Ebay

[matthew180]

Sorry... There just aren't enough eBay or online sellers for the TI. If we create some kind of TI "blacklist," then who are we gonna put on it? Kyle? Who else? It has been suggested over at one of the (lame) list servers that one of our own Atariage guys be on the big important official "TI Blacklist".... And that fella happens to be a friend of mine.

 

We're a tiny community. Growing--- at a pretty good pace, but still relatively small compared to, say, the Atari2600 guys. It's a tough thing--- but we all know there are necessary evils in this world.... One happens to be (for me) access to items on eBay. If there were a seller like Kyle who sold the same stuff, i'd buy from that person.... But for all the rare stuff I've got from Kyle over the years--- I've never had a business transaction problem..... Now of course, that leaves alot of questions.... For instance, my tax bill doesn't arrive late or mis-addressed. I still gotta pay it. Alot of people buy from this guy. He just has more stuff than anyone else.... That's all. marc's point is absolutely 100% legitimate,

by the way.... So is yours Matthew

 

I started a new thread because I'm a heavy believer of NOT hijacking threads. If I wanted that kind of thing I would have stayed on the Y! list servers. Anyway...

 

I'm not suggesting a "blacklist". Simply a thread where people post issues with transactions or questionable buyers / sellers. On the other A.A. groups I have read, both sides are usually on the list and hash out the differences (or not). I don't care about the emotion of the transaction, just the facts (which are hard to separate sometimes.)

 

I was suspicious of Kyle even before Marc's post simply because how can anyone, anywhere in the world, get some much good TI stuff and not participate in a community? There is just no way. You don't get that much retro computing stuff simply because the sales are *so* lucrative. If the Kyle guy is making illegal copies of stuff and trying to pass it off as original, then that sucks for us all.

 

Yeah, yeah, I know, who is he hurting really, right? TI? Some defunct and out of business company from the '80s? Well, it seems he is not restricting his wares to 20 year old, no longer available anywhere stuff. And if he magically has another copy of some manual a few weeks after selling the last one, then you can be sure he is selling copies and not originals (and at top dollar to boot.) That's just B.S. all around.

 

I promise you this, the day you make a piece of software and start trying to sell it (or even make it free on a website and simply ask for donations), and you then see someone selling *your* software on ebay... On that day your attitude towards software piracy will change.

 

I'm not trying to pretend I'm not guilty or point fingers here. I don't think there is a person alive who can honestly say they have never downloaded or installed some sort of pirated software. Unfortunately for us (and all retro computing) it is sometimes the only way we can get access to software otherwise (it simply can not be bought legit.) However it does not make it right. But when people start making illegal copies of carts by burning eproms and trying to sell them as originals, or when they take newly developed software and start selling it illegally, that goes down a totally different road all together IMO.

 

How would you feel if, when Beryl is finished, you found Kyle selling it on ebay??

 

Matthew

[+retroclouds]

I was suspicious of Kyle even before Marc's post simply because how can anyone, anywhere in the world, get some much good TI stuff and not participate in a community?

 

To be sure I guess we'd have to ask the senior guys at the yahoo group.

I seem to recall that Kyle bought a complete stock of stuff when one of the last distributors quit in the early to mid nineties.

That was a time where the interest in the TI-99/4A was dropping like a falling rock. So I guess it was either he took the stuff

or it went out to the dumpster.

 

Sure he's making cash with it now, but no one is forced to buy from him. And who could foresee that there would be a renewed interest in the TI ? He kept all the stuff for at least 10 years. Now this might be different in the US, but here in Germany I can't afford the storage

space for keeping all that gear. That would be way to expensive. So I guess he sticked to the TI at times where most (including me) left the TI scene for exploring other areas.

 

I hope to think he still has a good heart for the TI and it's not all about cash. It happened to me more than once that he put in an extra article for free when I ordered something.

 

However, I have to make this clear: there is no excuse to what he did with Marcs' Neverlander.

Trying to sell it on ebay was way out of line.

I'm sure he is lurking in the yahoo group and I think he learned his lesson.

 

Hhhmmm, he might even be here among us right now

 

Kyle, if you are, then please become a member of the atariage group and be part of this great community.

