DickNixonArisen #1 Posted June 8, 2010 Women. You may have noticed them around, and probably noted that they're different from men in several ways. Despite these differences, women are very much like men. Many women enjoy playing video games in their spare time. Are they an underserved demographic? How are they portrayed? How well do they identify with the values of game culture? What does a woman feel when she plays a game as a female character, or as a male one? Ask any devoted game enthusiast you know about Joe Lieberman or Jack Thompson, and you'll find that these men are not very popular with your associate. Infamous for their failed attempts at censoring the burgeoning game industry, they charged that violent actions in games directly correlated to violent actions in real life. Few game players would agree with that, though in private they might admit to feeling aggressive or pumped up after a long session with a violent game. This does not usually translate to an immediate desire to behead people, but it does speak to a truth that must be acknowledged - all media has some effect on its consumer, emotional, physical or even spiritual. A bad game disgusts, a good game amuses, and a beautiful game uplifts. It affects you. What does a woman see when she presses the power button? I'll never know, however many times I put on a dress before firing up the Colecovision. I can guess, though, and that conjecture follows. During the first generation of consoles, there were few women involved in the production of games. Carol Shaw's sublime River Raid for the Atari 2600 was one of the few notable games made by a woman, though there were a few titles aimed specifically at young girls. Strawberry Shortcake Musical Matchups was functional, though hardly a gem. The content of games at this point in time was fairly variable, as genres were still being established and defined. Plenty of shooting was to be had, a little tiny bit of exploration, lots of reflex, and a pinch of critical thinking. The stories and characters were not always well-developed, often seemingly coming as an afterthought. While Kangaroo for the Atari 2600 featured a female protagonist in the form of a mother kangaroo, the game was nothing special play-wise and the character was not developed in any way that might encourage identification with her. Companies that made and sold games seemed to be casting a wide net, rather than targeting specific demographics. Advertising material from the time shows adult men and women along with young boys and girls enjoying the games. In late 1983, as many game-gurus in training know, brought the great crash and gaming entered a period of dormancy, broken by the emergence of the NES, like Atlantis risen again from the abyssal depths. While one early and important title was very Japanese (Space Invaders), this was Japan's great thrust into the market. The content and tropes present in the games were modified in many ways to fit an American audience, but elements of Japanese culture inevitable sept through the cracks and left the games with a unique flavor. Without elaborating, I feel that it's more than fair to say that Japanese society has more strictly defined and confining gender roles than American society. Considering this, it should have come as no surprise to find sexism rampant in games from the time. Women's roles as depicted in games were consistent with any other popular fiction, or more closely, in folk tales or fairy tales. Nintendo's most popular franchises are often referred to as the "Big Three", consisting of the Legend of Zelda, Super Mario Brothers and Metroid games. These were big hits intially and continue be important gameworlds, widely recognized. The Legend of Zelda titles define "legendary" in gaming circles. Tattooing their iconic triforce symbol representing power, wisdom and courage on one's body is not considered unusual at all to many people. Ostensibly the most popular Sword & Sorcery themed game series on consoles, the LOZ games were not RPG's but rather complex top-down action titles with fantasy trappings. The series is named after a princess, rather than the protagonist, Link. In an interesting move, Link has been portrayed not as a discrete individual unit character, but rather as the "Hero of Time", a sort of reincarnating heroic force. While the world of Hyrule is the same from game-to-game, each Link inherits the destiny and power of the hero many generations after the last coming of the hero. Almost messianic in this sense, Link is a representation of "The hero with a thousand faces". This phrase is the title of a seminal work by Joseph Campbell, which explains the nature of the heroic monomyth common to most cultures in the world. As typical with many of the other myths that Link finds himself in company with, his princess is a helpless item to be interacted with. While there is little concrete evidence showing Zelda as his eventual bride outside of the wretchedly out-of-tone cartoon adaption, Link is decidedly her knight in shining armor. His ever-present green coat and constant silence serve only to depersonalize the not-quite-human boy who becomes the hero in every game. Princess Zelda is not detailed in this paragraph for a good reason: She's barely in the game. Captured and kept by Ganon, she is nothing more than a traditional, cliched damsel in distress. Mario, in contast with Link, does not fit the archetype of the mythic hero quite as well. He is male, as the hero usually is, and very brave. He does enter a strange world and rescue a princess from an inhuman monster, but this is where the similarities end. Mario's career began with the early hit Donkey Kong, where Jumpman, as he was called at the time, was called upon to ascend a half-constructed building in an attempt to rescue beauty, Pauline, from the Beast, Donkey Kong. By the time he'd made it to the Mario Brothers game, he'd gained a sibling in Luigi, and had become a plumber. Mario, by all appearances, seems to be in his late thirties. He is no wide-eyed young boy ready to face the dragon and learn to be a man with spilled blood, but rather an embodiment of the purity and power of joy. The creator of Mario, Shigeru Miyamoto, often explains the philosophy behind his desire to create games in terms of exploration and joy, relating games to a garden that one might move around in to experience various pleasing sensations. Mario lives in a world that is cartoony, whimsical, and ultimately joyful even in the darkest ghost house or lava-filled dungeon. Mario jumps eternally off the backs of flying turtles, his high jumps and comically slippery walking controls evidence of the lighthearted feel of the games. Throughout the history of the series, this tone has been carefully maintained. Mario has never gone X-treme, never carried an assault rifle or cursed, though fans may have depicted these hypothetical facets of his character. Princess peach, the main lady of the series, is more likely to eventually be paired romantically with Mario than Zelda is with Link. She's been shown to give him kisses, and his devotion to her is unquestionable. Link seems content to rescue princess Zelda for her own sake, but he usually has the additional impetus of imminent doom - typically the pig-thief Ganon will use princess Zelda to cover the world in some form of generic evilocalypse if she is allowed to remain in his custody. Mario rescues Peach because he likes her, and because he's a decent dude, not because it's that big a deal that she's been kidnapped. It's never been entirely clear what Bowser wants with Peach in general, as he's rarely shown as truly blackhearted. Typically