not too common, and it still doesn't account for the aforementioned issues with playing burned games.

 

Now, I'm not saying that it isn't worth it for some people to burn games. Some games are expensive and Dreamcasts are dirt cheap these days. But the risks involved with playing burned games are VERY real. What you're doing is akin to saying cigarettes don't cause cancer because you've been smoking for 30 years and you're still fine.

Edited May 24, 2010 by famicommander

[+wood_jl]

Wow, thank you very much, famicommander, for that information!! That was a very detailed answer, and much appreciated!!! :)

[Trooper]

But the risks involved with playing burned games are VERY real. What you're doing is akin to saying cigarettes don't cause cancer because you've been smoking for 30 years and you're still fine.

 

Like I said above I am not in any way saying that the laserassembly won't wear out faster if you use CD-Rs, I just question what timeframe we're talking. Apart from the machine I referred to above I've got another 3 PAL units, another 5 Jap units and a couple of US units, all of them have been used with CD-Rs quite extensively and none have had any problems because of it. So no it's not like saying "cigarettes don't cause cancer because you've been smoking for 30 years and you're still fine.". It's more like saying "Sure, cigarettes cause cancer but the question is how big of a risk you're taking since I and many others have been smoking for 20 years without any adverse effects". Doesn't mean we won't get cancer, doesn't mean it's not dangerous to smoke. All it means is that we probably won't get cancer from the first 500 packs. Yes, it's a bad comparison really and I'd rather not compare a deadly decease with a $20 videogame console but since that was your example I thought it best to stick with it for consistency.

 

Like I said, I am quite sure that you will wear out the LA on your DC faster with CD-Rs than with GD-Rs but I just don't feel it's as much of a problem as you make it out to be since I have more than ten machines and none have shown any signs of trouble from playing CD-Rs, doesn't mean your wrong and experiences may vary, I'm just going talking from my own perspective.

[Mord]

Too bad about not having played burned games on it, because that would have been the first confirmed occurence ever of that leading to a crapped out laser.

 

I don't see how one could make that claim in this kind of instance even if CD-Rs were used on it... It's not like playing CD-Rs are the only way the laser could die. (As this case is proof of.)

[DickNixonArisen]

Won't somebody pleeeaase think of the children...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

who won't be able to play DC?

[GrizzLee]

Too bad about not having played burned games on it, because that would have been the first confirmed occurence ever of that leading to a crapped out laser.

 

I don't see how one could make that claim in this kind of instance even if CD-Rs were used on it... It's not like playing CD-Rs are the only way the laser could die. (As this case is proof of.)

 

Correct.

Lacks the scientific method....

 

-Lee

[superdevil]

Too bad about not having played burned games on it, because that would have been the first confirmed occurence ever of that leading to a crapped out laser.

 

I don't see how one could make that claim in this kind of instance even if CD-Rs were used on it... It's not like playing CD-Rs are the only way the laser could die. (As this case is proof of.)

 

Correct.

Lacks the scientific method....

 

-Lee

 

 

There's absolutely no evidence to suggest that playing burned games will wear out your laser. In fact, my evidence is to the contrary. Of the six or seven Dreamcasts that I've owned, the only one that died was a launch day unit that never saw a CD, burned or otherwise. The remaining units are ones that I've purchased new, and needless to say have seen way more burned games than factory pressed games.

 

This was an urban legend that started up roughly about the time that the homebrew/emulation/pirate community started figuring out how to properly burn self-booting backup discs. All the early Model One units had a Samsung-manufactured laser which was prone to burning out. Coincidentally, these early units started crapping out at the same time people figured out how to burn their own games, so naturally the burned games were blamed. The Model 2 and 3 DCs utilized a Yamaha manufactured laser that was much more reliable.

 

To the OP; IIRC the Sports edition DC utilized a Model 2 laser. The only way to be for sure is to open the DC up and see if the drive is stamped Yamaha or Samsung. If it's stamped Samsung; it's a model One. If it's stamped Yamaha, it's a model 2. If it's not stamped with anything, it's a Model 3 (which is also a Yamaha). As far as I know you can't replace the Model 3 laser with any aftermarket part (ie, the Chinese junk plastered across Ebay).

 

What would probably make more sense is to check Craigslist for a new Dreamcast. I see one come up about three or four times a week, and they usually sell for less than 20.00.

[Hatta]

 

It's pretty well-known that the laser mechanism has to work twice as hard to read content off a CD-R. This is because the data is better arranged on a GD-ROM, thus allowing for less stress during disc access and more data to be cached at a time.

 

This is a potential issue, but properly made rips will be sorted and padded to avoid this issue. Also note that this shouldn't affect the laser itself, but instead causes extra wear on the mechanism behind the laser.

 

 

Further, a pressed disc is always easier on the laser itself than a burned disc. This is because a pressed disc reflects more light. And that rings true for all forms of optical media. So a burned disc will require more work from the laser to get the same amount of data.

 

Unless you're tweaking the pot, the laser is emitting the same amount of power no matter what you put in it. If it works, it works.

 

Finally, it is a known fact that the Dreamcast has an easier time reading data from the outside of a disc. As such, a GD-ROM is burned from the outside in.

 

I don't believe that for a moment. Do you have a citation? It is the case that the high density area is on the outside edge of the ring, but I find it hard to believe that it's recorded backwards. In any case, a properly sorted rip will take care of this issue.

 

GDI files are available for every dreamcast game. If you're worried about getting a properly sorted and padded ISO you can grab the GDI and convert it yourself.

 

 

I'm with superdevil. I've never seen any evidence that seems remotely plausible that playing CDRs on a dreamcast will damage the laser in any way. Potentially the mechanism behind the laser, if you're using unoptimized rips. The issue is that electronics with moving parts will die eventually. People want to blame it on something, and CDRs are an easy scapegoat.

[Video]

I think the "real" issue with the Dreamcast is, that most of the drives are just crap. Yeah, I said it. Most of them are crap. They will simply wear out (rather quickly) with useage. I don't believe for a second that CD's, GD's or Burned discs have any bearing in the matter. I think the real deal is that people will ask about what people do with their systems (it's a well known fact it's a emu system, most people will do that with it) so people will ask the "no duh" question of "did you use burned discs on it" and say that's what caused the problem.

 

It's kinda like saying a light bulb burned out because you used it, you're shoes wore out because you wear them, your car got a flat cause you drove it....etc....etc...etc. It's just normal wear and tear on a known problem part.

 

That's not to say there aren't some out there, but in those cases, it's also well known that certain product numbers are more reliable than others (IE, have better drives in them)

[DickNixonArisen]

I have never owned a DC before and still don't have an AV cord for mine. Is it true that a PS1 power cord will work in a DC, and could that harm it?

 

 

Either way, I don't play to emulate. I don't really like emulators in general and I am a collector, so I eventually want the game anyway. I'd rather just wait until I pay out or get lucky in the case of rare titles, and already own the common ones.

[famicommander]

Yes, it's just a standard power cord. I use the same cord with a bunch of my systems to avoid having to have so many damned power strips.