It would help us to better understand

Edited June 6, 2010 by retroclouds

[Opry99er]

I agree 100% with retroclouds on his last statement. Kyle owns a warehouse FULL of old sealed TI gear. There used to be distribution warehouses for all these different companies---- they shut down, Kyle bought it all up. There is no excuse for the NeverLander debacle. But I actually offered Kyle distribution rights to the original Beryl---the custom ToD game I was working on.... He was going to include it into his ToD stuff. This was over a year ago, however and I haven't spoken with him since Never-Lander..... I would just like to hear from him all this stuff... You know? In a public place. Piracy sucks, man... No doubt about it. But Kyle does alot more than that. And as much as I'm principled, I also believe in forgiveness. And I love our computer enough to forgive and move on. But matthew, you're right.... When I finish Beryl, I expect to be able to sell it in it's finished form-- with individual serial numbers.... Game by game. I'll take pre-orders, sell them on my website and on eBay, and when all the materials are gone and I've sold out----I'll never produce another one again. That way people will know a fake.... In Marc's case--- he made his code public domain and Kyle put it on cart and tried to sell it as a "never-released" TI cart. Bad move, Kyle.... Shame that had to happen.

Edited June 6, 2010 by Opry99er

[marc.hull]

I agree 100% with retroclouds on his last statement. Kyle owns a warehouse FULL of old sealed TI gear. There used to be distribution warehouses for all these different companies---- they shut down, Kyle bought it all up. There is no excuse for the NeverLander debacle. But I actually offered Kyle distribution rights to the original Beryl---the custom ToD game I was working on.... He was going to include it into his ToD stuff. This was over a year ago, however and I haven't spoken with him since Never-Lander..... I would just like to hear from him all this stuff... You know? In a public place. Piracy sucks, man... No doubt about it. But Kyle does alot more than that. And as much as I'm principled, I also believe in forgiveness. And I love our computer enough to forgive and move on. But matthew, you're right.... When I finish Beryl, I expect to be able to sell it in it's finished form-- with individual serial numbers.... Game by game. I'll take pre-orders, sell them on my website and on eBay, and when all the materials are gone and I've sold out----I'll never produce another one again. That way people will know a fake.... In Marc's case--- he made his code public domain and Kyle put it on cart and tried to sell it as a "never-released" TI cart. Bad move, Kyle.... Shame that had to happen.

 

As a point...... I did not make my software PD. It was and is copyrighted. I don't care who uses it I only have a problem with someone repackaging it and selling it for their own gain. It was inevitable that the copyright issue came here so let's be clear. PD software is such that it's author has abandoned all claims to it's ownership (making your property PD is almost impossible.) Copyrighted software is still under the control of the copyright holder. Charging nothing for download is not the same as giving up claim.

 

As far as Kyles massive stock goes.... AFAIK most if not all of the software he bought from Asguard has expired distribution rights (check with Gary....OPA) and I really doubt he has renewed any of those rights with the original copyright holders nor has he paid any royalties nor will he. He is making money off the backs of others with no consideration for their efforts. This makes him no different than the guy who picks your pocket.

 

Off the soap box

 

Marcus

[JamesD]

I say blacklist ebay and we all go somewhere else.

[Opry99er]

I stand corrected, Marc.

 

BTW guys--- Never-Lander is one BAD ASS game, if you haven't played it. I made a YouTube video of gameplay, and you can DL it from Vorticon's "TI Gameshelf" website.

[matthew180]

Well, if this Kyle fellow purchased a warehouse of TI gear 20 years ago and sat on it this long, then fine, I don't have a problem with people selling their stuff. However, I doubt that is the whole story, and there is no way for it to be proven. We do know something about him though based on what he tried to pull with Marc's game. As for him learning his "lesson", I doubt that either. People don't change unless they are forced to, and when they do get busted, then they are sore and pissed off about it. It also seems that the TI community has been full of cheating and deceit for a long long time, and it sucks that it is still going on and that there is still resentment to this day.

 

Matthew

[InfernalKeith]

I feel compelled to throw my two cents in here, despite my common-sense alarm telling me not to.