a ransom, political posturing or even just general mischief seem to be his intent, and in later games, he is shown to be somewhat of a softie. Peach is served by a cadre of incompetent myconoids, and she too is the helpess prisoner of a monster, a footnote in the game. Metroid is the last of the big three, and the least popular. Metroid is also the game that birthed the first important female protagonist in video games. If the player finished the title (an artsy, atmospheric platformer set deep inside a lonely, parasite-filled planet) quickly enough, a then-breathtaking fact was brought to light: Samus was a CHICK! Her hair flowing in the presumably-oxygenated breeze of Zebes, she caused quite a reaction in the viewer. It was later discovered that she could be induced to don a vaguely revealing costume for play, though her sexuality was otherwise undefined. What did a girl playing this game think at this time? Was she aware of what was happening, the fact that a character she could see herself in was being shown to her for the first time in a new media? Metroid was no cartoony fun, either. It was a serious blastfest with more than enough explosions and brains in jars. No mention of weakness or vulnerability was here, no caveat explaining how a girl could fight aliens - just a simple portrayal of a warrior woman who was more than capable of defending herself and the universe physically. Here was a new Athena, a new model for female leads. The year was 1986. Women's places in American society have been constantly evolving, in fits and starts, from the crusades of the suffragettes, the emergence of the feminist movement in the sixties and the restructuring of roles from that point to the present. In the year 2010, females make up almost exactly half the the American workforce and are a much larger segment of the video-game playing population than they were in 1986. Widespread sexual violence, social pressure to conform to roles and a lack of representation in the higher levels of government and business are still thick chains around the necks of women, though they have grown somewhat lighter with time. Necessarily, portrayals of women in media have changed. A helpless damsel in distress is no longer a captivating character, even to women who would balk at being called a feminist. The character does not represent what women are or what they are feeling right now. This does not mean that portrayals of women are accurate or healthy, but they have changed from one thing to another. Samus hasn't changed much. Ten installments and twenty-four years later, her thin backstory has been filled in. She is rounded out, like the mature body of a woman, and she has come out a lonely and driven character. It has been revealed that she was an orphan raised by an alien race called the Chozo, who made her trademark armor in several models, and her relationship with the parasitic metroid race has been shown in some detail. The Kraid and Ridley characters have expanded into genuinely menacing monsters with great intelligence, and Samus continues to be shown as a grim, lonely protector, unimpeded by breasts and vagina. One can imagine that a suit capable of safely compacting its wearer into a spinning ball less than a quarter of the wearer's size without harming them can easily handle automatic cleanup of her monthly blood, if her beyond-athletic physique still produces a period. In the new Metroid: other M game, she will speak for the first time. We will wait to see what she has to say, and how believably she says it. While the silent warrior trope is not the most wonderful expression of humanity, Metroid deserves great credit for putting a woman in that place with zero reservations. Princess Peach has come out of the dungeon to a great extent. While she was a helpless damsel in the original SMB title, she appeared as a playable character in the very next game. Her mechanics did not disappoint, as her floating "Flight" was undeniably useful, forcing many 13 year old boys to grudgingly choose a female character to represent themselves. Relegated again to the role of a prisoner in SMB3, she supported Mario financially with her gift-filled letters. A game later, she was still captured, but still trying to help, tossing life-giving mushrooms to her rescuer. It is this that still defines her - incapable of truly defending herself, sweet and demure, but not wholly useless in a fight. Mario's character has not changed in any way, while Luigi is increasingly shown as a timid and jealous man living in the shadow of his famous brother. Peach may not be a badass warrior, but she's no stick in the mud - she enjoys a number of sports including tennis and baseball. She's as handy with a Kart as anyone from the Mushroom Kingdom. Perhaps the most damning evidence of Peach's weakness is her inability to rule her own kingdom. While she commands the respect of her toadying Toad and his many fungal brethren, she does not have the ability to defend her territory militarily, diplomatically or economically. She relies wholly on Mario and Luigi along with her elder advisors to solve domestic problems. She is, in short, a puppet ruler, no Victoria, and not a great role model for any girls who are paying attention, nor a great example of what a woman should be for any boys who might be looking for a princess. Zelda is somewhere in between. While she spent the entire first game captured and the entire second one asleep (and unguarded! Apparently Hyrule is thankfully rape-free), she eventually begins to take a more active role. In the breathtaking final moments of Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker, Link assists her in firing magical arrows into Ganon's cloaked form before Link leaps into the air and buries the master sword deep in the warlock's brain. A similar moment occurs in the most recent title, "Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks". That game in particular goes one further, allowing the disembodied princess to accompany Link on his journey, temporarily occupying rather menacing suits of armor (which become pink to show their femininity and emblazoned with the winged triforce to indicate their royal stature). Legend of Zelda: Twilight princess introduces ANOTHER princess to the world of Hyrule. Midna is a very female saucy, intelligent, sarcastic, strangely pre-pubescent imp. Initially disdainful and haughty, she grows into a relationship with link and shifts abruptly at the end of the game into a entrancing, fully sexual queen. Her humor, poise and emotionally laden parting with Link steal the show from the Zelda of this game - a sacrificial maiden in mourning who gives her life to Midna midway through the title before returning to life. A similar incarnation of Zelda is Tetra, the tomboyish pirate captain who exists in some form or other from Wind Waker through Phantom Hourglass into Spirit Tracks (these three games share a close continuity not seen in other LOZ titles). One could easily imagine Tetra chewing tobacco, and she handily commands a shipful of burly "pirates" through her cunning and confidence. Perhaps the most powerful incarnation of Zelda is Sheikh - a desert nomad, presumably male, who is revealed to be the princess in disguise. Though each Link and each Zelda in the main-canon Zelda titles are not related to each other, the total picture that the princess provides shows progress towards independence and power. She is on her way from a passive role to being an inspiring woman. In fact, it's not entirely impossible that the anthropomorphic sword shown near Link in early art for the new, unreleased Zelda game is the princess herself. It's