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@carmel_andrews: You've got a point there. In fact that's exactly what I've been saying (and wondering) for a long time already, when people asked about ports of this or that for the Jaguar.

 

What's the point in porting something if you can also just play the games on the original systems?

It can be as much work as rewriting the whole game and there are usually copyright problems involed. It's a lot of work put into a project if the game wasn't your own idea in the first place.

 

 

Because it would be bad-ass to play a game like Hypertension on the Jaguar. And since no one in this community is willing or able to do the things you outlined from lack of skill or lack of interest going with Hypertension would probably be a better bet since the HT developer is willing to do the engine rebuilding/artwork and just needs help with Jag specific stuff. run on sentence. deal with it.

 

And since no one seems to be willing to even help with that good luck getting someone doing a whole new game. By themselves. Artwork/sound/engine rebuild. Yeah right. Even converting Heretic would take some work with the engine since it has to jump and look up and down. And that is not going to happen.

 

And while JagWare makes some neat little contributions game wise to the community they are really not what we all are waiting for on the Jag unfortunately.

Edited by JagChris
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@carmel_andrews: You've got a point there. In fact that's exactly what I've been saying (and wondering) for a long time already, when people asked about ports of this or that for the Jaguar.

 

What's the point in porting something if you can also just play the games on the original systems?

It can be as much work as rewriting the whole game and there are usually copyright problems involed. It's a lot of work put into a project if the game wasn't your own idea in the first place.

 

 

Because it would be bad-ass to play a game like Hypertension on the Jaguar. And since no one in this community is willing or able to do the things you outlined from lack of skill or lack of interest going with Hypertension would probably be a better bet since the HT developer is willing to do the engine rebuilding/artwork and just needs help with Jag specific stuff. run on sentence. deal with it.

 

And since no one seems to be willing to even help with that good luck getting someone doing a whole new game. By themselves. Artwork/sound/engine rebuild. Yeah right. Even converting Heretic would take some work with the engine since it has to jump and look up and down. And that is not going to happen.

 

And while JagWare makes some neat little contributions game wise to the community they are really not what we all are waiting for on the Jag unfortunately.

 

@JagChris: The things I outlined is creating new original games.

Are you saying, nobody in the Jag scene has the skill or interest in doing that?

What is there to doubt about someone creating a whole new game by himself?

Sure it takes time and skill, but it's not like nobody could do it.

Isn't your statement kind of insulting to all the hard working Jaguar developers out there who still create new and original games for the system?

If you think nobody is doing that, you must have missed something.

Because last time I checked, there are quite some projects out there that are in development for the Jag, which are created either by individuals or very small teams. Those games I'm refering to ARE whole new and original games.

 

I also think there are definately people who appreciate the work of Jagware and are looking forward to their games. If you prefer other games that's one thing, but you can't really put your opinion as a statement of the whole community, saying the community is waiting for other titles. I just don't think it's fair to Jagware's efforts and I'm sure there are people who are looking forward to their games.

 

I understand you would like a FPS, but really it's not the only genre.

If you want a new FPS, your best chance probably is to learn and do it yourself.

 

Besides isn't there still a problem of copyright connected to games like heretic, hypertension and so on?

Did the original developers allows their assets to be used freely in ports? If not that's probably quite a problem.

Edited by Starcat
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@carmel_andrews: You've got a point there. In fact that's exactly what I've been saying (and wondering) for a long time already, when people asked about ports of this or that for the Jaguar.

 

What's the point in porting something if you can also just play the games on the original systems?

It can be as much work as rewriting the whole game and there are usually copyright problems involed. It's a lot of work put into a project if the game wasn't your own idea in the first place.

 

 

Because it would be bad-ass to play a game like Hypertension on the Jaguar. And since no one in this community is willing or able to do the things you outlined from lack of skill or lack of interest going with Hypertension would probably be a better bet since the HT developer is willing to do the engine rebuilding/artwork and just needs help with Jag specific stuff. run on sentence. deal with it.

 

And since no one seems to be willing to even help with that good luck getting someone doing a whole new game. By themselves. Artwork/sound/engine rebuild. Yeah right. Even converting Heretic would take some work with the engine since it has to jump and look up and down. And that is not going to happen.

 

And while JagWare makes some neat little contributions game wise to the community they are really not what we all are waiting for on the Jag unfortunately.

 

@JagChris: The things I outlined is creating new original games.