 

I sell on Ebay full-time, and one of the many categories of items I sell is TI 99/4A stuff. I started a TI section in my Ebay store when I got back into the 99/4A, to sell off extra items in my own collection or "part out" systems when I only needed a few things from them, and it's grown from there. I've sold stuff to some of you guys, and some of the Yahoo list regulars, and almost always had pleasant dealings with everyone.

 

I've also gotten crap from a very few people because I dare to buy and resell TI stuff, and it offends them in some way that I do this. The general consensus with these people seems to be that the TI is a holy, untouchable hobby and that making any money with it, in any form, is greedy, morally wrong, or corrosive to the spirit of hobbyist brotherhood, or something. A lot of times, they're the same people who gripe when no one bids on THEIR Ebay auctions, or will give them 1983 retail value for their unwanted collection, but I suppose that's human nature.

 

I've bought a number of things from Kyle for my own collection, and he's always been pleasant to deal with and very fair. We had an issue with some disks once, and in the midst of emailing back and forth about it, I moved to a new house, and the whole thing got forgotten. I found the bad disks over a year later and emailed him again, asking if he could help me out -- he sent me a package with what I needed in the next day's mail. He definitely didn't have to do that.

 

The Never-lander thing WAS a terribly bad move on his part. I can't condone that. But at least one of the 'elders' of our community has personally vouched for Kyle to me, and verified that he did buy out a good bit of TI inventory in the 1990's (when, as mentioned above, the stuff was considered all but worthless). And in my personal dealings with him, he's never been less than stellar.

 

I don't like seeing statements like "if this and this, then WE ALL KNOW this and this" -- because they're based on assumptions. We don't "all know" a damn thing about the situation, nine times out of ten. I've been painted unfairly with that brush of innuendo and aspersion before. Even if a blacklist would work (and they almost never do), it seems like a regression to an angry-mob mentality, and I think we, as a group, are above that sort of thing.

 

Bottom line, if you don't like someone's business practices, or you can't forgive something they did, avoid them and move on. Put that rabble-rousing energy into something positive, like a new project for the TI, and we'll all benefit.

[+adamantyr]

I feel compelled to throw my two cents in here, despite my common-sense alarm telling me not to.

 

I sell on Ebay full-time, and one of the many categories of items I sell is TI 99/4A stuff. I started a TI section in my Ebay store when I got back into the 99/4A, to sell off extra items in my own collection or "part out" systems when I only needed a few things from them, and it's grown from there. I've sold stuff to some of you guys, and some of the Yahoo list regulars, and almost always had pleasant dealings with everyone.

 

I've also gotten crap from a very few people because I dare to buy and resell TI stuff, and it offends them in some way that I do this. The general consensus with these people seems to be that the TI is a holy, untouchable hobby and that making any money with it, in any form, is greedy, morally wrong, or corrosive to the spirit of hobbyist brotherhood, or something. A lot of times, they're the same people who gripe when no one bids on THEIR Ebay auctions, or will give them 1983 retail value for their unwanted collection, but I suppose that's human nature.

 

I've bought a number of things from Kyle for my own collection, and he's always been pleasant to deal with and very fair. We had an issue with some disks once, and in the midst of emailing back and forth about it, I moved to a new house, and the whole thing got forgotten. I found the bad disks over a year later and emailed him again, asking if he could help me out -- he sent me a package with what I needed in the next day's mail. He definitely didn't have to do that.

 

The Never-lander thing WAS a terribly bad move on his part. I can't condone that. But at least one of the 'elders' of our community has personally vouched for Kyle to me, and verified that he did buy out a good bit of TI inventory in the 1990's (when, as mentioned above, the stuff was considered all but worthless). And in my personal dealings with him, he's never been less than stellar.

 

I don't like seeing statements like "if this and this, then WE ALL KNOW this and this" -- because they're based on assumptions. We don't "all know" a damn thing about the situation, nine times out of ten. I've been painted unfairly with that brush of innuendo and aspersion before. Even if a blacklist would work (and they almost never do), it seems like a regression to an angry-mob mentality, and I think we, as a group, are above that sort of thing.