not inconceivable that Zelda could one day be PRINCE Zelda, rescued by a female incarnation of the hero of time, either. Outside of the bubble of the big three titles, you'll find the depiction of women to be a scarred battlefield. Chun-Li, a chinese woman from the genre-defining Street Fighter games, is one of the better female characters popular now. Her strength of character matches the massively muscled thighs that sum up her sexuality - if a male would fantasize about making love to her, he must necessarily accept that the physical power of her legs would make the act someting like putting his head in the lion's mouth, and trusting her not to bite. She is shown to successfully defend herself against an attempted rape by Balrog (Vega in the US) in the animated movie, though the scene is genuinely disturbing and her victory is not a foregone conclusion at any point. Outside of the gratuitous fanservice shower scene in this movie, Chun Li's sexuality is not a huge selling point for her character. Her upbeat spirit, very Chinese devotion to the memory of her father and her excellence as a character in actual gameplay define her. She cries when she loses, unlike any of the male characters, but she's back in the fight before the tears dry, vaulting around on mighty tree-like legs. Many women in games are shown as physically powerful, aggressive, so-called "badass" girls. The femme fatale archetype. They invariably flaunt their sexuality with revealing costumes designed more to accentuate the breasts than protect against swordblow. Tellingly, their bodies do not show the muscle that training as a warrior would build. They caught in a lie, shown to have great physical strength and skill, but with bodies that represent only light athleticism, soft curvaceous bodies. Attempts to make women more "realistic", or in actuality, just as unrealistic but more consistent with the anatomical depictions of men in games, have met with protest. Apparently, a muscular woman is "ugly", while a muscular man is good-looking. Even in hell itself, or horrible sci-fi futureworlds ravaged by Alien invasion, women don't need to bulk up to survive as long as they have cleavage, presumably showing to distract the enemy. Another less common archetype, seen more often in the JRPG and adapted from Anime, is the sacrificial maiden. This is an idealistic, giving girl who gives her own life to prevent some evil from happening. Their bland acceptance of the world is frustrating to watch, though they are often shown to extend kindness when others are unwilling to or simply have not thought to. Colette from the Tales of Symphonia games is an example of this girl, though she survives to become a strong woman. In that game, she is offset by the femme-fatale type of Sheena. The flipside to the Sacrificial maiden is the Dark Lady, a powerful woman allied with evil but with a strong individualistic streak which sometimes leads to good acts. This is even less common and more interesting than other types of women shown in games. What would the best depiction of a woman in a game contain? A woman that would make me stand up and cheer? Her sexuality would not define her, but it would not be ignored. She would be capable of physical action if necessary, dressed in clothes that were appropriate for the conditions, and she would use her emotional and mental abilities to solve problems. In short, she would be Jade, from the critically-acclaimed Beyond Good and Evil. In the end, videogames earn neither damnation nor praise for their take on the Yin half of the world - their depictions of women are on par with movies and literature. But they do have a unique opportunity to make a better mark - they are interactive, and increasingly deep stories demand more accurate gender roles to be believable. More static forms like literature and music do not allow their audience to determine what type of woman they will be, and this will be one of the many reasons games will eventually eclipse all other forms of discrete artistic media in popularity. \ 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dittohead Servbot #24 #2 Posted June 8, 2010 (edited) "[samus] unimpeded by breasts and vagina" *****PLOT SPOILERS FOR METROID 2 AND SUPER METROID***** That's not entirely 100% true. The end of Metroid 2 and what would later become a major plot element in Super Metroid was when Samus almost wiped out all the Metroids on SR388 but then on her way out came across a Metroid egg which hatched into a Metroid baby/larva. As the intro of Super Metroid showed, Samus did aim her gun at it at first (I guess out of reflex?), but wouldn't you know it, the Metroid larva "imprinted" the first thing it saw (Samus) and Samus' maternal instinct clearly kicked in and took the Metroid larva as it were her own child (and she does say in the Super Metroid intro that it "followed me around like a confused child"). Then of course near the end, the now fully grown (to say the least) Metroid nearly killed Samus until it realized who she was and backed away and then later saved Samus from being killed by Mother Brain (who then killed the Metroid; pretty sad actually...). My point is, yes she was indeed a no-nonsense warrior, but it's simply not accurate to say that her feminine qualities never were a factor; in fact it was a key plot factor in what most to this day consider the greatest Metroid game of all. I don't suppose you could include any commentary on the main antagonist in the MegaMan Legends Trilogy, Tron Bonne could you? Edited June 8, 2010 by Dittohead Servbot #24 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickNixonArisen #3 Posted June 8, 2010 "[samus] unimpeded by breasts and vagina" *****PLOT SPOILERS FOR METROID 2 AND SUPER METROID***** That's not entirely 100% true. The end of Metroid 2 and what would later become a major plot element in Super Metroid was when Samus almost wiped out all the Metroids on SR388 but then on her way out came across a Metroid egg which hatched into a Metroid baby/larva. As the intro of Super Metroid showed, Samus did aim her gun at it at first (I guess out of reflex?), but wouldn't you know it, the Metroid larva "imprinted" the first thing it saw (Samus) and Samus' maternal instinct clearly kicked in and took the Metroid larva as it were her own child (and she does say in the Super Metroid intro that it "followed me around like a confused child"). Then of course near the end, the now fully grown (to say the least) Metroid nearly killed Samus until it realized who she was and backed away and then later saved Samus from being killed by Mother Brain (who then killed the Metroid; pretty sad actually...). My point is, yes she was indeed a no-nonsense warrior, but it's simply not accurate to say that her feminine qualities never were a factor; in fact it was a key plot factor in what most to this day consider the greatest Metroid game of all. I don't suppose you could include any commentary on the main antagonist in the MegaMan Legends Trilogy, Tron Bonne could you? Hey, great point. I'm not sure that sparing your enemy should be considered a feminine weakness, but you do cite evidence that it was indeed a maternal instinct that stayed her hand. And you are pretty well-spoken for a servbot. How do you type with your hands up in the air like that all the time? I'll think about it. Rest assured you're in safe company as far as MM64/legends - I think it's one of the most underrated games of the era. Although it was pretty damn weird that he was so enthusiastic about seeing roll, who was essentially his sister, in her underwear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dittohead Servbot #24 #4 Posted June 8, 2010 In Legends 2, MegaMan sees his sister (and YES, Roll is MegaMan's adopted sister; I once provided proof of that fact back when I was more active in the Legends community) in the bathtub nekkid. He then pumps his fist afterward; how sick!! And then of course everyone knows that famous scene after he defeats Tron in her Gustaff and he's just got that priceless look on his face as he's gawking at Tron after her clothes "get um, kinda um, ripped off..." as one of the Servbots said. He sure is such a perv, isn't he? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kool kitty89 #5 Posted June 9, 2010 I haven't finished reading entirely yet, but a a couple comments on what I've read: On the violent games (granted, not the main topic), I personally get no more "pumped up" (adrenaline rush) from overly violent action games than non-violent, realistic or fantasy. It's really just dependent on how much I get "into" or immersed in the game, and how it's paced. (many FPSs and flight sims as well as rail shooters really get me going, some action/adventure games, some survival horror games in a bit of a different way: graphic adventures less so unless the atmosphere is really dark and immersive -Myst used to get me when I was little, but I honestly prefer more lighthearted/comedic graphic adventures) Big boss battles in Zelda games (especially LTP, OOT, and MM), Star Fox on SNES, Star Fox 64 to a lesser extent, Rogue Squadron, X-Wing (series), Wing Commander (less versed in that series), several FPSs, really anything that I get into the moment with, some 3D platformers too, especially SM64. (to the point of getting angry at being disturbed ) But if anything it's limited to while I'm playing or immediately after. (never affected my perception of reality, just my mood) Also, you mentioned Carol Shaw prominently, but I think Roberta Williams would be significant too, though more for computer games if you consider those separate from "video games" (if you implied on consoles specifically). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickNixonArisen #6 Posted June 9, 2010 Also, you mentioned Carol Shaw prominently, but I think Roberta Williams would be significant too, though more for computer games if you consider those separate from "video games" (if you implied on consoles specifically). Right, thought about her too. Hottubby lady, but I was kind of ignoring computers. There was a lady who did some good work on the spectrum in Britain as well, forget her name. As far as getting pumped from games, I agree. I was trying to make the point that games do affect us, just maybe not in the way that the haters might think. I DO feel like doing ninjumping moves after playing certain games. It ends badly, every time. I would argue that mood is part of our perception of reality, which is an incredibly broad phrase counting history, identity/sense of self, the place of other humans, plants and animals in our world, etc. Just like if you're having a bad day, you don't think humans are very nice people. This wasn't my best work... four AM blues. I should write one about bullet hell and the zen mind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kool kitty89 #7 Posted June 9, 2010 Also, you seem to omit a ton of stuff from later Zelda games. In LTP she takes a more active role, though not too much defining her character overall. In OOT, there's a huge shift: starting with a fairly typical adolescent princess spying on her father's affairs, you the meet Impa, who is anything but a damsel as Zelda's guardian, skilled in combat and member of the Sheikah. Then you have the Gerudo, the Zelda equivalent of the Amazon warriors of Greek mythology, granted, still ruled by a King, but with a female counterpart.(and the only male in their society, and in that case, Gannondorf, with Nabooru, the leader of the Gerudo denying and defying him after his evil intentions became apparent). Then there's Zelda later in the game: Sheik, the mysterious warrior donning the garb of the Sheikah and subtly aiding Link in his quest though much of the latter part of the game, finally revealing herself to, in fact, be the Princess of Hyrule. A fact particularly shocking given many gamers assumed Sheik to be male up to that point. (I always though she was female, particularly given Impa, but hadn't guessed her true identity) She also aids you in the final battle with Gannon, using her power to enable you to deliver the final blow. Then, in Wind Waker, there's there's Petra, the young (saucy to use your words) tomboyish pirate captain later revealed to, in fact, be princess Zelda. (and aid you in the final battle, as you already mentioned) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickNixonArisen #8 Posted June 9, 2010 Also, you seem to omit a ton of stuff from later Zelda games. Yeah, I uh, how to say this... I've never played Ocarina... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rev #9 Posted June 9, 2010 are you that same long winded guy who sells atari junk on ebay? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickNixonArisen #10 Posted June 9, 2010 Nope, not for years. Instead of selling Atari stuff, I pile it all up, get naked and oily, and writhe around on top of it. I have youtubes up of it.. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kool kitty89 #11 Posted June 9, 2010 (edited) As far as getting pumped from games, I agree. I was trying to make the point that games do affect us, just maybe not in the way that the haters might think. I DO feel like doing ninjumping moves after playing certain games. It ends badly, every time. I would argue that mood is part of our perception of reality, which is an incredibly broad phrase counting history, identity/sense of self, the place of other humans, plants and animals in our world, etc. Just like if you're having a bad day, you don't think humans are very nice people. Yep, and your mood afterward depends on what happened too: if you completed the game, or a significant portion: resulting in a feeling of satisfying accomplishment and sometimes relief, lost the game (in such games) or became so frustrated to quit for the time being (for other game types, ie saves and no limits on lives/continues), or are interrupted and forced to stop playing when you'd really rather not. (ie real life responsibilities) And that's not taking into account things like lost/corrupted game saves, or game or a game freezing/glitching. (that's not the context I intended for the forced interruption I mentioned above) Also, you seem to omit a ton of stuff from later Zelda games. Yeah, I uh, how to say this... I've never played Ocarina... I've never played Link's Awakening. (I think it often comes down to that game and OOT as the "best" in the series -not sure I agree though) Well there's 3 platforms you could play it on. (N64, GC, Wii -via VC or GC compatibility, and it's on at least 2 different games for the GC -collection and master quest) Majora's Mask had the Gerudo's too, of course, and you could probably say things about Navi and Tattle, then the variety of other significant female characters of those games and Wind Waker. (including the flippant, headstrong Deku Scrub princess, overbearing princess Ruto from OOT, and Saria, of course) Then there's the 3 Golden Goddesses (Nayru, Din, and Farore, also featured in Wind Waker), then there's the Great Fairies too. The more I think on it, the more examples I remember. It seems with a console devoid of Metroid games, Nintendo made up for it with Zelda. (granted, not with playable characters) But anyway: http://www.zeldawiki.org/Sheikah (albeit not exclusively female, the