Alternate Reality-props to the Dungeon

[Gunstar]

In recent years, it seems, much more attention has been given to AR The City,specifically the A8 version, and for good reason, with all it's intricate uniqueness and unseen depth that goes far beyond even the Dungeon. I'm one of the biggest advocates of 'The City.' But, 'The Dungeon' goes beyond it's counterpart in it;s own ways, like actually being able to join Guilds and use spells (not available in the A8 version of the city). Specific missions and sub-plots missing in the city, expanded goodies and enemies and of course a much larger "world."

 

I love AR in both forms, but I've started playing 'The Dungeon' over again using a character I created and raised in 'The City.'

I'm using the guide and player's handbook, but I'm not using the pre-made maps. I'm recreating my own maps as I progress, like I did at first 25 years ago. It's been a blast so far; I spent about 6 hours a day all three days over the Memorial Day weekend playing. I really love this game and it's sucked me into it's world all over again as it did when I was a teenager.

 

A curious thing happened to me in my adventures that never happened before. I was bitten by a 'Great Snake' or 'Great Naga,' I don't recall which it was the first time, and was poisoned. While searching for a cure or a healer I was bitten by a 'Great Naga' again (definately a Naga this time) and my "poisoning" went away or was "cured" by the second bite!?!? I don't know if being bitten twice cancels it, and if so if this happens only in seperate encounters or if it can happen within one, so getting bitten an even number of times would avoid poisoning. Or, if it was two different types of snakes that cancel out each other's poisonings...curious.

[Velcro_SP]

Valid points, Gunstar. I played AR City on my Atari 800, and then a few years later played AR Dungeon on my Atari 65XE. City had magic, by that I guess I mean that "wow" quality of a computer game that successfully takes you into its world. In Dungeon I was able to do more. I'd say Dungeon retained about 75% of City's magic. Dungeon was less frustrating, no doubt. Technically it was refined and the difficulty level was lower. I am one of those who has focused on Phillip Price's City, but I have to give Dungeon and its Datasoft programmers who continued Price's work their due. The later programmers did not screw things up, and they deserve much credit for that, because oh yes lesser programmers would have screwed things up.

 

In recent years, it seems, much more attention has been given to AR The City,specifically the A8 version, and for good reason, with all it's intricate uniqueness and unseen depth that goes far beyond even the Dungeon.

[danwinslow]

I'm betting that the 'poisoned' bit in the character status is set via an XOR operation.

[bfollett]

I'm betting that the 'poisoned' bit in the character status is set via an XOR operation.

 

It's been quite a while since I've seriously played the dungeon, so I may be wrong, but doesn't poison eventually run it's course and end on its own after some amount of time? If so, it might just have been coincidence that the poison ran out while fighting another snake.

 

Bob

[Gunstar]

That's a valid point too, I suppose, I had always assumed, that like most diseases in the game, some poisons are with you until you are cured or until death. I know there are some poisons that only do so much damage and that's it, and some that do wear off like you said, but I thought venomous (sorry if thats spelled wrong) poisons only lead to death like many diseases. I'll have to look into the manual, guide and handbooks to see what they say about poison and disease again.

[Gunstar]

Valid points, Gunstar. I played AR City on my Atari 800, and then a few years later played AR Dungeon on my Atari 65XE. City had magic, by that I guess I mean that "wow" quality of a computer game that successfully takes you into its world. In Dungeon I was able to do more. I'd say Dungeon retained about 75% of City's magic. Dungeon was less frustrating, no doubt. Technically it was refined and the difficulty level was lower. I am one of those who has focused on Phillip Price's City, but I have to give Dungeon and its Datasoft programmers who continued Price's work their due. The later programmers did not screw things up, and they deserve much credit for that, because oh yes lesser programmers would have screwed things up.

 

In recent years, it seems, much more attention has been given to AR The City,specifically the A8 version, and for good reason, with all it's intricate uniqueness and unseen depth that goes far beyond even the Dungeon.

 

I myself also started with the City, and played it to death for a couple years until the Dungeon was released, but after the Dungeon came out, I became addicted to it and really never touched the city again much for many years. Later, I started new characters in the city, built them up for a while and then transfered them to the dungeon to continue on. But it wasn't really until about ten years ago where I really started getting into the City again and realizing, along with others on AA, just how deep and unique it really is. I found a new appreciation for the City and a renewed addiction.

 

But even the fabulous City of Xebec's Demise grows tiring for me after a while (a long while) with only random encounters moving the game along. It's very refreshing, playing the Dungeon again, to have real adventures and missions to accomplish along side the random encounters. Of course once I complete all the missions it's back to the random encounters, and it will be years again before I'm ready to do all the missions again, like I'm doing this time, so the City's and Dungeon's random encounters are what keeps me coming back year after year and decade after decade, endless replayability.

 

Sure, I agree ARD would have been better if done by Philip Price himself, with the original game engine but tweaked, so the best of both games would have shown through, but we don't have that version, so I loving the one we got becuase it's all we have and it's pretty darn good in it's own rite.