 

Bottom line, if you don't like someone's business practices, or you can't forgive something they did, avoid them and move on. Put that rabble-rousing energy into something positive, like a new project for the TI, and we'll all benefit.

 

I agree wholeheartedly, Keith. The 99'er community in the past has been really good at driving people away, unfortunately. I've bought stuff from Kyle in the past, and I know he's got a stash of actual supplies from that era... a lot of it is too close to the original manuals to be mistaken otherwise. I wasn't aware of the "Neverlander" incident... Seems likes the Yahoo group is always having some kind of drama, a large reason why I lurk there. It appears that he's taken the listing down off his eBay store (for the moment anyway), so hopefully he's realized to be more cautious and ask first for new software.

 

Mind you, if I finish my CRPG, and I suddenly see someone selling it on eBay, I'll definitely be sending a "cease and desist"... Fortunately I have a plan there, you can sell the software but the extras will only come from me...

 

Adamantyr

[marc.hull]

 

Bottom line, if you don't like someone's business practices, or you can't forgive something they did, avoid them and move on. Put that rabble-rousing energy into something positive, like a new project for the TI, and we'll all benefit.

 

That came off a bit like a scolding Keith. I don't think I or anyone else was rabble-rousing or out of line with their comments nor tossing innuendo or false hoods around. Kyle's actions speak louder than words, both in the past and the present (look at some of his current inventory.)

 

If someone wants to rationalize what Kyle does so they can feel good about buying stuff from him then I have no problem with that but it's a bit unrealistic to expect others to ignore the shit sandwich even though it may help the former feel better about a purchase.

 

My understanding is that this is not a new issue in the TI world and most likely won't go away. Doesn't mean it should be condoned or not talked about in fear of upsetting the apple cart. If you can't live without something Kyle has then by all means purchase it. But don't be upset when someone calls the present situation what it is.....

 

I would really be interested in Hearing Kyles justification for his actions. Perhaps one of you can get him on here to tell his side. Perhaps I am wholly unjustified in my thoughts. I would be shocked if he does but you never know. We'll see.

 

Now for a positive thought....instead of a black list, maybe this forum could come up with a list of preferred sellers. Kind of a no BS feedback score complete with a short description. There are several out there right now who are completely trust-able and beyond reproach.

[InfernalKeith]

 

Bottom line, if you don't like someone's business practices, or you can't forgive something they did, avoid them and move on. Put that rabble-rousing energy into something positive, like a new project for the TI, and we'll all benefit.

 

That came off a bit like a scolding Keith. I don't think I or anyone else was rabble-rousing or out of line with their comments nor tossing innuendo or false hoods around. Kyle's actions speak louder than words, both in the past and the present (look at some of his current inventory.)

 

If someone wants to rationalize what Kyle does so they can feel good about buying stuff from him then I have no problem with that but it's a bit unrealistic to expect others to ignore the shit sandwich even though it may help the former feel better about a purchase.

 

My understanding is that this is not a new issue in the TI world and most likely won't go away. Doesn't mean it should be condoned or not talked about in fear of upsetting the apple cart. If you can't live without something Kyle has then by all means purchase it. But don't be upset when someone calls the present situation what it is.....

 

I would really be interested in Hearing Kyles justification for his actions. Perhaps one of you can get him on here to tell his side. Perhaps I am wholly unjustified in my thoughts. I would be shocked if he does but you never know. We'll see.

 

Now for a positive thought....instead of a black list, maybe this forum could come up with a list of preferred sellers. Kind of a no BS feedback score complete with a short description. There are several out there right now who are completely trust-able and beyond reproach.

 

 

 

I didn't intend to take a scolding tone; if it came across that way, I apologize. I understand the anger toward Kyle and I would never attempt to justify his packaging and selling of someone else's work without permission.

 

I like the idea of a recommended vendor list, especially if it has up-to-date contact information. I think sometimes, especially if someone isn't actively promoting their wares via Ebay or a website, only the longtime list members even know some of these people are out there. I've heard Ron Markus mentioned as the keeper of Asgard Software stock for some time, but I have no idea what he has, if he's still involved in it at all, or how to reach him. That's the kind of info it'd be great to have in a one-stop place, similar to the sticky thread for development resources.