major characters depicted are almost, if not entirely female) http://www.zeldawiki.org/Gerudo Interesting topic though. Edited June 9, 2010 by kool kitty89 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickNixonArisen #12 Posted June 9, 2010 Yea. I think I'll expand and clean this up, but I have some other writing projects to do first. Not sure if I should focus it on the big three and do it more in depth with citations or if I should make a more general statement and let it get a lot bigger. I'm pretty interested in feminism and have taken a few courses, read more than a few books. I just love women, I guess. Although the more you learn about women's problems, the more you understand that men's problems cause women's problems, and that men need help as much or more. We're not a different species. I actually do care how women are portrayed in games, because I think it affects the way the players of those games think, even in some small way. Especially if they're younger, and kids play games younger and younger now. That's what my off-focus first paragraph was trying to establish - that it matters, because it affects, and gender and sexuality are a source of great pain and conflict. I own OOT on the N64 and GCN, just haven't gotten into it. Played the first five minutes about five times. Not seeing the brilliance quite yet. Took me a while to get into TP, though, and that was rude as hell so I should just suck it up and get in there. Own and have not played Majora's mask as well. Own and have not played Minish cap. Own and have beaten every other Zelda! Yay! Wellll... not the CD-I ones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kool kitty89 #13 Posted June 9, 2010 Many women in games are shown as physically powerful, aggressive, so-called "badass" girls. The femme fatale archetype. They invariably flaunt their sexuality with revealing costumes designed more to accentuate the breasts than protect against swordblow. Tellingly, their bodies do not show the muscle that training as a warrior would build. They caught in a lie, shown to have great physical strength and skill, but with bodies that represent only light athleticism, soft curvaceous bodies. Attempts to make women more "realistic", or in actuality, just as unrealistic but more consistent with the anatomical depictions of men in games, have met with protest. Apparently, a muscular woman is "ugly", while a muscular man is good-looking. Even in hell itself, or horrible sci-fi futureworlds ravaged by Alien invasion, women don't need to bulk up to survive as long as they have cleavage, presumably showing to distract the enemy. Another less common archetype, seen more often in the JRPG and adapted from Anime, is the sacrificial maiden. This is an idealistic, giving girl who gives her own life to prevent some evil from happening. Their bland acceptance of the world is frustrating to watch, though they are often shown to extend kindness when others are unwilling to or simply have not thought to. Colette from the Tales of Symphonia games is an example of this girl, though she survives to become a strong woman. In that game, she is offset by the femme-fatale type of Sheena. The flipside to the Sacrificial maiden is the Dark Lady, a powerful woman allied with evil but with a strong individualistic streak which sometimes leads to good acts. This is even less common and more interesting than other types of women shown in games. What would the best depiction of a woman in a game contain? A woman that would make me stand up and cheer? Her sexuality would not define her, but it would not be ignored. She would be capable of physical action if necessary, dressed in clothes that were appropriate for the conditions, and she would use her emotional and mental abilities to solve problems. In short, she would be Jade, from the critically-acclaimed Beyond Good and Evil. I'll have to say that while stereotypically true (for games and other media) there are a good amount of other notable exceptions too, where characters not only act/perform athletically, but have a physique to match. Other than the series you already mentioned. (there's Cammy too, of course) And the examples in Zelda I gave (especially Sheik and Impa), there's a number of others that come to mind, and while not necessarily overly athletic, appear far from frail or petite whatsoever. (realistically speaking, there's a pretty finite limit on what the human body should be capable of before it's obviously unnatural, I men in the sense of obviously augmented -steroids- other than rare cases of natural hormonal imbalance) And aside from the physique, cases where, while still attractive (personal taste, of course), by fare aren't the immediate object of sexuality (more of an average build, not super busty, or over pronounced wardrobe) given the depiction of the character. Anyway, in sci-fi and fantacy stuff, Leela from Doctor Who, and Xena pop straight to mind, and for that last comment above, Sigourney Weaver as Ellen Ripley in the Alien series certainly applies (not overly muscular, but moderately athletic build, and a gritty character design, with tough personality to say the least). Then there's Aeryn Sun in Farscape, tough and athletic, and again, not glamerous. (though given the rather significant sexual undertone in that series, it does break part of what I said above, but that was part of that series in general, not the character) Tia Carrere as Relic Hunter's Syndey Fox is another TV example to some extent, though a bit more on the sex appeal side, still fare more realistically portrayed than the game that series was inspired by. (Tomb Raider, though the character design has become more realistically in some more recent installments -particularly in terms of muscular build) As for video games, I know there are plenty of other examples from what were already listed, and outside of fighting games: I can think of obvious examples of the stereotypical cases, but that's not what were looking for. Rather, there are other cases of female leads and heroines that break the stereotype in some sense, though not necessarily the athletic type either. (Heather/Cheryl from Silent Hill III -or Alessa from the original- more of a typical teenage girl, not revealing clothing -outside of cheats/unlockable stuff, there's the short skirt, but really nothing out of the ordinary, maybe Jill Valentine and Joana Dark too, depending on which incarnation you compare) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kool kitty89 #14 Posted June 9, 2010 Yea. I think I'll expand and clean this up, but I have some other writing projects to do first. Not sure if I should focus it on the big three and do it more in depth with citations or if I should make a more general statement and let it get a lot bigger. I'm pretty interested in feminism and have taken a few courses, read more than a few books. I just love women, I guess. Although the more you learn about women's problems, the more you understand that men's problems cause women's problems, and that men need help as much or more. We're not a different species. I actually do care how women are portrayed in games, because I think it affects the way the players of those games think, even in some small way. Especially if they're younger, and kids play games younger and younger now. That's what my off-focus first paragraph was trying to establish - that it matters, because it affects, and gender and sexuality are a source of great pain and conflict. Yeah, that is interesting, and I could go into a lot of detail on my unique perspective (or rather, less common, though all our experiences are unique), but that's going into