Edited June 1, 2010 by Gunstar

[Gunstar]

Valid points, Gunstar. I played AR City on my Atari 800, and then a few years later played AR Dungeon on my Atari 65XE. City had magic, by that I guess I mean that "wow" quality of a computer game that successfully takes you into its world. In Dungeon I was able to do more. I'd say Dungeon retained about 75% of City's magic. Dungeon was less frustrating, no doubt. Technically it was refined and the difficulty level was lower. I am one of those who has focused on Phillip Price's City, but I have to give Dungeon and its Datasoft programmers who continued Price's work their due. The later programmers did not screw things up, and they deserve much credit for that, because oh yes lesser programmers would have screwed things up.

 

In recent years, it seems, much more attention has been given to AR The City,specifically the A8 version, and for good reason, with all it's intricate uniqueness and unseen depth that goes far beyond even the Dungeon.

 

I myself also started with the City, and played it to death for a couple years until the Dungeon was released, but after the Dungeon came out, I became addicted to it and really never touched the city again much for many years. Later, I started new characters in the city, built them up for a while and then transfered them to the dungeon to continue on. But it wasn't really until about ten years ago where I really started getting into the City again and realizing, along with others on AA, just how deep and unique it really is. I found a new appreciation for the City and a renewed addiction.

 

But even the fabulous City of Xebec's Demise grows tiring for me after a while (a long while) with only random encounters moving the game along. It's very refreshing, playing the Dungeon again, to have real adventures and missions to accomplish along side the random encounters. Of course once I complete all the missions it's back to the random encounters, and it will be years again before I'm ready to do all the missions again, like I'm doing this time, so the City's and Dungeon's random encounters are what keeps me coming back year after year and decade after decade, endless replayability.

 

Sure, I agree ARD would have been better if done by Philip Price himself, with the original game engine but tweaked, so the best of both games would have shown through, but we don't have that version, so I loving the one we got becuase it's all we have and it's pretty darn good in it's own rite.

 

As to the difficulty, yes, it is harder to get started and survive in the city than in the dungeon, but an advanced city character who is nearly invincible in the city becomes a pee-on again when entering the dungeon. It's like a high-school football player being thrown into an NFL game. Character's created in the dungeon are comparable to an advanced city characters from their creation in their stats.

I exaggerate a bit, but not much...just try taking a newly-transfered character straight to level 2 or beyond in the dungeon and see how long you last. They must hang around the safer areas of level 1 just like new characters until they increase in power. Often has been the time where my character in the city is advanced enough to swat away encounters like flies, without recieving a scratch, then think; "surely this character is ready to master the Dungeon." Then transfer them to the dungeon, and on the first encounter, it happens to be a Vampire or some more powerful sort that sends my character to a quick demise! You and your character become humble quite quickly while you are reloading the 'lost' character and losing stat points...

Edited June 1, 2010 by Gunstar

[bfollett]

If anyone is looking for a possibly fresh experience in the dungeon, you may want to try what I call the "Born Again Adventurer". I noticed that there were some spells that were only available from the evil guilds and I wanted them, but in the end I wanted a saintly good character to gain access to the chapel garden/Sanctuary. What I would do is start a character on the evil path but avoid starting conflicts with good guys so they wouldn't hold grudges in the future. Trick, charm, and ambush the heck out of the neutral and evil characters, and you should also rob the bank vaults alot. This will quickly drop your morality. During this time join the evil guilds and learn/practice the heck out of all the evil spells you want. I also read somewhere that those spells that are available at both good and evil guilds are actually slightly stronger at the evil guilds so learn those from the evil guilds as well. Once you've done that it's off to the Chapel to repent. The standard warning applies here, make sure you drop everything of value outside the chapel, because after you repent, you loose everything you're carrying. Now you can play and build your character as a good guy. From what I remember the only good characters that you will have to fight or avoid is th palace guards(I guess the law never forgives or forget bank robbery... go figure).

 

Bob

[eegad]

Interesting topic. I got the city when it was first released and played it to death. It was so unique - there was nothing else quite like it at the time. Couldn't wait for the next installment to be released and had the dungeon on pre-order for months. Got the dungeon and played it every day for a month or so, but at some point I put it aside before finishing it. I had it 80% mapped out, but hadn't completed/figured out a bunch of things. And then before I got back to the dungeon, the Atari stuff got put aside for other things (first a mac, then a pc). It wasn't until about 4-5 years ago, via AtariWin that I got back into the dungeon for a while and finally finished it (resurrecting my old character disk, and using a map from the internet to re-familiarize myself with things).

 

In some ways, yes the dungeon was better - it had more depth to it....more things to do, more of a story to figure out. But the city was magic, the first of it's kind. I can still recall that "wow" factor the first time I started playing the city. The long musical intro. The 'amazing graphics' at the gate where you choose your random character stats. That whole "holy crap, it's a whole open 3-D world that you can walk around in, wherever you want!". Technically the dungeon was a better game; but the "newness" of the experience had worn off by the time the dungeon was released. I think that's why most people have more fond memories of the city. Just my 2 cents on what I pretty much consider to be my "top" computer game ever.....because nothing else has held my interest for 25 years (well, other than 2600 Adventure, which I've been playing for 30 years!)