 

One minor potential wrinkle - will anyone mind if this forum expands beyond the scope of programming and deals in more generalized 99/4A info like that? I certainly don't mind, and would welcome it, but I dunno if anyone else would worry about a loss of focus on programming.

 

K

[+retroclouds]

Interesting discussion people. I like the idea of a recommended vendor list.

But who'll decide whether a vendor is a recommended vendor or not.

And here's the provocative question: should Kyle be listed as a recommended vendor or not ?

 

Some will say yes, others will say definitely not.

 

One minor potential wrinkle - will anyone mind if this forum expands beyond the scope of programming and deals in more generalized 99/4A info like that? I certainly don't mind, and would welcome it, but I dunno if anyone else would worry about a loss of focus on programming.

 

I don't mind seeing this forum expand. I mean it's affecting the TI.

As long as we don't go that off-topic as it now regularly happens in the Y! groups we should be fine.

And after all, if you'r buying Extended Basic or a GPL assembler, then it's programming related anyway

 

What I would like to see is that we get a similar structure like they have for the Atariage Colecovision forum.

We could have a forum dealing with everything related to TI-99/4A and in there you have the programming subgroup (this one).

 

Albert, if you are reading this: please

Edited June 8, 2010 by retroclouds

[snume]

I don't think anyone on here has a problem with Kyle selling manufactured software he purchased when there was a sell-off. Marc alluded to the selling of licensed games, I assume this means disk or cassette copies that are made from originals and could legitimately be sold as licensed if a portion goes back to a rightholder or intermediary as Asgard was supposed to be. If all he is doing is selling copies he purchased at a fire sale well then that is fine. If not, I would have an issue.

 

I have noticed he has a lot of listing that explicitly state they are eproms of games and they would go in a cart (that he also sells) and be playable on original hardware. I am not sure if he is making eprom copies of games or just has a supply of eporms he bought already burnt and I assume the royalty paid for. If they are copies he is burning, are we to believe he could still be selling licensed copies and giving a portion to the authors? A license to sell is only ever given when payment is forthcoming for the license from each copy sold. That's got to be the ONLY way he could be selling copies of these old games on eproms. Correct me if I'm wrong (and I can admit I certainly have been before).

 

I think that is probably the main reason I have never bought anything from him (but I have and plan to continue to from Keith and Texin Treasures) and it remains to be seen if he will have something that I covet enough to overlook this stuff and make a purchase. I am no saint. I am not condemning just commenting.

[marc.hull]

I like the idea of a recommended vendor list, especially if it has up-to-date contact information. I think sometimes, especially if someone isn't actively promoting their wares via Ebay or a website, only the longtime list members even know some of these people are out there. I've heard Ron Markus mentioned as the keeper of Asgard Software stock for some time, but I have no idea what he has, if he's still involved in it at all, or how to reach him. That's the kind of info it'd be great to have in a one-stop place, similar to the sticky thread for development resources.

 

Ron popped up about 2 years ago on the old Yahoo list offering a lot of hardware/software (all original in original packaging He sold what he could to individuals and the rest went to Mike Dudek at Texin Treasures (I am about 99 percent sure on this.)

 

There are actually quite a few people who actively sell and/or repair TI gear. The Original software market is a bit more limited but still available if you look.

[+Vorticon]

I buy software from Kyle any time he has an interesting title becaude I like having a nice printed manual which is my main drive for this, not to mention that many of his titles are not available anywhere else. I am not sure however whether he is selling originals or not, but from the looks of what he has been offering lately I would guess not. I know for sure that the original authors are not getting any royalties from these sales. So what I do is simply post these games on the Gameshelf site for all to have. Kyle doesn't seem to mind, because his usual buyers are also looking for a "packaged" program rather than a simple download, so it's a win-win for all.