another topic entirely and I tend to ramble as it is. Suffice it to say that I had a lot of female friends from a young age, guy friends too, but definitely a lot of girls I liked hanging out with, it shifted somewhat in highschool, but not entirely (in part simply because some of my previous friends had moved or were otherwise no longer in contact, and I just didn't meat all that many who had shared interests in the same way -including video games, that wasn't limited to girls either), and that;s talking about good, of fairly good friends, not just acquaintances I was on pretty good terms with and had known for a while. So yeah, that's to put it briefly. That and I was/am fairly sensitive emotionally, so maybe that has some tie into it too -not to mention I've never been really pushed to conform one way or another, quite the opposite on the whole, with reinforcement pushing aside such cases of peer pressure on the whole. (probably my overall school experience too, certainly breaking common stereotypes in several other ways, especially high school) But see, I'm rambling already. I own OOT on the N64 and GCN, just haven't gotten into it. Played the first five minutes about five times. Not seeing the brilliance quite yet. Took me a while to get into TP, though, and that was rude as hell so I should just suck it up and get in there. Own and have not played Majora's mask as well. Own and have not played Minish cap. Own and have beaten every other Zelda! Yay! Wellll... not the CD-I ones. Zelda's adventure might have been OK had it not been for the unbuffered screen flipping. (so load times for every new frame) There's a lot I haven't played, or played all the way though, but I liked the N64 games a lot. Some find Majora's Mask Tedious, but I really liked it. (honestly, the long periods of time spent sailing in Wind Waker were more annoying than the time limit in MM IMO, not that the sailing didn't make for good exploration, but a bit tedious at times) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickNixonArisen #15 Posted June 9, 2010 Thanks. I'll look into those, mostly outside of my range (no PS, XBOX, etc). I don't mind the occasional sexualized breast-bouncing girl character, as long as there are plenty of other types of women shown as well. A continuum to select your role model from, if you're a little girl playing a game. I guess I'm saying that there's room for a few Mai Shiranui's, as long as there are Athenas on the same team. Cammy is pretty much your typical fighting game girl, I'd say? Scantily clad, on the slim side of shapely, and shown to be as physically powerful as the males. That sparks a thought - if the market dictates a female character in your fighter (simply because a certain portion of your audience is female and a certain portion wants to see a female), then the fighter must be included. If the game is to have any balance, she must be close in strength to the males. It's almost as if you couldn't put a weak female in a fighter if you tried... I guess the balance they try to strike as far as that goes is making the females weaker but also typically quicker or more agile, with things like doublejump, better dashes, or triangle jumps. I'm not as good as I'd like to be at fighting games, but I do better with a quick character, who tends to be female more often than not. Another thing people seem to enjoy is the supposed "Contrast" or "Irony" implicit when a young, physically weak female has great mental/emotional/spiritual/magical power. That's a huge trope, counting 'magical girl' in anime, but also 'girl with superpowers but no memory, typically an experiment' like the one from Firefly, or Terra in FF3/6 and 'girl with huge power in her that is hard to contain'. Dizzy in Guilty Gear, for example, seems to be one of those. Her power manifests in way too many different attacks with good useage and different ranges. Pretty broken. Again, I'm no wizard at fighting, but I don't have to try too hard if I pick her. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kool kitty89 #16 Posted June 9, 2010 (edited) Thanks. I'll look into those, mostly outside of my range (no PS, XBOX, etc). I don't mind the occasional sexualized breast-bouncing girl character, as long as there are plenty of other types of women shown as well. A continuum to select your role model from, if you're a little girl playing a game. I guess I'm saying that there's room for a few Mai Shiranui's, as long as there are Athenas on the same team. What games did I mention that were PSX/Xbox specific? The only one I can see is the Perfect Dark reference, but that's only if you assumed PDZero, and no the N64 original. (unless you don't own an N64 either) All the others are multiplatform unless I skimmed over my own text. (and most of the examples are on PC, if not Nintendo consoles -Many RE games are on PC, that's the only way I've ever played Silent Hill 3 -or 2- and there's several Resident Evil exclusives to the GC -I don't own any, not a huge RE fan actually) Cammy is pretty much your typical fighting game girl, I'd say? Scantily clad, on the slim side of shapely, and shown to be as physically powerful as the males. That sparks a thought - if the market dictates a female character in your fighter (simply because a certain portion of your audience is female and a certain portion wants to see a female), then the fighter must be included. If the game is to have any balance, she must be close in strength to the males. It's almost as if you couldn't put a weak female in a fighter if you tried... I guess the balance they try to strike as far as that goes is making the females weaker but also typically quicker or more agile, with things like doublejump, better dashes, or triangle jumps. I'm not as good as I'd like to be at fighting games, but I do better with a quick character, who tends to be female more often than not. Well, Cammy is depicted as being a bit more muscular in the arms (and there's the well defined abs) compared to Chun Li, especially in the box/manual art work, but I guess more typical. (the Mortal Kombat stuff gets a bit weird in general, though that's a more surreal kind of game, more like some of the comic themed fighters, Soul Calibur, Tekken, King of fighters and such are more in line with SF to some extent; DoA is another story ) But I totally agree on the latter part: I'm not a huge fighting game fan, more so in having to memorize combos, and once I realized how easy it was to play as Chun Li, that's when I actually started enjoying SFII (fighters with lots of combos I tend to simply button mash, and in some cases, it works -I've had friends really frustrated at me playing one of the DoA and most recently MKvsDCU when I kept winning by just mashing buttons and following blatant action commands) Another thing people seem to enjoy is the supposed "Contrast" or "Irony" implicit when a young, physically weak female has great mental/emotional/spiritual/magical power. That's a huge trope, counting 'magical girl' in anime, but also 'girl with superpowers but no memory, typically an experiment' like the one from Firefly, or Terra in FF3/6 and 'girl with huge power in her that is hard to contain'. Dizzy in Guilty Gear, for example, seems to be one of those. Her power manifests in way too many different attacks with good useage and different ranges. Pretty broken. Again, I'm no wizard at fighting, but I don't have to try too hard if I pick her. True, that's a pretty common anime theme, though not it's not strictly limited to that either. (maybe less often as the sole, central character, but I can think of several western animated series that apply, and not in shows