 

So sad that the Alternate Reality series never got finished. For a long time there during the 90s I was holding out hope that somebody would release a sequel/finish to the game on the pc or something.

[Gunstar]

If anyone is looking for a possibly fresh experience in the dungeon, you may want to try what I call the "Born Again Adventurer". I noticed that there were some spells that were only available from the evil guilds and I wanted them, but in the end I wanted a saintly good character to gain access to the chapel garden/Sanctuary. What I would do is start a character on the evil path but avoid starting conflicts with good guys so they wouldn't hold grudges in the future. Trick, charm, and ambush the heck out of the neutral and evil characters, and you should also rob the bank vaults alot. This will quickly drop your morality. During this time join the evil guilds and learn/practice the heck out of all the evil spells you want. I also read somewhere that those spells that are available at both good and evil guilds are actually slightly stronger at the evil guilds so learn those from the evil guilds as well. Once you've done that it's off to the Chapel to repent. The standard warning applies here, make sure you drop everything of value outside the chapel, because after you repent, you loose everything you're carrying. Now you can play and build your character as a good guy. From what I remember the only good characters that you will have to fight or avoid is th palace guards(I guess the law never forgives or forget bank robbery... go figure).

 

Bob

 

That is what I am doing. I just repented my character tonight, though I didn't try to join all the evil guilds and learn all the spells. I did run amok, and had a soul as "black as pitch" according to the priest. But I also backed up my character disk first, so I have my evil character, and now the same character in his repentant alternate life in alternate reality. But you are right about the Palace Guard; God may forgive and forget, but the law still expects repayment of debt. I just came across a guard tonight, in my newly repentant stage, and he still demanded I give myself up. So I said no, thank you sir, and ran. I am now going around attempting as much do-goodery as possible and going to the church every day so I can get good enough to join a good guild. I'm cursed several times over.

[Gunstar]

Interesting topic. I got the city when it was first released and played it to death. It was so unique - there was nothing else quite like it at the time. Couldn't wait for the next installment to be released and had the dungeon on pre-order for months. Got the dungeon and played it every day for a month or so, but at some point I put it aside before finishing it. I had it 80% mapped out, but hadn't completed/figured out a bunch of things. And then before I got back to the dungeon, the Atari stuff got put aside for other things (first a mac, then a pc). It wasn't until about 4-5 years ago, via AtariWin that I got back into the dungeon for a while and finally finished it (resurrecting my old character disk, and using a map from the internet to re-familiarize myself with things).

 

In some ways, yes the dungeon was better - it had more depth to it....more things to do, more of a story to figure out. But the city was magic, the first of it's kind. I can still recall that "wow" factor the first time I started playing the city. The long musical intro. The 'amazing graphics' at the gate where you choose your random character stats. That whole "holy crap, it's a whole open 3-D world that you can walk around in, wherever you want!". Technically the dungeon was a better game; but the "newness" of the experience had worn off by the time the dungeon was released. I think that's why most people have more fond memories of the city. Just my 2 cents on what I pretty much consider to be my "top" computer game ever.....because nothing else has held my interest for 25 years (well, other than 2600 Adventure, which I've been playing for 30 years!)

 

So sad that the Alternate Reality series never got finished. For a long time there during the 90s I was holding out hope that somebody would release a sequel/finish to the game on the pc or something.

 

I totally agree with you regarding that second paragraph and the first time seeing the amazing graphics and 3D world of the City. That's why it was a good thing to have a more polished interface and story lines with missions and so much more to offer in the Dungeon as far as things to do, exactly becuase the "newness" had worn off by the time the Dungeon came out. I was mostly disappointed in the lack of a seemless interface between the City and Dungeon as was originally intended and expected, rather than the very clumsy way of having to save your city character in front of a dungeon enterance in the city, then load the Dungeon and transfer the character over, losing much of his posessions. I guess the Datasoft programmers thought making the character be at a dungeon entrance in the city kept some of the "realism", but instead it just became a hassle since one's character could no longer just stroll into the dungeon with a change of disk as originally intended. That all pissed me off, not to mention not being able to take your dungeon character BACK to the city!!! But after I got beyond that, honestly I spent a lot more time in the 80's and early 90's with the Dungeon than I did with the City. Lately (past decade) I've stuck to the City much more.

 

You mentioned 2600 Adventure. For me, besides the AR games the games that kept me coming back (and holding onto) to my Atari 8-bit for the past 25 years were the 4 Lucasfilm games (and one or two other classics). I still own a 2600, and have off and on since the 80's and the only game I've played on it throughout the years is Activision's Robot Tank and Star Voyager, and the Imagic games. On the 7800 it's Commando and Ikari Warriors. All the other 2600 and 7800 classics I play the A8 versions instead.

Edited June 2, 2010 by Gunstar