 

As to the issue of Never-Lander, allow me to play the devil's advocate here for a second:

This game was never intended for commercialization because it was made freely available from the beginning as a download. Kyle is essentially putting it on a physical disk and packaging it for sale, which I presume cover his time, effort and costs plus a margin. This is a service some TI users will actually appreciate, especially those not having the time, inclination, or technical savvy to transfer programs from the Internet to the TI. IMHO, the fact that Kyle is selling Never-Lander should be kind of flattering to Marc. Would I care if he started selling some of my free software (not likely to happen I'm saddened to say as I am not of the same caliber as Marc...)? Not in the least bit as I would view it as helping out a fellow TI user. Now if I was to start selling my own software, that is an entirely different matter, and I highly doubt Kyle will pirate current commercial software.

 

So I say, if Kyle is not selling any active commercial software, why not let him eek out a likely meager living from his endeavours? He certainly is not hurting anyone, except maybe some egoes...

[marc.hull]

I buy software from Kyle any time he has an interesting title becaude I like having a nice printed manual which is my main drive for this, not to mention that many of his titles are not available anywhere else. I am not sure however whether he is selling originals or not, but from the looks of what he has been offering lately I would guess not. I know for sure that the original authors are not getting any royalties from these sales. So what I do is simply post these games on the Gameshelf site for all to have. Kyle doesn't seem to mind, because his usual buyers are also looking for a "packaged" program rather than a simple download, so it's a win-win for all.

 

As to the issue of Never-Lander, allow me to play the devil's advocate here for a second:

This game was never intended for commercialization because it was made freely available from the beginning as a download. Kyle is essentially putting it on a physical disk and packaging it for sale, which I presume cover his time, effort and costs plus a margin. This is a service some TI users will actually appreciate, especially those not having the time, inclination, or technical savvy to transfer programs from the Internet to the TI. IMHO, the fact that Kyle is selling Never-Lander should be kind of flattering to Marc. Would I care if he started selling some of my free software (not likely to happen I'm saddened to say as I am not of the same caliber as Marc...)? Not in the least bit as I would view it as helping out a fellow TI user. Now if I was to start selling my own software, that is an entirely different matter, and I highly doubt Kyle will pirate current commercial software.

 

So I say, if Kyle is not selling any active commercial software, why not let him eek out a likely meager living from his endeavours? He certainly is not hurting anyone, except maybe some egoes...

 

 

 

<CLIP> As to the issue of Never-Lander, allow me to play the devil's advocate here for a second: This game was never intended for commercialization because it was made freely available from the beginning as a download. <CLIP>

 

Exactly ! I never intended anyone to start selling it. Even if he would have bothered to asked permission I would have declined. It was made to be freeware pure and simple.

 

<CLIP> IMHO, the fact that Kyle is selling Never-Lander should be kind of flattering to Marc. <CLIP>

 

Believe me I am not flattered at all by those events. If I caught some one burglarizing my home I wouldn't feel flattered because they though I had stuff worthy of stealing....

 

<CLIP> Now if I was to start selling my own software, that is an entirely different matter <CLIP>

 

Really.... Why would your copyright be different from mine just because you want to sell it ?

 

<CLIP> and I highly doubt Kyle will pirate current commercial software. <CLIP>

 

If someone will steal a dime they will steal a dollar, that's a hard and true fact.

 

<CLIP> So I say, if Kyle is not selling any active commercial software, why not let him eek out a likely meager living from his endeavours? He certainly is not hurting anyone, except maybe some egoes... <CLIP>

 

I can't speak for other copyright holders and the fact is some probably don't care one way or the other but I do ,as far as my intellectual property is concerned. I have every right to determine who can or can't manufacture and sell it. This is really a simple issue Walid in which you may not know the facts, so here they are....

 

Kyle ordered a quantity of Cart boards from Jon.

He downloaded the ROM image from Jon's site and burned some EPROM's. (hmmmmm does that answere questions about EPROMS ?)

He created a Neverlander cart and a label with his name on it.

He put it on E-bay with a starting price of $26.00 in an auction venue.

It took 2 days (and eventually EM's to E-bay) to get him to pull the auction and the EPROMS from his site (which he was very resistant to do.)

 

Perhaps Kyle has gotten away with this kind of crap for so long he feels he has the right to take whatever he feels like for his own gain without even attempting to get permission. I really think that a lot of people let him slide on these issues just because he offers a lot of stuff for sale and they don't want to burn their bridge with him. So be it...I don't begrudge that, but please don't imply that I am out of line for standing my ground on this issue.

 

Marc

[Opry99er]

As for expanding this forum, I would prefer to keep this forum as much geared towards programming as possible. I like Filip's idea of having a second "general TI" forum... But I certainly think this forum does what it's supposed to do. Any non-programming-related TI talk and such would be lovely in another forum... Absolutely. But there is a reason this forum has been so successful and continues to be so. We are specialized here. I'm not going to hear about a bunch of off-topic stuff dealing with monitor compatibility between Commodore and Amiga. There isn't any crap talking about resistors on the Geneve9640 and whatnot. Not that it isn't interesting stuff, but it sure as hell doesn't interest me. Thats why I spend all my TI energy on here and not on the Y. This is really the only stuff that interests me--- game development. Just sayin.

[Opry99er]

Believe me I am not flattered at all by those events. If I caught some one burglarizing my home I wouldn't feel flattered because they though I had stuff worthy of stealing....

 

hahaha!!!! Never thought of it that way!! Interesting way to put it, my friend.

[sometimes99er]

As for expanding this forum, I would prefer to keep this forum as much geared towards programming as possible. I like Filip's idea of having a second "general TI" forum... But I certainly think this forum does what it's supposed to do. Any non-programming-related TI talk and such would be lovely in another forum... Absolutely. But there is a reason this forum has been so successful and continues to be so. We are specialized here. I'm not going to hear about a bunch of off-topic stuff dealing with monitor compatibility between Commodore and Amiga. There isn't any crap talking about resistors on the Geneve9640 and whatnot. Not that it isn't interesting stuff, but it sure as hell doesn't interest me. Thats why I spend all my TI energy on here and not on the Y. This is really the only stuff that interests me--- game development. Just sayin.

 

Owen, you're doing a fine job trying to attract the "good" people (into games, game programming, graphics, music and tools).

 

A general TI forum might attract other TI people. People not too much into "game programming". This might be good.

 

There might be a spill over effect between the 2 forums (general and game programming). If this means having Y! trolls here (game programming), then please ...

 

Edited June 10, 2010 by sometimes99er

[+retroclouds]

I think that a more TI general forum would attrackt new people as well.

Just look at the "classic computers" subforum here on atariage; it sports TI-99/4A releated posts on a regular basis.

As far as the Y! trolls are concerned. I've got the feeling we won't see many of those here...

[S1500]

I would love a general TI-99/4A forum.

[Opry99er]

I agree with you guys on much of this. I have no issue with anyone here.... Even the off topic stuff is fun and lively!! However--- I've seen what an open forum does.... The Y. I just hope a bunch of the stiff-neck off-topic junkies who never contribut anything but clutter and drama don't come over. But you can't control that kind of thing. People will do what they do. Im quite happy with and proud of what we've all been able to accomplish here at Atariage so far... Many wonderful people, excellent banter, a progressively-better and ever-expanding game library and "in-the-works" projects. Im honored to be around such talent and wisdom.

 

For my part---I'd love to see a specialized programming forum and then an "everything else" forum here... This forum we have here is hot shit, man.... I wake up excited every morning to check the latest posts!!!

[+Vorticon]

Perhaps Kyle has gotten away with this kind of crap for so long he feels he has the right to take whatever he feels like for his own gain without even attempting to get permission. I really think that a lot of people let him slide on these issues just because he offers a lot of stuff for sale and they don't want to burn their bridge with him. So be it...I don't begrudge that, but please don't imply that I am out of line for standing my ground on this issue.

 

Marc

This was not implied Marc, because I tend to respect people who stand their ground rather than cower and hide. I have to agree with you that Kyle, out of courtesy if nothing else, should have asked your permission to reproduce your game. Nonetheless, I tend to be far more liberal than you with the programs I put out there, and really don't care what people do with them. As a matter of fact, I always encourage modifications and enhancements if one is so inclined. I guess it's a philosophical difference I really still feel it's kind of flattering that he picked your game to make a cart, and I bet that deep down there is a little bit of that in you too despite all your ill-feelings toward him

Peace my friend.