primarily aimed at girls either, sometimes going a god bit past what those anime exaples tend to be with more tomboyish characters appearing more often, but that's another topic entirely ) If you go back to classic games there's tons of examples of femail major or lead characters as well as several examples of female villains. Sometimes int he typical anime "magical girl" sense, or slightly less typical (Cotton is portrayed as a bit of a loud mouth and a bit rude at times). But there's several action/adventure titles on Sega platforms, and a good amount in RPGs of various platforms, of course. (on that note I'll say that in cases of RPGs/adventure/strategy games where you can chose a male of female character, or build your own, I almost always end up choosing or building a female character: happened with Unreal -albeit that was originally going to a female lead exclusively, happened with Diablo II, and several others; actually my screen name is from the Rune Scape character I created back in my sophomore year in high school ) It does depend on the game to some extent though. But jumping back to Sega: Popful Mail comes to mind, and I already mentioned Cotton (albeit those were Japan only at the time iirc), and I remember at least one sidescrolling adventure game (a bit like the Monster World games) with a female lead, but I can't remember the name. And in the RPGs/strategy games, the female characters are cast as warriors a fair amount of the time, not just mages or such. I know there's several prominent female characters in the Phantasy Star series, but I'm not well versed in those games. (actually not the Final Fantasy games either, but I'm more familiar with those due to the prominent place in media -and parodies ) Edit: Turns out I WAS thinking of a monster world game: Monster World IV, which didn't get a Western Release on the MD/Genesis unfortunately. But when looking around I also remembered Trouble Shooter. (come to think of it, there's also a couple space shooters with Female pilots prominently depicted on the MD, I think at least one of those was also Japan only -both came up in a list of JP games that should have made it to the west too) Edited June 9, 2010 by kool kitty89 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kool kitty89 #17 Posted June 9, 2010 (edited) Heh, that shooter I was thinking of was Gleylancer, yet another JP MD release, again from the same discussion on games that should have been released in the west. But in that line, there's very notable female main characters in the Wing Commander series, and Rebel Assault also comes to mind. There's also Twinkle Tale, another JP release on the MD, weird hybrid of overhead Action adventure and shmup. Edited June 9, 2010 by kool kitty89 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickNixonArisen #18 Posted June 10, 2010 Mhm. I definitely do the Phantasy Star series, and Alis is definitely the main character in the first one. She's not the only female main character in an early console RPG either, there's legend of the ghost lion. As far as my platforms, I haven't played a PC game of any kind since... to keep it girly, jill of the jungle. Since a long time. I am also way too scared of zombies to play resi's. I have a zombie issue. Not scared of real corpses, which I deal with from time to time as a nurse's aide. (I clean them). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kool kitty89 #19 Posted June 11, 2010 Silent hill isn't Zombies per se though, but weird, demented, freakish, psychologically distorted monsters, some of which are reminiscent of zombies and may be construed as undead. (though it's really up to the player to interpret it relative to the plot, and depending on the game) I like the adventure and puzzle solving aspect more than the RE games anyway (never actually played any RE game very seriously -not as interesting, and the later ones just feel like 3rd person shooters with a horror theme and the camera issues FPSs lack), a bit like classic graphic adventures in that respect; more like Grimm Fandango in the sense that it's realtime and 3D or pseudo 3D. (the first few games have a lot of pre-rendered sections like RE and Grimm Fandango) But man is there a heavy psychological force in the horror/fear of those games. (the first 3 are best, arguably first 2) And Jungle Jane, wasn't that a CPC game? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickNixonArisen #20 Posted June 11, 2010 Oh, yea. Jill of the Jungle was like one of those PC shareware games from the era of Commander Keen and that fantasy doom clone, labyrinth.. something. There are a lot of things I don't like about RE games, but the controls are the main issue. They really add to the fear for me (which I'm sure was intentional), since they're essentially tank controls, you don't feel that sense of freedom that you do in some games. I've always thought (regarding RE 4, which is the only one I currently own) that If I could take Wind Waker Link into it, I'd be happily ducking behind them and hookshotting to safety. The freedom of movement, speed, would essentially translate into power, and power reduces fear. I'm not scared of the Umbrella Chronicles, darkside, or HOTD games because I'm good enough at those that I don't feel overwhelmed. I still feel enough of a sense of power. The HOTD games are not meant to be scary anyway, I don't think. Too cartoony. In a real RE, at least a later one, with the less-than-agile human and limited ammo, the zombie factor just pushes it over the edge into genuinely frightening - a marvelous accomplishment. It's actually pretty cool that a game can be scary. I'm not sure any game did this successfully before. I don't do horror movies myself, and I doubt that everyone is so solidly scared by RE's, since it seems like people build up a tolerance to horror material. To bring it back to the whole 'women as shown in games' thing, there's Claire, Sheva and Jill, who are all shown as very capable, tough, etc. They're not oversexualized OR masculinized, but simply allowed to exist "Realistically", at least within the context of that game world. With three good examples, it's then perfectly acceptable to show Ashley being so helpless. It would be a poor choice if there were four games where the player had to coach and protect weak females. (I also HATE dragging an NPC along in a game. HATE. I haven't tried ICO for that reason, even though I understand that it's brilliant, and as I stated I've never got far enough into RE4 to find Ashley. Even in older games. Probably the best one for me was the bird-girl or Seed-dude in Wind Waker... they weren't coded to be much of a burden on your character's movement, since you could sit them down and expect them to be relatively safe, call them to you, etc, etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herbarius #21 Posted June 11, 2010 (edited) It's actually pretty cool that a game can be scary. I'm not sure any game did this successfully before. First of all, it's VERY subjective. Some people find something scary, others not a bit, especially when it comes to games. But to go back to the game that might have been the first game to succesfully "be scary" (at least for most players), I have to say System Shock, which predates the first Resident Evil by 2 years. However, again something subjective, for many people today it's not scary anymore, because the graphics are so outdated. For the time however they were quite good. You make your way through the dark corridors of a space station, behind every corner may be an agressive mutant, robot or cyborg out to kill you. Ammunition is scarce, you can't survive a lot of hits. You soon learn to listen for the "trademark sounds" of different types of hostiles. While you may have some hope to find other survivors at the beginning of the game, you'll soon realize that everyone else is dead, has been mutated or turned into cyborgs by the evil computer. Oh yes, did I mention it, the whole station is under control of an Artificial Intelligence that has gone mad and pictures itself as a god! Also, you play from a first-person perspective. In my opinion, this way a game can be much more scary than it ever could be if it's third person. Edited June 11, 2010 by Herbarius Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