Are you saying, nobody in the Jag scene has the skill or interest in doing that?

What is there to doubt about someone creating a whole new game by himself?

 

Absolutely not. You need to read my posts more carefully. I am saying those who are skiled are not willing and those who are willing are not skilled enough.

 

I know you have been creating a whole new game by your StarCat and Kudos to you. But you are one man and you've been working on it for 10 some years now. Or a long long time. A whole project like that is too much for a lone ranger to produce in a reasonable amount of time. The HT develoopment team has rebuild their engine and redone the artwork in quite a rapid time in comparison because they had help. Lone Rangers are fine I'd just rather not wait until Doomsday.

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I also think there are definately people who appreciate the work of Jagware and are looking forward to their games. If you prefer other games that's one thing, but you can't really put your opinion as a statement of the whole community, saying the community is waiting for other titles. I just don't think it's fair to Jagware's efforts and I'm sure there are people who are looking forward to their games.

 

I'm not saying JagWares efforts are bad games, or that people are not looking forward to them. But they are 16 bit games and if that is all we aspire to on the Jaguar, what are we doing with a 64 bit system? Lets all just go get a Sega Genesis then. I am not trying to insult anybody, I'm just being honest.

 

And as for FPS not being the only genre, this thread is for people who want more FPS games on the Jag. Hence the title of the thread.

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I also think there are definately people who appreciate the work of Jagware and are looking forward to their games. If you prefer other games that's one thing, but you can't really put your opinion as a statement of the whole community, saying the community is waiting for other titles. I just don't think it's fair to Jagware's efforts and I'm sure there are people who are looking forward to their games.

 

I'm not saying JagWares efforts are bad games, or that people are not looking forward to them. But they are 16 bit games and if that is all we aspire to on the Jaguar, what are we doing with a 64 bit system? Lets all just go get a Sega Genesis then. I am not trying to insult anybody, I'm just being honest.

 

And as for FPS not being the only genre, this thread is for people who want more FPS games on the Jag. Hence the title of the thread.

 

While I support all dev efforts, minor or otherwise, I agree 100% with you. However, I think there's a simple and very good reason for the lack of real "A-level" (for lack of a better term) homebrews on the Jaguar--the higher the specs of a system, the more difficult it is to produce something of a high level, i.e., you need more skillsets and more time to produce something of commercial quality. While one or two people can produce a AAA 8-bit title, you generally need to grow that size team for 16-bits and beyond. There are of course exceptions, where there are later systems with easier dev environments and ability to easily convert assets for use (Dreamcast, iPhone, PC, etc.), but I think the Jaguar's current state (and perhaps indefinitely) makes a release of a true A-level title difficult.

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I also think there are definately people who appreciate the work of Jagware and are looking forward to their games. If you prefer other games that's one thing, but you can't really put your opinion as a statement of the whole community, saying the community is waiting for other titles. I just don't think it's fair to Jagware's efforts and I'm sure there are people who are looking forward to their games.

 

I'm not saying JagWares efforts are bad games, or that people are not looking forward to them. But they are 16 bit games and if that is all we aspire to on the Jaguar, what are we doing with a 64 bit system? Lets all just go get a Sega Genesis then. I am not trying to insult anybody, I'm just being honest.

 

And as for FPS not being the only genre, this thread is for people who want more FPS games on the Jag. Hence the title of the thread.

 

While I support all dev efforts, minor or otherwise, I agree 100% with you. However, I think there's a simple and very good reason for the lack of real "A-level" (for lack of a better term) homebrews on the Jaguar--the higher the specs of a system, the more difficult it is to produce something of a high level, i.e., you need more skillsets and more time to produce something of commercial quality. While one or two people can produce a AAA 8-bit title, you generally need to grow that size team for 16-bits and beyond. There are of course exceptions, where there are later systems with easier dev environments and ability to easily convert assets for use (Dreamcast, iPhone, PC, etc.), but I think the Jaguar's current state (and perhaps indefinitely) makes a release of a true A-level title difficult.

 

Agreed. I just hope more devs try to at least dabble beyond just the 16bit ports. When we start getting homebrew games that will no longer run on Project Tempest I think that would be a good start.

 

With SubQmods tool set it should make it that much easier. And what this community really needs of course is a GPU C compiler. That way you wouldnt have to know the RISCs so much, you'd just have to know C. I did some digging around on the net and all the compiler experts I've corresponded with say that the new LLVM C compilers would be most ideal for the Jaguar and its chipset.

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I'm curious about your Project Tempest comment. Can you elaborate? It's just an emulator, right? So why wouldn't homebrew games run on it?

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I'm curious about your Project Tempest comment. Can you elaborate? It's just an emulator, right? So why wouldn't homebrew games run on it?

 

Project Tempest cannot seem to handle games that start pushing the Jaguar much beyond the 68k. It handles T2k and Minter used a lot of 68k but he was a programming genius.

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I have tried out some ROMS on PT for the games I own. Ones that wont work:

 

Ruiner Pinball.

NBA Jam TE.

White Men Cant Jump.

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I think the Jaguar's current state (and perhaps indefinitely) makes a release of a true A-level title difficult.

I think there's one possible exception... and it takes the thread full circle.

 

Given an A-level game that's already complete, it might be possible for a small team to "port" that game to the Jaguar. Obviously it depends on the game.

 

But if you want a unique, fully finished, from-scratch game, created entirely for the Jaguar, that also pushes the console to new limits... don't hold your breath...

 

Personally, I'm happy with ANY new content. Tech demos (awesome), "16-bit" style games, ports from other platforms, new peripherals... you name it.

 

Every new thing the Jaguar can do makes it that much cooler!

 

- KS

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I think the Jaguar's current state (and perhaps indefinitely) makes a release of a true A-level title difficult.

I think there's one possible exception... and it takes the thread full circle.

 

Given an A-level game that's already complete, it might be possible for a small team to "port" that game to the Jaguar. Obviously it depends on the game.

 

My thoughts with Hypertension. Everything is done, maps, levels, art. Corbin is willing to do the engine rebuild which he's very good at he just needs Jag specific help. Maybe one or two knowledgable Jag coders who can help him plug the rebuild into the Jag.

 

But if you want a unique, fully finished, from-scratch game, created entirely for the Jaguar, that also pushes the console to new limits... don't hold your breath...

 

Personally, I'm happy with ANY new content. Tech demos (awesome), "16-bit" style games, ports from other platforms, new peripherals... you name it.

 

Every new thing the Jaguar can do makes it that much cooler!

 

- KS

 

When you gonna whip us out some tech demos Kskunk! :)

Edited by JagChris

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the original blood, if i remember correctly used a modified build engine, seeing as hypertenion is based on blood.

porting the build engine over to the jag will be an uphill struggle to say the least. the doom engine that

we have on the jaguar is crippled, not only but the jag's lack of onboard memory but by the ommisions to

the engine itself. the best you could hope for is a quick and dirty hack like the 32x version, but that

uses saxman's tools and some ported maps, and saxman's tools dont work on the jag.

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the original blood, if i remember correctly used a modified build engine, seeing as hypertenion is based on blood.

porting the build engine over to the jag will be an uphill struggle to say the least. the doom engine that

we have on the jaguar is crippled, not only but the jag's lack of onboard memory but by the ommisions to

the engine itself. the best you could hope for is a quick and dirty hack like the 32x version, but that

uses saxman's tools and some ported maps, and saxman's tools dont work on the jag.

 

Yeah I agree. A rebuild is beyond the scope of most in this community. WE NEED A GPU C Compiler. Just porting the existing code to a GPU C compiler would be relatively simple and should speed things up right away.

 

Boz's tools will work on the Jag when he releases them. My guess is they would probably port the Hypertensions maps over fairly easily.

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the original blood, if i remember correctly used a modified build engine, seeing as hypertenion is based on blood.

porting the build engine over to the jag will be an uphill struggle to say the least. the doom engine that

we have on the jaguar is crippled, not only but the jag's lack of onboard memory but by the ommisions to

the engine itself. the best you could hope for is a quick and dirty hack like the 32x version, but that

uses saxman's tools and some ported maps, and saxman's tools dont work on the jag.

 

Yeah I agree. A rebuild is beyond the scope of most in this community. WE NEED A GPU C Compiler. Just porting the existing code to a GPU C compiler would be relatively simple and should speed things up right away.

 

Boz's tools will work on the Jag when he releases them. My guess is they would probably port the Hypertensions maps over fairly easily.

 

 

 

Yeah a GPU compiler that can handle main RAM execution but that's no easy task. The machine descriptor alone would be a science

in its own right.

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