high voltage #22 Posted June 11, 2010 (edited) Not a very good essay, focussing mainly on Zelda and Metroid??? Oh you mentioned Carol Shaw....ever heard of Rebecca Heineman? Suki Lee? Marilyn Churchill? Laura Nikolich??? All these are early VCS artists, together with a softography of over 200 titles. On VCS game Ghost Manor (Xonox 1983), the (nameless) girl saves her friend from Dracula, no less. In Sir Lancelot and Robin Hood, the women locked up in the castles have to be saved from enemies and dragons (also Xonox (1983), like Mario did later on NES Anita Sinclair is the British programmer somebody here was thinking of, working mainly on computer games. Here's one, from Level 9 Computing: Female computer character in UK computer game Snowball (1983), Return to Eden (1984) Kim Kimberly was a female hero in the Silicon Dreams trilogy (Atari 800) and would kick Samus' butt. (The protagonist in the two first instalments, Kim Kimberley, is a tall, athletic, intelligent woman with brown eyes and fair hair. She was born and raised at Hampstead Crèche, which was closed when she was 13 due to violations of the Android Protection Acts. She finished her education at the Milton Keynes School of Life in Malta, then returned to England for National Service. She started out doing standard security work with the occasional surveillance of subversive members of society, but ended working as a counter-espionage agent. Still in her twenties, Kim accepted to travel undercover on the Snowball 9 to be there as the last resort for the worst-case scenario.) Samus in 1986? Old hat. So it's a computer game, so what, I always include computer games. Edited June 11, 2010 by high voltage 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kool kitty89 #23 Posted June 12, 2010 It's actually pretty cool that a game can be scary. I'm not sure any game did this successfully before. First of all, it's VERY subjective. Some people find something scary, others not a bit, especially when it comes to games. But to go back to the game that might have been the first game to succesfully "be scary" (at least for most players), I have to say System Shock, which predates the first Resident Evil by 2 years. However, again something subjective, for many people today it's not scary anymore, because the graphics are so outdated. For the time however they were quite good. You make your way through the dark corridors of a space station, behind every corner may be an agressive mutant, robot or cyborg out to kill you. Ammunition is scarce, you can't survive a lot of hits. You soon learn to listen for the "trademark sounds" of different types of hostiles. While you may have some hope to find other survivors at the beginning of the game, you'll soon realize that everyone else is dead, has been mutated or turned into cyborgs by the evil computer. Oh yes, did I mention it, the whole station is under control of an Artificial Intelligence that has gone mad and pictures itself as a god! Also, you play from a first-person perspective. In my opinion, this way a game can be much more scary than it ever could be if it's third person. Well yeah, System Shock's a classic. The original Alone in the Dark (the sequel came out just after System Shock) would have to be among the classics though. There were some horror themed graphical and text adventures prior to that (though many with a humorous undertone), but Alone in the dark is generally the first survival horror game to fit the modern discription. (possibly the first really scary one) It does have a good bit of suspense and good shocks to it, though the graphics are a bit laughable by today's standards (for what that's worth ). System shock really gets the psychological horror down though. (similar with the sequel, and then there's the more recent bioshock games, and the Silent Hill series, of course) I've seen a good bit of System shock, but haven't played it, that's one on my list though (and the sequel). The Silent Hill games tend to have the tank-like controls as well, I think. It does indeed give a more claustrophobic feel. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickNixonArisen #24 Posted June 12, 2010 Not a very good essay, focussing mainly on Zelda and Metroid??? Oh you mentioned Carol Shaw....ever heard of Rebecca Heineman? Suki Lee? Marilyn Churchill? Laura Nikolich??? All these are early VCS artists, together with a softography of over 200 titles. On VCS game Ghost Manor (Xonox 1983), the (nameless) girl saves her friend from Dracula, no less. In Sir Lancelot and Robin Hood, the women locked up in the castles have to be saved from enemies and dragons (also Xonox (1983), like Mario did later on NES Anita Sinclair is the British programmer somebody here was thinking of, working mainly on computer games. Here's one, from Level 9 Computing:Female computer character in UK computer game Snowball (1983), Return to Eden (1984)Kim Kimberly was a female hero in the Silicon Dreams trilogy (Atari 800) and would kick Samus' butt. (The protagonist in the two first instalments, Kim Kimberley, is a tall, athletic, intelligent woman with brown eyes and fair hair. She was born and raised at Hampstead Crèche, which was closed when she was 13 due to violations of the Android Protection Acts. She finished her education at the Milton Keynes School of Life in Malta, then returned to England for National Service. She started out doing standard security work with the occasional surveillance of subversive members of society, but ended working as a counter-espionage agent. Still in her twenties, Kim accepted to travel undercover on the Snowball 9 to be there as the last resort for the worst-case scenario.) Samus in 1986? Old hat. So it's a computer game, so what, I always include computer games. Thanks for the info. I was focusing on Mario, Zelda and Metroid due to their widespread popularity, and the fact that they came from the same company - wasn't sure if I should expand to include more or contract to focus. Anyway, I really only care about what messages are getting out, so the more widely distributed a game is, the more it matters. That Rapelay game, for example, wasn't sold widely and probably would have been better off left alone rather than "exposed", which probably ran up downloaded torrents of it. Not really worth worrying about if only a tiny amount of people are exposed to it. The whole kill the hooker thing in GTA, on the other hand, plenty of people saw. Was the Silicon dreams trilogy very popular? I don't have much knowledge of gaming in the UK. If it had a distribution comparable in some way to Metroid, I'd like to learn more about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
high voltage #25 Posted June 12, 2010 (edited) Yes, it was rather 'Nintendo', did you even check out/look at other companies like Sega, 3DO, Coleco, Sony (hello Lara Croft), Intellivision...etc? I think not, and there's where your essay fails. Edited June 12, 2010 by high voltage Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites